| Soltis | gnarface: Around? Still haven't figured out that issue - and discovered another while I was at it. No audio. | 02:38 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | is this with or without pulseaudio installed? | 02:40 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Both | 02:40 |
| Soltis | gnarface: I had to add some switches to grub to get the audio device driver to load; plus installed the sof firmware for the device, so at least now it's listed in /proc/asound/cards seems to be loading correctly. | 02:40 |
| Soltis | s/seems/ and seems/ | 02:41 |
| Soltis | pulseaudio wasn't installed, so I also tried adding that just for fun. | 02:41 |
| gnarface | without pulseaudio installed you only need to check volumes in alsamixer, but with it installed you'll need to check volume in alsamixer without pulseaudio running, then in pavucontrol with it running | 02:43 |
| gnarface | it isn't actually uncommon for the drivers to default to 0 on everything | 02:46 |
| gnarface | and pavucontrol can't really do anything useful if alsamixer has the hardware muted underneath it | 02:46 |
| Soltis | It looked like the levels were okay when I checked. | 02:48 |
| gnarface | Soltis: ^ | 02:48 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Yeah, I was just double checking. alsamixer seems to report the device volumes at 100% - except the headphone jack which I'm not using | 02:49 |
| gnarface | well if you opened alsamixer after you installed pulseaudio, it would have only shown you the pulseaudio levels | 02:49 |
| gnarface | so it's important that you see what alsamixer says when pulseaudio is not running | 02:49 |
| gnarface | look at the top left corner, it will either say your hardware or pulseaudio... if it says something else it's the wrong device entirely (some usb devices like webcams also show up as audio devices) | 02:49 |
| Soltis | gnarface: I looked at alsamixer as root; pretty sure it was the actual device levels - it showed the expected devices. Running it as the user shows pulseaudio as expected. | 02:50 |
| gnarface | and they didn't have "MM" under them? | 02:50 |
| gnarface | they can be muted independently of their volume levels | 02:50 |
| Soltis | Yes, they're not muted, and volume level is 100 or 100<>100 depending on the device. | 02:51 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 02:51 |
| gnarface | what does this do? speaker-test -c 2 | 02:51 |
| Soltis | Errors with unable to open slave; -16 device busy | 02:52 |
| gnarface | definite problem | 02:52 |
| Soltis | Earlier I did try that and it ran but there was no output | 02:52 |
| gnarface | well now it thinks its busy | 02:52 |
| gnarface | it could be "busy" with something crashed though, or even busy with silence | 02:53 |
| Soltis | Yep. I'm nuking pulseaudio and rebooting to get one thing out of the way. I can play with that later once I can get noise to come out. | 02:53 |
| Soltis | Well, this is interesting. Definitely got driver/fw problems I think. | 02:54 |
| gnarface | if auto-mute mode is enabled in alsamixer, then plugging stuff like headphones or external speakers in might have irrational results (sometimes it doesn't work very reliably and fires twice or when its not supposed to) | 02:54 |
| Soltis | Just rebooted and now ONE channel is muted for the headphones but not the other. | 02:54 |
| gnarface | intersting | 02:54 |
| gnarface | but do you hear out of that one channel ? | 02:54 |
| Soltis | Also the chipset reads 'realtek generic' which I'm pretty sure is wrong. | 02:54 |
| gnarface | no that's probably right | 02:54 |
| gnarface | well that's the hardware | 02:55 |
| Soltis | Ooo | 02:55 |
| Soltis | I have sound | 02:55 |
| gnarface | but you're right that the hda_intel driver which addresses that could be mis-detecting partially | 02:55 |
| Soltis | ... interesting | 02:55 |
| Soltis | Toggling the mute state twice caused sound to no loger work. | 02:55 |
| gnarface | ok, yea you got a driver problem | 02:56 |
| Soltis | Mm, okay | 02:56 |
| Soltis | Interesting. | 02:56 |
| Soltis | I just ran the test WHILE toggling mute status | 02:56 |
| gnarface | so the problem with the hda_intel driver is that it actually is a catch-all driver for a class of audio device apis served by ... entirely 3rd party companies unrelated to intel | 02:56 |
