| gnu_srs | leaving freenode, goodbye. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| brocashelm | elogind was automatically installed when i switched to ceres | 00:21 |
| brocashelm | i can't remove it because a ton of essential packages depend on it | 00:22 |
| * lastebil hopes to see an irc location on the website sometime soon, so he can rejoin | 00:42 | |
| * Xenguy prepares to leave for Libera | 00:57 | |
| lastebil | I see we have a preliminary channel there. ok. | 01:02 |
| lastebil | ok. I will wait for the irc announcement, in the meantime, I will be watching libera. | 01:29 |
| _zxq9_ | What is the drama? | 01:39 |
| fluffywolf | _zxq9_: someone purchased the freenode domains and such in a hostile takeover and is now making it their service instead of a community-ran service. | 01:41 |
| MinceR | afaik they didn't purchase them | 01:41 |
| fluffywolf | seems that the previous owner of the domains wasn't immune to being offered large amounts of money. | 01:41 |
| MinceR | owned the network for legal reasons | 01:42 |
| MinceR | and then there was some recent drama which was interpreted as a hostile takeover by both parties | 01:42 |
| fluffywolf | that some individual who has not been part of the community in any way now owns the domains is fairly non-ambiguous. | 01:42 |
| _zxq9_ | Ah. I see. I'm on a few other networks, but freenode is definitely the biggest at the moment. I don't think they realize how easily people can jump ship to OFTC or whatever that alternative one (liberia or whatever?) the ops who are splitting off have in mind. | 01:43 |
| _zxq9_ | Or both at once. | 01:43 |
| MinceR | staff's side of the story: https://libera.chat/ | 01:47 |
| MinceR | rasengan's side of the story: https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e4075d2d48 | 01:47 |
| MinceR | there are also letters of resignation by staff members, not sure where's the best place to start | 01:48 |
| MinceR | here's one: https://www.kline.sh/ | 01:49 |
| Xenguy | /join libera.chat | 01:51 |
| MinceR | don't you mean /connect? :> | 01:51 |
| Xenguy | You'll always be better at IRC than me = ) | 01:51 |
| MinceR | not sure | 01:52 |
| MinceR | once i die, i will become a lot worse at IRC than i am now | 01:52 |
| Xenguy | I cannot disagree | 01:52 |
| Xenguy | Won't be too hot shit myself | 01:52 |
| Xenguy | Sorry for the OT... | 01:52 |
| Xenguy | But reality itself turned OT today it seems... | 01:53 |
| Xenguy | And here we are | 01:53 |
| MinceR | :> | 01:53 |
| Xenguy | And don't worry, I probably won't be here that much longer, so not a long-term problem 8 -D | 01:54 |
| fluffywolf | and here I would have gone with the third option, /server :P | 01:55 |
| MinceR | :> | 01:55 |
| stovepipe | freenode used to be fun before all the #*-social channels and off-topic rules | 01:55 |
| stovepipe | can that go away too? :) | 01:55 |
| fluffywolf | connect is for linking irc servers to each other. linking freenode to liberachat would result in much breakage. :P | 01:55 |
| MinceR | in irssi, connect connects to another ircd without terminating any existing connections | 01:58 |
| MinceR | while /server would terminate the connection to the currently selected server and then connect | 01:58 |
| fluffywolf | so irssi is broken. good to know. :P | 01:58 |
| MinceR | :> | 01:58 |
| MinceR | this is not the part that gets me | 01:58 |
| MinceR | the part that gets me is that there are subcommands, but help isn't one of them | 01:58 |
| MinceR | so i reconnected one of my networks to 'help' when i tried to see how to use /server. | 01:59 |
| tuxd3v | I tried to access today sooner, but it wasn't yet availlable, maybe a DNS propagation problem at the time, but now I can access the page.. | 02:01 |
| _zxq9_ | hah | 02:01 |
| fluffywolf | the connect command, per rfc1459 and every other client on the planet, is used to tell the irc server to connect to another irc server. | 02:02 |
| MinceR | i'll keep that in mind once i get tired of irssi and weechat and create my own client :> | 02:03 |
| tuxd3v | MinceR, you should create your own server :) | 02:04 |
| MinceR | i don't know the server side well enough | 02:04 |
| fluffywolf | looks like irssi uses /sconnect for what the rest of us know as /connect | 02:05 |
| tuxd3v | fluffywolf, maybe secure connect? | 02:05 |
| fluffywolf | server connect | 02:06 |
| fluffywolf | which is just "connect" in other clients, but the irssi people wanted to use connect for their own uses. heh. | 02:06 |
| MinceR | irssi doesn't pass unknown commands through to the server | 02:07 |
| MinceR | iirc mirc does | 02:07 |
| fluffywolf | that has nothing to do with this. lol | 02:07 |
| MinceR | it sort of does | 02:07 |
| MinceR | because if there is such a passthrough, all commands become part of the same namespace | 02:07 |
| MinceR | but if there isn't, what you're interacting with are client commands | 02:08 |
| tuxd3v | can't you use: /CONNECT ? | 02:08 |
| fluffywolf | "connect" is the irc protocol command used to tell an irc server to link to another irc server. other clients use /connect to send this connect command. irssi uses /connect for its own internal purposes, and uses /sconnect to send a connect command. | 02:08 |
| rwp | fluffywolf, irssi is broken? Then what am I using to type this? :-) | 02:08 |
| tuxd3v | ho, now I got it :) | 02:09 |
| tuxd3v | last time I connected via irssi was some 6 months ago..can't remember.. | 02:09 |
| fluffywolf | so if you tell people to use /connect to get to a new server, every client that's not irssi will try asking the irc server itself to connect to that server, resulting in people being told they're not an oper. :) | 02:10 |
| fluffywolf | (and if any opers try that, they'll probably get told there's no matching c/n lines, or whatever config options there are on other ircds for such things) | 02:11 |
| MinceR | it's probably not the same between other clients either | 02:11 |
| MinceR | weechat uses /connect as well | 02:12 |
| MinceR | https://weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_quickstart.en.html#connect_to_irc_server | 02:12 |
| MinceR | i can't remember how [he]xchat did it | 02:14 |
| MinceR | kvirc uses the -n parameter to /server to indicate that a new connection is desired | 02:16 |
| tuxd3v | but.. the thing is... does any body understood already the hostage situation? | 02:18 |
