| mason | rrq: No xfsettings here. No XFS. | 00:16 |
|---|---|---|
| mason | Straight Openbox. | 00:17 |
| mason | s/XFS/XFCE/ | 00:17 |
| fsmithred | !! | 00:24 |
| fsmithred | !!! | 00:25 |
| rrq | ah; ok .. I have xautolock+xtrlock with xfce and found xfsettingsd trying to be clever (not allowing the side montor to go to sleep) | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | !help | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | shit | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | how do I get jr-logbot to talk to me? | 00:25 |
| buZz | jr-logbot: help | 00:25 |
| mason | I've used xautolock before and it was reasonable. I don't remember why I switched most recently. | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | better question: anyone have the link for irc archives? | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | jr-logbot: help | 00:25 |
| buZz | can it even talk? :P | 00:25 |
| fsmithred | jr-logbot, help | 00:26 |
| buZz | in topic : Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | 00:26 |
| fsmithred | not sure. The bot in the old channel had info | 00:26 |
| fsmithred | not conversation. it's not that smart. | 00:26 |
| fsmithred | who reads the topic??? | 00:26 |
| buZz | i do ^_^ | 00:27 |
| buZz | for you! | 00:27 |
| buZz | :) | 00:27 |
| fsmithred | thanks | 00:27 |
| fsmithred | highlighting it is a challenge | 00:27 |
| buZz | i use Screen , ctrl+a [ and ctrl+a ] for copy&paste :) | 00:28 |
| fsmithred | keyboard to the rescue. shift-arrow | 00:28 |
| buZz | :) | 00:29 |
| UsL | gnarface: 4.9.0-15 instead of 4.9.0-16 seems to have solved my issues. | 00:48 |
| gnarface | UsL: good to know. you might want to check the bug reports at debian for known issues, and possibly report one if there isn't any | 01:21 |
| gnarface | UsL: although i guess on ascii maybe it would be better to check if beowulf is in any better shape for you | 01:21 |
| gnarface | (debian probably doesn't care about this kernel anymore but if they just updated it recently maybe they do) | 01:22 |
| UsL | I'm waiting for chimaera : ) If this hunk a junk (2007 latitude d620) have made it this far I can wait a couple of weeks. | 01:22 |
| UsL | well, it's their old stable so some machines must be using it | 01:23 |
| gnarface | some of MY machines are even still using it, but none of them sleep | 01:24 |
| UsL | I guess. But I wouldn't know how to debug or find proper logs for them to look at. You think they'd look at a vague ticket like mine? | 01:24 |
| gnarface | and actually they're all using a custom kernel | 01:24 |
| UsL | yeah, that is also the weird thing. My power settings are set to never sleep. | 01:24 |
| UsL | I see. Yeah. | 01:25 |
| gnarface | well maybe you have the cpu to not sleep but the display/gpu still sleeps | 01:25 |
| gnarface | this could be a dpms problem for all i know | 01:25 |
| gnarface | (none of my machines in question even have a display hooked up) | 01:25 |
| UsL | your guess is probably close to the truth. | 01:26 |
| UsL | I remember I saw someone else talking about this.. I should grep my chatlogs | 01:27 |
| fsmithred | UsL, were you complaining about an old dell that won't wake up from sleep? | 02:09 |
| UsL | cruel, isn't? : ) | 02:10 |
| fsmithred | I ran into it today in beowulf on an old inspiron desktop. | 02:10 |
| UsL | but yeah, xscreensaver never came back and blank screen with no keys working | 02:10 |
| UsL | no magic sysrq key with reisub worked. | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | let the monitor go to sleep, unplugged my wireless mouse to use on the laptop... | 02:11 |
| UsL | no ttys | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | went back to the desktop, plugged in mouse and screen would not come up. | 02:11 |
| UsL | right | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | I could ssh in. | 02:11 |
| UsL | sounds familiar. | 02:11 |
| fsmithred | thought I ran into same when i put it into suspend, but it came right back when I thought to hit the power button. | 02:12 |
| fsmithred | monitor usually wakes up. I don't know if it was related to removing the mouse. | 02:12 |
| UsL | is this is with 4.9.0-16? | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | 4.19.0-17-amd64 | 02:13 |
| fsmithred | beowulf | 02:13 |
| UsL | ah.. | 02:13 |
| UsL | I'm still on ascii | 02:13 |
| UsL | I wouldn't know what logs to look for, nor what to look for if I even found them. | 02:14 |
| UsL | I panicked thinking it was diskerror so I did those checks, but all was okay | 02:15 |
| fsmithred | oh, other difference: I'm using xfce4-power-manager | 02:15 |
| gnarface | i should have asked if you could have a ssh connection open to the laptop to see if it stays alive when the screen/keyboard become unresponsive | 02:16 |
| fsmithred | xscreensaver is disabled but running so that I can lock the screen | 02:16 |
| UsL | I use xscreensaver as well | 02:16 |