| gnarface | so it's very common for it to mis-detect very new hardware | 02:56 |
| Soltis | ... hang on. | 02:56 |
| Soltis | I may be misreporting | 02:56 |
| Soltis | Sec. | 02:56 |
| gnarface | it's also common if you have more than one audio device for alsa to pick one you're not expecting | 02:57 |
| gnarface | you can get a list with "aplay -l" | 02:57 |
| Soltis | Okay speaker-test appears to work randomly either single or 2 channel. | 02:58 |
| Soltis | Toggling mute on the device MAY help. Still experimenting. | 02:59 |
| Soltis | ... okay the toggling relation may have just been a coincidence. | 03:02 |
| Soltis | Whatever it is, this is not working consistently. The actual device connected to the speakers appears to be labeled 'PCM' | 03:02 |
| gnarface | that's fairly normal | 03:03 |
| Soltis | Yeah | 03:03 |
| Soltis | I'm remembering all this shit ... pulseaudio didn't even exist, or at least wasn't widely used, last time I did this crap. | 03:03 |
| gnarface | well, hopefully after it's set right the volume settings will be stored correctly through reboot, but if they're not you may be facing two problems | 03:04 |
| Soltis | Let's see. | 03:05 |
| Soltis | Okay so it did preserve settings. | 03:32 |
| gnarface | you can override the auto-detection with that driver | 03:34 |
| gnarface | check the kernel docs for valid values of the model= parameter | 03:34 |
| gnarface | i think the file has HDA in the name | 03:34 |
| Soltis | I don't see files with hda in the name that are relevant. | 03:37 |
| Soltis | Oh I hate this shitty terminal emulator.... | 03:47 |
| Soltis | gnarface: I don't remember where I saw it, but I do recall something about some devices muting themselves if there's no audio output for a while. | 03:50 |
| Soltis | gnarface: I have noticed that sound will work immediately on boot, and continues to work as long as I play _SOMETHING_ | 03:51 |
| Soltis | The issue is that it seems to mute and then alsa can't unmute it (reliably) again | 03:51 |
| Soltis | This may be connected to the fact that when the audio stops working I seem to get messages like 'hdaudioCOD2: unable to sync register 0x3f0d00. -5' | 03:55 |
| gnarface | Soltis: oh... it could be power management related, you might be able to disable it for the soundcard with a module parameter, too | 04:40 |
| gnarface | Soltis: as for the models... how about /usr/share/doc/linux-doc/Documentation/sound/hd-audio/models.rst.gz | 04:42 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Yeah I found the list. Not sure which one it is, but I'm gonna explore that a bit. I'm currently specifying model=laptop-amic for snd-hda-intel | 05:12 |
| Soltis | Without that, it appears not to work at all. | 05:13 |
| gnarface | well, if it's failing to auto-detect correctly, then chances are it's not in the list, but you might get lucky and find something more similar | 05:15 |
| Soltis | What would be really fucking helpful is knowing exactly what the hell audio device is in this thing. | 05:15 |
| gnarface | what does lspci say? | 05:15 |
| gnarface | lspci |grep audio -i | 05:16 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Intel Corporation Tiger Lake-LP Smart Sound Technology Audio Controller (rev 20) | 05:17 |
| gnarface | cat /proc/asound/card0/codec#0 |grep codec -i | 05:17 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Realtek Generic | 05:18 |
| gnarface | maybe laptop-amic is the closest you can get | 05:19 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 05:19 |
| gnarface | i don't know | 05:19 |
| Soltis | It's using snd_hda_intel driver; would be curious to see how the snd_sof_pci_intel_tgl driver worked instead | 05:19 |
| Soltis | but I'm not exactly sure how control that - I did try blacklisting snd_hda_intel, but that seemed to simply make it not work at all. | 05:20 |
| Soltis | gnarface: One thing to note - audio does work continuously if I don't allow it to be interrupted. I've been running speaker-test for about an hour and it's still working; I can play music at the same time, too. | 05:23 |
| Soltis | ... but if I interrupt the test, it's going to stop working with about a 70% probability. | 05:23 |
| gnarface | huh | 05:23 |