| tuxd3v | and who is the offender, and who is the hostage here.. | 02:18 |
| * tuxd3v is confuse | 02:18 | |
| tuxd3v | this situation seems ...a gangster thing.. | 02:20 |
| MinceR | we have the word of one man against the word of a few people | 02:21 |
| MinceR | (who might have taken each other on their word) | 02:21 |
| MinceR | i don't see how i could find out who's telling the truth | 02:21 |
| tuxd3v | you mean the word of "realrasengan" ? | 02:21 |
| tuxd3v | on github | 02:22 |
| MinceR | yes | 02:22 |
| _zxq9_ | tuxd3v: Most of this is overreaction (emotional), which will drive actual movement (activity), which will reinforce the emotion. Communities are built on mutual faith, and it is very easy to undermine that. | 02:22 |
| MinceR | indeed, most of this is most likely overreaction | 02:22 |
| MinceR | but what the hell, we'll get more competition out of it in the irc network market, which is nice :> | 02:22 |
| _zxq9_ | Anyway, they exhibit robust behavior in that they tend to flow like water to rest elsewhere. People aren't going to stop talking about Devuan on IRC, for example -- they'll just be doing it on irc.oftc.net or whatever in addition to here. | 02:23 |
| fluffywolf | the fact that a single, un-elected individual has control over the network is a failure itself. | 02:23 |
| _zxq9_ | Or if the libera thing takes off (and sets up a back end that can help prevent spam). Or whatever. | 02:23 |
| MinceR | and unlike moves to discord, i can even follow any project that moves without having to run software i don't want :> | 02:23 |
| _zxq9_ | fluffywolf: I would say this is true with the exception of having a BDFL that sets something up to start with. | 02:24 |
| _zxq9_ | I've seen communities ruined by committee more times than I can remember. | 02:24 |
| jelly | fwiw, the "unofficial official" #debian and #debian-offtopic channels present on freenode are going to appear on libera.chat as well | 02:24 |
| tuxd3v | but "realrasengan" says that he wants everything to settle down, and everybody kissing and hugging each other, and offering lollipop's to each other.. | 02:24 |
| fluffywolf | this is a not a new community with a founder. heh. | 02:24 |
| _zxq9_ | fluffywolf: Right. | 02:25 |
| tuxd3v | he says he wants freenode to be successfull.. | 02:25 |
| fluffywolf | we had lilo for that, and I still miss him. | 02:25 |
| fluffywolf | this is someone with literally no involvement in the community whatsoever somehow gaining control over the domains and legal name, apparently through greasing the right palms. he literally claims he spent millions. | 02:26 |
| _zxq9_ | tuxd3v: I imagine that there is actually some protective instinct driving some of this -- but it is almost impossible to enforce protection of a voluntary system. "Control" is an illusion, doubly so in voluntary systems. | 02:26 |
| _zxq9_ | It is also just as impossible to protect a community from itself as to protect an individual from themself. | 02:26 |
| tuxd3v | _zxq9_, I agree with you and MinceR about what you said.. | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | but why are people resigning.. | 02:27 |
| MinceR | in their perception, the network was subjected to hostile takeover by a corporation | 02:27 |
| MinceR | whether this is true, i do not know | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | 3. Tomaw's team attacks christel, who had run Freenode since early | 02:27 |
| tuxd3v | 2000, and she resigns, unable to deal with the persistent harassment. | 02:27 |
| MinceR | and i don't care all that much | 02:27 |
| _zxq9_ | Because most have probably wanted to do things slightly differently for a long time, but were tied to this system because it was the largest and wanted to help out. Remember, most of us get paid in ego points for doing FOSS and community work. Now is a good chance to do something new in a way they hope might be better. That *plus* some overreaction due to the manner of the transition. | 02:28 |
| jelly | tuxd3v, all the current staff have resigned, except two needed to manage the handover | 02:28 |
| _zxq9_ | And also... never underestimate the motivating power of drama and stirring up more drama. | 02:28 |
| tuxd3v | _zxq9_, so they are all against "realrasengan" | 02:29 |
| fluffywolf | I had a freenode staffer as an op on one of my channels... she tells me it's as bad as everyone says, and we should move. I trust her, or I wouldn't have made her an op. heh. | 02:29 |
| tuxd3v | ? | 02:29 |
| _zxq9_ | Anyway, things like this always eventually happen. Even Guido eventually gave up on trying to protect Python from the ravages of the Good Idea Fairy. | 02:30 |
| _zxq9_ | I've been watching this happen since I first got into open communities in 1990. | 02:30 |
| fluffywolf | python needs to be ravaged by the stop-fucking-changing-major-things-with-minor-version-bumps fairy. :P | 02:30 |
| _zxq9_ | hah | 02:30 |
| _zxq9_ | 2.7 was the last real Python. | 02:31 |
| _zxq9_ | 3.x should be renamed Flying Circus 1.0 | 02:31 |
| fluffywolf | lol | 02:31 |
| brocashelm | you will install python 3.x and you will be happy | 02:32 |
| _zxq9_ | MUST. RESIST. MIND. VIRUS. | 02:32 |
| tuxd3v | but... _zxq9_ its all very dificult to understand.. "realrasengan" seems to want freenode to strive.. is he the real gangster or are all the other guys, in overdrive mode? | 02:32 |
| _zxq9_ | tuxd3v: The truth is somewhere in the middle of it. | 02:32 |
| brocashelm | gnome 40 will consume most of your resources and you will be happy | 02:33 |
| MinceR | i don't see why people are tied to an irc network just because it's the largest | 02:33 |
| _zxq9_ | Of course if you take over anything then you want it to thrive. If you use hostile means to take it over, though, you are likely to damage it -- and if it is a faith based system, *of course* this is true. | 02:33 |
| _zxq9_ | So... bleh. It doesn't matter. People can only find faith with one another through interaction, not by policy. | 02:33 |
| _zxq9_ | So that's what will happen. Probably some here, and a lot elsewhere as well. | 02:34 |
| _zxq9_ | 99% of IRC users don't care about the admin drama. | 02:34 |
| MinceR | > if you take over anything then you want it to thrive. | 02:34 |
| brocashelm | you will put systemd, networkmanager, pulseaudio, wayland, and other red hat garbage in your gnu/linux system and you will be happy | 02:34 |
