junicchi | anyone tried plymouth on devuan? | 01:20 |
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junicchi | wondering if it'd work on my openrc setup | 01:20 |
n4dir | the info on the gentoo wiki seems to be too gentoo specific. Perhaps a bit can be found anyway | 01:25 |
golinux | junicchi: Looks like it's in Chimaera and Ceres https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=plymouth&x=submit But there are parts of it here too: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 01:30 |
junicchi | yeah that's why i'm wondering | 01:58 |
junicchi | it's both on repos and is banned | 01:58 |
junicchi | and seems like no one tried so far | 01:58 |
n4dir | for no other reason but fooling around i have choose openrc on this machine. It seems to work very well (say 1 week later) | 02:03 |
n4dir | boot time is very fast, RAM usage is very good. I don't really fiddle with init systems, so more i can't say | 02:05 |
ham5urg | Have anyone tried kdump? I still have systemfreezes randomly on one of my machines after I switched it to Devuan. I can't locate the problem, neither the logs help me. Anything I can do after freeze is a hard reset. | 12:57 |
sadoon_albader[m | What hardware are you running and what version of devuan? | 12:59 |
ham5urg | Beowulf and the machine is a laptop with i5-8365U | 13:00 |
ham5urg | I tried the standard-kernel as well as the one from the backports | 13:01 |
gnarface | same freeze with both of them? | 13:01 |
ham5urg | 5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 currently | 13:01 |
gnarface | and you memtested it, right? | 13:01 |
ham5urg | yes, same freeze | 13:01 |
ham5urg | yes, memtest was good. | 13:02 |
gnarface | nothing in the logs at all? | 13:02 |
gnarface | not even the xorg log? | 13:03 |
gnarface | the .old one should be the one from the previous run | 13:03 |
gnarface | so if it crashed and you had to hard reboot there should still be an error in there if it was anything to do with the graphical stack | 13:04 |
gnarface | otherwise check /var/log/* | 13:04 |
gnarface | particularly syslog, kern.log and daemon.log | 13:04 |
gnarface | eh i dunno | 13:06 |
ham5urg | Xorg.0.log.old is fine. Yes, I switched over to the console ctrl+alt+f1 and used VIM all day and next day it freezed 3 min after resuming suspend-to-ram. | 13:07 |
ham5urg | I guess it is not X | 13:07 |
gnarface | oh, is it always after a resume from suspend? | 13:07 |
ham5urg | No, can't say that. | 13:07 |
gnarface | which cpu governor are you using? | 13:08 |
gnarface | you might want to try setting it to userspace then setting a static frequency other than the max one | 13:09 |
gnarface | i've had some stability issues associated with the cpu governors under certain types of workloads | 13:10 |
ham5urg | # cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 13:11 |
ham5urg | powersave | 13:11 |
gnarface | hmm, that shouldn't change it either | 13:11 |
ham5urg | When I use Ubuntu, I don't encounter system-freeze. Maybe they use a different governor. The battery lasts longer with Devuan. | 13:12 |
gnarface | upstream default i think is schedutil now | 13:13 |
gnarface | ? | 13:13 |
gnarface | something liek that | 13:13 |
gnarface | i can't imagine powersave would be less stable than any others but it might be worth a try | 13:14 |
ham5urg | # cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors | 13:15 |
ham5urg | performance powersave | 13:15 |
ham5urg | I will try | 13:15 |
gnarface | oh you can get more governors | 13:15 |
gnarface | the kernel modules are installed they just dont' all load by default | 13:15 |
gnarface | find /lib/modules/ -iname 'cpufreq*' | 13:15 |
gnarface | "ondemand" was the previous upstream default i believe | 13:16 |
gnarface | performance would definitely use the most battery | 13:18 |
ham5urg | Seems "performance" is a built-in. All others are available as modules. | 13:18 |
gnarface | it's strange to imagine it would be less stable than powersave, but i guess it would kick the fans in | 13:18 |
gnarface | do you monitor temperatures on this thing? | 13:18 |
