| tuxd3v | hello all, | 00:33 |
|---|---|---|
| tuxd3v | I chashed my Chimaera desktop, but I manage to recover it, at least to some aceptable state :) | 00:34 |
| tuxd3v | chashed -> crashed | 00:34 |
| tuxd3v | now I am using Mate Desktop | 00:34 |
| tuxd3v | but I don't know why the "Startup Applications", are not starting 'tilda' :( | 00:35 |
| tuxd3v | I mean start in boot.. | 00:37 |
| Xenguy | tuxd3v, It should work, unless it's just a weird tilda glitch. That feature works for me with other programs. | 01:02 |
| Xenguy | MATE seems overall pretty decent | 01:02 |
| Xenguy | Maybe try a test or 2 with other programs? | 01:03 |
| gnarface | can you edit the actual command it calls? | 01:06 |
| gnarface | if so maybe try appending >/dev/null 2>&1 & | 01:07 |
| tuxd3v | yeah, I don't know why, but in the past the command used to be suficient, but I will try that :) | 01:14 |
| tuxd3v | Xenguy, yeah it should, and the "startup applications" appear in the control Panel, and it does start other programs, but not tilda :/ | 01:16 |
| tuxd3v | I think I will reinstall tilda and test again.. | 01:16 |
| tuxd3v | could that in the crash I had something was afected from that program.. | 01:16 |
| Xenguy | tuxd3v, A reboot can never hurt, with that program | 01:42 |
| Xenguy | It's weird that it doesn't behave normally | 01:43 |
| Xenguy | But you know what 'they' say? | 01:43 |
| Xenguy | Something like, 'Normal is Weird', or something fancier | 01:44 |
| tuxd3v | I will try a reboot in the next day or so, I will test again, from xterm is starts nice, coul be something that I removed when I crashed the system.. maybe apt got halfway, and there are still some bits left that are provoking this behavior.. | 01:53 |
| Xenguy | Good luck with the troubleshooting | 01:55 |
| tuxd3v | yeah, many thanks :) | 01:56 |
| pandakekok9 | Hi, can someone help me figure out why my build of iwd is failing? Console output is at https://jenkins.devuan.dev/job/devuan-package-builder/493/console | 10:49 |
| pandakekok9 | Repo is https://git.devuan.org/devuan/iwd | 10:50 |
| pandakekok9 | Ah nevermind, found the reason | 10:50 |
| fsmithred | dpkg-buildpackage: error: syntax error in debian/control at line 16: block lacks the 'Package' field | 11:12 |
| pandakekok9 | fsmithred: Yeah that's what caused it, got a successful build now | 11:12 |
| fsmithred | cool | 11:13 |
| pandakekok9 | 1.12 should be in unstable shortly | 11:13 |
| pandakekok9 | Sorry about the very long delay, my friends. | 11:13 |
| fsmithred | is that a replacement for wpasupplicant? | 11:15 |
| pandakekok9 | fsmithred: Yes | 11:15 |
| pandakekok9 | It's actually amazing nobody complained in the forums about iwd being behind for 3 versions straight | 11:16 |
| pandakekok9 | Maybe I should slack off again and only update when it's now 5 version behind /s | 11:17 |
| unixbsd | how to compile dillo with the openssl, i.e. with -lopenssl ? | 12:51 |
| tarzeau_ | unixbsd: they have some news at https://www.dillo.org about 3.1 upcoming version with https support changes | 13:31 |
| tarzeau_ | you might also want to look at https://www.netsurf-browser.org or links2 -g | 13:32 |
| unixbsd | wow | 13:35 |
| unixbsd | I am impressed of the quality of your answer | 13:35 |
| unixbsd | you touch Terminal as well? fltk, C, ... and low end programming? | 13:36 |
| tarzeau_ | i like C, shell and Objective-C | 13:40 |
| unixbsd | you mean c#? | 13:41 |
| pandakekok9 | c# is windows, while objective-c is apple | 13:46 |
| unixbsd | ah ok, man apple. | 13:53 |
| unixbsd | I never managed to run anything on mac, this brew and all complications to make something to work. beest is to run virtualbox on a mac | 13:53 |
| tarzeau_ | unixbsd: no c# is microsoft, objective-c is same age as c++, was used in next.com commercially, still being used by next.com and gnustep | 13:56 |
| unixbsd | ?to have a little devuan to ramdisk image file? I would like to add "live devuan" to my live image disk | 13:56 |
| tarzeau_ | i'm fine with my m1 mba and brew (and compiling stuff from source) | 13:57 |
| unixbsd | tarzeau_: ah... why do you need a Macintosh? | 13:57 |
| tarzeau_ | the battery holds a day? | 13:57 |
| tarzeau_ | i'm into typography, texts, free software. see github.com/alexmyczko/fnt | 13:57 |
| unixbsd | why not a raspberry? it has solar, and no power electricity, just solar panels. | 13:58 |
| tarzeau_ | because raspberry has the slowest memory: sid.ethz.ch/memtester/ | 13:58 |
| unixbsd | slow.? on devuan and raspios, it runs pretty fast. | 13:58 |
| tarzeau_ | raspberry pi4 is just slow. compared to my arm64 mba :) | 13:58 |
| unixbsd | what is arm64 mba? I tried plan9 on rpi3b, it is super fast. | 13:59 |
| tarzeau_ | it was horrible in my memory, cpu, network, and disk benchmarks | 13:59 |
| tarzeau_ | arm64 is the m1 apple macbook air laptop 13" | 13:59 |
| tarzeau_ | yeah plan9 is nice! | 13:59 |
| unixbsd | why is it so fast? It looks still very good this plan9 actually. it is the oldest remain of the authors of C. | 14:00 |