| MinceR | not so sure about that | 02:34 |
| adhoc | morning all | 02:34 |
| MinceR | when redhat took over most Linux distributions, they just wanted the competition to either go away or became their thralls | 02:35 |
| tuxd3v | but for what I understand he refused to take Actions against.. he refused to take control, in his version "Tomaw's team" are the one trying to take control | 02:35 |
| _zxq9_ | MinceR: Well, you could certainly just want to kill it off -- and pretending one while intending the other is a possible play, but generally only makes sense if the person doing it already has an alternative that is both available and *obvious* they want people to escape to. | 02:35 |
| tuxd3v | nit him | 02:35 |
| _zxq9_ | Sort of "scaring the rabbits into the bag" instead of trying to chase them. | 02:35 |
| MinceR | when microsoft & co. took over Linux, they didn't want Linux to thrive, they're mostly fine with killing it off | 02:35 |
| tuxd3v | he is against it.. | 02:35 |
| MinceR | when microsoft took over the mobile division of nokia, they were probably mostly just afraid of Maemo/MeeGo | 02:36 |
| MinceR | and they managed to kill off phones that were built to run it | 02:36 |
| _zxq9_ | MinceR: Right. There are strategies of denial that function this way -- but they tend to come from a really dead obvious player. | 02:36 |
| _zxq9_ | Like if Slack took over freenode -- that would be quite different. | 02:36 |
| _zxq9_ | There is a special situation with the FOSS world, though, where we are incapable of negotiating in a normal way. Without a mutual capacity for violence, you cannot negotiate. You can agree to do stuff together out of inherent interest and try to build trust through interaction, or not. But there are no "we both need A and want B, and both pose unbalanced and sudden risk X -- so it is in our interest to negotiate it". | 02:38 |
| tuxd3v | for what I understand, "realrasengan" seems to be the only one trying to protect Christel.. what a mess | 02:38 |
| _zxq9_ | The thing with this is that these systems of community trust are inherently fragile if they are not built around a BDFL everyone trusts. | 02:38 |
| _zxq9_ | Trusting "the community" is not a thing. | 02:38 |
| MinceR | even a BDFL isn't a guarantee for anything | 02:39 |
| MinceR | after all, microsoft managed to buy Guido van Rossum's soul | 02:39 |
| _zxq9_ | Of course. But a BDFL is a *very* fast point of evaluation. | 02:39 |
| _zxq9_ | A community is not. | 02:39 |
| tuxd3v | I suspect the problem is when you have someone in the cummunity that is undermining it from the inside.. which seems to be the case here.. | 02:39 |
| _zxq9_ | This drama is going to play on for a while, for example. A BDFL doing something untoward has an immediate consequence or it doesn't. | 02:39 |
| _zxq9_ | tuxd3v: That's rampant lately. People coming with all kinds of angles on that for quite a while, actually. Since around 2014 when the CoC fad started. | 02:40 |
| _zxq9_ | Nearly all were only social weapons. | 02:40 |
| _zxq9_ | We lack the mutual capacity for violence, and are not physically in proximity -- so innuendo and character assassination are the tools of the corruptors. | 02:40 |
| MinceR | the suits finally found a way to kill off free software | 02:41 |
| _zxq9_ | Basically. | 02:41 |
| _zxq9_ | Shove a CoC where it isn't wanted and watch the FOSSers squeal. It is really easy to do and make it look like "social justice" also -- that is, corporations actively fund these efforts and call themselves the good guys for it. | 02:41 |
| _zxq9_ | It's quite brilliant. | 02:41 |
| _zxq9_ | Then the FOSS participants, genuinely trying to do good and be seen as good, infight about it. | 02:42 |
| tuxd3v | the problem is that not everyone has a nuclear button, and so some can subdue the others | 02:42 |
| _zxq9_ | Meh. I just break off and write my own tooling. | 02:42 |
| tuxd3v | if all had a nuclear button, maybe people will start to respect more eachother , because what you throw around will come around.. | 02:43 |
| fluffywolf | back to a previous topic, reading the weechat commands, I don't actually see one for sending a connect command. but it does have die and other oper commands. it could be it's just not used by opers. :P | 02:43 |
| _zxq9_ | Someone in another channel has the sense that this is due to Orange Man Bad retardation. That is, the entire stink popped up because someone on the acquiring end is a Trump supporter (or is at least being framed that way to score tactical points in the current spat). | 02:44 |
| _zxq9_ | Which is exactly the kind of nonsense that is easy to leverage to poison a community. | 02:44 |
| _zxq9_ | If that's really the truth of it and this is a Trump Derangement Syndrome moment then, bleh, it'll blow over in a few days and nobody will care. | 02:45 |
| _zxq9_ | I suspect freenode isn't actually going anywhere. | 02:45 |
| tuxd3v | _zxq9_, in a free society every person has the right to support what they want | 02:46 |
| _zxq9_ | Sure. | 02:46 |
| tuxd3v | the others also have its opinions, but need to respect that | 02:46 |
| Beer | tbh, I'm afraid IRC as a whole is not going anywhere. Libera will have a surge of hype/activity in the coming days. What's interesting is what will continue to happen in months... | 02:47 |
| _zxq9_ | The real pandemic is a mass contamination of disrespect lately. | 02:47 |
| Beer | People prefer consuming centralised services these days. Discord and all those "free" services/mobile applications out there? They fall for it. | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | Libera is supported by Tomaw's team? | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | its what it seems.. | 02:48 |
| tuxd3v | I wanted to know whats really going on, because this is very dark.. | 02:49 |
| tuxd3v | 3. Tomaw's team attacks christel | 02:50 |
| tuxd3v | Can any one have Christel words? | 02:50 |
| tuxd3v | that would help :) | 02:50 |
| MinceR | indeed | 02:51 |
| Xenguy | tuxd3v, Have not read upbuffer (noticed how busy IRC's been tonight?) but this is a crucial point... | 02:51 |
| Xenguy | AL is advancing the notion that Chrystal was attacked... | 02:51 |
| _zxq9_ | Beer: Indeed. Usability is the uber feature. We could learn a bit from that, to be fair. | 02:51 |
| Xenguy | The staff oppose that version of reality | 02:51 |
