| nemo | you're still on ascii? O_o | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| wf3aew4t | yea..? is that why its not working u think? | 00:00 |
| nemo | no | 00:00 |
| nemo | just surprised | 00:00 |
| wf3aew4t | oh | 00:00 |
| nemo | even our servers are beowulf now | 00:00 |
| nemo | well. esp the servers, due to php | 00:01 |
| nemo | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=openssh-server=1:7.4p1-10+deb9u6 | 00:01 |
| nemo | it's there | 00:01 |
| nemo | wf3aew4t: what's your mirror name | 00:01 |
| wf3aew4t | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main | 00:02 |
| golinux | Could be in backports? | 00:02 |
| wf3aew4t | and ascii-security | 00:02 |
| nemo | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=openssh-server | 00:02 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: https://paste.debian.net/1204523/ | 00:02 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: (you can move the comments to the beowulf lines then update, then if you wish, continue on to beowulf; it's finished now) | 00:03 |
| wf3aew4t | gnarface can i replace everything with ascii? | 00:04 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: yes | 00:04 |
| wf3aew4t | gnarface tanks bro | 00:05 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: though asking that question makes me question whether you really understand the contents of that file... i'm worried | 00:05 |
| gnarface | i gave you a literal example so you wouldn't have to understand it before you use it, but you should still try to understand it for later | 00:05 |
| wf3aew4t | gnarface yea, i understand it | 00:06 |
| wf3aew4t | gnarface i think im stupid thou | 00:06 |
| wf3aew4t | lol | 00:06 |
| gnarface | well often what happens with stuff like openssh-server is that it gets a emergency patch which goes into ascii-security (or beowulf-security, or whatever) and then the other packages depend on that instead of the older version in main | 00:07 |
| gnarface | so if you're missing the *-security line it often looks like packages go missing spontaneously | 00:08 |
| wf3aew4t | oh that makes sense | 00:08 |
| wf3aew4t | oh i just realized only openssh-client is showing up because its installed | 00:12 |
| wf3aew4t | so when I do apt search only installed packages show up? | 00:12 |
| nemo | wait. you had the security line disabled? | 00:12 |
| nemo | was this a standard install? | 00:12 |
| wf3aew4t | yea its standard and no security was enabled | 00:13 |
| wf3aew4t | also just ascii was enabled | 00:13 |
| wf3aew4t | but i added -updates too | 00:13 |
| brocashelm | you should definitely have ascii-security enabled | 00:14 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: after altering the sources.list you have to run "apt-get update" once to update the index. "apt-cache search [pattern]" searches the cached index, does not make a remote connection by default automatically | 00:15 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: you typically should do this once at least on any day before you install or upgrade packages | 00:15 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: (try aptitude instead if youdon't want to spend t | 00:16 |
| gnarface | wf3aew4t: ... the brain power but would rather waste the bandwidth instead) | 00:16 |
| wf3aew4t | oh ok | 00:16 |
| gnarface | aptitude tries to think for you and provide advice if it finds conflicts | 00:17 |
| wf3aew4t | thanks a lot dude it ssems to have worked | 00:17 |
| gnarface | no problem | 00:17 |
| wf3aew4t | i did apt search ssh and 10000 packages came up lol | 00:17 |
| wf3aew4t | like 10000* | 00:17 |
| gnarface | hah, yea it helps to constrain the search with regexp wildcards | 00:18 |
| gnarface | i can't give you a lot of great advice on how other than to read books about it | 00:18 |
| gnarface | but the ^ key anchors to the start of the line | 00:18 |
| gnarface | so for example: apt-cache search ^openssh- | 00:19 |
| gnarface | this will only return packages for which "openssh-" occurs at the start of a line | 00:19 |
