libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2021-09-17

ibanja_I am trying to install falkon.  I am getting "falkon : Depends: libkf5wallet-bin but it is not going to be installed02:48
ibanja_" followed by  "... you have held broken packages."02:48
ibanja_I've tried the standard 'apt install -f' 'dist-upgrade'... tried aptitude... now synaptic pkg manager says it wants to remove lvm2 to fix dependency issues...02:48
ibanja_any ideas?02:49
fluffywolfwhat does aptitude try doing?02:50
ibanja_this is aptitudes output: https://paste.debian.net/1212058/02:53
ibanja_aptitude why-not falkon output: https://paste.debian.net/1212059/02:53
fluffywolfok, that's going to take someone who knows more about those packages than I do to help.02:54
ibanja_it's a puzzler... I noticed, on the why-not output that all the recommends and provides are i386. I show a 4.19.0-17-amd64 kernel. Is that strange?02:56
fluffywolfthe why-not looks incorrect and/or useless.02:57
fluffywolfyou usually end up with i386 stuff on amd64 when you install wine, as wine needs the 32-bit libraries to run 32-bit programs.02:57
ibanja_OK... I did install i386 wine02:58
Hydragyrumwhy-not makes it look like a multilib thing with few packages, the aptitude install solution implies wine is the problem02:58
fluffywolfwhat does "aptitude install falkon wine32:i386" give?03:00
ibanja_aptitude install falkon wine32:i386 gives the same basic output as just trying to install falkon...03:01
ibanja_also, I have the same wine packages on another computer that had no problelms installing falkon.03:01
fluffywolfdoes it still suggest uninstalling it?03:02
ibanja_yes03:02
fluffywolftry "r wine32:i386 uninst" and "n" at the prompt03:02
ibanja_maybe I should just try it.. and then try installing wine again03:02
* fluffywolf tries to remember aptitude commands03:02
ibanja_fluffywolf: not sure what you mean03:04
fluffywolfwhen aptitude asks you if you want to accept that solution, enter that r command, followed by n for no.03:05
fluffywolf(if I remember my aptitude correctly)03:05
ibanja_oh03:06
fluffywolfr is reject, saying you will reject any solution that involves doing something, then the package, and uninst...  so you're saying it has to keep thinking until it finds a solution that doesn't involve uninstalling that package.03:06
ibanja_I just went with the aptitude first suggestion which unistalled 32bit wine... then re-installed the wine and everything is working fine now03:09
ibanja_Thanks for the help03:09
fluffywolfaptitude can be very useful and very frustrating at the same time.  heh.03:13
ibanja_agreed03:15
Guest11rwp Hi! I just booted the live system version of Devuan Chimaera, as I was asked, and this is the dmesg output on it > https://pastebin.com/0Y05Lh8E14:11
Guest11Also, I would like to report, I had once more, a simillar, to previously reported my me, mouse input issue, but there also happened to be some problem with the keyboard control, like the caps lock once turned on couldn't be turned off, and the issue didn't end after a while, as it happened before14:14
Guest11That was on my normal system, not the live.14:14
Guest11I will provide dmesg output I did after having that issue too.14:15
Guest11Also, it behaved in a strange way, where the left mouse click was detected when I clicked on some places, but not while on the others.14:16
Guest11Like, I could left click on the desktop area just well, and in some windows, but the window outer border with close, maximize, and minimize button didn't react to the left click.14:18
Guest11And there were other areas which didn't react, and other that could be clicked on.14:18
Guest11Dmesg done after the problem with input > https://pastebin.com/N8a68naF14:22
Guest11Please write what you think could cause those 2 issues and how do you think it could be fixed. I will quit now to boot from my default installation, but read the answers in the logs, and continue after a while, if there will be any more needed information.14:27
gnarfaceGuest11: not really sure but the mce hardware error thing rings a bell maybe look into disabling that14:50
gnarfaceGuest11: maybe acpi too14:50
Guest11gnarface Could you write more about that first? Disabling what?14:54
gnarfacei don't recall clearly sorry14:54
gnarfaceyou'll have to search online about it14:54
gnarfacemake sure it's not overheating too14:54
gnarfaceis that nvidia hardware?  if it's nvidia hardware you may need the non-free drivers14:55
gnarfacenot sure if they'd be on the livecd by default or not14:55
Guest11I use them. I installed them.14:55
Guest11Those are not installed by default.14:56
gnarfacedid you install the cpu microcode package too?15:02
gnarfacesame mce error stuff on both pastes15:03
gnarface"MDS CPU bug present and SMT on..."15:03