| tuxd3v | Tomaw's crew abruptly cuts christel's access while she is asleep that night. | 02:52 |
| brocashelm | _zxq9_: agreed, he's not even in office anymore, people should get over themselves | 02:52 |
| tuxd3v | Xenguy, many thanks | 02:52 |
| Xenguy | Beer, Discord is proprietary; that should be all there is to it, 'next!' | 02:52 |
| tuxd3v | So they harassed her.. | 02:52 |
| Beer | Xenguy: Oh I'm right on board with you. I decribed people as in "the general public". Merely stating facts here, alebit you could sense the pain in my words... | 02:53 |
| Xenguy | It is painful, for many of us, what is happening here and now | 02:54 |
| brocashelm | i almost thought you said beer (the actual beverage) is proprietary and was going to follow up with "so rms is straight edge?" | 02:54 |
| _zxq9_ | There isn't enough popcorn to get us through 2021. | 02:54 |
| Xenguy | brocashelm, hah | 02:54 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: IRC is super usable, on top of being decentralised, lightweight, extensible, standardized, open... It's not "kikoolol", though. | 02:54 |
| _zxq9_ | Beer: "super usable" is a relative term. | 02:55 |
| Xenguy | _zxq9_, I recommend the Red Dragon, if it's available in your country | 02:55 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: As all adjectives are | 02:55 |
| brocashelm | irc is way better than shit like xmpp IMO | 02:55 |
| Xenguy | We should not be discussing a change of protocol at this crisis point... | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | That's just a distraction that widens the problem area | 02:56 |
| Xenguy | Focus on the clean IRC migration, then take stock I say | 02:56 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: All the pale copies you can think of tried to "do better" than IRC. Cramming features which "look cool" together with a basis not ensuring liberties & privacy is a dead-end. | 02:56 |
| Beer | It all starts with design. | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, the scaffolding | 02:57 |
| brocashelm | 2021 is just 2020 remastered (clown world) | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | Yay | 02:57 |
| _zxq9_ | IRC is indeed a better protocol than XMPP -- I'm an Erlanger, you really have no idea the nightmare that lies within when you really dig in... ugh. | 02:57 |
| _zxq9_ | But... | 02:57 |
| Xenguy | We cloned a year | 02:57 |
| Beer | This decade is def. starting on the wrong foot to be better than the last one. I was thinking exactly about that sooner :D | 02:58 |
| _zxq9_ | And this is not IRC vs XMPP, per se... there *is* value in providing multimedia capability as well as image and source pastes. | 02:58 |
| Xenguy | Beer, The 21st century disappointed almost immediately | 02:58 |
| _zxq9_ | We achieve a similar thing here with links, which works pretty well, but having those all in a single interface with whiteboard, co-editing, and VOIP is nice. | 02:58 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: Hhmm? And where would you host that? | 02:58 |
| Beer | HTML chats always have been a toy for kids who knew better | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | _zxq9_, Most IRC people are happy to not include all those extras | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | It's a kind of aesthetic | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | Minimal vs. Rich ? | 02:59 |
| Xenguy | Two different crowds I think | 02:59 |
| brocashelm | bloat | 02:59 |
| brocashelm | not needed | 02:59 |
| brocashelm | anything you want to share can be linked | 03:00 |
| _zxq9_ | Beer: I'm actually working on a thing with some other Erlanger friends, but it is a native client with a server side anyone can run, and they connect together. Channels are server-side similar to here, but the richer communication rooms are hosted in the client (they peer for them temporarily) and ephemeral. | 03:00 |
| brocashelm | and there's file transfer if you're stuck in the medieval era | 03:00 |
| Beer | Beyong that: where are things *hosted*. Aesthetic is a lost debate, as it's all subjective. Where things are hosted, who is controlling/owning the data, those are objective questions about a proper design. | 03:00 |
| _zxq9_ | The central node that lets everyone find everyone else is hosted by me whenever we're working on it. | 03:00 |
| onefang | That's all we need, Yet Another Messaging Protocol. | 03:01 |
| _zxq9_ | Xenguy: Indeed. The aesthetic is important to IRC and I actually like it. Very low distraction, and also easier to keep up with a fast conversation. | 03:01 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: Any central node is suspect. If you try to build a federation, you try to avoid those, as they becoming controlling nodes which would be the target of hostiles | 03:01 |
| Beer | they risk becoming* | 03:02 |
| _zxq9_ | Beer: I don't care about that for this particular project. | 03:02 |
| _zxq9_ | But you *do* have to have some way for things to find other things. | 03:02 |
| Beer | "I don't care". Precisely the reason behind why all those centralised services are popular | 03:02 |
| _zxq9_ | Someone has to own a central node, own the name in a blockchain registry, or own the DNS name, etc. | 03:02 |
| Beer | Those 4 little words, in that order, make me feel sicker each and every day passing | 03:03 |
| _zxq9_ | You have to have something be able to find another thing at the outset. It's just how it goes. | 03:03 |
| _zxq9_ | Yeah, it would be super cool if we could just send "the network" a request and it could magically find that first node -- but every single peered system in the universe has the "initial reference problem" and has to solve it in some way. | 03:03 |
| Beer | _zxq9_: I withdraw from this talk. Sry. This Freenode event is just making me feel deeply sick to the furthest depths of my stomach. | 03:04 |
| Beer | Being on the edge here. | 03:04 |
| _zxq9_ | Even pure peer systems have to solve it by keeping a set of seed nodes alive, and those are essentially a SPOF. After that first lookup, you're fine, but you do have to perform a lookup. | 03:04 |
| tuxd3v | torrents protocol? | 03:04 |
| Beer | I could go aggressive at any time now. | 03:04 |
| tuxd3v | p2p? | 03:04 |
| _zxq9_ | tuxd3v: Yes, they have seed nodes to start, and magnet on top. | 03:04 |