| wf3aew4t | oh thats really helpful, thx | 00:20 |
| gnarface | you're welcome | 00:20 |
| Eaglet | Hi, comrades! | 08:35 |
| gnarface | if you have questions just ask and wait | 08:38 |
| gnarface | or not | 08:38 |
| diegs | :S | 08:38 |
| * GyrosGeier is reminded of https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/6gtawu/antifa_want_sharia_law_and_call_each_other_conrad/ | 08:48 | |
| schillingklaus | does the impending hard freeze of bullseye influence the maintenance of devuan? | 09:18 |
| * GyrosGeier .oO(what maintenance?) | 09:19 | |
| GyrosGeier | basically, Devuan only contains packages that have been frozen for months | 09:20 |
| GyrosGeier | the rest is imported | 09:20 |
| GyrosGeier | so the only thing that will happen is that it gets even more quiet in the repo | 09:20 |
| aplainzetakind | (openrc) I installed pulseaudio and pavucontrol, and it turns out I need to manually start pa. Isn't there a service or something? | 09:40 |
| unclouded | Hey, I'm trying to convert a system from BIOS to UEFI and I'm mostly there now, but I get dumped at a GRUB shell at boot. If I type in the "set root", "linux", "initrd" and "boot" commands then it starts, but it's like it can't find grub.cfg to start up itself even though it's in the same directory as the .efi file | 09:40 |
| unclouded | aplainzetakind: I don't know how it works, but pulseaudio seems to get started by X for me (Ubuntu Server desktop with i3 though, so maybe not the same) | 09:42 |
| aplainzetakind | It has a systemd service I suppose. | 09:42 |
| aplainzetakind | Absent that, I don't know what's the correct way. | 09:43 |
| schillingklaus | pulseaudio is from poettering, so no good at all | 09:43 |
| unclouded | there seems to be a /usr/bin/start-pulseaudio-x11 in the pulseaudio package that might be involved | 09:43 |
| unclouded | shame, I quite like pavucontrol apart from always switching between the Playback and Output Devices tabs | 09:44 |
| unclouded | aplainzetakind: ironically, alsa-utils has a systemd service but pulseaudio doesn't seem to | 09:45 |
| schillingklaus | pulseaudio still uses alsa underneath | 09:46 |
| unclouded | so the alsa-utils service might start pulseaudio, schillingklaus? | 09:47 |
| schillingklaus | i do not know who or what starts pulseaudio | 09:48 |
| schillingklaus | especially on a server or so without X, wayland, and stuff | 09:49 |
| unclouded | right, I'm being hit by this bug: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=551 | 09:49 |
| aplainzetakind | schillingklaus: Many things unfortunately require poetteringware. | 09:51 |
| schillingklaus | for example? | 09:54 |
| aplainzetakind | Videoconferencing of all sorts. | 10:00 |
| aplainzetakind | If not explicitly, it's still buggy. | 10:00 |
| aplainzetakind | In-browser google meet, skypeforlinux, signal video calls. | 10:00 |
| aplainzetakind | They don't depend on pulseaudio but they have "bugs" of audio failing without it. | 10:01 |
| schillingklaus | i don't do video conferencing... or video whatsoever | 10:06 |
| GyrosGeier | unclouded, pulseaudio should have multiple systemd services | 10:08 |
| GyrosGeier | but the main one is a user service | 10:09 |
| aplainzetakind | Yeah, I run gentoo on my personal computer and don't touch such things but I have to set up a computer for work now. Hence the need for the unpleasantness. | 10:09 |
| GyrosGeier | so it runs in the user session and gets hardware access through policykit IIRC | 10:10 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: How should I start it with openrc? | 10:12 |
| GyrosGeier | I don't think there is a provision for user/session services in openrc | 10:12 |
| GyrosGeier | the best hook would be the Xsession setup (i.e. /etc/X11/Xsession.d) | 10:13 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: Do those run as user or root? | 10:28 |
| GyrosGeier | as user | 10:28 |
| GyrosGeier | but they need policykit to get hardware access | 10:28 |
| GyrosGeier | the idea being that there is a service that understands the link between "local display" and "local soundcard" | 10:29 |
