gour | morning. i understand that devuan's stable release is a bit behind the debian one, but wonder if Ceres does follow Sid closely? | 09:25 |
---|---|---|
gnarface | yes, ceres should be very close as it is unaltered | 09:33 |
gnarface | and testing is only "behind" in the sense that it will break just as quickly | 09:33 |
gnarface | to be clear | 09:33 |
gnarface | don't confuse a couple hours of build time delay for a couple months' delay fixing enough bugs to call it "stable" officially | 09:34 |
gnarface | they're not the same source of delay | 09:34 |
gnarface | the latter will vary more wildly | 09:35 |
gour | ok, i plan to replace sid on my desktop machine with ceres and looking forward to try asap some pkgs currently in experimental (evolution, thunderbird) to decide on which mailer (providing ability to sync my contacts/calendars) to settle | 09:38 |
gnarface | keep in mind, due to this, things might break on ceres that didn't break on sid | 10:00 |
gnarface | something just did actually and i don't know if it has been fixed yet | 10:01 |
gnarface | i think it was debianutils | 10:04 |
gnarface | not sure | 10:04 |
gour | gnarface: ahh, hopefully not so often...i still prefer having a bit newer packages | 10:17 |
gnarface | well there will be chimera-backports if there aren't already | 11:08 |
gour | maybe i should just install devuan and then wait for experimental --> ceres migration on it | 11:13 |
gnarface | well what i would recommend doing is just using beowulf with the beowulf-backports kernel for a little longer until chimera is stable, then upgrade | 11:20 |
gnarface | jumping to ceres might or might not meet your expectations | 11:21 |
gnarface | because it is usually fine, as you presumed, but i heard very recently it's not fine right now | 11:22 |
gnarface | so, unlucky timing on your part | 11:22 |
gnarface | most the time, if there's something newer you actually need, it's in backports | 11:23 |
gnarface | nvidia drivers for example | 11:23 |
gnarface | and kernel 5.10 | 11:23 |
gour | hmm..i'm using ati driver, do not bother about kernel, not sure about gnucash, iow. 4.4 vs 4.6 | 11:25 |
gnarface | i would check beowulf-backports for it | 11:26 |
gnarface | oh i see | 11:27 |
gnarface | 4.4 is the backports one | 11:27 |
gnarface | yea i dunno either | 11:27 |
gour | if gnucash will run fine, i might stay on stable for some time before jumping to ceres....what about runit experience? hopefully it's the same (experience). my netbook is on the ceres, but i'm not updating regularly and it's fine | 11:28 |
gnarface | if runit is working for you on sid it should be fine on ceres too | 11:28 |
gnarface | the only complaint i've heard about runit was incomplete startup scripts, which wouldn't be different between the two | 11:29 |
gnarface | i can't guarantee it would be identical in beowulf too, but if there are any differences in beowulf they're likely fixes debian doesn't have | 11:29 |
gnarface | that isn't one of the more widely used inits though | 11:30 |
gnarface | i can't be confident i've heard every problem about it | 11:30 |
gour | gnarface: i use runit on devuan-powered netbook, debian/sid is (still) on systemd :-( | 11:30 |
gnarface | oh i thought you were saying you had managed to get debian to use it at whatever cost | 11:31 |
gour | well, i practically use just few services like ntp, apcupsd, taskd...nothing fancy | 11:31 |
gour | no, if gnucash (4.4) on beowulf can read my current 4.6 files, then i could install beowulf and wait for ceres until it gets more stable | 11:33 |
gnarface | if you already have 4.6 files you have to import i wouldn't risk it | 12:02 |
gnarface | i don't know though | 12:02 |
* gour is rewatching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_AIw9bGogo while waiting for an answer in #gnucash in regard of possible compatibility issues | 12:29 | |
gour | i'm advised to use 4.6 via e.g. flatpak release...so elt me finish watching the video then i'm going to install devuan on my desktop as well | 12:46 |