ham5urg | No, but it does not get to warm. I mostly type via vim. | 13:20 |
ham5urg | Sometimes a stupid site pushes the browser to warm up the CPU. | 13:20 |
ham5urg | Do I set the governor permanently via GRUB at boot-time? | 13:22 |
gnarface | i think so | 13:23 |
gnarface | i forget the flag | 13:23 |
gnarface | when i bother to change the boot default i usually do it in the kernel build | 13:23 |
ham5urg | I did a modprobe cpufreq_ondemand but in # cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_governors there is still only powersave and performance | 13:25 |
gnarface | hmm, weird | 13:25 |
gnarface | is it for the right kernel? | 13:25 |
gnarface | make sure it loaded | 13:25 |
gnarface | i usually put mine in /etc/modules | 13:25 |
gnarface | but i use the userspace one | 13:25 |
tr-amarsh04 | Is it worth trying a later kernel e.g. linux-image-5.14.0-1-amd64-unsigned 5.14.6-2 | 13:27 |
ham5urg | the modprobe command is successfull, lsmod shows cpufreq_ondemand | 13:27 |
gnarface | it might be worth trying an even newer kernel yea but 5.10 should really be recent enough for this i'd think... | 13:28 |
gnarface | at this point it's between either that or enabling kernel debugging | 13:28 |
gnarface | do we know the whole thing even freezes? could it still be accesible by ssh after the gui freezes? | 13:29 |
gnarface | that would explain a lack of any traces of errors in the log too | 13:30 |
tr-amarsh04 | I like having 2 pc's for that reason, being able to connect via terminal session from one to the other | 13:30 |
gnarface | yea me too but the irony is not lost on me | 13:31 |
tr-amarsh04 | being familiar with the magic sysreq key sequences also helps | 13:33 |
gnarface | i'm still not 100% sure it's not a graphical issue since i've seen that nvidia drivers have an extra last gasp before such lockups that doesn't make it to any logs, and doesn't even make it to the screen unless you enable it by module parameter | 13:35 |
gnarface | trying to connect via ssh or serial terminal, or better yet even having the terminal open and tailing a log file already when it locks up might be informative | 13:36 |
tr-amarsh04 | all good suggestions | 13:36 |
gnarface | i don't know if the other video drivers have a similar option to this one nvidia thing | 13:36 |
gnarface | no_console_suspend=1 | 13:37 |
gnarface | kernel parameter actually | 13:37 |
gnarface | not module parameter | 13:37 |
gnarface | i thought it was nvidia specific but now i'm not sure | 13:37 |
gnarface | but i know if you get an absolute blackscreen lockup that will at least let you see on screen the final words of the video card | 13:38 |
gnarface | in just this one corner case on some nvidia card i was having trouble with | 13:38 |
gnarface | (the ones with extra ram are never as well supported as the base models) | 13:38 |
ham5urg | The next freeze I will ping this thing, the ping works if not freezed. | 13:41 |
gnarface | yea but then if you're running ssh you can get back in and find out what's wrong maybe | 13:41 |
gnarface | restart xorg and it magically comes back sometimes | 13:41 |
gnarface | sometimes you gotta reload video modules | 13:42 |
gnarface | sometimes it's still too far out to lunch and needs a cold boot but at least then you know what's wrong because the offending module actually does lock up when you try to modprobe -r it | 13:42 |
ham5urg | Ok, I will install ssh | 13:42 |
gnarface | or sometimes dmesg has output that doesn't make it to the filesystem | 13:42 |
ham5urg | ok, works | 13:44 |
gnarface | a really useful one just in case you don't know is tail -f [log] | 13:45 |
gnarface | it just follows the end of a log file on screen for you | 13:46 |
ham5urg | Any modprobe cpufreq* does not change the list of available governors. | 13:46 |
gnarface | that's weird, i'm forgetting something... if you put them in /etc/modules then reboot does it work? | 13:47 |
gnarface | do you have acpi_cpufreq loaded? | 13:47 |
gnarface | i started loading that one too and i forget why | 13:47 |
gnarface | but this might have been why | 13:48 |