Guest11gnarface I did install intell-microcode and firmware-misc-nonfree15:03
gnarfacecheck that part out and search up the relevance15:03
Guest11I have also amd64-microcode, although I guess it is not needed.15:04
gnarfacenot if it's an intel brand cpu15:06
Guest11It is an Intel brand cpu.15:07
gnarfacethere is a url mentioned in the second paste15:15
gnarfaceit might have some hints15:15
gnarfacenear the mce error15:15
gnarfaceright after it by a few lines15:15
Guest11You mean this: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/hw-vuln/mds.html ?15:16
gnarfaceyea15:16
Guest11My /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds contains "Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable"15:19
gnarfaceseems like it could be a known bug and you need a patch15:19
gnarfaceseems like you might also need to change a bios setting in the mean time15:19
gnarfacethat might be controllable by a kernel command-line parameter or something else too though not sure15:20
gnarfacejust seems like a bug i remember from before15:20
GyrosGeierdoes it matter?15:34
GyrosGeierbasically, the bug allows data exfiltration between processes15:34
GyrosGeierthat is a problem only if you have multiple users15:34
GyrosGeierand possibly if you run untrusted code15:34
Guest11Then it shouldn't cause any problems with Wi-Fi, or mouse and keyboard input, right?15:40
Guest11gnarface: what bios setting did you mean?15:43
gnarfaceGuest11: something to do with smt15:46
gnarfaceprobably wouldn't be called that though15:46
gnarfacealso maybe acpi15:46
GyrosGeierSMT is also called HyperThreading15:51
GyrosGeieri.e. multiple threads sharing one CPU core15:52
GyrosGeierand, by extension, cache15:52
Guest11I have it enabled.15:52
GyrosGeierthere are a few buggy generations of Intel CPUs that don't isolate the threads appropriately15:53
Guest11It is needed for a higher performance. Isn't it? I wouldn't want to lose it.'15:53
GyrosGeierexactly15:53
GyrosGeierthe point in having SMT is that memory accesses take a long time from the CPU's point of view15:53
GyrosGeierso every time a program reads from memory, it stalls there15:53
GyrosGeierthen the CPU is idle15:54
GyrosGeierso they pack two processes onto the same CPU, and if one is stalled, the other can progress15:54
Guest11I will just change that acpi for now. I guess this could cause some issues.15:54
GyrosGeierthe problem is that if one of them is untrusted code, and the other is some tool handling sensitive material, the shared cache allows stealing data15:55
GyrosGeierthat is what it's complaining about15:55
Guest11I understand. I don't see how would that have anything to do with a Wi-Fi and input issues.15:55
gnarfaceit was just in close proximity to that mce error15:56
gnarfacei thought maybe the kernel could have a bug with the implementation if it's a very new cpu model15:56
gnarfacethere's a acpi error about some table value mismatch or something in the chimera one too15:57
gnarfaceother than that i didn't see anything really suspicious so i just suggested fiddling with those to see if they have any affect on the system stability15:58
gnarfacethe graphical freeze up seems like an xorg issue but we only see cpu and acpi errors here15:58
gnarfacei'm sure if you stick around long enough someone else might have better ideas15:59
Guest10So I changed the sata operation setting from AHCI to "RAID ON", and the system couldn't even boot, because of some errors16:06
Guest11I am using both "Guest10" and "Guest11" now, to be clear.16:08
Guest11Is there some file where are those system messages from the previous boot registered?16:09
Guest11Oh, acpi... I mistook those things.16:10
GyrosGeierlol16:13
GyrosGeierthe SATA controller can be in legacy, AHCI or RAID mode16:14
GyrosGeierRAID mode is pretty much like AHCI except it uses a different PCI ID that says that the user configured multiple disks to work together16:15
GyrosGeierunless you have configured that, RAID mode will not work for you16:15
Guest11I had some bugs with no drive detected, while trying to install a system from usb, while on RAID mode, so I kept this on AHCI.16:16
GyrosGeieryes16:16
Guest11It don't boot the system correctly now while it is on RAID.16:16
GyrosGeierRAID mode will not report any unconfigured drives16:16
Guest11So I should try to disable the ACPI? If so, where can I do this?16:18
gnarfacedoes the livecd have a save mode boot entry still?16:41
gnarfaceif Guest11 comes back have him try it16:42
gnarfaceunless he figured it out16:42
shapeshifter_Hello, I got the '...your request is spam.' when trying to register.17:13
golinuxshapeshifter_ was too impatient . . .17:30
karjalaDoes Devuan Beowulf have the same versions of packages as Debian Buster?17:48