| _zxq9_ | Even freenet works this way. | 03:04 |
| tuxd3v | yeah indeed | 03:04 |
| _zxq9_ | Again, once you get that initial hole punch to another peer that isn't on the seed list, you're really plugged in. But you have to start somewhere better than UDP spamming the entire public IPv6 space for open ports. | 03:05 |
| _zxq9_ | At some point you have to say "OK, I'm not going to start my own ISP just to reduce external dependence". | 03:05 |
| _zxq9_ | This particular area is what I deal with professionally, actually. Larry Sanger (the Wikipedia/Wikimedia one) solicited input on decentralized network designs a while back and I explained a bit about how to actually achieve a decentralized applications platform (as opposed to peered chat or distributed storage). https://larrysanger.org/community/main-forum/the-orange-pill-storage-system-a-point-by-point-and-exhaustively-detailed-answer-to- | 03:09 |
| _zxq9_ | what-decentralization-requires/ | 03:09 |
| _zxq9_ | hah. Broke the link. | 03:09 |
| _zxq9_ | https://larrysanger.org/community/main-forum/the-orange-pill-storage-system-a-point-by-point-and-exhaustively-detailed-answer-to-what-decentralization-requires/ | 03:09 |
| Beer | A note of caution, if you haven't yet: drop you account on Freenode, you never know when the user DB will start being used by the adversaries, if it hasn't yet | 03:10 |
| Beer | Keep a copy the registration date to gloat about it ofc (: | 03:10 |
| _zxq9_ | haha! Indeed. | 03:11 |
| fluffywolf | User reg. : May 30 16:15:29 2005 (15y 51w 1d ago) heh | 03:12 |
| Beer | 'grats! 1st account or have you lost an even older one? Or maybe started using IRC w/o an account? | 03:14 |
| fluffywolf | I had another nick, but it dropped a long time ago. | 03:15 |
| onefang | Remind me again what user data Freenode accounts have? Unique email address, unique password, my user name. What else? | 03:15 |
| fluffywolf | mine doesn't have an email address, and the username and password won't do anyone any good, so I don't care if they have it. | 03:16 |
| Beer | I guess that's about it? Check /ns info | 03:16 |
| rwp | fluffywolf, For me: Registered : Sep 06 21:22:54 2007 (13y 36w 6d ago) I don't recall what I did before then. (shrug) | 03:16 |
| fluffywolf | I started using IRC before freenode existed. heh. | 03:16 |
| fluffywolf | the oldest channel I've had on here I've had for 15y 46w 5d, but someone else took it on the libera.chat network and wants to keep it. which is a major problem with this migration thing. | 03:17 |
| onefang | Oh and the IP address of the other end of my VPN. Which is public knowledge amongst Devuan users, it's also my Devuan package repo and mirror checker. Gets quoted here all the time. | 03:17 |
| Beer | I have been told data is erased on DROP. Mere reported words, though. | 03:18 |
| tuxd3v | Guys read this: https://kline.sh/ | 03:18 |
| MinceR | i've read it already | 03:18 |
| rwp | Not sure what trouble can be caused by access to the old database information though. What's the troubling scenarios? | 03:19 |
| fluffywolf | erased is very relative, when it comes to database compacting, backups, etc. | 03:19 |
| MinceR | password sharing, i guess | 03:19 |
| MinceR | leaking of email addresses | 03:19 |
| tuxd3v | "Mr Lee has sought to assert total legal control over the network, including user data." | 03:19 |
| Beer | There are a couple crossed-referenced resources. Some are not. I initially read https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409 | 03:19 |
| tuxd3v | what??userdata is exactly that,,, USER DATA OWNED by the user only | 03:19 |
| Beer | fluffywolf: Yeah I immediately thought about backups... | 03:19 |
| rwp | My email address is well known for a long time. So nothing new there. My passwords are all randomly generated and unique per site. For FN I use certificates for authentication. | 03:20 |
| fluffywolf | I have no idea if there's an official procedure for restoring ## channels to their original freenode owners, or if I'm just stuck losing my baby of 15 years. | 03:20 |
| onefang | Just checked, even my real name is "onefang". | 03:20 |
| Beer | tuxd3v: Even the sell has shady basis. The key point is that legal battle means... battle, hence money. He's on the strong side on that point. | 03:20 |
| Beer | fluffywolf: People seem to be raiding channels as of now. It's a storm in #libera, and one of the ops talked about a backlog of 150 channels requests a quarter ago. | 03:22 |
| fluffywolf | it was one of my ops. heh. | 03:23 |
| Beer | amdj? | 03:23 |
| Beer | I also came on Libera < 3h too late to secure "Beer" :( | 03:24 |
| tuxd3v | So resuming,,, Christel sold 'freenode ltd' to Andrew Lee, in a shady deal.. | 03:25 |
| Beer | Sold the domain names IIRC | 03:27 |
| tuxd3v | Now.. seems that I start to to understand why Tomaw's team attacked christel, and drop her access.. | 03:27 |
| Beer | Sold something which was not truly hers anyway, that's the key. | 03:27 |
| Beer | tuxd3v: The allegations about the reason of her departure are disputed | 03:28 |
| Beer | reasons* | 03:28 |
| tuxd3v | So she sold our own data included, for what it means... that is not legal, I mean at least not in Europe.. | 03:28 |
| tuxd3v | they cannot sell my data without my consent.. | 03:28 |
| Beer | But that sale you mentioned is the sarting point. Litigation over that could only lead to an attrition war | 03:28 |
| _zxq9_ | Lawyers are going to be happy. Nobody else probably will be, but at least lawyers can be. | 03:29 |
| Beer | The sale is invalid when what you sale is not yours... but the problem is that there was no other identified owner of the services | 03:29 |
| _zxq9_ | Every cloud has a... hidden bomber squadron behind it. | 03:29 |
| Beer | THe problem is: to make that recognised, you'll need to fight in court. Money. Attrition. | 03:29 |
| Beer | If Freenode was belonging to an official structure, say non-profit, it would have been secured. | 03:30 |
| Beer | The fact that historically, that freedom was not secured fired back spectatularly with a single bad decision from a single person. | 03:31 |
| Beer | Freenode dates back from decades in which belonging to a structure, even non-profit, was seen as dangerous. | 03:31 |
| Beer | Governance is key | 03:32 |
| tuxd3v | ho ...man.. | 03:32 |
