libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2021-10-04

tr-amarsh04if user____ returns, I'd love them to document "What it took to fix it: strace -ff xfce4-mime-settings -> read output and walk down all config files opened (over a dozen)" on dev1galaxy.org02:17
rwpluser978 ^^ since as I recall user____ is your other nick.  Unless that was actually luser979 instead. :-)02:39
tr-amarsh04I had a pulseaudio problem that was solved from help on dev1galaxy.org and I documented my fix at http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=28936#p2893602:47
tr-amarsh04and still have an open Debian bug report on it: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=98621102:47
rwpI am looking forward to PipeWire replacing PulseAudio everywhere.  It will be so nice to avoid dealing with the problems of PulseAudio.02:51
linux_nE: package winetricks has no installation candidate. Anyone know how to fix this?03:27
sadsnorkI thought [I could be wrong] that the best way to get winetricks was to wget and chmod.03:29
fluffywolftr-amarsh04:  I've had lots of pulseaudio problems.  apt-get purge pulseaudio usually fixes them.  :P03:37
linux_nDo you know the wget command to install winetricks?03:41
hyrcanusa browser can download it also03:46
linux_nwget worked thanks03:50
sadsnorkSorry linux_n I fell asleep at the switch... glad it worked though. :-)04:07
gourmorning07:19
gourfor the desktop machine which is shut down every day, do you recommend chrony over ntp and whether to use rtcsync or rtcfile?07:20
rwpgour, I use ntp on my mobile laptop which is suspended and resumed on different networks all of the time.  Works superior.07:29
gourrwp: thank you!07:35
gouri've problem using libsecret-stored password from gnome-keyring and accessing it by msmtp. the bug is reported here: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=994961 and i've the problem mentioned in the last comment: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=994961#48 and i see there is no dbus-user-session package available, so wonder if i should report it at devuan's tracker?07:51
rrqhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt07:56
gourrrq: hmm, does it mean it is not possible to use libsecret-stored passwd and gnome keyring?08:00
rrqpossibly. e.g. if it depends on having dbus-user-session installed, which depends on systemd.08:02
gourthe same mechanism was working under mxlinux which also does not use systemd08:02
Rodonis zathura-pdf-mupdf is available without need of compiling from source?09:24
stefan_itI have a devuan testing system, works perfectly. I noticed that since a month or so an 'apt update' does not show a single package update. Is this normal? Usually there are lot of updates. Thanks10:49
gourstefan_it: when the new release is approaching, it is, afaik, usual behaviour10:50
stefan_itok, good, this was my guess. Thanks10:50
gouri'm on 'ceres', but when i was on debian, sid was also getting just a few updates before release10:51
gnarfacestefan_it: it could be a mistake in your /etc/apt/sources.list though too10:57
gnarfacesometimes these situations might happen on their own10:58
gnarfacefor example if you didn't configure networking during the install then the default sources.list will only point to the cdrom drive10:58
gnarfaceand that could just as easily explain there being no new packages available10:59
gnarfacewhen in doubt, compare what you're seeing in your apt search results to what you see at pkginfo.devuan.org10:59
stefan_itgnarface: i have this system since a long time, done a lot of updates since then, so my guess is that the code is frozen due to imminent release. Thanks for the suggestion, will do the check.11:00
dgamer69I finished installing devuan :D16:03
gnarfacecongrats, dgamer6916:08
dgamer69thanks you!16:09
dgamer69I got a default gnome working as well, so I think I'm all setup as well!16:09
gnarfacecool16:10
gourfor gnome i'd run debian, but for xfce devuan is great16:23
gour...considering that gnome so systemd-oriented16:27
gour*is so16:27
dgamer69it is?16:27
dgamer69it seems to run fine16:27
gourwell, who is the main pusher of systemd?16:27
dgamer69no clue16:27
gourredhat16:28
dgamer69I mostly switched to denuvan from distrochooser.de16:28
gourand they're main force behind gnome16:28
dgamer69I have no idea what I'm doing here16:28
dgamer69really?16:28
brocashelmdistrochooser.de is how i also discovered devuan16:29
brocashelmi think it's been a success so far; i haven't distrohopped at all since the switch16:29
gourdgamer69: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd16:29
