kassle | hi, anyone have experience using simple-cdd to build custom devuan installer ISO ? | 04:27 |
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Xenguy | kassle, talk to fsmithred | 04:56 |
Xenguy | He's probably asleep now, but idle til tomorrow | 04:58 |
golinux | kassle: Have you ever tried refractasnapshot? | 05:19 |
kassle | Xenguy_: noted, will wait for his availability | 07:51 |
kassle | golinux: AFAIK, refracta is for livecd. what i want to build is installer with preseeded profile | 07:52 |
golinux | kassle: Ah, OK. | 07:59 |
aplainzetakind | Does apt-get remove not block if there are still installed dependencies? | 09:44 |
aplainzetakind | Could I have accidentally broken the dependency tree? | 09:44 |
luna-is-here | If you remove a package that other packages depend on with apt-get it will remove those packages too. | 09:47 |
aplainzetakind | OK. | 09:47 |
luna-is-here | If you think you have missing dependencies try runnin: | 09:48 |
luna-is-here | apt-get install --fix-broken | 09:48 |
luna-is-here | *running | 09:48 |
aplainzetakind | luna-is-here: Thing look fine there. | 09:48 |
aplainzetakind | Something pulled in network-manager, I removed it, but the openrc service is still up. I can't figure out what provides that service. | 09:49 |
luna-is-here | What do you mean by "still up"? The file /etc/init.d/network-manager is contained in the package network-manager and should be removed when the package ist removed. | 09:58 |
aplainzetakind | I rebooted and rc-status still shows it. | 10:08 |
aplainzetakind | Let me reboot once more. | 10:08 |
aplainzetakind | It's still there. | 10:20 |
aplainzetakind | when I `aptitude search network-manager`, the network-manager line has a `c` at the beginning. | 10:22 |
aplainzetakind | I'm not sure what letter means what, but i seems to mean installed, p seems to be everything else (package?) but what is c? | 10:22 |
aplainzetakind | There's another unrelated package I manually removed which shows up c. | 10:23 |
unclouded | I don't use aptitude but does it mean that configuration is left behind? that used to be the difference between "remove" and "purge" a long time ago | 10:24 |
debdog | confirmed. c == configured. | 10:25 |
unclouded | aplainzetakind: does "dpkg -S" help to find the package that owns the openrc script? For example: `dpkg -S /etc/init.d/aoetools`: "aoetools: /etc/init.d/aoetools" | 10:29 |
aplainzetakind | unclouded: Well it says network-manager owns it. | 10:31 |
aplainzetakind | I should try purge I guess. | 10:31 |
aplainzetakind | But how does that service get started without errors. | 10:31 |
unclouded | is it really running according to `ps`? you can't start a process without the executable obviously | 10:32 |
aplainzetakind | I pgreped 'nm' and 'network', no such thing. | 10:33 |
aplainzetakind | Well purging got rid of it. | 10:37 |
unclouded | not the same version, but the only place I have network manager is Debian 10 and "Network" is capitalised there: `pgrep netw` shows nothing but `pgrep Netw` shows a process | 10:37 |
unclouded | cool | 10:37 |
aplainzetakind | But I'm puzzled, I definitely didn't install it explicitly, and I am just setting up the system so I haven't installed anything else that may have pulled it in, so how come it can be removed without issues? | 10:38 |
aplainzetakind | Do things which are not hard dependencies but are recommended also get pulled in? | 10:38 |
aplainzetakind | s/I haven't installed/I haven't uninstalled/ | 10:39 |
unclouded | does aptitude use apt or otherwise log to /var/log/apt like apt does? I can grep there to see what brought what in when | 10:39 |
aplainzetakind | I really don't know what I'm doing so well, so I'm not sure. I'll check/ | 10:40 |