ham5urg | It is due to intel_pstate | 13:51 |
gnarface | oh my bad | 13:51 |
ham5urg | This is the new replacement for acpi-cpufreq | 13:51 |
gnarface | yea intel also has one thing of its own that's supposed to be fancier | 13:51 |
gnarface | i forgot about that | 13:52 |
ham5urg | Is there a better place to blacklist this module as in /etc/grub/default? | 13:53 |
tr-amarsh04 | I put custom blacklists in /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf | 13:54 |
gnarface | /etc/modprobe.d/*.conf | 13:55 |
gnarface | yea | 13:55 |
ham5urg | I've put an "install intel_pstate /bin/false" there | 13:58 |
tr-amarsh04 | by putting "blacklist name-of-module" in /etc/modprobe.d/local.conf the module doesn't get auto-loaded | 13:59 |
ham5urg | Maybe some other module invokes a load and circumvent the blacklisting. | 14:00 |
gnarface | gotta reboot for that change too | 14:00 |
gnarface | and it has to be "blacklist [module name]" | 14:00 |
ham5urg | Maybe a non-loading of intel_pstate will help. Gonna reboot | 14:01 |
ham5urg | intel_pstate is hardcoded | 14:10 |
ham5urg | # cat /boot/config-5.10.0-0.bpo.8-amd64 | grep PSTATE | 14:10 |
ham5urg | CONFIG_X86_INTEL_PSTATE=y | 14:10 |
gnarface | well damn does it have any controls? | 14:11 |
ham5urg | # find /lib/modules/ -iname '*pstate*' | 14:12 |
ham5urg | shows nothing | 14:12 |
gnarface | hmm, looks like no | 14:13 |
gnarface | not as a module option anyway | 14:13 |
tr-amarsh04 | kernel menuconfig shows X86_INTEL_PSTATE Depends on: CPU_FREQ [=y] && X86 [=y] | 14:14 |
gnarface | wait, so does ubuntu not use intel_pstate? | 14:15 |
gnarface | maybe this is futile anyway | 14:16 |
ham5urg | idk if ubuntu does not use intel_pstate | 14:16 |
ham5urg | Must check | 14:16 |
ham5urg | I will try to block pstate via grub and after reboot I check a live-ubuntu | 14:17 |
gnarface | see if it exposes any controls in /sys/ | 14:19 |
gnarface | i'm not sure if they're the same ones as the ones i'm used to using... they may be just in a different place | 14:20 |
ham5urg | ok | 14:22 |
ham5urg | pstate can be disabled via GRUB | 14:26 |
ham5urg | I installed acpi-support acpid acpi | 14:28 |
ham5urg | I will try Ubuntu 21.04 now. | 14:30 |
ham5urg | gnarface, could not find a difference in intel_pstate in devuan <> ubuntu. It's unconfigured and uses defaults. | 15:33 |
gnarface | probably not the issue then | 15:34 |
gnarface | just a wild goose chase, sorry | 15:34 |
gnarface | worth trying to install lm-sensors | 15:35 |
gnarface | then run sensors-detect as root | 15:35 |
gnarface | say yes to all tests | 15:35 |
gnarface | accept default option to modify the /etc/modules file as long as it's not something already loaded | 15:35 |
gnarface | then you should be able to just run "sensors" as any user | 15:36 |
gnarface | and mind you the values will largely be inaccurate but they won't be wildly varying in their inaccuracy; you'll be able to tell temperature change relative to them... probably ignore the voltage stuff, it's not known for bioses to report this stuff super accurately | 15:37 |
gnarface | and negative temperature values are probably just misparsed | 15:37 |
gnarface | patches welcome | 15:37 |
gnarface | (:-p) | 15:38 |
gnarface | it's probably not overheating but as a sanity check we should make sure it isn't | 15:38 |
gnarface | i don't know where you'd get all this information from ubuntu exactly but if you could get it and check for any large discrepancies in fan speeds or temperatures that would probably be useful just as a sanity check | 15:41 |
ham5urg | you mean a little script which every 1/n of a second writes data to a file. E.g. last 5 min in 1/100s resolution? | 15:41 |
gnarface | you would really only have to run it by hand a few times at idle and a few times at load to have a good idea if something was wrong compared to the ubuntu measurements but by all means don't let me stop you from overcomplicating it | 15:42 |
ham5urg | Hehe | 15:43 |
ham5urg | Let me see today and maybe the weekend if the intel_pstate disableing did something good. | 15:43 |