n4dirsomewhere is a side which explains the relation, the way debian packages are used in devuan, but i can't find it. The short and amateur answer is: yes (besides what is specific to devuan)17:55
n4dirin other words: debian packages  are used as are.17:56
golinuxkarjala: On this page the is a section on "Packages" https://www.devuan.org/os/explore18:00
golinuxthe > there18:00
golinuxThis post is also informative: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=319218:04
n4diri probably meant that forum post18:04
karjalaThanks all.18:51
skinnyboy_Hey21:22
harrydus-matrixHo21:25
skinnyboy_Hello I just installed windows 10, as I need to dual boot to continue my classes with windows, I expose my situation, I have installed Windows 10 with UEFI/GPT, I have 3 partitions one system(efi partition), c: and recovery, what do I have to do to install devuan with UEFI/GPT and full disk encryption on the same disk?21:25
GyrosGeierdepends21:26
skinnyboy_My thought is to first do everything in a virtual machine to see if it works, but my approach is to reduce the c: partition of windows, start with the live usb, encrypt with luks that partition and then install the bootloader on the windows system partition, that will work or how I could do it, I'm Spanish and I can not find anything useful.21:27
GyrosGeierif Windows is encrypted (which it likely is) you need to shrink it with the Windows Volume Manager21:27
skinnyboy_Windows is not encrypted i didnt use TPM and bitlocker21:27
GyrosGeierokay, then you can also shrink it from gparted21:27
skinnyboy_I dont care if someone see my NTFS partition cause ill use it just for the lulzs21:27
GyrosGeierthe bootloader must be an EFI bootloader as well, and it goes into the ESP21:28
GyrosGeierso the EFI system partition is shared21:28
skinnyboy_GyrosGeier Can I take advantage of the one created by windows?21:29
GyrosGeieryes21:29
GyrosGeieryou must, even :)21:29
GyrosGeierEFI supports exactly one ESP per drive21:29
skinnyboy_I'm all ears :)21:29
GyrosGeierWindows uses a 100 MB ESP, so that rules out systemd-boot21:29
skinnyboy_I want use reFind21:30
skinnyboy_Idk if i can.21:30
GyrosGeierwhich is not good in this case, because you need to load the kernel and initrd from something the EFI system can access21:30
GyrosGeierso probably grub-efi with a separate, unencrypted /boot partition21:30
skinnyboy_Perfect, so grub-efix64, boot partition unencrypted and luks in the rest of space?21:31
GyrosGeieryes21:31
skinnyboy_and grub installed on efi windows partition?21:31
GyrosGeier/boot needs enough space for three kernel+initrd sets at least21:32
skinnyboy_1GB?21:32
GyrosGeier500 MB is plenty21:32
skinnyboy_Thanks so much im going to try it on vm and ill come back, thanks so much brother !21:32
GyrosGeier100 MB also works, so you could use the ESP here with systemd-boot, but it's tight21:33
GyrosGeierI've tried that, and I get update errors sometimes21:33
GyrosGeierthe advantage of having the kernel in the ESP is that it's one fewer partition21:33
skinnyboy_I am relieved to know that people also want to install in UEFI/GPT mode things.21:34
GyrosGeierif reinstalling Windows is an option, you can also pre-partition from an USB stick before installing Windows21:34
GyrosGeier500 MB ESP, one partition for Windows, and then the Linux setup21:34
skinnyboy_Ill try it but i know that im gonna break things xD21:35
GyrosGeierpoint the Windows installer at the partition you reserved for it, and it will split that in system and recovery partitions21:35
GyrosGeierand it will reuse the ESP21:35
GyrosGeier(which needs to be formatted at this point, just normal FAT32)21:35
skinnyboy_GyrosGeier Ill send u an image what i have alredy21:36
GyrosGeierthe nice thing is that Windows and Linux can then be selected from the BIOS boot screen21:36
GyrosGeierwhich I use on my laptop to boot Windows by default21:36
GyrosGeierless hassle at airports21:36
skinnyboy_https://share.riseup.net/#PXe7AliN-Ua2mmX-M0WxZA21:37
GyrosGeieryes, that's the default setup21:37
skinnyboy_now ill resize c:21:37
GyrosGeieralso, these are basic partitions, so they don't use the Windows Volume Manager21:37
skinnyboy_And ill do what u said it before21:38
GyrosGeierso shrinking them will not work from Windows, but only from gparted21:38
skinnyboy_I got to make gparted live?21:38
skinnyboy_aiight i got ventoy so all good21:38
GyrosGeierit should be included on the installer21:39
GyrosGeiershrinking Windows during installation is a common task21:39
skinnyboy_I forget it21:39
GyrosGeierokay21:39
GyrosGeiergotta go21:39
GyrosGeierit is Friday 10 PM and I'm still at work21:39
skinnyboy_https://share.riseup.net/#5pTlVORP-IOyj8Ebh2JUIQ21:41
skinnyboy_Thanks bro21:41
skinnyboy_here is friday 21:4121:41
skinnyboy_Can i delete the efi partition on windows 10 and create a new one on /boot/EFI but before copying all on that partition?21:58