furrymcgee | I think nix is the better than flatpak | 13:16 |
gour | ok, i'm going to do devuan install on my main machine...see you later | 14:01 |
seerecursion[m] | I would just use an appimage. A lot easier to manage than flatpak (chmod +x and you are good to go) | 14:20 |
gnarface | well is there a reason the ceres one can't be compiled? is that known for sure? | 14:20 |
seerecursion[m] | The only thing is that some projects are still not making their own appimage bins, so you depend on third party stuff | 14:21 |
gnarface | maybe it wouldn't be hard to backport... | 14:21 |
seerecursion[m] | Maybe I will make a PKGBUILD to put in the MPR | 14:21 |
seerecursion[m] | It is easy to convert them from Arch to Deb | 14:22 |
Guest78 | I have a problem with my system sudenly failing to properly detect mouse click. | 15:09 |
Guest78 | It works in a way, that it randomly detect a constantly pushed left mouse click. | 15:11 |
Guest78 | I had no such issue some time ago. How do I fix this? | 15:11 |
Guest78 | This isn't a mouse related problem. | 15:11 |
Guest78 | The mouse itself isn't an issue. | 15:11 |
Guest78 | And this problem stops after a restart, but It can repeat again, in an unpredictable manner. | 15:12 |
Guest78 | Could somebody help? | 15:13 |
gnarface | Guest78: is this with wine? | 15:21 |
Guest78 | gnarface: I am not using wine when this happens. | 15:23 |
Guest78 | But it is installed. | 15:23 |
gnarface | firefox? | 15:23 |
Guest78 | gnarface Yes. I have it usually turned on all the time. | 15:24 |
gnarface | have you tried closing firefox when it happens, instead of rebooting? | 15:25 |
Guest78 | Didn't yet. | 15:25 |
gnarface | there's a possibility for this to happen with certain programs if you hold the mouse button down while dragging it out of the window | 15:25 |
Guest78 | It happened sometimes to start working again without rebooting, or closing the firefox, though. | 15:25 |
Guest78 | In an unpredictable manner, though. | 15:26 |
gnarface | yes, you would in theory be able to make it work again by holding the mouse button down while dragging it back into the window, i think | 15:26 |
gnarface | or even just clicking it that window again once grabbing focus | 15:26 |
gnarface | this could be exacerbated by focus settings | 15:26 |
gnarface | it might be a bug too, but what you're describing i've seen with expected functionality | 15:27 |
Guest78 | gnarface This happened nearly in every case when the firefox worked in the background though. I was on the other active window. | 15:27 |
Guest78 | Does it matters? | 15:27 |
gnarface | hmm, yea i think it would matter | 15:27 |
gnarface | but we still have to find some instigating cause | 15:27 |
gnarface | any ideas how to recreate it? | 15:28 |
Guest78 | Also, I changed my connection n-m to the connman, before it started to happen. | 15:29 |
Guest78 | Don't know it could be related. | 15:29 |
Guest78 | if it could be related.* | 15:29 |
fsmithred | shouldn't be. I've changed back and forth between n-m and connman a few times in chimaera. | 15:29 |
Guest78 | I don't know how to recreate it. It just randomly happens to me. | 15:30 |
Guest78 | I also installed the macchanger package in that time. It seems to not work properly, but it was closed when this happened. | 15:31 |
gnarface | i mean, it's worth mentioning this does match the pattern of hardware failure normal for mouse buttons with piezo switches | 15:33 |
fsmithred | or even the usb port | 15:33 |
fsmithred | tail -f /var/log/messages | 15:33 |
gnarface | well he implied it's only the mouse button, and movement still works | 15:34 |
fsmithred | and then wiggle the usb plug to see if it disconnects | 15:34 |
gnarface | movement still works, right Guest78? | 15:34 |
fsmithred | oh | 15:34 |