| tarzeau_ | also tried haikuos ? reactos or riscospi? | 14:00 |
| unixbsd | reactos is no way, it is windows. we need unix and a c compiler | 14:01 |
| tarzeau_ | p9 or my mba? | 14:01 |
| unixbsd | why not BSD? netbsd is pretty os. | 14:01 |
| tarzeau_ | do you remember xbill, the game? | 14:01 |
| unixbsd | xbill it reminds me something --- at age of potatoe or sthg | 14:01 |
| tarzeau_ | i've run netbsd on my sparc: https://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiwm_gallery/ the gurkan one is my screenshot | 14:01 |
| unixbsd | oh, yeah, netbsd is awesome for archi support. it works on all machines. | 14:02 |
| tarzeau_ | 2002, haha | 14:02 |
| unixbsd | this is how it should be | 14:02 |
| tarzeau_ | tried minix? | 14:02 |
| tarzeau_ | i like microkernels, mach (not gnu mach or hurd) | 14:02 |
| unixbsd | yeah yeah minix inspired linus | 14:03 |
| tarzeau_ | or minix, also very nice. hw drivers in userspace, nic driver crashes? you restart it | 14:03 |
| unixbsd | microkernels... there were famous | 14:03 |
| gnarface | guys, take it to #devuan-offtopic | 14:03 |
| tarzeau_ | were? they're still actively used | 14:03 |
| tarzeau_ | xnu is mach | 14:03 |
| unixbsd | what is better with minix? it sucks a bit, it does not run on all architectures. | 14:03 |
| conifer | hi, when I first started my adventure with linux (debian at that time) I read an advice that I should avoid programs using their own makeshift installers and 3rd-party installation systems because they sometimes make a mess, and they undermine the integrity assurance that apt grants me | 17:37 |
| conifer | is this still a valid recommendation today? because I now want to install a program that is distributed through flatpak and snap, or I could go for building from source, which I'm not used to, but I could try | 17:38 |
| bone-baboon | Is Devuan's kernel like Linux-libre? | 17:42 |
| bone-baboon | https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/ | 17:42 |
| bone-baboon | From the Linux-libre website: "Linux, the kernel developed and distributed by Linus Torvalds et al, contains non-Free Software, i.e., software that does not respect your essential freedoms, and it induces you to install additional non-Free Software that it doesn't contain. Even after allegedly moving all firmware to a separate project as of release | 17:43 |
| bone-baboon | 4.14, Linux so-called "sources" published by Mr Torvalds still contain non-Free firmware disguised as source code." | 17:43 |
| fluffywolf | yeah, that wording is so intentionally infammatory that I'm not touching it. lol. | 17:44 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | I find the wording somewhat unhelpful; I'd rather see it telling where, specifically, there are non-free parts in Linux. | 17:47 |
| bone-baboon | I am just using Linux-libre as a comparison point and wanted to be clear about what I am asking. Does Devuan do something similar in terms of beblobbing it's kernel? | 17:51 |
| bone-baboon | iv4nshm4k0v: The Linux-libre project provides tools for what you are asking for: "deblob-check is a script that you can use to test whether a kernel source file, a patch or a tarball, contains any remaining or suspicious firmware blob." and "The removal of non-Free bits from the kernel Linux is accomplished with the script deblob-main". | 17:54 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | bone-baboon: ACK, thanks. I don't think Devuan does anything beyond what Linux maintainers do, though. | 17:57 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Also, I'd like to point out that modern computers typically have more than one /programmable/ processor. I don't see how being ran /not/ on primary CPU makes a program "firmware": a program running on the wi-fi module may contain bugs (including exploitable vulnerabilities) just as well as, say, a browser. | 18:00 |
| bone-baboon | iv4nshm4k0v: I am trying to use hardware that is compatible with open source software for example AR9271 that works with ath9k. | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | I kinda agree with fluffywolf tho | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | I mean I'm all for open source and all | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | really, open source IS a requirement | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | but libre... | 18:06 |
| crashoverride | that's much more related to politics, and so much more prone to attracting trolls | 18:07 |
| bone-baboon | "Debian is the only common non-endorsed distribution to keep nonfree blobs out of its main distribution." https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html | 18:08 |
| crashoverride | so if the kernel contains proprietary binaries, big enough to make an ASM audit practically impossible... | 18:08 |
| crashoverride | then yea, this has a point | 18:08 |