| gnarface | weird | 05:23 |
| gnarface | Soltis: it might be a matter for the alsa-devel mailing list, or at least their irc channel, though pursuing it further will probably involve a bleeding-edge kernel build | 05:58 |
| amarsh04 | building your own kernels isn't so bad once you remove the largest items of not-applicable parts from your build | 06:00 |
| amarsh04 | for me it's: make -j6 menuconfig bindeb-pkg | 06:01 |
| Soltis | amarsh04: Yeah, I used to build the kernel a *lot*, but it's been a while. Changed a lot, and the biggest thing is how much I have to disable now ... and not confident enough in the exact hw in this thing to know exactly what to disable so erring on the side of caution. | 06:02 |
| Soltis | Was easier when it was a machine I built, not a laptop from Dell. | 06:02 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Yeah, starting to get that feeling. | 06:02 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Did discover the fw may also be an issue | 06:02 |
| amarsh04 | even on a lighter weight kernel I keep all the sound options - the modules only load if needed | 06:03 |
| gnarface | Soltis: there are firmware packages in both main and non-free but i wasn't aware this driver needed any | 06:17 |
| gnarface | at least any non-free stuff that is | 06:17 |
| gnarface | do you have the firmware-linux-free package? | 06:18 |
| gnarface | i can't imagine the graphics would have worked without it but i guess i dunno for sure | 06:18 |
| gnarface | it also should have installed it if you need it but i guess nothing is a guarantee | 06:18 |
| gnarface | if you can find the firmware in their git repo or something maybe you can just copy it to /lib/firmware | 06:19 |
| gnarface | oh and with regards to the power management issue, if they have out-of-tree versions of any firmware or modules there, maybe you can just build them and load them without rebuilding the entire kernel too | 06:20 |
| gnarface | worth looking into anyway, since that would fix a lot, in theory | 06:21 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Yeah, I have the fw packages, and I installed stuff from the sof project, but I _think_ I may need to downgrade from 1.8 to 1.7; trying that now. | 06:34 |
| jason1234 | the embedded rpi3b does not work, i.e. apt-get install gcc does no work on jessie. how to make or fix it? | 06:39 |
| jason1234 | the package gcc is not availabe , but refered to by another package... is missing or oboloste. is your pkg package.list broken on arm? | 06:40 |
| jason1234 | apt-get does not work on jessie devuan for rpi3 raspberrys pi | 07:25 |
| rrq | possibly... is that arm64 ? | 07:39 |
| rrq | you are using archive.devuan.org I supppose? | 07:48 |
| jason1234 | seems link | 07:48 |
| jason1234 | seems like | 07:48 |
| jason1234 | which is recommend for pi? | 07:48 |
| rrq | perhaps you should ask at #devuan-arm instead | 07:50 |
| jason1234 | I would just neeed to know where is the default sources list of arm64 pi for jessie? is there a server? | 08:56 |
| gnarface | i don't think the main jessie repo moved, i think what happened is jessie-security got taken down | 08:59 |
| gnarface | (by debian) | 08:59 |
| gnarface | and not recently, either | 09:00 |
| jason1234 | well, apt-get does not work for sure | 09:08 |
| Soltis | gnarface: So that doesn't work. Interestingly enough, using the sof driver completely fails to populate sound devices. | 09:27 |
| gnarface | jason1234: it might be down completely now, if so that is fairly recent | 09:30 |
| gnarface | jason1234: this is what the sources.list should have looked like back when it was all still live: https://paste.debian.net/1205448/ | 09:33 |
| gnarface | jason1234: (the other releases aren't different except for a simple string replacement) | 09:33 |
| rrq | note that jessie is at archive.devuan.org | 09:50 |
| rrq | and there s no jessie-security | 09:50 |
| rrq | so "deb http://archive.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free" should be fine | 09:51 |
| rrq | jason1234: ^^^ | 09:53 |
| jason1234 | thx | 10:08 |
| jason1234 | W: GPG error: http://archive.devuan.org jessie InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available | 10:12 |
| jason1234 | apt-get does not work | 10:13 |
