libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2021-10-10

Hydragyrumso with the newer 5.14 kernels my screen turns off during early/mid boot and doesn't come back, but with the 5.10 I still have, it works fine01:24
Hydragyrumdmesg output from a boot with the issue -> https://0x0.st/-E1f.001:26
_ds_Tried newer firmware?01:27
HydragyrumAll packages are up-to-date with ceres01:28
HydragyrumPackage: firmware-amd-graphics / Version: 20210315-2 / Status: install ok installed01:29
_ds_Hmm… doesn't look like Stoney Ridge firmware has been updated since 201801:33
_ds_(checking linux-firmware git)01:33
HydragyrumI see a couple bugs regarding amdgpu on 5.14 but none with the same results01:35
Hydragyrumthis seems to be about the same thing, reading now -> https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/laptop-backlight-dims-to-zero-on-boot-with-kernel-5-14-0-a-4175700104/01:37
_ds_I'd look at https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues01:37
_ds_Also OFTC/#radeon01:38
Hydragyrumwell a udev rule fixed it01:49
_ds_Or at least worked around it…01:51
Hydragyrumwell yeah01:53
yann-kaeligHello15:18
gnarfacehey, if you have questions just ask them and wait patiently15:18
yann-kaeligWhich package should I install or how can I change the language on cinnamon DE. There is no such thing in the settings15:19
gnarfacethe package is called locales15:19
gnarfaceto change the settings run "dpkg-reconfigure locales"15:19
gnarfacedepending on what you change it to you might also need to run "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" and install some fonts15:20
gnarfacei'm not familiar with cinnamon DE so i don't know if it provides any gui options to control this stuff15:20
gnarfaceluckily you don't need it15:20
gnarfaceif you're missing locales you're probably also missing tzdata, which isn't required for this but almost practically is15:21
gnarface(same thing to change tzdata settings; dpkg-reconfigure tzdata)15:21
gnarface(as root!)15:22
yann-kaeligok, locale-all has been installed, but from what I found on the webm there should be a Cinnamon Settings -> Languages entry, but there is no such thing from a devuan installation15:23
gnarfacelocale-all?15:29
gnarfacethat's not the locales packge15:29
gnarfaceactually i don't even think that's a devuan package at all15:30
gnarfaceare you sure?15:30
gnarfaceforget about the cinnamon menu entry for the moment, i don't know if it's related to systemd or not15:30
gnarfaceif that feature relied on system they might have removed it for this build15:31
gnarface*on systemd15:31
yann-kaeligwell, same issue with mate, no way to change the language from the DE15:31
yann-kaeligthat really weird15:31
yann-kaeligfirst time  Isee that15:31
gnarfacei'm not sure what's up with that, i'm just saying, you can change it from a terminal anyway15:32
gnarfacethe language menu setting for enlightenment used to show up last i checked but it breaks stuff so i just disable it and use the terminal15:32
gnarfaceonly thing i can suggest about the cinnamon thing is run this and make sure you got all the packages that are relevant: apt-cache search ^connamon15:33
gnarfacewoops, i mean: apt-cache search ^cinnamon15:33
gnarfaceobviously15:33
gnarfacecinnamon-l10n - Translation files for the Cinnamon desktop?15:34
gnarfacedunno15:34
gnarfacethere's also this, which might help if you didn't use it: task-cinnamon-desktop - Cinnamon15:35
yann-kaeligit's installed from the beginning, but no language entry in both Mate and Cinnamon GUI15:36
yann-kaeligwell, thx for you help, nothing changed, no language settings, will try to find another distro15:41
yann-kaeligbye15:41
gnarfaceyou'd have to relog and restart the login manager first of course for any of those changes to take effect outside that one terminal probably, but sure why not just rage quit and reinstall instead15:51
brocashelmdistrohopping is a disease16:54
luser978widespread one brocashelm17:18
sadoon_albader[mIf distrohopping was a disease17:50
sadoon_albader[mThen would trying out distros in vms be considered studying medicine? :P17:50