aplainzetakind | But I used aptitude for its search stuff, never installed/removed with it, so it shouldn't be an issue. | 10:40 |
aplainzetakind | So tlp pulled it in, but it's still installed and running. | 10:42 |
aplainzetakind | Weird. | 10:43 |
unclouded | could it have been installed as a "recommendation", which would explain why it could be subsequently removed without issue? I have `alias i='apt install --no-install-recommends´` to avoid installing recommended packages | 10:43 |
aplainzetakind | Argh. | 10:45 |
unclouded | yup: tlp recommends tlp-rdw, which depends on network-manager | 10:45 |
aplainzetakind | Installing recommendations is a pretty insane default I'd say. | 10:45 |
aplainzetakind | Can I retrospectively remove all recommended stuff? | 10:46 |
aplainzetakind | Trying to have a minimalist system here. | 10:46 |
unclouded | I guess it depends how OCD I am. I once copied files across from a Windows 3.11 instllation until it worked. I think it worked in about 4 MB of disk space in the end | 10:46 |
unclouded | sorry, no idea if you can retrospectively remove packages that were merely recommended | 10:47 |
onefang | Might be better to s-tart from debootstrap if you want minimal. | 10:48 |
unclouded | if you have the option of reinstalling aplainzetakind, you could make a sorted list of installed packages and then diff that against a fresh installation to remind you what you need to install again | 10:49 |
unclouded | or you could make a fresh install in a VM, get a package list and then comare with what you have already | 10:50 |
aplainzetakind | Hmm. What I have/need involves dependencies of the Haskell toolchain and Haskell-built xmonad and whatnot, so I really don't want to go through that to see which dependencies pop up on the way. | 10:55 |
aplainzetakind | I understand packages are flagged as manually or auto installed. Can't I filter through all installed stuff and get those which are not manually installed and not dependencies of anything? | 10:56 |
aplainzetakind | I think I can get somewhere along these lines: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/231865/how-to-find-installed-deb-packages-needlessly-marked-as-manually-installed | 10:58 |
aplainzetakind | aptitude search -q -F %p '?installed ?automatic (!?reverse-depends(?installed .*))' | 11:03 |
aplainzetakind | ^ this finds 64 packages, I will examine more closely, but I think this is what I need. | 11:04 |
aplainzetakind | Anybody notice anything suicidal in this purge list? https://dpaste.com/2U3USJKKG | 11:31 |
GyrosGeier | aplainzetakind, what kind of system? | 11:55 |
GyrosGeier | acpi-support-base is part of power button handling IIRC | 11:56 |
GyrosGeier | grub-efi-* might be important for booting as well | 11:57 |
GyrosGeier | those aren't essential because they aren't needed in a container | 11:58 |
aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: kind in what sense? amd64 laptop with openrc, booting efi | 12:14 |
aplainzetakind | acpi-support-base was pulled in by acpid which I installed manually to get special buttons working, so probably not too essential. | 12:16 |
aplainzetakind | It seems grub-efi-* are installed during system installation. So those are also marked as automatic, which makes all this dangerous. | 12:18 |
fsmithred | removing grub-efi-amd64-signed is not a problem unless you're using secure boot | 12:26 |
fsmithred | the unsigned package will remain | 12:26 |
aplainzetakind | fsmithred: Could I be using secure booth without knowing that I do? | 12:33 |
fsmithred | are you dual-booting with windows? | 12:34 |
fsmithred | aplainzetakind, ^^^ | 12:35 |
aplainzetakind | No. | 12:36 |
fsmithred | then you don't need it and maybe never had it. Check bios/uefi settings. | 12:37 |