| tuxd3v | Some time ago, Christel, the former head of freenode staff sold `freenode ltd` (a holding company) to a third party, Andrew Lee[1], under terms that were not disclosed to the staff body. | 03:32 |
| tuxd3v | How can she seels something if it was not hers? | 03:33 |
| Beer | Yeah, OK so it was the whole company, not just the domains. 2017 or 2018 IIRC | 03:33 |
| Beer | tuxd3v: That's the point. WHich needs to be fought. In court. Money Attrition. Give up. | 03:33 |
| tuxd3v | Maybe freenode ltd was indeed her own? | 03:33 |
| Beer | This bloated ego muppet has money, and is determined to use it to ensure his seat of power | 03:34 |
| tuxd3v | And shee hiden this dhady deal from Tomaw's team.. | 03:35 |
| Beer | THe assets running Freenode were donations never bound by any contract with that structure. Staff were working on their free time, w/o contract either. Freenod Ltd was an empty shell... except for the domain names | 03:35 |
| tuxd3v | as a boomerang efect they harassed her to the point she left.. | 03:35 |
| Beer | The problem is control over the domains and operating control over the machines | 03:35 |
| Beer | tuxd3v: This is alleged by this Andrew. The staff collegially refutes that | 03:36 |
| tuxd3v | who is this guy 'Andrew Lee' ? | 03:36 |
| Beer | Please present it like that w/o knowing more about it | 03:36 |
| Beer | Please *do not* present it liek that | 03:36 |
| tuxd3v | it seems that he already was pouring millions into freenode for years.. | 03:37 |
| Beer | OK I'm tired. Withdrawing now | 03:37 |
| Beer | tuxd3v: Again, that's his side of the story. Please read thoroughly. No-one knows more than all which is written. Read *both* sides of the story | 03:37 |
| * Beer vanish in a whirlwind | 03:37 | |
| tuxd3v | Beer, Many thanks for your words, I didn't knew it was disputed the fact that they harassed her.. | 03:38 |
| * Beer also, vanishes | 03:38 | |
| * tuxd3v don't vanish in the wind storm :) | 03:38 | |
| Beer | There are resignations letters, many lgos from talks in public channels, private talks, etc. | 03:38 |
| fluffywolf | I'm not familiar with the backstory... I just know that a freenode staffer I trust says it's fucked and time to move. | 03:39 |
| onefang | https://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.com/2021/05/19/freenode_staff_resigns/ might help | 03:40 |
| tuxd3v | onefang, many thanks | 03:43 |
| tuxd3v | I already know.. its the South Korean Crown Prince Andrew Lee that brought it.. | 03:48 |
| adhoc | onefang: interesting read. | 03:52 |
| tuxd3v | adhoc, indeed :) | 03:52 |
| adhoc | "Having said that, the Ubuntu IRC Council has voted to migrate away from Freenode." | 03:53 |
| adhoc | they have a lot more to lose, they have a lot of green users incoming, they certainly don't want to be having the politics of freenode power plays to colour their interactions. | 03:53 |
| adhoc | balancing risk... | 03:54 |
| golinux | "the Ubuntu IRC Council" . . . that is so 'buntardish | 03:54 |
| _zxq9_ | Risk is an interesting idea in open communities. | 03:55 |
| golinux | And all this is really offtopic for this channel . . . | 03:55 |
| _zxq9_ | Make something successful in the bazaar, commercialize it in some way, then recognize that the instability of the bazaar is the main threat to your image of stability, move away from the bazaar. | 03:55 |
| _zxq9_ | golinux: True. Discussions of faith are tangentially related (systemd being foisted on communities vs alterantives), but yeah, all the drama stuff should really be in #drama. | 03:56 |
| _zxq9_ | Which evidently I just started. | 03:56 |
| fluffywolf | if the channel is dead, is anything on-topic? :) | 03:56 |
| _zxq9_ | bingo | 03:57 |
| golinux | And that is OT for this SUPPORT channel. Please take it to #devuan-offtopic | 03:57 |
| _zxq9_ | But this is a point nobody cares to discuss. JUST WIELD THE BANHAMMER AND FEEL LIKE A BIG MAN! | 03:57 |
| Xenguy | Everything is now #ontopic | 03:57 |
| _zxq9_ | haha | 03:57 |
| _zxq9_ | Which I apparently just created also. | 03:57 |
| golinux | fluffywolf: That's because you're not a dev reading the scrollback. | 03:57 |
| Xenguy | I lied, and now I'm being a pest | 03:57 |
| _zxq9_ | jeebus... all these new channels on the dying network | 03:57 |
| Xenguy | My apologies : -) | 03:58 |
| onefang | Think we had gotten around to just rehashing everything all over again anyway. | 04:00 |
| stovepipe | i wish the social/off-topic chan idea would die with freenode | 04:01 |
| stovepipe | it made IRC miserable for over a decade | 04:01 |
| _zxq9_ | On super active channels it makes sense. But people want IRC to be persistent data now, not ephemeral chat -- and that changes things a bit. | 04:02 |
| stovepipe | removing the humanity from tech chats, not the best idea | 04:02 |
| onefang | Off topic chats in this support channel makes it hard for the people trying to actually do Devuan support to find the actual questions they can answer when it is buried in hundreds of off topic posts. | 04:03 |
| golinux | A perfect discussion for #devuan-offtopic | 04:03 |
| stovepipe | IRC can have 50 conversations happening simultaenously, thats why we address people directly that we're talking to during busy times | 04:03 |
| stovepipe | no one has to read every line | 04:03 |
| golinux | These folks who know little about Devuan always have ideas that are irrelevant | 04:04 |
| stovepipe | what folks are those | 04:04 |
| golinux | and stupid | 04:04 |
| golinux | folks like you | 04:04 |
| _zxq9_ | The real solution, or result anyway, is that most of us will just leave entirely. Poof! Just like it's been since the 1990's. | 04:04 |
| onefang | And when a newbie comes here and doesn't know which of us can answer their question? | 04:04 |
| stovepipe | lolwat | 04:04 |
| stovepipe | know little about devuan? | 04:04 |
| _zxq9_ | Calling your users "stupid" is always a big win. | 04:04 |
| stovepipe | holy moly see waht i mean | 04:05 |
| golinux | Humans a re stupid. | 04:05 |
| stovepipe | this lashing out over off-topic chats has made little hitlers o ut of peopel | 04:05 |
| stovepipe | doesnt even know ive been here since the beginning | 04:05 |
| stovepipe | but when the humanity has been sucked out of tech chats, why participate unless its necessary? | 04:05 |
| golinux | So have I and I kknow nothing about you. | 04:05 |
| stovepipe | its not necessary | 04:05 |
| stovepipe | you dont need to know anything about me | 04:06 |
