| exorcist | it would be cool to have a Devuan wiki to upload this kind of stuff, akin to the Arch wiki, which is very useful. It would also help to popularize the project. | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| fsmithred | wiki is coming | 00:17 |
| exorcist | Great! Soon (tm)? | 00:20 |
| fsmithred | I haven't heard a recent update. | 00:20 |
| fsmithred | for now, stuff can be documented at the forum | 00:21 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/ | 00:22 |
| fsmithred | probably in Freedom Hacks | 00:22 |
| exorcist | 👍 I'll check it out | 00:22 |
| golinux | A new wiki has been vaporware for 3 years. | 00:27 |
| golinux | And yes, the forum is the main source for documentation and problem solving. | 00:28 |
| hagbard | hi, trying to move from an already installed debian to devuan. I get this message when trying to install elogind or eudev: "systemd is the active init system, please switch to another before removing systemd" | 03:22 |
| hagbard | Any hints? | 03:22 |
| hagbard | Even trying to install those (or uninstall systemd) with dpkg --force all doesn't work and yields the same message. | 03:23 |
| gnarface | hagbard: install all of the following packages: sysv-rc sysvinit sysvinit-core sysvinit-utils | 03:27 |
| hagbard | same | 03:27 |
| gnarface | you sure your apt sources are pointing at devuan? | 03:28 |
| hagbard | sure | 03:28 |
| gnarface | which debian version and which devuan version? | 03:28 |
| hagbard | debian (current testing) to chimaera | 03:29 |
| hagbard | Never mind, I just edited the prerm file of systemd to remove that check, now I seem to get ahead | 03:30 |
| gnarface | hah, alright whatever works | 03:30 |
| hagbard | But might be frustrating for others, if they try to moe. | 03:31 |
| hagbard | *move | 03:31 |
| hagbard | it's this check : if [ "$1" = "remove" ] && [ -e /sys/fs/cgroup/systemd ]; then | 03:35 |
| fsmithred | hagbard, do you have any more systems that need to be migrated? There's an alternate method described on the forum. | 03:37 |
| fsmithred | the difference is that you don't remove systemd or reboot until the migration to devuan is finished. | 03:38 |
| hagbard | But due to dependencies, it didn't let me install sysvinit without removing systemd. Editing the prerm file did the trick, umounting the cgroup probably also would. | 03:40 |
| fsmithred | hagbard, here's a link to the discussion. This is my summary. Scroll up to nixer's posts if you want more details. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p18390 | 03:49 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if it still works. | 03:49 |
| Hum | Hi! Is there another comunnity wiki for devuan? | 17:35 |
| brocashelm | hum: there was "friends of devuan", but it hadn't been maintained and the site went offline not long ago. an official wiki is currently being planned out | 17:45 |
| Hum | brocashelm: Thx. I guess I was one of the few users ;) | 17:46 |
| golinux | Hum: A new wiki has been vaporware for 3 years. | 18:08 |
| sadsnork | So what is holding up the creation of a Devuan wiki? | 18:11 |
| user____ | Isn't there a quasi wiki on already? | 18:15 |
| user____ | https://www.devuan.org/os/community the forum? | 18:16 |
| user____ | https://dev1galaxy.org/ this | 18:17 |
| user____ | Got that, Hum ? | 18:23 |
| user____ | golinux: well, the old forum is better than a new wiki, because it exists! | 18:23 |
| golinux | user____: Exactly | 18:46 |
| Hum | user____: thx | 18:51 |
| mason | golinux: We stood up TWiki and it checked all the boxes. Should we just stand that up again and open it up? | 19:20 |
| mason | Between full-time work and the family, maintaining the house, etc., and outside projects, "it's been vapourware for three years" doesn't really rev me up to engage. Heh. | 19:22 |
| mason | That all the possible software is obnoxious doesn't help. | 19:22 |
| * user____ fails to understand the preferrence for a wiki vs a forum archive. As long as the forum search function is working, they are the same. | 19:33 | |
| onefang | Wiki can be edited. If there's a change after months of discussion, forum searching might miss the change. | 19:36 |
| user____ | onefang typically own posts in forum can be edited | 19:39 |