| brocashelm | try downloading the gpg key | 10:16 |
| brocashelm | wget -nc https://archive.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/Release.gpg | 10:16 |
| brocashelm | sudo apt-key add Release.gpg | 10:16 |
| jason1234 | shall not be in default? people wont bother much about the gpg insanity | 10:19 |
| jason1234 | I will debootstrap and put devuan on a pendrive to look if after debootstrap, the gpg is there by default | 10:20 |
| jason1234 | (on raspberry pi rpi3b+)I | 10:20 |
| jason1234 | a md5/sha checksum check would be far sufficient | 10:21 |
| jason1234 | the gnu people like to re-invent something to make it impossible to use and surely worse. best example: systemd | 10:22 |
| furrymcgee | sources.list? | 10:26 |
| furrymcgee | try [trusted=yes] | 10:26 |
| jason1234 | ok ; put devuan arm64 on pendrive, ... the gpg does not work by default. apt-get install debootstrap ; PKG='wpasupplicant,netbase,ssh,login,passwd,less' ; debootstrap --no-check-gpg --include=$PKG jessie . http://archive.devuan.org/merged | 10:27 |
| jason1234 | furrymcgee: a fork of apt-get, that becomes unfunctional, would be best | 10:27 |
| furrymcgee | are you asking me to do this? | 10:28 |
| jason1234 | no no | 10:29 |
| jason1234 | i did a little one for slackware | 10:29 |
| jason1234 | isnt devuan on pi slower than raspios/raspbian? | 10:33 |
| jason1234 | the debootstrap takes ages and eternity to compile. likely the kernel, no idea | 10:34 |
| jason1234 | *complete. | 10:34 |
| jason1234 | after debootstrap on pi, there is no eth0 by default, anyhow. but it is so slow. is there a better kernel and modules? | 11:12 |
| Soltis | gnarface: Sound works; apparently one of the Realtek codecs/chips that wasn't enabled was required. | 11:28 |
| ShorTie | jason1234, i use the foundation kernel and things with a raspi-list | 11:34 |
| jason1234 | ShorTie: to recompile kernel pi on devuan would take centuries. Isnt possible to take the kernel 5.x of raspios and to use it on devuan? devuan is way to slow to be useable on a raspberry pi | 11:36 |
| ShorTie | i don't compile it | 11:38 |
| ShorTie | i use this https://dpaste.org/dQFu | 11:39 |
| ShorTie | to get the foundations kernel and stuff | 11:39 |
| Soltis | So my other issue - if anyone else around has any bright ideas - is that after closing/opening the lid to this laptop (Dell xps 9310) the mouse becomes confined to a small area in the middle of the screen and it ignores keyboard inputs. (The system is not hard locked, though; I can kill/restart X by toggling to another terminal) | 12:04 |
| Weeezy | Soltis, are you telling your laptop to sleep when you close the lid? Is your problem happening on battery and on power? | 12:28 |
| Soltis | Weeezy: 'When laptop lid is closed: lock screen' is selected for both line and battery; is happening in both cases I believe, *definitely* happening when plugged in. | 12:34 |
| Soltis | I also set all the 'HandleLidSwitch' settings to 'ignore' in logind.conf | 12:35 |
| gnarface | Soltis: how'd you enable the missing codec? in the kernel build? or did you just have to load a module that didn't auto-load right or what? | 12:38 |
| Soltis | gnarface: I decided 'wth, might as well' and enabled every single Intel/Realtek item in the audio menu tree. One of them worked apparently. | 12:40 |
| Soltis | gnarface: So kernel rebuild | 12:40 |
| Soltis | (More specifically I enabled them all as modules; I'm not _that_ crazy) | 12:40 |
| Soltis | But holy god this config is ***huge*** compared to what I'm used to. So. many. devices. | 12:41 |
| Soltis | I used to go through every single item in `make menuconfig` every time I did a kernel build ... that would take *so long* now. | 12:41 |
| gnarface | yea i can't do it in one sitting anymore | 12:42 |
| Soltis | Ugh me either. I'd pay - actually pay - for a tool that sniffed the hw and only enabled *possible* matches plus some blanket stuff for like USB storage devices and other "you never know if you'll need it" stuff. | 12:43 |
| gnarface | is that a rebuild of 5.10 or is it 5.13? | 12:43 |
| Soltis | 5.13 | 12:43 |
| Soltis | ... and I can count on one hand the amount of sw I've paid for | 12:44 |
| Soltis | (Excepting games ...) | 12:44 |
| darkeye | Ohaio menasan, | 13:04 |