| golinux | Maybe dead weight? | 04:06 |
| stovepipe | but i appreciate the insults | 04:06 |
| _zxq9_ | The real channel we all need: #ontopic1488 | 04:06 |
| golinux | Dunno . . . | 04:06 |
| onefang | I now know enough to ignore stovepipe. lol | 04:06 |
| stovepipe | uh huh | 04:06 |
| stovepipe | tyranny feels good doesnt it | 04:06 |
| tuxd3v | golinux, you are right, this is a support channel :) | 04:07 |
| Xenguy | It should be spelt Tearanny | 04:11 |
| MinceR | lol | 04:12 |
| MinceR | rip and tearanny? | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | There was this guy Rip Torn | 04:12 |
| MinceR | https://www.doomworld.com/10years/doomcomic/ | 04:13 |
| fluffywolf | well, reading that spam sure makes me dislike that asshole. | 05:09 |
| golinux | He is thief and a liar | 05:10 |
| golinux | "a" goes in the empty space | 05:11 |
| * redrick gives golinux an 'a'. | 05:50 | |
| golinux | redrick: :) | 05:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy >>Since 2013, I have been a major sponsor of freenode providing servers and funding through one of my companies. I have no intention to stop this in the future. The rumors of a 'hostile takeover' are simply untrue - I've been the guardian and owner of freenode since 2017, when Christel, the former owner approached me and asked if I was interested in purchasing it, as we had in previous years discussed this.<< | 06:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just to let you know for that meeting later on, as factoid: libera is pretty much completely set up to take over seamlessly from freenode devuan namespace | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if any channels are missing, please let me know *without joining them* or just leave again and then let me know so the channel can get properly assigned to the namespace | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | quick reference: https://libera.chat/ | 06:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some trivia: while here there are a 7 +o netops in #freenode, incl rasengan and chanserv bot, all the netops moved over to libera and teher are a 26+ +o netops in #libera the equivalent to #freenode here | 06:15 |
| golinux | So libera will be running on your servers? Did I read that correctly? | 06:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry? I got nothing to do at all with libera, it's run by the staff that made freenode happen and run | 06:16 |
| golinux | If that is true, we are in good hands . . . | 06:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 06:16 |
| tuxd3v | DocScrutinizer05, what about Privacy Polecies related with user data? | 06:17 |
| tuxd3v | policies* | 06:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tuxd3v: hm? please elaborate | 06:18 |
| tuxd3v | how will the users data, be managed and controlled? | 06:19 |
| redrick | DocScrutinizer05: I will aim to address golinux's concerns on #devuan-offtopic. | 06:19 |
| tuxd3v | redrick, many thanks for remembering us of that :) | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tuxd3v: same way it been managed and controlled on freenode | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no, libera doesn't have your user data, you need to create a new account, preferrably with your same nick but different password | 06:22 |
| tuxd3v | DocScrutinizer05, we are continuing in #devuan-offofpic | 06:22 |
| tuxd3v | thanks for the heads up | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 06:22 |
| tuxd3v | #devuan-offtopic* | 06:23 |
| tuxd3v | :) | 06:23 |
| onefang | Right now sledjhamr.org might not be resolving while I switch nameservers. | 07:06 |
| onefang | sledjhamr.org should be resolving correctly now. Though some systems might be slow updating, like one of the four around the world I was testing with. (One of the Devuan package repos, and the apt mirror checker.) | 08:26 |
| crashoverride | ok, I'm moving over to OFTC | 09:30 |
| DPA | FYI: Ubuntu already decided that they'll be on libera: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001922.html | 09:35 |
| ham5urg | Does anyone know a imap-email-client with a reasonable search engine? I tried Thunderbird, SeaMonkey-Mail, Evolution, not one mail client which is searching correctly. Is this coincidence? | 11:50 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | claws-mail | 11:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and btw searching is done server side | 11:51 |
| CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | with apache lucene | 11:51 |
| gnarface | what's wrong with thunderbird's search other than it being slow? | 11:54 |
| gnarface | i didn't see anything actually wrong with it | 11:55 |
| gnarface | seemed to be more of an issue with how large directories are handled (not at all) | 11:55 |
| ham5urg | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED, claws-mail is fast. But the behaviour is odd to me. When I search, it is done. But the results do not show up. I have to click every directory to look for. E.g. if it is in INBOX, I find the results there after search. But what if I have hundreds of directories? | 12:35 |
| ham5urg | Claws-Email is good, the directories with searched+found emails are getting a (+) sign. The first search engine which works AFAIK. | 13:09 |
| APic | Heya. After a „apt -y full-upgrade“ on a Devuan Beowulf-System, my Grub2 no longer finds the Config-File ‑ i manually have to enter „configfile (hd0,gpt2)/grub/grub.cfg“ at the Prompt to get the Boot-Menu with my Kernels | 13:11 |
| APic | I even completely switched to Ceres now with full-upgrade, but the Problem is the same | 13:11 |
| APic | It is an UEFI-System | 13:12 |
| gnarface | seems like maybe a efi problem | 13:20 |
| gnarface | i see something on stackexchange from 2015 about elementaryOS and deleting and replacing the /boot/efi/EFI/grub/grub64.efi file, but i think maybe on beowulf you just need to install a package | 13:22 |
| APic | Mh, yes | 13:25 |
| APic | It seems like i just lacked the Package grub-efi | 13:25 |
| gnarface | ah, cool | 13:25 |
| gnarface | all working fine now? | 13:25 |
| APic | Maybe earlier GRUB just booted the Legacy-Way… | 13:25 |
| APic | Dunno yet, will reboot now | 13:26 |
| APic | Hm, now in /boot/efi/EFI i have both the Directories devuan/ and debian/ | 13:26 |
| APic | Before i only had devuan/ | 13:26 |