| gnarface | i recall this does actually mimic a problem i'm having with one of my pinebooks that goes away if i disable dpms | 02:16 |
| fsmithred | and I haven't had any problems with unlocking it | 02:16 |
| gnarface | but i think in that case it's just the display that never wakes back up; the machine keeps working | 02:17 |
| UsL | right. screen and keys gone. | 02:17 |
| fsmithred | yeah, mine was up but display was off. | 02:17 |
| UsL | only keys that worked was brightness. | 02:18 |
| UsL | so I guess keys worked in a fashion | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | make your black screen brighter? | 02:18 |
| UsL | yep | 02:18 |
| UsL | but no reisub or anything. | 02:18 |
| fsmithred | I didn't think to try dropping to console | 02:19 |
| fsmithred | pretty sure screen was OFF | 02:19 |
| UsL | I had no ttys though, that must have been something else.. Then I had them but couldn't swap to them. Then I suddenly could. | 02:22 |
| UsL | it was eerie to open a terminal and have no prompt. | 02:22 |
| UsL | no input. Just blank terminal window. Like, wth do i do now? : D | 02:23 |
| UsL | perhaps it's time to let this champ of a laptop to finally sleep for good. I have a hp pro book from 2014 somewhere. Barely used. Just need to pop this ssd into it and upgrade memory. I'll miss this keyboard though. The pro book has the new flat ones. | 02:26 |
| UsL | okay, so just confirming for real that 4.9.0-16 was the culprit. I've had this laptop locked all night and a single tap on the keys brought up the xscreensaver as usual. Not experienced any weirdness at all like the ones I had before. I guess I need to file a bug and try explaining to them. | 12:58 |
| UsL | guess I just remove the new kernel like any other package and then freeze anymore updates to it now. | 13:00 |
| buZz | UsL: for a bug report it would be helpful to reconfirm that installing version X brings the issues | 13:03 |
| UsL | right | 14:31 |
| brocashelm | isn't today when bullseye is officially released and the testing freeze ends? | 16:50 |
| Xenguy | brocashelm, Yes that's the plan as I understand it | 16:56 |
| Xenguy | Too bad they didn't choose yesterday (i.e. Friday the 13th) | 16:56 |
| brocashelm | lol | 16:57 |
| brocashelm | missed opportunity | 16:57 |
| Xenguy | Perhaps they have learned their lesson from bitter experience = ) | 16:57 |
| * Xenguy installs chrony and removes ntpdate (now deprecated) ... | 16:58 | |
| user____ | chrony is written in what? | 16:58 |
| brocashelm | is ntpsec still active? | 16:58 |
| hagbard | sntp also does the trick | 16:58 |
| Xenguy | user____, C | 17:00 |
| Wonka | what about ntpd? | 17:00 |
| Xenguy | Wonka, I think that's the traditional go-to | 17:00 |
| Wonka | good, I'm safe then :) | 17:01 |
| Wonka | to use ntpdate one had to stop ntpd anyway, iirc, and restart it afterwards | 17:01 |
| Xenguy | Interesting, I didn't realize there were so many alternatives for NTP | 17:03 |
| Xenguy | chrony is leaner in size than ntpd, but larger then openntpd | 17:04 |
| user____ | Was ntpd dropped due to license issues? | 17:05 |
| Xenguy | I don't think ntpd was dropped, or perhaps I am not understanding correctly | 17:06 |
| brocashelm | ntpsec's goal is to also improve on ntp code | 17:06 |
| Xenguy | brocashelm, Yeah, it says it is "hardened" etc. | 17:06 |
| user____ | I understand ntpd was authored udel.edu -- what are chrony's author's credentials? | 17:06 |
| * user____ searches hoping not to find Poettering in the contributor list | 17:07 | |
| Xenguy | user____, I chose chrony as it is leaner than ntpd, and seems like a competent implementation | 17:07 |
| Xenguy | The license is GPL2 I believe | 17:07 |
| user____ | This suggests there are many alternatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntpd | 17:07 |
| user____ | And indeed chrony is GPL v2 whereas ntpd is not | 17:08 |
| user____ | aargh /me rubs eyes systemd-timesyncd | 17:09 |
| Xenguy | Good list... fucking Connman wants to dip into everything (e.g. DNS, NTP) | 17:09 |
| user____ | Connman is mini systemd | 17:09 |
| Xenguy | I was gonna say | 17:09 |
| Xenguy | Didn't know about its NTP aspirations until I checked the list you posted | 17:10 |
| brocashelm | didn't know that about connman | 17:11 |
| user____ | At this time, I'd prefer (strongly) to use a ntp implementation which comes from whoever originated upstream, i.e. ntp, i.e. Udelaware and possibly NIST. Not experimental things where I need to track down the author's CV with some difficulty. | 17:11 |
| Xenguy | If I was ever going to use connman, I'd make sure to curtail it's 'aspirations' by taming its configuration | 17:11 |
| user____ | I've got my eyes on OpenBSD's OpenNTPD and on securentpd | 17:11 |
| user____ | https://www.ntpsec.org/ I meant this | 17:12 |
| Xenguy | chrony seems like my sweet spot, but I will test it empirically for awhile and see how it performs | 17:13 |
| brocashelm | yeah, that's what i use | 17:13 |