dgamer69I didn't even select the "I don't like systemd" option lmao16:29
gourin any case, for devuan i'd recommend sticking with xfe which is great DE16:30
gour*xfce16:30
dgamer69I dunno16:30
brocashelmmate is also good if you liked good old gtk216:30
dgamer69I come from majaro gnome16:30
dgamer69and I've only used gnome based distros16:30
brocashelmwell, mate is the fork of gnome itself16:30
dgamer69I really like the workflow16:30
dgamer69isn't mate more based on gnome 2 though?16:30
brocashelmyes16:31
gouri see...well, waiti for the input from some of the devuan devs ;)16:31
brocashelmbut with a more sane approach to things16:31
dgamer69lmao16:31
dgamer69the gnome team is really aggressive16:31
dgamer69their aidwata theme is basically being pushed to have everything be universal16:32
brocashelmdevelopment is more active than xfce and doesn't have that retarded csd (client-side display) shit they've been including as a "feature" since xfce 4.1616:32
dgamer69I can't tell if it's a good move or a bad one16:32
dgamer69what's csd16:32
brocashelma totally unnecessary "feature" to make windows on xfce programs look more like macos16:33
brocashelmhttps://linuxreviews.org/Xfce_Classic_Brings_An_Alternative_To_Those_Who_Do_Not_Want_Xfce_To_Become_GNOME_Light16:33
brocashelmhere's an article on that16:33
brocashelmshows comparisons to csd vs. non-csd16:33
brocashelmfortunately, xfce classic is a thing and is easy to fix this: https://github.com/Xfce-Classic/16:34
brocashelmbut if your xfce is prior to 4.16, you should be safe for now16:35
dgamer69dang16:36
dgamer69that genuinly looks autistic16:36
dgamer69https://linuxreviews.org/images/6/61/Xfce-4.12-panel-preferences.jpg16:36
dgamer69bsd4me noooooooo16:46
bsd4me_:D16:54
dgamer69:D you're back!16:56
sadsnorkI'm currently fighting with the move to Chimaera partially because of that CSD crap.  Right now I am trying out just plain Openbox with fbpanel and some GTK3 configs to make the scrollbars look like I am not running a phone.  Is there an easier way to do this?16:59
dgamer69I saw phosh on the repos, is there a way to put the phone kernel in devuan and run it on something like a pinephone?17:01
gnarfaceshouldn't be hard17:02
gnarfacethat kernel wouldn't have any problem booting a devuan rootfs, there just wouldn't be much support for the phone parts17:03
gnarfacein the userspace that is17:03
gnarfacei think there is one devuan based distro17:03
gnarfaceso the work of porting some of those tools might in theory already be done17:04
brocashelmsadsnork: have you looked into compiling xfce classic? it worked for me17:20
sadsnorkHey brocashelm, I was just finishing up a minor battle with fbpanel and starting to check out that xfce classic link...17:22
sadsnorkDid you do just the panel [ https://github.com/Xfce-Classic/xfce4-panel ] or is there more?17:23
brocashelmi only did the libxfce4-nocsd part17:23
brocashelmat least the windows look as they should again17:23
brocashelmhttps://github.com/Xfce-Classic/libxfce4ui-nocsd17:24
brocashelmalthough there is no official debian/devuan build, that xubuntu ppa worked for me (but it's better to manually install)17:25
sadsnorkSo you just did the manual install of that and all of your xfce related windows (essentially everything in "settings") goes back to normal?17:25
sadsnorkAh!  beat me to it eh. :-)17:25
sadsnorkThanks for the link!  I'm gonna go fiddle. :-)17:26
brocashelmi installed from the ppa and had no problems ;)17:26
brocashelmno prob!17:26
brocashelmthere might be some depend conflicts because you'd have to remove libxfce4ui (original), but that's required in order for the nocsd version to work17:27
brocashelmhelps to then restart your xfce session after the upgrade17:27
brocashelmi got the packages libxfce4ui-nocsd-2-0, libxfce4ui-nocsd-common, and libxfce4ui-nocsd-utils installed from the xubuntu ppa and i haven't experienced anything unusual (except for a minor flickering of the right click ui on the desktop when launching a window from it)17:29
gnarfacei'd recommend against mixing packages from other distros, especially ubuntu - it can cause problems during later upgrades even if it works fine initially17:31
brocashelmso just manually compile then17:33
hyrcanusi run devuan on my phones18:15
hyrcanusdgamer69: devuan runs phones, check out maemo-leste18:16
dgamer69no way18:18
hyrcanussame OS on all my devices18:22
hyrcanusok one i haven't converted yet18:23
hyrcanusthis topic might be better discussed in #devuan-arm18:23
Guest28hello!20:24