| gnarface | oh, that sounds like a familiar bug | 13:27 |
| gnarface | i forget what to do | 13:27 |
| APic | But at least grubx64.efi is there | 13:27 |
| APic | But yes, at least GRUB finds its Config now o/ | 13:27 |
| APic | Thanks for the Hint ☺ | 13:28 |
| gnarface | no problem | 13:28 |
| APic | Hm, now Audio stopped working | 13:36 |
| gnarface | uh oh | 13:36 |
| gnarface | maybe pulseaudio got installed? | 13:36 |
| APic | Before i had no Pulseaudio, now alsamixer still shows HDA Intel PCH with Realtek ALC236, but pavucontrol just has a „dummy“ Output-Device | 13:36 |
| APic | Yes | 13:36 |
| APic | I will try to purge it | 13:36 |
| gnarface | if that got pulled in, avahi-daemon may have also gotten pulled in | 13:37 |
| gnarface | you might want to purge them both | 13:37 |
| APic | Indeed | 13:37 |
| gnarface | in the future you should upgrade with --no-install-recommends to keep that from happening | 13:37 |
| APic | Ok, thanks | 13:37 |
| APic | Yup, Audio works again o/ | 13:39 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | IMO it's better to 'blacklist' a package that causes issues, such as by having a .pref file under /etc/apt/preferences.d/ (say, 55-no-thanks.pref) with something along the lines of (usual RFC 822-style): Explanation: Certain packages are not welcome here. Package: foo bar baz Pin: release c=main Pin-Priority: -42 . Though having a apt.conf.d/ file with APT::Install-Recommends "false"; doesn't hurt, either. | 14:57 |
| nemo | ok... libre has enough folks. see you on the other side (maybe) | 15:23 |
| ham5urg | I'm using a dovecot imap server which is very fast, fast enough that I can search for emails (which can go into 10 or 20'thousand) with my self writen perl script. But what I'm missing is a capable GUI-client which can help the average users in the office with searching. A fuzzy search (levenshtein-distance) would be optimal. Is there anything like that out there? | 16:18 |
| xrogaan | No idea. Doesn't seem hard to write though. | 16:28 |
| xrogaan | If you already have the logic in perl, you could try to slap a GUI on top of it. | 16:29 |
| Sissel | Hi there, I#m just trieing to install ArchBang on a usb-stick with refracta2usb, but it doesn't boot. I took kernel /ArchBang/arch/boot/x86_64/vm-linux initrd /ArchBang/arch/boot/initramfs-linux.img | 19:44 |
| Sissel | what is the correct live-media-path? | 19:45 |
| sysadmin | join #gamme on irc.butt.es and complain to _ncog about the spam | 19:53 |
| xrogaan | I know those words, but I don't understand them when put in that order. | 19:58 |
| fsmithred | Sissel, live-media-path is the path to the directory that holds the files for that live system. You named it something, I assume. | 20:04 |
| Sissel | I installed a downloaded an ArchBang archive (archbang-rc-1605-x86_64.iso) and installed it with r2usb on my stick | 20:10 |
| network_operatio | Remember Bitcoin in 2008??? Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, To claim your piece of pi goto https://minepi.com and use "ilkde" as your invitation code. Get your piece of the pi now ! | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | Sissel, what live-media-path did r2u put in the boot entry? | 20:11 |
| Sissel | I then choose live-media-path=/ArchBang/arch/boot/x86_64 (ArchBang is my "Distro Name" | 20:11 |
| fsmithred | choose? | 20:12 |
| fsmithred | the menu entry should be made automatically | 20:12 |
| Sissel | in the menu of refracta2usb | 20:12 |
| fsmithred | what is in that directory? | 20:13 |
| fsmithred | and is there a "live" dir with filesystem.squashfs in it? | 20:14 |
| Sissel | nope | 20:14 |
| fsmithred | the live-media-path for a refracta10 system that I have is live-media-path=/r10/live | 20:16 |
| fsmithred | it needs to point to the dir that holds the squashfs | 20:17 |
| Sissel | there is no squashfs at all | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | without looking it up, I don't know if it needs to be named filesystem.squashfs or not | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | well then, I don't know what you do to boot it. | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | where is the live filesystem stored? | 20:18 |
| Sissel | hmm ... should I create the usb with the ISO_1 or ISO_2 task in r2usb? | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | maybe 2 | 20:19 |
| Sissel | I'll try | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | where is the live filesystem stored? | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | tarball? cpio archive? | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | something compressed is what I would expect. | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | live-boot can deal with several formats, but I don't know the details. | 20:21 |
| Sissel | Seems to be a problem from arch with usb (many search hits), so, I kick it | 20:32 |
| Sissel | Good Idea for a fast, slim, gui-swiss-tool for rescueing any systems? :D | 20:33 |
| Sissel | An iso easy to install with refracta2usb? | 20:35 |
| fsmithred | Refracta | 20:37 |
| fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/stable/ | 20:38 |
| lunario | so i know how to find out the dependencies of a package with apt-cache depends, but how do i find out what package a specific dependency was installed for? | 20:38 |
| Sissel | Hmm, good one, sorry for being a dude :) | 20:38 |
| fsmithred | rdepends | 20:39 |
| lunario | ahh, thanks fsmithred | 20:39 |
| fsmithred | lunario, another one is 'aptitude why <package>' | 20:40 |
| lunario | i will look into that one too | 20:41 |
| iv4nshm4k0v | At least with toram=, a Squashfs image can be named arbitrarily, so long as its name ends with ".squashfs". Alternatively, the filename can be suffixed with .ext2, .ext3, .ext4, .xfs, .dir, .jffs, and will be loop-mounted appropriately (except for .dir, where it would be --bind -mounted instead, IIRC.) | 21:00 |
| Sissel | @fsmithread refracta rulez. Thanks. | 21:34 |
| fsmithred | yw. | 21:34 |
| fsmithred | btw; tab-completion works here. | 21:34 |
| Sissel | fsmithred: ah... thx again | 21:35 |
| Sissel | That way it's really nice to dive deeper in linux stuff :D | 21:36 |
| Sissel | fsmithred: Are the type of the partitions (primary, extended) on the stick relevant (pros, cons?) | 21:45 |
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