sadoon_albader[mPerhaps if we considered distrohopping to be an addiction, then testing them out in vms would be doing just enough that you enjoy it but don't get addicted lmao17:52
luser978metabolism is an even wider spread "disease". let's take this *-offtopic.18:01
golinuxOfftopic again  . . .18:03
user____Is Chimaera finally ripe? Ready to do update; upgrade; from Beowulf without disaster?18:15
golinuxiiuc, it has been for quite a while18:19
golinuxJust documentation outstanding and update of the live isos.18:19
golinuxRC coming very soon18:19
brocashelmnice!18:53
brocashelmglad to see it's coming through18:53
sadoon_albader[mBeen using it on 3 different architectures without trouble, you'll be fine with chimaera :)19:00
user____famous last words. I am an adept of dual booting, install to empty partitions, then switch over using grub menu.19:36
user____For this reason I need to clear out wheezy from said partitions ;)19:36
user____Without deleting important data. Will take a while.19:36
user____Does Chimaera have any special tricks related to SSDs?19:37
blockheadi would think it should be the same as in debian?19:38
user____I have not touched debian since wheezy...19:38
blockheadoh, you said wheezy.  now i get it19:39
user____Think last century. Almost :)19:39
blockheadyeah, now i realize19:39
blockheadone word: discard19:39
blockheaddiscards are a thing with SSDs - and I'm hoping someone better than me at explaining will step up   :o19:40
user____Nono. /home etc hold data I need to ensure is not later rolled out of backups too19:40
* blockhead meants discards in a completely different sense19:40
user____disc-cards? :)19:40
blockheadit's an SSD thing to hopefully prolong the life of said SSD19:41
user____I actually should have an Etch on some disk here.19:41
blockheadlast time i used debian as like 2015?19:42
user____Last time I installed that, not used.19:42
user____I ran modified Knoppix until I installed Ascii then Beowulf.19:43
user____<this is getting off topic>19:43
blockheadso is this a new SSD?  meaning, have you partitioned it?19:45
user____It will be a new ssd, the last eide disk will be gone and replaced with a ssd.19:45
brocashelmonce upon a time, i installed beowulf, then changed my sources.list to ceres, and devuan lived happily ever after19:46
user____Is that not unsafe?19:46
brocashelmnope. have not looked back since then19:47
brocashelmi'm already running 5.14 kernel, too19:48
brocashelmapt-listchanges and apt-listbugs come in handy when performing upgrades19:49
brocashelmi've never had a system crash that wasn't my own mistake19:49
brocashelmruns stable for weeks/months if i wanted to19:49
AfdalOof, does anyone use the R programming language?20:09
AfdalI can't get RStudio to work because it requires libssl.so.1.0.220:09
Afdallibssl1.1 is the only version in the repositories20:10
AfdalApparently people have been encountering this same problem in recent Ubuntu versions too20:11
Afdalhol up, I'm a dumbo20:18
AfdalWas using the wrong version :)20:18
AfdalAlways found it a little confusing how stable distro releases don't keep their programming languages up to date for programmers to use20:30
AfdalWhat programmer wants to use an old version of a language?20:31
fluffywolfsome programming languages, most notably the awfulness that is python, break things with every update...20:32
AfdalWhich Debian release is Beowulf analogous to, is it Stretch?20:34
fluffywolfhttps://www.devuan.org/os/releases20:36
Afdaloh it's Buster20:36
fluffywolfbbl, back to tree pruning, of the non-programming variety20:39
* Afdal trims a Bayesian additive regression tree20:40
AfdalHmm how do I grab a newer version of software after I've added a backports repository?20:48
AfdalI'm on Beowulf and it doesn't seem like adding this chimaera backports repo is letting me get what I want20:48
fluffywolfapt-cache show <package>, apt-get install <package>=<version you want to install>, is how I usually do it.20:51
fluffywolfbbl20:51
Afdaloh I wanted the main repo, not the backports20:51
Afdalokay20:52
AfdalNow how do I only install this one particular package instead of a giant set of other package upgrades from chimaera...20:52
gnarface --no-install-recommends20:53
Afdalas an apt parameter?20:53