| mason | user____: That's pretty much it. The Wiki allows for nice indices and searches and gives decent presentation tools. | 19:39 |
| mason | Forums have always seemed like a weak replacement for mailing lists to me. | 19:40 |
| user____ | Right. So it's about rounded corners. Point taken. | 19:40 |
| user____ | Forums put discussions in chronological logical order in view. Wikis concentrate on content and hide the discussion. | 19:40 |
| mason | Right. | 19:40 |
| user____ | That is mostly it. And I prefer the forum way, chronology is important. | 19:41 |
| mason | Version history helps there, and there's the notion of stamping pages with "last validated" dates beyond that. | 19:41 |
| mason | I haven't seen that concept used much in public wikis, but private/corporate wikis I've worked on have used it to good effect. | 19:42 |
| mason | But yeah, it's vapourware, so I guess it's irrelevant. | 19:42 |
| onefang | I wrote a system that combined wikis and forums. Basically not hiding the discussion. | 19:43 |
| onefang | I'll be rewriting it some time in the future, want to move away from Drupal for that sort of thing. | 19:43 |
| mason | Yeah, that can be useful. Work moved from one platform that does that to another. It's mostly-wiki but with per-page discussion that looks forum-like with some rudimentary threading. | 19:44 |
| onefang | Exactly. | 19:45 |
| golinux | Note that post editing on the forum has a time limit. | 20:05 |
| user____ | The time limit can be changed by the forum owner... and set to infinity for the post owner, no doubt | 20:06 |
| mason | My favourite as a user right now is Moinmoin but it's based on Python 2. I guess it can't hurt to look again. | 20:15 |
| user____ | Apropos: choose something based on as *few* things as possible. Frameworks, languages. We can see consolidation, some things drop out, you'll be porting soon if not choosing wisely. | 20:15 |
| mason | We had a couple initial guidelines, stuff to avoid: Python, PHP, and we wanted flat files backing it up. | 20:16 |
| mason | The current thought involves PHP and a database. We've tried a bunch so far. | 20:17 |
| user____ | gdbm ? :) | 20:21 |
| mason | relational | 20:21 |
| mason | MediaWiki | 20:21 |
| user____ | sqlite too lite? | 20:22 |
| user____ | sqlite is not going to vanish soon. Android, Firefox and a few other things use it massively. | 20:23 |
| mason | Hadn't considered it, but it's not a bad idea. | 20:23 |
| user____ | Also it is very fast for relatively small databases. | 20:23 |
| user____ | Hah, I wonder what db their wiki uses... https://sqlite.org/forum/wiki_rules | 20:24 |
| user____ | Fossil apparently. | 20:24 |
| user____ | Which is a RCS but has wiki features. | 20:24 |
| user____ | https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/wikitheory.wiki | 20:25 |
| user____ | Well, some aspects of tcl (the language) run on Fossil instead of github/etc and it is nice. I'm on #tcl all the time. | 20:25 |
| luser979 | MediaWiki uses sqlite as db / can use | 21:43 |
| luser979 | https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:SQLite | 21:43 |
| mason | Caveat, sqlite is just a different on-disk binary representation. | 21:52 |
| mason | Library vs service. | 21:53 |
| luser979 | yes, and? | 21:53 |
| mason | Yes, and that makes it not a huge win given the initial goal of flat-file back-end. | 21:53 |
| mason | Something like DBD::CSV would be closer, but I don't know if MediaWiki does DBI. Not really familiar with PHP. | 21:54 |
| luser979 | sqlite3 dbs are single files and portable. there are simple db access tools, free and oss, for all platforms. | 21:54 |
| mason | pgdump output, even MORE portable | 21:55 |
| luser979 | also sqlite3 supports dump to sql src directly via above tools | 21:55 |
| mason | s/pgdump/pg_dump/ | 21:56 |
| mason | but anyway | 21:56 |
| onefang | Maybe #devuan-dev might be a bettor place for this conversation? | 22:14 |
| mason | There's #devuan-wiki as well. | 22:15 |
| onefang | Damn, one I don't have on my list. lol | 23:09 |
| mason | FWIW, I'm about to ask about this! \o/ | 23:12 |
| mason | Imminent. | 23:12 |
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