aplainzetakind | OK, thanks. | 12:39 |
aplainzetakind | Is it normal that there's no wheel group in the fresh install? | 20:57 |
djph | aplainzetakind: of ... devuan? | 21:02 |
djph | yeah, 'wheel' is a RedHat thing | 21:02 |
aplainzetakind | I'm trying to allow my nonroot user to interact with wpa_supplicant | 21:05 |
aplainzetakind | via wpa_cli/gui | 21:05 |
fsmithred | make sure user is in netdev group | 21:06 |
djph | ^ | 21:07 |
aplainzetakind | it is | 21:07 |
fsmithred | not sure what else. I use more clicky stuff for wireless | 21:07 |
aplainzetakind | Somehow got it working. | 21:13 |
aplainzetakind | There's a fake interface showing up in wpa_cli/gui | 21:13 |
aplainzetakind | my actual wireless interface is wlan0, but there's this p2p-dev-wlan0 | 21:14 |
aplainzetakind | nvm found the solution. | 21:16 |
djph | oh, what was it? | 21:18 |
fsmithred | an airboat just went by on the lake. Sounded kinda like there was a DC-3 revving up in the next room. | 21:21 |
fsmithred | I need a potato cannon. | 21:21 |
debdog | like an ekranoplan? | 21:23 |
debdog | or a DC-3 with floats? | 21:23 |
fsmithred | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airboat | 21:23 |
aplainzetakind | djph: https://superuser.com/a/1485376 | 21:24 |
fsmithred | just a boat with a big fan | 21:24 |
debdog | ahh | 21:24 |
fsmithred | I guess they are good in the Everglades for two reasons | 21:24 |
fsmithred | 1. no outboard motor to drag on the bottom of shallow water | 21:24 |
fsmithred | 2. it must scare away alligators | 21:25 |
debdog | oops, we're in the wrtong #channeö | 21:25 |
debdog | *nnel | 21:25 |
djph | aplainzetakind: well, that's a simple fix :) | 21:25 |
fsmithred | uh-oh | 21:25 |
fsmithred | well, my excuse is that I just underwent a mind-altering experience. | 21:26 |
debdog | hehe | 21:26 |
aplainzetakind | So I tweaked my wpa_supplicant.conf in a way which is supposed to make it accessible to netdev users. | 21:31 |
aplainzetakind | But when I boot, it is not. But then I kill it and restart it, and then it is. | 21:32 |
aplainzetakind | The thing is I don't know what starts wpa_supplicant at boot and how. | 21:32 |
aplainzetakind | Ah, connman is alive. | 21:33 |
aplainzetakind | OK, now with connman gone, it has to be started manually, and behaves as expected. Now how to start wpa_supplicant and hand wlan0 to dhclient at startup? | 21:40 |
aplainzetakind | (openrc) | 21:40 |
msiism | Is anyone else experiencing occasional crashes of the X server involving multiple X sessions (for multiple users) and LibreOffice on Beowulf? | 21:52 |
fsmithred | msiism, is apparmor installed? | 22:09 |
msiism | Let me check. | 22:09 |
fsmithred | there was a problem with libreoffice in live-isos with apparmor. The apparmor profile was missing or wrong. Not sure which. | 22:10 |
fsmithred | I just thinking guilt by association. | 22:10 |
msiism | Yes, it is installed. | 22:10 |
msiism | I remember , though that the VT showed some imlib-related error. | 22:10 |
fsmithred | try booting with apparmor=0 to turn it off and see if that helps | 22:10 |
msiism | Okay, I will. | 22:10 |
msiism | What other consequences will that have? | 22:10 |
fsmithred | if so, there's probably a better fix | 22:10 |
fsmithred | it means you'd be running without apparmor | 22:11 |
fsmithred | I'm not sure what apparmor protects you from | 22:11 |
msiism | Okay. :) | 22:11 |
fsmithred | probably nothing if you're the only user | 22:11 |
msiism | I'll read the man page. | 22:11 |
msiism | I really need to catch that error somehow. It doesn't end up in the log, as far as I've seen. | 22:11 |
msiism | Maybe I've been looking at the wrong log. | 22:11 |
msiism | I mean, it's not in Xorg's logs. | 22:12 |