| brocashelm | (ntpsec to be exact) | 17:13 |
| user____ | ntpsec is BSD/MIT licensed and the credentials seem okay to me. I am not an authority. | 17:13 |
| brocashelm | developed by esr, who is the rms of open-source | 17:15 |
| user____ | Among others, there's a longer list. | 17:16 |
| user____ | gpsd was esr's I think, ntpsec is a joint project. | 17:17 |
| brocashelm | ah yeah, he's just the main guy | 17:17 |
| brocashelm | http://catb.org/~esr/software.html | 17:18 |
| user____ | and chrony has one Red Hat man on board, Miroslav... I wonder if his office is within contamination range from Poettering's ... :) | 17:18 |
| brocashelm | here's a list of all of eric's software projects | 17:18 |
| brocashelm | oh boy | 17:18 |
| user____ | Well Richard C, the other designer of chrony, says he is a wireless modem designer, that is a valid credential. At 1st sight. | 17:20 |
| user____ | And yes we have experimental features from Miroslav. Search for "polling" in this thread https://github.com/openil/linuxptp/issues/5 | 17:22 |
| golinux | Yes. Bullseye has been released! Announced on FDN | 17:29 |
| user____ | What is Bullseye in Devuan terms? | 17:29 |
| golinux | Base for Chimaera. | 17:29 |
| golinux | Someone asked that OT above and following conversation was then OT also. | 17:30 |
| user____ | I don't follow. Sorry for the noise anyway. | 17:30 |
| golinux | Chimaera is based on Debian Bullseye. | 17:31 |
| user____ | Got that. | 17:31 |
| golinux | So now we can contemplate officially releasing Chimaera . | 17:31 |
| golinux | Will be good to get it out the door in record time . . . | 17:32 |
| user____ | Is upgrading from Beowulf to Chimera a problem usually? | 17:32 |
| brocashelm | nice! | 17:35 |
| brocashelm | in this chat, i have read that upgrading between two debian/devuan releases is even easier than before, so highly unlikely to run into issues as long as you follow instructions | 17:36 |
| brocashelm | last year, i upgraded from beowulf to chimaera, and then chimaera to ceres | 17:36 |
| brocashelm | it was hassle-free. just best to drop to shell and run the apt commands there | 17:37 |
| user____ | Of course. Problem is, I am a bit lazy with updates, so I'll have to update Beowulf 1st and that will take a while or three. | 17:38 |
| user____ | Any problems with data loss in $HOME? | 17:38 |
| golinux | There will be official installation disks when we release. | 17:38 |
| brocashelm | no data loss from what i've gathered. of course, always back up your whole system before doing a distro upgrade/switch | 17:40 |
| user____ | Yes. I need to back up 20GB or so, not too bad. | 17:42 |
| user____ | Please remind me, how do I get a complete package list on an installed Beowulf? | 17:42 |
| brocashelm | the only thing to keep an eye out for is dependency issues, especially if you upgrade from beowulf to chimaera (because of python2-dependent packages such as wicd not being available via the repository) | 17:42 |
| user____ | Yes, I am using wicd. Will see how that goes when I get there. | 17:43 |
| brocashelm | apt list | 17:43 |
| golinux | Thanks for getting back ON topic.:) | 17:43 |
| user____ | ;) it happens sometimes | 17:43 |
| brocashelm | :) | 17:43 |
| golinux | wicd is gone in Chimaera due to python2 | 17:43 |
| user____ | 89025 packages installed on Beo. Is this average? | 17:44 |
| brocashelm | sorry, i meant apt list --installed | 17:44 |
| user____ | sigh. 3021 is more reasonable... | 17:45 |
| golinux | I have 1983 installed | 17:45 |
| brocashelm | bloat! | 17:45 |
| brocashelm | jk | 17:45 |
| user____ | Are you not a developer? | 17:45 |
| user____ | >> golinux | 17:45 |
| brocashelm | i got 1825 on this machine, but the one with the lowest is 1759 | 17:46 |
| golinux | I play with colors not much with code other than html and theming stuff | 17:46 |
| brocashelm | after serious combing through orphaned packages and other packages i had no use for | 17:46 |
| brocashelm | if not for some kde software, i'd have less packages (by 150) | 17:47 |
| user____ | apt list --installed|wc -l -> 3021; apt list --installed|grep -v automatic|wc -l -> 705 | 17:48 |
| golinux | (Didn't stay ON topic for long . . .) | 17:48 |
| * golinux needs some b'fast. | 17:49 | |
| rkta | just rebooted to chimaera after upgrade. During the upgrade X crashed and I had to ctrl+alt+sysrq+r to get my keyboard back. Besides that no problems so far. | 17:50 |
| brocashelm | i recommend deborphan/orphaner (with --guess-all option) if you want to trim down your package list | 17:50 |
| user____ | What does that do? | 17:51 |
| brocashelm | deborphan is for listing all orphaned (not needed by your distro) packages that could be safely removed for sanitation | 17:52 |
| * fluffywolf also needs breakfast, so follows golinux to her kitchen to see what's cooking | 17:52 | |
| user____ | deborphan is rather dangerous when used with option -d | 18:07 |
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