fsmithred | only fix I've ever done for failing mouse button is new mouse. | 15:34 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.409241] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: Applying debug destination EXTERNAL_DRAM | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.488517] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: Applying debug destination EXTERNAL_DRAM | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.489985] iwlwifi 0000:03:00.0: FW already configured (0) - re-configuring | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.527291] wlan0: deauthenticated from 18:01:f1:6f:9a:4e (Reason: 7=CLASS3_FRAME_FROM_NONASSOC_STA) | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.671711] wlan0: authenticate with 18:01:f1:6f:9a:4e | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.674017] wlan0: send auth to 18:01:f1:6f:9a:4e (try 1/3) | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.680443] wlan0: authenticated | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.683419] wlan0: associate with 18:01:f1:6f:9a:4e (try 1/3) | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.703741] wlan0: RX AssocResp from 18:01:f1:6f:9a:4e (capab=0x431 status=0 aid=6) | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Sep 4 15:00:34 devuan kernel: [12667.705654] wlan0: associated | 15:35 |
Guest78 | tail -f /var/log/messages output. | 15:35 |
gnarface | it'll keep updating as the file updates | 15:35 |
gnarface | watch it for mouse errors | 15:35 |
gnarface | that's all wifi stuff | 15:35 |
fsmithred | it's dangerous to post multiple lines. Sometime the bot will boot you. | 15:35 |
brocashelm | use dpaste.org | 15:35 |
gnarface | any chance to use a different mouse too? | 15:35 |
Guest78 | Thanks. I will use that. | 15:36 |
fsmithred | Guest78, if the mouse plug is loose, you will see usb disconnect and connect messages | 15:36 |
fsmithred | when you move it | 15:36 |
gnarface | if you have a second mouse to test though that would help to isolate the behavior | 15:36 |
fsmithred | you won't need to paste them The messages are clear. | 15:36 |
Guest78 | It doesn't seem to be that loose. | 15:36 |
fsmithred | ok | 15:36 |
fsmithred | well, don't go by feel | 15:36 |
Guest78 | Also, the mouse whel and right button works fine. | 15:37 |
Guest78 | whell* | 15:37 |
Guest78 | And mouse movement still works when this happens. | 15:37 |
Guest78 | Only the left button was affected. | 15:38 |
gnarface | can you restart your window manager by hotkey? | 15:38 |
gnarface | or by keyboard, anyway? | 15:38 |
gnarface | that might work too and save time | 15:39 |
Guest78 | I can try with a different mouse, but I doubt if it would do any difference as the restarting fixes this, and reconnecting mouse does not. | 15:39 |
gnarface | understood, just try restarting only the window manager too | 15:39 |
* gour is greeting everyone from a fresh ceres installation | 15:39 | |
gnarface | that's a good test for both cases | 15:39 |
gnarface | gour: congrats | 15:40 |
gour | ...still restoring data and tweakign everything | 15:40 |
Guest78 | I can restart the window manager. What shortcuts do I use for that? | 15:41 |
fsmithred | alt-prntscreen-k | 15:41 |
Guest78 | It would be only a temporary and symptomatic treatment , though. | 15:41 |
gnarface | fsmithred: do we still need to pin back debianutils to some version in ceres? | 15:41 |
fsmithred | maybe | 15:42 |
fsmithred | that was a discussion in -dev for building packages | 15:42 |
fsmithred | few days ago | 15:42 |
Guest13 | Its me again. I just tried that shortcut for restarting the window manager. | 15:45 |
Guest13 | I will try that when this issue happens again, if it needed for the "test", and message you about this. | 15:47 |
ham5urg | I debootstraped a Devuan and want to change the keyboard-layout without using dpkg-reconfigure (to script / automatize it). I looked at many sites but no informations about scripting. I learned that locales are not a keyboard layout, for what are locales used? | 19:32 |
fsmithred | ham5urg, look in /etc/default/ | 19:41 |
fsmithred | XKBLAYOUT="us" | 19:42 |
ham5urg | http://paste.debian.net/1210408/ | 19:43 |