fsmithred | is bootlogd installed? | 22:12 |
fsmithred | if that misses it, consider using a camera | 22:12 |
msiism | Yes. | 22:12 |
msiism | Right, that's what I thought. | 22:12 |
msiism | It's probably still on the TTY that I'm running this X session from, so I should be able to catch it before I shutdown today. | 22:13 |
fsmithred | oh, in that case, use tee when you startx | 22:13 |
msiism | Ah, good idea. | 22:13 |
aplainzetakind | Wat do I need to do to swap dhcpcd for dhclient? | 22:29 |
fsmithred | dhclient command is in isc-dhcp-client | 22:35 |
fsmithred | if you're going the other way, I guess you need udhcpd | 22:36 |
aplainzetakind | But certain things (such as the dhcp flag in a /etc/network/interfaces) seem to find dhclient automatically. How will they be informed of the switch? | 22:39 |
aplainzetakind | At the moment I can bring up and automatically connect to wifi at boot thanks to a stanza in /etc/network/interfaces. | 22:40 |
aplainzetakind | But it doesn't background and adds an awkward 15 second pause to my boot. | 22:40 |
aplainzetakind | fsmithred: ^ | 22:40 |
fsmithred | I don't know. | 22:42 |
fsmithred | never used dhcpd | 22:42 |
fsmithred | not knowingly, anyway | 22:42 |
fsmithred | if you're automatically connecting to a known wireless, couldn't you use static address? | 22:43 |
* nemo does that | 22:44 | |
nemo | first 20 addresses of 10.0.0 are for statics | 22:45 |
nemo | ♥ 10.0.0 for home IPv4 - means you can do like ssh 10.1 😃 | 22:45 |
nemo | and with so few machines at home, numbering them 1,2,3,4 is pretty darn easy to keep track of | 22:46 |
aplainzetakind | This is a laptop so I don't want to hardcode such things. | 22:46 |
nemo | aplainzetakind: why? it can be just for that network | 22:46 |
aplainzetakind | Actually my only concern is to not have to manually start wpa_supplicant and dhclient after boot. | 22:46 |
aplainzetakind | nemo: Hmm right, but really addressing part is not a concern at the moment. | 22:47 |
nemo | fair 'nuff. | 22:48 |
nemo | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Wpa_supplicant huh. seems like it shouldn't require anything manual | 22:49 |
* nemo shrugs | 22:49 | |
aplainzetakind | Yes but there is an openrc service for wpa_supplicant in gentoo. Somehow, I find none in devuan. | 22:53 |
aplainzetakind | Is there supposed to be one? | 22:53 |
nemo | ducking for gentoo and openrc... https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Network_management_using_DHCPCD#wpa_supplicant | 22:56 |
fsmithred | openrc in devuan uses the sysvinit script | 22:56 |
fsmithred | s | 22:56 |
nemo | fsmithred: aaagh crud | 23:22 |
nemo | fsmithred: sorry. got my channels mixed up | 23:22 |
nemo | fsmithred: the house is split between gentoo and devuan right now | 23:22 |
fsmithred | is it a battle? | 23:22 |
nemo | heh. gotta say my lazy pragmatic side usually chooses devuan | 23:23 |
nemo | but I do like the configurability of gentoo, so it is hanging on | 23:23 |
fsmithred | yeah, devuan will win faster, but gentoo might win longer | 23:23 |
nemo | $ ls -lt /etc | tail -n 1 | 23:24 |
nemo | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Sep 11 2002 opt | 23:24 |
brocashelm | the problem with debian is it has become a shell of its former self by means of turning into another canonical/red hat, whereas gentoo and arch continue to be independently owned and with a more faithful community backing. the problem is i don't want to compile software all day long and pacman is kind of a clusterfuck compared to apt IMO | 23:39 |
djph | brocashelm: yeh, debian could've really stood out ... but ... | 23:47 |
brocashelm | yeah, all that matters is devuan exists | 23:52 |
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