| fluffywolf | regardless of the actual validity of an argument, I dislike anyone who uses wording like that to try to anger people rather than presenting their argument. | 18:08 |
| crashoverride | otherwise... | 18:08 |
| bone-baboon | As Devuan is a fork of Debian would it also have this? | 18:08 |
| crashoverride | bone-baboon: in theory yes | 18:09 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | fluffywolf: AFAIK the Linux-libre project is mainly run by non-native English speakers. I'm willing to tolerate poor wording here. | 18:10 |
| crashoverride | "disguises"seems kinda delibarate... | 18:11 |
| crashoverride | disguised* | 18:11 |
| crashoverride | damn software keyboard | 18:11 |
| fluffywolf | "does not respect your essential freedoms", "induces", "allegedly", "so-called", "'sources'", "disguised".... no, that's not the result of not being a native english speaker. that's the type of writing I expect from fox news, not someone with a valid argument. | 18:12 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Good rhetoric takes time and effort to learn and get right; more so if you need to do that in /two/ languages simultaneously. | 18:13 |
| crashoverride | +1 fluffywolf | 18:13 |
| crashoverride | iv4nshm4k0v: you're part of the people who pretend all the "seemingly dumb" things trump did was part of a "4d chess"? | 18:14 |
| fluffywolf | in many ways, I agree with their fundamental argument - but I don't like them for the way they try to present it. heh. | 18:14 |
| crashoverride | same here, again. | 18:14 |
| fluffywolf | also, I strongly believe that was written by a native english speaker. The choice of "induces", for example, is not something someone with a limited grasp of english would do. | 18:15 |
| bone-baboon | crashoverride: fluffywolf: Maybe they would accept a patch to improve the wording. I think the core concept behind Linux-libre is important. | 18:15 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | I don't care much about Trump; I have some other president to worry about. | 18:15 |
| fluffywolf | that's a very carefully chosen word. | 18:15 |
| crashoverride | iv4nshm4k0v: yeah well, progress, then. | 18:17 |
| bone-baboon | Is there a release of Devuan that is a rolling release? | 18:23 |
| fsmithred | bone-baboon, our release cycle is based on debian's release cycle | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | just like 99.7% of our packages are debian packages, unchanged | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | the closest thing to rolling you can get is to run ceres (unstable) | 18:25 |
| bone-baboon | fsmithred: Would Ceres require a complete reinstall of the system occasionally like the stable releases do? | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | what are you talking about? | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | there are people in the community who have been upgrading their installation for over a decade | 18:27 |
| fsmithred | without reinstall | 18:28 |
| golinux | Just to remind folks that #devuan-offtopic is a good place to discuss non-devuan support discussions | 18:29 |
| golinux | Just scanned the scrollback and most of it was not devuan-specifric | 18:31 |
| fsmithred | or non-support devuan discussions | 18:31 |
| golinux | Gimme a break. Just waking up . . . :D | 18:31 |
| fsmithred | oh, it gets better. lol. | 18:32 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | golinux: Joined; though I think it'd be mighty inconvenient to have discussions tangentially, but still closely, related to Devuan. Like, you know, meandering between on- and off-topic. | 18:33 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | fsmithred: Huh? I don't see "support" being explictly mentioned in TOPIC? | 18:33 |
| Xenguy | iv4nshm4k0v, This is mentioned in the /topic: take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic | 18:34 |
| Xenguy | But yes, this is considered a 'support' channel | 18:35 |
| Xenguy | fsmithred, Speaking of which, /topic needs an update of the beowulf version I think (one way or another) | 18:37 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | Xenguy: I always thought "offtopic" there means "unrelated to Devuan." (As such, for example, any issue affecting the version of Linux included in Devuan /is on-topic./) | 18:37 |
| bone-baboon | fsmithred: Thank you for correcting my false assumption about upgrading a Devuan installation. | 18:43 |
| Xenguy | iv4nshm4k0v, It's a judgement call I suppose. | 18:49 |
| Xenguy | Also, when we are really OT, someone will tend to tell us : -) | 18:49 |
| lts- | Extra space in beginning of topic :-) | 19:10 |
| buZz | there :) | 19:12 |
| Xenguy | buZz, Nicely done | 19:25 |
| hooway | hello | 19:44 |
| hooway | can anyone help me with gnu grub, i have installed devuan with full disk encryption and need to boot, but when i type boot it tells "error: you need to load the kernel first" | 19:46 |
| hooway | what commands do i type? | 19:46 |
| hooway | anyone? | 19:50 |
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