ltsIf you are on beowulf, you need to use beowulf-backports, not chimaera-backports20:53
gnarfaceyes try: apt-get --no-install-recommends install [package]=[version]20:53
gnarfaceoh, if it's backports then it'd be: apt-get -t beowulf-backports --no-install-recommends install [package]=[version]20:54
AfdalThis isn't from backports20:54
Afdalhmm no-install-recommends doesn't seem to be working20:54
AfdalI keep getting presenting with a giant list of upgrades when attempting to install just this one package20:55
gnarfaceit might actually need whatever it's including...20:55
fluffywolfoften newer programs have newer dependencies...20:55
AfdalCould it really have 370MB of dependencies to upgrade?20:55
blockheadwhat package is it?20:55
gnarfacedid you ever upgrade?20:55
Afdalthe R programming language20:55
gnarfacemake sure it's not removing anything20:55
Afdallibwebp6?  I doubt R needs that...20:56
ltsAre you sure you are not adding chimaera repos? You mention this above "I'm on Beowulf and it doesn't seem like adding this chimaera backports repo is letting me get what I want"20:56
AfdalYeah I removed the backports repo and changed it to chimaera main20:56
ltsWell that's your issue then20:56
AfdalI want the version of this package that's on chimaera main20:56
ltsYou are effectively upgrading to chimaera there, and not doing it fully20:57
AfdalI don't wanna upgrade to chimaera, how do I just grab this one updated package that's on its repo {:I20:57
gnarfaceyou'd have to rebuild the package20:57
Afdalaww seriously20:57
gnarfaceunless someone already had20:57
gnarfaceand put it in backports20:57
Afdalmight as well just compile this from source then, sheesh -_-20:58
ltsIf the package is in beowulf-backports, you can use that. Or you can fully upgrade to chimaera20:58
gnarfaceit's also an option but i recommend you still get the package dependencies right either way20:58
AfdalI feel like there was some sort of repo I used back on *buntu to keep my R language updated20:58
gnarfaceyou could upgrade to chimera, or you could install chimera in a chroot just for R20:58
ltsDon't do franken-devuan by mixing the repos, though. Only use beowulf OR chimaera20:58
Afdalbummer20:59
gnarfacesorry chimaera, i'm gonna have to get used to the spelling20:59
AfdalSo there's seriously no way to grab this one package update off another repo without doing a full upgrade?20:59
ltsNothing wrong with chimaera though. It's so stable I personally wonder why isn't it officially released yet. :-)20:59
AfdalI'm a little hesitant to upgrade to it just yet, but I probably will when it's released21:00
AfdalIt's precarious for me to do full OS installs on this hardware21:00
Afdalso if something goes wrong I'm in trouble21:00
gnarfacelike i said, you could install chimera in a chroot with debootstrap21:00
gnarfacethen you don't have to upgrade21:00
gnarfacebut you still have to download everything21:00
Afdalthat sounds tricky21:00
AfdalI'll probably just compile and build my own package I guess21:01
Afdalless messy21:01
gnarfaceif their source has ./debian directories it might not be21:01
gnarfacesorry, i'm confusing two things here21:02
gnarfacethe package build utilities can help you do this easier whether you're starting from scratch or using the repo packages, is what i should say21:02
gnarfaceparticularly dpkg-buildpackage21:03
Afdalwhat's that do21:03
gnarfaceyou should really read the man page but it is the thing that uses that $SRC/debian/ directory to automate package build21:03
AfdalHow's that better than a make checkinstall21:03
gnarfacethe existing dependencies are already in place and you can just make any alterations necessary21:04
gnarfaceand you don't have to deal with ./configure, make, make install etc21:04
Afdalwhat about apt-get build-dep?21:04
gnarfaceyou should use that21:05
gnarfacealso: apt-get install build-essential21:06
gnarfacebut even if you do that you'll probably still be missing yacc an bison21:06
AfdalE: Unable to find a source package for r-base21:06
Afdaloof, nevermind that21:06
AfdalOh apparently the Beowulf main source repository is commented out by default?21:07
Afdalwhat's that all about?21:07