Guest28devuan have tool for install driver nvidia? Or this is in the repo?20:25
hyrcanushello Guest28 sorry i haven't used that in so long I forgot20:28
Guest28ok thanks20:30
Guest28i try search20:30
Guest28info20:30
hyrcanusGuest28: debian/devuan doesn't include non-free software20:37
hyrcanuswell by default20:37
hyrcanusso generally with nvidia's drivers, you run their installer shellscript, and you get their issues and problems20:38
hyrcanusbut there are open-source 'nouveau' drivers for nvidia20:38
hyrcanusthese are things i think are true20:38
Guest28qoute"but there are open-source 'nouveau' drivers for nvidia" I know, but time of the time, I like run game like Xcom ;)20:40
hyrcanusi don't know the state of the drivers but they should have opengl support20:41
Guest28sorry bad english. I'm from Poland, and not much speak your language20:41
hyrcanusyou know more english than I know polish20:41
Guest28hehe :)20:42
hyrcanusbroda! piwo! kurwa!20:42
Guest28:D20:42
Guest28somtimes I must use translator deepl20:42
hyrcanusit's a good translator20:43
Guest28but want study english20:43
Guest28and try not use much :D20:44
Guest28Ok, so it's time to try install Devuan ;)20:44
peterrooneyaptitude search non-?free # this and similar shows quite a bit, but only one legacy nvidia package20:44
Guest28my card is very old. Nvidia 540M :D20:45
Guest28in Samsung RC530. Very like this laptop :)  long time i have this20:46
hyrcanusi thought i saw active progress on nouveau drivers, and them being a viable alternative now20:58
JaKhello everybody22:08
Carontesorry, hello again22:09
dgamer69okay so fill me in22:11
dgamer69the most I know about systed and why it's bad is that it's a security hole22:11
dgamer69because it controlls the entire init system22:11
djphthere are many reasons it's "bad"22:11
dgamer69is that correct?22:12
CaronteMy POV is that it "doesn't do one thing and it doesn't do it well"22:12
djph^ that's a big one in my book22:12
nemomhm22:13
dgamer69okay22:13
djphAlso the whole binary logs thing just infuriates me.22:13
nemothat said, it's less catastrophically buggy these days than it was like... last year22:13
dgamer69what's that?22:13
nemodjph: yeah. that's annoying.22:13
nemodjph: I like to have a bit more visibility as to what services are doing and how they started. fortunately on the 2 ubuntu servers, most everything is still init scripts anyway ☺22:13
djphnemo: yeah, but you can say the same thing about Windows22:14
UsLthis is the support channel for devuan. If you wan't to talk about systemd please go to -offtopic or debianfork22:14
dgamer69okay22:14
UsLthat is #devuan-offtopic to be clearer, sorry.22:15
Carontetech question on the devuan installation: can I?22:15
UsLCaronte: ofcourse.22:15
CaronteUsL: I did a minimun installation (network install). Is possible that shutdown has not been included?22:16
CaronteBecause I was not able to run it... as root :)22:16
CaronteUsL: (this is gore, I know :D )22:17
UsLI'm not sure.. I haven't done any installations of late, sorry. I'm still on ascii to be honest. Looking forward to do the chimaera release22:18
dgamer69don't you have to specify on install shether or not to give your account sudo?22:18
dgamer69*whether22:18
CaronteI didn't sudo-ed shutdown... I was on a root shell22:19
UsLCaronte: when you're root you22:19
UsL're a "su root -" root?22:19
CaronteUsL: correct22:19
Caronteactually, just 'su'22:20
UsLtry su root -22:20
CaronteUsL: thank you! I will :)22:20
CaronteI choosed Devuan as reference UNIX for a course I have to give to my colleagues :D22:21
UsLnice. Devuan try to keep it old school and stable, so it's a good choice I think22:21
hyrcanusuniversities should still teach unix22:22
hyrcanushttp://0x0.st/-gWW.ans  in celebration of facebook, an ansi for you22:23
JaKsorry, I felt22:23
Caronte2UsL: thank you. BTW, does members of Devuan comitee said anything about a new convention?22:25
Caronte2Last one was in Amsterdam 201922:25
UsLI haven't heard anything. But I am not close enough to do so22:26
UsLhyrcanus: nice trollface  : )22:26
UsLCaronte2: I think someone who knows better will answer if you hang around22:27
Caronte2UsL: thank you! :) BTW, are you using Devuan for server or for desktop? (Or both?)22:28
UsLdesktop and media center/file server22:29
hyrcanus:)22:31
Caronte2UsL: that'interesting! Are you using Samba?22:31
UsLno, just ssh stuff22:33
Caronte2Hey, thank you a lot for your help :) I'll suggest the irc channel to my colleagues! :D22:34
UsLyou're all welcome22:34

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