| GyrosGeier | so whoever is logged on on the local console (even if it's X11 or wayland) also gets soundcard access | 10:30 |
| GyrosGeier | not sure if they implemented revocation as well | 10:30 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: Is this sort of thing adequate: http://paste.debian.net/1204554/ | 10:49 |
| user1 | Hi, there. Is it possible to install devuan in the arch-way to bootstraping with debootstrap? | 10:54 |
| GyrosGeier | aplainzetakind, probably needs "--daemon --exit-idle-time=-1" | 11:01 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: Thanks. | 11:06 |
| aplainzetakind | Can I drop the backgrounding with --daemon? | 11:07 |
| aplainzetakind | Seems I can. | 11:08 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: Well, the hook didn't trigger when I rebooted. What could be the culprit? | 11:23 |
| aplainzetakind | Are priority numbers beyond a threshold not autotriggered? I made it rather high (96). | 11:24 |
| laguneucl | i've customized luakit in my Beowulf+LXQt box with three search engines, dev(uan) deb(ian) and duck(duckgo) am the coolest or not? | 11:34 |
| laguneucl | now all i have to do to search for a devuan package is press 'o dev foopackage' | 11:36 |
| schillingklaus | luakit is easy to customize | 11:36 |
| GyrosGeier | aplainzetakind, IIRC script fragments need to be +x or something stupid | 12:35 |
| GyrosGeier | (so they can leave a README in the directory that isn't executed) | 12:35 |
| aplainzetakind | GyrosGeier: I did that but still got no joy. | 13:07 |
| aplainzetakind | Still can't figure out why my script in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ is doing nothing. | 15:46 |
| nemo | fsmithred: just to doublecheck your help from yesterday | 17:12 |
| nemo | replacing their recommendation with yours... | 17:12 |
| nemo | REMOVED: consolekit libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 libsystemd0 NEW: elogind libelogind0 libndp0 libnm0 libnma0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0 libteamdctl0 mobile-broadband-provider-info network-manager network-manager-gnome ppp | 17:12 |
| fsmithred | nemo, please be more specif... | 17:12 |
| nemo | sorry. just being paranoid ☺ | 17:12 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 17:12 |
| nemo | sudo apt install network-manager network-manager-gnome libpam-elogind | 17:13 |
| nemo | instead of | 17:13 |
| nemo | sudo apt install network-manager network-manager-gnome libpam-systemd | 17:13 |
| nemo | (the systemd being what emerge of network-manager said it needed) | 17:13 |
| fsmithred | if you install libpam-elogind before n-m-gnome, you should avoid that message | 17:13 |
| nemo | ok | 17:13 |
| nemo | well, the remove/new is unsurprisingly unchanged | 17:14 |
| nemo | that's fine? | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | you replaced consolekit with elogind, and it looks like it did it right | 17:14 |
| nemo | kk | 17:14 |
| nemo | yeah. don't want to have to do any tedious rebooting to single user or something 'cause I broke my logins | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | I think this problem might be fixed in future releases. Something about build-depends needing to change for elogind/libelogind0 | 17:15 |
| fsmithred | pretty sure any login problems with that mess would be for desktop | 17:16 |
| fsmithred | and usually it's for shutdown/reboot, not actual login | 17:16 |
| nemo | or suddenly synaptic-pkgexec not working 😝 | 17:17 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 17:17 |
| fsmithred | new desktop-live isos are almost uploaded | 17:17 |
| fsmithred | two more minutes and I'll post the link | 17:17 |
| nemo | oh.. is another release approaching? | 17:18 |
| fsmithred | yeah, chimaera | 17:18 |
| fsmithred | with any luck, we will release soon after bullseye | 17:18 |
| nemo | awesome. will be nice to avoid unstable on the living room machine | 17:18 |
| nemo | it's been on chimæra for a year now to avoid that mess with hacking in ugly badly written AMD proprietary driver just to get enough gl acceleration to run games | 17:19 |