| darkeye | oganki | 13:04 |
| jason1234 | is there devuan for arch: armhf? | 14:36 |
| buZz | yep | 14:42 |
| buZz | https://arm-files.devuan.org/ | 14:43 |
| jason1234 | https://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_arm64_rpi3.img.zip might be armhf right? | 14:49 |
| jason1234 | it didnt know about this webpage... | 14:49 |
| jason1234 | brlx: servus! | 14:50 |
| fsmithred | jason1234, https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=24 | 14:52 |
| buZz | jason1234: maybe read before you type | 14:57 |
| buZz | arm64 is not armhf , -clearly- | 14:57 |
| buZz | ;) | 14:58 |
| jason1234 | well, armhf is for rpi3b+, not arm64/aarch64. retropie and debian use the armhf for the rpi3b+ | 15:01 |
| buZz | jason1234: rpi3 is arm64 | 15:07 |
| buZz | many arm64 boards can -also- execute armhf | 15:07 |
| buZz | jason1234: just read the freaking filenames | 15:07 |
| buZz | https://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_arm64_rpi3.img.zip | 15:08 |
| jason1234 | ok thanks, I will download, https://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf_3.1.0_armhf_rpi2.img.zip, and take the raspbian kernel/modules, with debootstrap of devuan. | 15:51 |
| gour | hello, i'm on debian/sid and would like to move to devuan/ceres and wonder which init system is brighter future in devuan: runit or openrc? | 16:35 |
| fsmithred | gour, maybe runit. There is some activity around that now. | 16:39 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3716 | 16:40 |
| fsmithred | maybe S6 in the future, too | 16:40 |
| brocashelm | gour: i'm on ceres and use runit. no problems here. it still uses sysvinit scripts in part, though | 16:42 |
| brocashelm | a friend of mine maintains s6 for artix. he would be pleased if devuan would support it | 16:42 |
| jason1234 | openrc is classic, still working nad proved to be reliable | 17:19 |
| golinux | brocashelm: Someone at dyne was working on a version of s6 but hasn't been seen in some time. | 17:23 |
| golinux | https://danyspin97.org/blog/tt-development-update-1/ | 17:24 |
| golinux | He used to come to Devuan meets | 17:25 |
| jason1234 | you mean online or at debian-conf (or devuan-confs)? | 17:26 |
| golinux | Laurent Bercot gave a presentation | 17:29 |
| golinux | at the 2018 Devuan Conference | 17:29 |
| golinux | about s6 | 17:30 |
| golinux | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qE43KK5bY&t=7622s | 17:31 |
| jason1234 | he has a github or gitlab with source code? | 17:36 |
| golinux | search for skarnet | 17:40 |
| golinux | There is a mail list | 17:40 |
| golinux | (sorry just waking up so a little fuzzy) | 17:41 |
| plasma41 | TIL about the pstree command. Neat. | 18:29 |
| Soltis | plasma41: `top` is pretty neat, too if you haven't used it. | 19:19 |
| onefang | top -c | 19:19 |
| Soltis | onefang: I prefer to toggle it with 'c' inside the program, sort by memory (f<down>sq), set update rate to half a second, and then save those settings with W so it's always how I like it. | 19:23 |
| gilberto | Hi there. Is there any kde plasma 5.22.3 'till now in Devuan?? | 19:23 |
| gilberto | Maybe this repo could work? https://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/npreining:/debian-kde:/plasma522/Debian_Unstable/amd64/ | 19:24 |
| brocashelm | which version of devuan are you using? ascii, beowulf, chimaera, ceres? | 19:29 |
| gilberto | chimaera. Is ceres already released? | 19:29 |
| brocashelm | no, ceres is unstable (same as sid) | 19:30 |
| gilberto | Actually I just install Devuan today. First time whit this distro. I know others like [K]Ubuntu, Void Linux etc | 19:30 |
| brocashelm | chimaera is the current testing branch; it will be released after bullseye is released | 19:31 |
| brocashelm | if you need newer packages, ceres (unstable) will continuously get updates (never frozen, unlike any testing branch) | 19:31 |
| brocashelm | and ceres and chimaera are pretty close to each other right now. just one or two kernel updates away (from chimaera to ceres) | 19:32 |
| gilberto | Nice to hear about that. So just change sources.list and I ready to go, right? | 19:33 |
| brocashelm | yes, you just have to change your sources.list and run apt update, apt dist-upgrade, apt upgrade, and reboot (if all is successful) | 19:33 |