bltshzzryou might be able to, but windows probably keeps track of the partition of its boot files22:08
fsmithredskinnyboy_, it sounds risky. I would use the existing efi partition. UEFI implementations are all different (don't follow standards)22:08
skinnyboy_But I'm lost, it's a lot of data and I have no knowledge about initrams, efi partitions etc...22:09
bltshzzri'd say you're better off just adding a /boot partition after shrinking the c:\ partition (grub or systemd-boot won't take up too much space on efi)22:09
skinnyboy_I'm reading the arch wiki to see if I get something clear but I'm confused, I mean I know that the efi partition contains .img, which are programs, but if I create a /boot partition in linux without encrypting what do I use it for?22:10
fsmithredI just arrived, so I guess I don't know the situation.22:10
fsmithredthe /boot partition is for kernel and initramfs22:10
skinnyboy_how devuan install this ones?22:10
fsmithredthose are usually unencrypted. It's possible to include /boot in the encrypted root, but kind of involved.22:11
fsmithredwhere is all the data you mentioned? In the windows partition?22:11
skinnyboy_i just installed windows with the default partition layout, and now i want to install devuan dual booting in mode UEFI/GPT22:12
fsmithredshrink the windows partition then boot devuan and install it.22:13
skinnyboy_But i dont know how uefi catch grub and grub catch windows and devuan, cause i dont know nothing about grub and kernel22:13
skinnyboy_ill try it22:13
bltshzzrthey can coexist skinnyboy, but he's worried the 100MB efi partition windows gave him will be too small22:13
fsmithredare you using secure boot?22:13
fsmithred100mb for efi is enough22:13
fsmithredI've made them as small as 64mb22:13
skinnyboy_no i disabled secure boot hibernate and fastboot22:14
fsmithredok, good22:14
fsmithredthat simplifies it22:14
skinnyboy_But im feeling stupid xD22:14
fsmithredif you want it encrypted, you should make a separate /boot partition22:14
skinnyboy_Cause is hard to me to understand low level things22:14
fsmithred500mb is plenty22:14
skinnyboy_Ill study more linux and less programming on java22:15
fsmithredlol22:15
skinnyboy_GNU/Linux*22:15
fsmithredthere are installer guides with pictures. I'll get a link.22:15
skinnyboy_fsmithred Thanks :)22:15
fsmithredhttps://www.devuan.org/os/install22:16
fsmithredthe install guides for beowulf should work fine for chimaera, too.22:16
fsmithreddo a defrag before you shrink the windows partition.22:17
fsmithredskinnyboy_, here's a good reference for uefi: https://rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/index.html22:20
skinnyboy_Yes22:20
skinnyboy_Ill have a dinner22:20
skinnyboy_Im going to download a IRC client and im going to start reading more, and thank so much for all.22:21
skinnyboy_I like so much this distro and is the thing i was looking for22:21
bltshzzranyone know if debootstrap works to install devuan from a live cd environment (probably chimaera)23:16
bltshzzror are there enough differences in the installer / from debian that it wouldn't be great23:16
n4dirI do know that it works, but i forgot how. A quick web search gives results though. If you want someone to confirm those results, you will have to wait23:19
n4dirif it was me i would trust the result from the forum.23:19
bb|hcbhttps://gist.github.com/bbonev/a2737cdb96329edf3e444857920cb32723:23
fsmithredbltshzzr, yes, you can debootstrap devuan from live media. The live isos both have debootstrap installed.23:25
fsmithredbut I think it's easier if you use devuan's debootstrap rather than debian's.23:26
fsmithrednot sure if debian forces you to install systemd. It probably does.23:26
n4dirfsmithred: i think it was you who gave me the exact how to do it from debian, it wasn't hard or such.23:26
bltshzzrthanks for the gist bb|hcb looks like if you use debians it might try and install systemd deps anyways23:27
fsmithredrefracta isos also have devuan debootstrap installed.23:27
bltshzzrdo yall think it'd be easier to switch to openrc after installation or can debootstrap choose a variant23:27
fsmithredI think you get sysvinit with a debootstrap install. But maybe not.23:28
fsmithredin the installer, it comes at the end, right before grub.23:29
bb|hcbI had a problem booting Devuan and someone proposed this way. What I actually did was to install Debian and then converted it; debootstrap is cleaner, though23:29
fsmithredeither way, it's not difficult to switch later.23:29
bltshzzrthen i won't stress too much over it. it's not like i won't have setup to do afterwords anyways23:32
fsmithredjust check to see if it's installed when you chroot. If not, you get to tell it which init to install.23:37

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