| fsmithred | oh, if you're running ceres and want to keep it at chimaera, you should change it soon. | 17:19 |
| nemo | naw. at your recommendation I went straight to chimæra | 17:19 |
| fsmithred | yeah, it seems like it's ready | 17:20 |
| nemo | cool | 17:20 |
| nemo | maybe I'll switch this work machine over too, then, it's a relatively quiet friday. | 17:20 |
| nemo | perfect day to break my whole setup | 17:20 |
| fsmithred | all our chimaera isos are labeled 'alpha' now because we need to work bugs out of the isos, not the OS. | 17:21 |
| nemo | nice | 17:21 |
| nemo | hmmm I'm still pulling in ascii kernel for some BS tool that I don't think they even audit anymore. into the trash that goes | 17:21 |
| nemo | oh... hrm. or am I using that for vmware-view | 17:21 |
| nemo | guess I'll find out. wheeeeee | 17:22 |
| fsmithred | new live isos to test: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ | 17:22 |
| fsmithred | save the deb package | 17:22 |
| fsmithred | oh yeah, I have to move the isos to a directory that people can see. :) | 17:22 |
| nemo | $ ldd /usr/lib/vmware/view/bin/vmware-view | grep ssl libssl.so.1.0.2 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so.1.0.2 (0x00007fb883083000) | 17:23 |
| nemo | and 1.1 too, oddly | 17:23 |
| nemo | their tools are such trash | 17:23 |
| nemo | they once contracted out to ubuntu in an open source partnership to maintain it, but then ditched it. | 17:24 |
| nemo | or was it redhat | 17:24 |
| nemo | anyway. odd they did that just as vms and linux were on the upswing. | 17:24 |
| nemo | so many annoyances with vmware view. like, every few days it gets in a fight for who owns my usb devices and I have to ssh in and kill everything then unplug it and plug it back in | 17:25 |
| nemo | [4990561.912499] usb 2-3: usbfs: interface 0 claimed by usbfs while 'vmware-remotemk' sets config #1 | 17:25 |
| nemo | one of these days gotta figure out how to fix that | 17:25 |
| nemo | or at least I guess I could monitor dmesg and autokill to avoid the ssh bit | 17:25 |
| nemo | fsmithred: one problem with testing ISOs is that I'm only really useful in testing, I think, if I have a new machine to install or repair. otherwise I'm just using qemu same as you | 17:26 |
| nemo | fsmithred: oh. btw, is the new darktable in chimæra? hm. I guess that'd be up to debian really. let's see if it's in backports | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | yeah, VM still can help, but not as much as hardware install. | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | what is it? | 17:27 |
| nemo | 3.6.0 | 17:27 |
| nemo | has a bunch of nifty new toys | 17:27 |
| fsmithred | 3.4.1-5 50 | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | 50 http://sledjhamr.org/devuan/merged chimaera/main amd64 Packages | 17:28 |
| nemo | doh | 17:28 |
| nemo | guess I'm building it myself ☹ | 17:28 |
| fsmithred | 3.6 is in debian experimental | 17:28 |
| nemo | hmmm | 17:29 |
| nemo | maybe I could just grab the .deb and force install it | 17:29 |
| nemo | I'll try that once I'm done breaking my vmware view ☺ | 17:30 |
| fsmithred | that might work, or you might need to backport it. | 17:32 |
| fsmithred | which may or may not be easy | 17:32 |
| nemo | heh. E: The repository 'http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-backports Release' does not have a Release file. eh. gonna leave it enabled anyway. just in case I forget later and am like "why the heck is latest hotness not showing up" | 17:50 |
| fsmithred | there's no backports for the testing suite | 17:53 |
| nemo | right | 17:58 |
| nemo | I wasn't *surprised* it was erroring, just, not gonna fix it | 17:58 |
| nemo | I'll probably want it in like... a month | 17:58 |
| nemo | for darktable 😝 | 17:58 |
| nemo | hm. before I reboot this. I gotta doublecheck that grub thing | 17:59 |
| nemo | after what happened last time | 18:00 |
| aplainzetakind | So, I tried to switch from nouveau to nvidia drivers, which seemed to break stuff in a way very likely to be too much of a PITA, so I decided to reinstall. | 19:44 |