| gilberto | Oh! Ok... The normal stuff! Thanks a lot. | 19:34 |
| brocashelm | since chimaera is still frozen at the moment, you might get a ton of updates, but it's not that bad | 19:34 |
| gilberto | Nice... Something to play around this weekend... Thanks | 19:34 |
| brocashelm | np. i can certainly help you with getting your ceres up and running as i have no problems with stability whatsoever using it | 19:35 |
| brocashelm | btw, don't forget to install apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs | 19:35 |
| brocashelm | so that you can review changes to packages before upgrading (if a known bug is found, you can still abort the upgrade or pin that particular version of the package so that you don't install that one) | 19:35 |
| gilberto | Well.. I just change the sources.list and get this E: The repository 'http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ceres-security Release' does not have a Release file. | 19:35 |
| gilberto | Dono if need something else | 19:36 |
| brocashelm | try this: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main non-free contrib | 19:36 |
| gilberto | gotcha | 19:36 |
| brocashelm | keep in mind you only need one line for ceres | 19:36 |
| brocashelm | all the security and other updates are included :) | 19:36 |
| gilberto | Cool. | 19:37 |
| fsmithred | you only need one line for chimaera right now, but a -security line probably won't fail | 19:38 |
| gilberto | 80 packages to be upgrade | 19:38 |
| gilberto | Time to reboot... Thanks for your help. | 19:39 |
| brocashelm | :) | 19:39 |
| gour | fsmithred: thanks. i'm also leaning towards it...spent some time with voidlinux in the past and runit was/is very simple & fast | 19:40 |
| gour | brocashelm: good. hopefully moe scripts will be provded in due course of time | 19:41 |
| jason1234 | I prefer the way does slackware with the repository. it is readily working and easy to mirror. pkgs using apt-get is just pain. | 19:41 |
| brocashelm | yeah, i agree | 19:41 |
| brocashelm | gour: i ONLY run ceres on all my devuan machines. it's very stable and you just have to pay attention to what apt/aptitude tells you | 19:42 |
| jason1234 | They are smart, they just use a PACKAGE.TXT and nothing else, the rest is cross linking. they use C to make it work | 19:42 |
| gour | brocashelm: yeah, i plan to do the same...sid is also always very stable for me | 19:43 |
| jason1234 | openbsd uses perl for their packages, which is ultra slow and ultra unreliable. Why not Java ?`lol | 19:43 |
| brocashelm | gour: even deb-multimedia.org and oibaf's graphics-drivers repositories work perfectly as i get them packaged straight from git (daily) | 19:43 |
| gour | probably no need for those repos, but good to know | 19:43 |
| * Xenguy installs apt-listbugs ... | 19:59 | |
| Xenguy | plasma41, I think fsmithred put me on to pstree. Handy | 20:00 |
| Xenguy | brocashelm, Does apt-listbugs get invoked automatically, or does it need to be run manually before upgrades or whatever? | 20:00 |
| gour | listbugs & listchanges are automatcially invoked, iirc | 20:03 |
| Xenguy | Good, that's the easiest way for Joe User | 20:04 |
| onefang | They will even use your PAGER. | 20:04 |
| Xenguy | hrm, | 20:05 |
| onefang | Or a graphic window if using a GUI like synaptic. | 20:05 |
| Xenguy | $ echo $PAGER | 20:05 |
| Xenguy | 20:05 | |
| Xenguy | Looks like it's not set here | 20:05 |
| onefang | less might be the default. | 20:05 |
| Xenguy | I think so, which is perfect | 20:06 |
| brocashelm | yes, they are automatically by default | 20:13 |
| brocashelm | less is what is used for apt-listchanges, true | 20:14 |
| Xenguy | I had listchanges but not listbugs | 20:29 |
| Xenguy | I'm running beowulf, but still nice to have installed anyway | 20:29 |
| brocashelm | yeah, you get the option to dodge upgrades with apt pinning if any package's bug report forewarns you. i had it happening only a handful of times so far. the most significant one was dh-strip-nondeterminism (the upgrade process would never complete, and i got stuck on that). see this bug report from upstream: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=981895 | 20:33 |
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