gnarfacei have no idea, it's been so long since i didn't write my own sources.list...21:08
Afdalweird21:08
ltsdeb-srcs being commented out is a pretty common default in debian based OSs21:08
Afdal800MB of source packages, damn...21:08
gnarfacelanguages are big21:10
gnarfacewait till you find out how much ram it takes to compile it21:10
Afdallol21:10
Afdal-____-21:10
AfdalI think I've compiled R before21:10
Afdaldon't remember it being -too- terrible21:10
gnarfacei don't actually know i just assume in general language compilation is gonna be a lot21:11
AfdalDid it on a puny ancient laptop with only 2GB RAM too21:11
Afdalyeah that version is somehow still more recent than the one on Beowulf's repo21:12
AfdalI compiled that years ago21:12
AfdalWhat's the release cycle like for Devuan21:13
Afdalis it 3 years?21:13
gnarfacethey just try to follow debian as close as is economically feasible21:13
AfdalWhat's the release cycle like for Debian?21:13
gnarfacesomething like that, about 3 years21:14
gnarfacethey never set an official time period, they just say "when it's done and sooner if you help"21:14
gnarfacethe release date history is up on wikipedia, if you're interested21:17
gnarfacedebootstrapping to a chroot isn't as hard as it sounds21:17
gnarfaceif you're gonna be about compiling experimental language builds i would strongly recommend it21:18
gnarfaceit should be within your grasp if you can compile this stuff to begin with21:18
AfdalI honestly don't have a clue what you mean by debootstrapping to a chroot21:18
AfdalWhy a chroot would even be useful for this21:19
gnarfaceso you don't have to corrupt your base beowulf install's package hierarchy with a bunch of chimaera packages and build dependencies21:21
gnarfacewhich would, to be clear, make a mess you won't be able to clean up21:21
Afdaloh okay so using a separate library directory just for those?21:22
AfdalWhat's a good place to stick that, somewhere in my home directory?21:22
gnarfacebasically a whole separate rootfs actually, where you should be able to build, install and use the R language safely21:22
gnarfaceliterally anywhere you have space21:22
gnarfacesince it's a big ad-hoc cludge i'd put it somewhere in /usr/local but that's just me21:23
Hydragyrumhome dir or /usr/local are both fine choices21:23
gnarface /usr/local/chroots/ maybe21:23
gnarface /usr/local/chroot_build_directory_for_R_so_as_not_to_confuse_it_with_anything_else21:23
gnarfaceno wait21:24
gnarface /usr/local/var/chroot_build_directory_for_R_so_as_not_to_confuse_it_with_anything_else21:24
gnarfacethere :)21:24
Hydragyrumhell, /var/chroots/* could be a fine place21:24
eyalrozAre there any resources about getting starting with nftables/iptables/iptables-legacy on recent Debian distributions?21:26
eyalrozSpecifically, the default input policy seems to be DROP, and I want to add some exception for certain applications. What should I use? Is there someplace under /etc/ with a bunch of nft rule files? Or should I use ye olde hosts.allow and hosts.deny? Something else?21:26
gnarfaceeyalroz: i usually just make my own scripts but you could try to customize iptables-persistent21:31
gnarface(the package)21:31
gnarfacethere might be some other firewall rule managers too21:31
gnarfacein thre21:31
gnarfacein there*21:31
eyalrozgnarface: What generates the rules I see with iptables-legacy-save?21:31
gnarfacei assume they were generated by the package installation scripts if they're not static21:32
gnarfacelike i said, i usually just write my own script21:32
gnarfacerunning a script as an init.d service isn't really a firewall-specific task21:33
eyalrozgnarface: If they are static, where would I find the relevant script? To be more specific, let's consider a single rule: A INPUT -p tcp -m tcp --dport 22 -j ACCEPT21:38
gnarfaceeyalroz: if they're static then they'd be in the package's file list: dpkg -L iptables-legacy-save22:10
eyalrozgnarface: I don't even have that installed :-P22:13
gnarfaceoh22:18
gnarfacewell dpkg -L [package name]22:18
golinuxBullseye Point Release happened yesterday https://www.debian.org/News/2021/2021100922:49

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