| aplainzetakind | And this time the first thing I did was to put APT::Install-Recommends "false"; | 19:44 |
| aplainzetakind | But now X won't start. The error in the logs is AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for gpu driver. | 19:46 |
| aplainzetakind | I'd think I'm missing some package. But dmesg also shows both i915 and nouveu errors. | 19:47 |
| rwp_ | aplainzetakind, Did you install a Desktop Environment at installation time? Or did you install without, set Recommends false, then install task-desktop task-xfce-desktop later? What exactly did you do? | 19:53 |
| rwp_ | I normally have Recommends false myself too. | 19:53 |
| aplainzetakind | I installed xinit, xserver-xorg. Also installed xmonad via the haskell toolchain. My .xinitrc consists solely of the line `exec xmonad` at the moment. I startx. | 19:55 |
| aplainzetakind | I have xserver-xorg-video-all | 19:55 |
| rwp_ | Normally the meta-package to install is one of the task-foo ones including task-desktop task-xfce-desktop (for xfce) "apt-cache search task- | grep task-.*-desktop | less" to search for other task flavors. | 19:55 |
| rwp_ | From a system here: https://paste.debian.net/plain/1204600 | 19:56 |
| aplainzetakind | I just blacklisted nouveau to simplify things. In dmesg, I have a `firmware: failed to load i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin` line. | 19:57 |
| rwp_ | I used to use the nouveau driver and it worked very well for years. But then earlier this year my Unstable daily updated system started having severe nouveau driver problems. | 19:57 |
| rwp_ | It got so bad that I pulled the nVidia card out of my system and switched it over to a Radeon card. Have had no problems with the radeon driver. | 19:58 |
| aplainzetakind | This is a laptop unfortunately. | 19:58 |
| rwp_ | I think nouveau on Stable is at this time good. But nouveau on Unstable was as of some months ago completely unreliable, would freeze my system and lock up. | 19:59 |
| aplainzetakind | Anyway, before breaking stuff by messing with the proprietary nvidia drivers, I had set up a minimal DE-less X just fine. | 19:59 |
| aplainzetakind | I did a fresh install and now I can't startx. | 19:59 |
| rwp_ | Unfortunately the words "breaking stuff" and "proprietary nvidia drivers" are a typical combination. | 20:00 |
| Eaglet | rwp_: aplainzetakind: Try this: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4389 | 20:00 |
| rwp_ | The proprietary driver has worked. It's often working. And also often broken. Getting a working version is usually a matter of trying many different versions and finding a working version of it. | 20:00 |
| aplainzetakind | I don't remember explicitly installing any '^task.*desktop$' the first time around, could some such have been pulled by a recommendation. | 20:00 |
| rwp_ | aplainzetakind, The "tasksel" step in the installer runs "tasksel" and it installs the task-foo things. Try running it in test mode. "tasksel -t" See "man tasksel". | 20:02 |
| rwp_ | Eaglet, I am filing that reference of yours away. Thanks. I am very happy with the radeon driver though. (And I *was* happy with the nouveau driver.) | 20:03 |
| aplainzetakind | rwp_: Ah. I did nothing different regarding that menu. | 20:03 |
| * rwp_ must run off... | 20:04 | |
| aplainzetakind | Cheers, thanks. | 20:04 |
| aplainzetakind | What do I need to do to properly bring up an xsession in ~/.xinitrc ? | 23:51 |
| gnarface | nothing really but if you want it to be a useful x session you probably want to start a window manager | 23:54 |
| gnarface | under the default setup it shouldn't be required at all, but i still use mine | 23:55 |
| aplainzetakind | I am running xmonad. I am also trying to run xmobar, but it can't find dbus sockets I think. If I run it with dbus-launch in xinitrc, it runs and then hangs. | 23:57 |
| aplainzetakind | But the thing is I didn't use to need anything of the sort before, so I'm thinking something's amiss with my xsession. | 23:59 |
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