gnarface | you could run munin and get graphs | 15:43 |
ham5urg | Ok | 15:43 |
gnarface | disabling intel_pstate might have actually been a bad idea, i recommend you get a second opinion on that | 15:43 |
ham5urg | I'm using cpufreq_ondemand for now | 15:44 |
gnarface | you have acpid running too? | 15:44 |
ham5urg | Yes | 15:44 |
gnarface | ok good | 15:45 |
gnarface | fortunately it does have controls | 15:45 |
gnarface | look in: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/ondemand/ | 15:45 |
tr-amarsh04 | silly question, is cpufreqd installed? | 15:45 |
gnarface | ondemand wouldn't need it, it's controlled by the kernel | 15:45 |
tr-amarsh04 | ah, ok | 15:46 |
gnarface | the userspace governor is the one that uses a daemon | 15:46 |
gnarface | any daemon, really... it's controlled through /sys too | 15:46 |
gnarface | i actually prefer that one but i use amd hardware so ymmv | 15:47 |
hagbard | I get this one when I try to update kexec-tools to the version in daedalus: invoke-rc.d: initscript kexec, action "restart" failed | 18:23 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | Hi, I have a few questions about Debian packaging of coding languages: | 18:49 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | First, I don't completely understand what the exact requirements are. | 18:49 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | I read about Kotlin and I don't think I understood this. If Kotlin is written in Kotlin how was the first Kotlin binary compiled? | 18:49 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | What are the pitfalls with coding languages regarding freedom? | 18:49 |
Hydragyrum | "if kotlin is written in kotlin..." the original compiler/etc. for kotlin was written in another language, and then used to compile the self-hosted kotlin compiler that's used there | 19:15 |
Hydragyrum | gcc is also usually compiled with gcc for instance | 19:16 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | <Hydragyrum> "gcc is also usually compiled..." <- So, what is the issue exactly? Is the Kotlin compiler non-free? The Debian page about Kotlin metions putting the original compiler in the non-free repos. | 19:29 |
Hydragyrum | I'm not personally that familiar with kotlin -- but if it's in the non-free repos, it sounds like it's either closed-source or under a restrictive license -- but if the self-hosted compiler is free, that's not an issue, as being compiled with a given compiler does not count as derivation or the like | 19:32 |
EmanuelLoos[m] | What are the exact requirements that have to be met for a coding language to get into Debian? | 19:33 |
Hydragyrum | "coding language" -- it | 19:34 |
Hydragyrum | *it isn't the language -- it's the compiler or interpreter etc. | 19:34 |
onefang | This is all #devuan-offtopic, since this is the Devuan support channel. | 19:34 |
Vall | Hello everyone | 20:42 |
Vall | ham5urg: IME memtest isn't worth crap. It misses all but the most egregious failures | 20:44 |
Vall | If you want to really test a machine, you have to get it through a burnin for at least 72h. | 20:44 |
Vall | Burnin means a parallel run of at least mprime in torture mode, plus dledford's memtest (google for it) to *really* stress the RAM. | 20:48 |
nemo | Vall: I sent memtest dude $10 once 'cause he saved me a lot of pain on some bad ram. was then able to salvage it w/ badram mask | 21:11 |
nemo | that test sounds impressive but probably more than I wanna bother doing | 21:13 |
nemo | I think catching egregious is good enough for me ☺ | 21:13 |
nemo | but I guess if he's desperate to catch some ephemeral subtle error | 21:13 |
nemo | gnarface: the idea of powersave being more stable sounds reasonable to me though if his CPU is marginal. like... isn't that what CPU companies do? sell the marginal CPUs at a lower clockrate? | 21:15 |
nemo | then overclockers spend a bunch of money on crazy cooling setups to try to coax a higher clockrate out of it without the game crashing? | 21:16 |
demo_ | Hello,I am new here!. | 22:21 |
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