ham5urg | But my keyboard is still in US-layout | 19:43 |
fsmithred | instead of 'dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration | 19:43 |
fsmithred | maybe reboot is needed? | 19:44 |
ham5urg | The console has the correct layout now. But inside Gnome it hasn't | 19:46 |
fsmithred | hm | 19:46 |
fsmithred | I think I can try something. | 19:46 |
ham5urg | The Gnome Language is German now. But still the keyboard has not switched. Hm | 19:47 |
ham5urg | Indeed, the Gnome Settings do show the language EN. | 19:48 |
fsmithred | keyboard layout settings in gnome? | 19:49 |
ham5urg | Yes | 19:49 |
ham5urg | How can Gnome use the console settings for their settings without user interaction? | 19:49 |
fsmithred | I just booted a live-iso with gnome in Italian. | 19:49 |
ham5urg | ok | 19:49 |
fsmithred | unfortunately, I'm greeted with a long message and some choices I can't understand. | 19:49 |
fsmithred | maybe I'll just press ENTER | 19:50 |
fsmithred | anyway, this relied on whatever the live-config scripts do with locale and keyboard-layout | 19:50 |
ham5urg | Yes | 19:51 |
ham5urg | I will try to ask gnome-people | 19:51 |
fsmithred | the message is something about new language | 19:51 |
rs | i recently explored modifying the keyboard system wide recently via /usr/share/ but found they wouldn't stick. i was remapping caps lock to hyper. it worked but until i figure out how to disable the toggle functionality those mods have failed | 19:52 |
ham5urg | Anyway, thanks for help | 19:52 |
fsmithred | oh shit. It's complaining about the name of the user's home. I have no idea what that's about. | 19:52 |
fsmithred | ok, I got us keyboard with Italian lang. In xfce I get the same keyboard layout as the locale. | 19:54 |
fsmithred | in live-isos made the same way as this one | 19:54 |
ham5urg | Looks like Gnome uses it's own settings and is out of touch of the console settings. | 19:55 |
fsmithred | that's what I thought, and I not surprised. | 20:07 |
fsmithred | I'm | 20:07 |
rwp | This won't fix GNOME (what could? rm maybe?) but in my X startup customization I use: setxkbmap -layout us -option compose:menu -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp | 20:11 |
rwp | That sets the base state. Followed by an xmodmap config file for more customization: xmodmap .xmodmap | 20:11 |
rwp | It's the "-layout us" which may point to "-layout de" as being useful for your purposes. | 20:12 |
ham5urg | Gnome goes the Android-way in my eyes | 20:19 |
ham5urg | For what are locales used? | 20:38 |
ham5urg | Some sort of fonts? | 20:39 |
blockhead | i beleive date format settings also? | 20:41 |
fsmithred | locales is for setting the system language | 20:42 |
fsmithred | tzdata sets the time zone | 20:42 |
rwp | ham5urg, locales are used for localization of user messages. By userland programs. Such as when "ls" says "No such file or directory" in C.POSIX but German in de_DE.UTF-8 | 20:43 |
rwp | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization | 20:44 |
rwp | That's where i18n and l10n abbreviations emerge from because i18n is 'i' 18 characters 'n' and much shorter. Same for l10n and localization. | 20:44 |
ham5urg | Do programs (like ls) do use some library to format their output according to the active locales? | 20:46 |
fsmithred | yeah, they drop files in /usr/share/locale/ | 20:46 |
rwp | Yes. See the man page for gettext(3) "man 3 gettext". That's used in programs for the translations. | 20:49 |
ham5urg | Thanks guys, I got an understanding of locales. | 20:51 |
fsmithred | also see /etc/locale.gen which shows which languages are configured or not. (uncommented or not) | 20:56 |
rwp | And if looking at /etc/locale.gen directly then also see "man locale-gen" which acts upon that configuration. | 20:59 |
* Tenkawa notes dpkg-reconfigure locales is a nice way to show/reconfigure that list too | 21:24 | |
Tenkawa | and select default | 21:24 |
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