| * Wikiwide is upgrading from oldstable to stable, because tired of being stuck on Firefox 78 when 91 has already been released... https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 00:41 | |
| Afdal | Is a Firefox upgrade even an upgrade anymore | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| Afdal | They feel like downgrades | 00:42 |
| Afdal | That's why I "upgraded" to a different browser | 00:42 |
| adhoc | heh | 00:47 |
| adhoc | Afdal: what did you move to ? | 00:47 |
| Xenguy | Afdal, Which "different browser"? | 00:48 |
| Afdal | Palemoon a while back, when Mozilla finally murdered their XUL extensions | 00:48 |
| Xenguy | I'm still using XUL myself | 00:48 |
| Afdal | Sorry Mozilla, web browser customizability is the entire reason I switched to Firefox in the first place | 00:48 |
| * Xenguy remembers the good old daze... | 00:49 | |
| Afdal | I still have fond memories of trying to get the word out about the big hyped up v3.0 release | 00:49 |
| Afdal | and then things changed | 00:49 |
| Afdal | Firefox is without a doubt the biggest failure of the libre software movement | 00:50 |
| Afdal | will never get the bad taste out of my mouth over it | 00:51 |
| adhoc | the driver there is the need to compete in a market | 00:53 |
| adhoc | when, they did not need to | 00:53 |
| adhoc | chrome only made things worse | 00:53 |
| adhoc | the pointless feature treadmill force it get more devs and which needed money to employ ... | 00:54 |
| Afdal | It's been a painful lesson in non-profit structures and who funds you | 00:54 |
| Velvet | is general discussion ok here? | 00:54 |
| Afdal | lol okay I'll stop :) | 00:54 |
| Velvet | is that a no? | 00:55 |
| gnarface | Velvet: there's a #devuan-offtopic for general discussion | 00:55 |
| Velvet | there we go...ty | 00:55 |
| gnarface | np | 00:55 |
| Wikiwide | Warning: Possible missing firmware for module i915 | 01:43 |
| Xenguy | Wikiwide, I think I get that too, but I've never noticed any missing functionality | 01:50 |
| Wikiwide | Why does stable chimaera have firefox-esr at 78? | 02:23 |
| golinux | Wikiwide: Because that's what Debian has | 02:24 |
| Wikiwide | golinux: That's tiresome. | 02:27 |
| golinux | Mayvbe look in backports | 02:30 |
| * Wikiwide checked at Devuan website, only ceres has up-do-date firefox-esr | 02:30 | |
| UsL | I am on ascii and have FF 78 : ) I guess thanks to backports. | 02:44 |
| Jjp137 | there's actually no backports for firefox-esr, but stretch (and thus, ascii) is under Debian LTS so they're still providing security support until June 30, 2022 | 02:49 |
| Jjp137 | as for why ceres only has the latest firefox-esr, it seems there's something blocking it from migrating to Debian testing: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/firefox-esr | 02:49 |
| UsL | ah, that makes sense | 02:50 |
| Wikiwide | Sounds like xfce4 upgrade has deprive me of orage. What is a convenient calendar to put as an item into xfce4 panel? | 03:29 |
| Velvet | date/time | 03:29 |
| * Wikiwide wonders why wmcalclock isn't available | 03:43 | |
| Wikiwide | Switching to whiskermenu instead of appmenu, for XFCE4. | 03:53 |
| Wikiwide | Because appmenu tried to pull in too many dependencies. appmenu-registrar bamfdaemon... | 03:55 |
| blockhead | hasn't xfce got its own menus? been a while since i used bit but i remember it did? | 03:56 |
| Wikiwide | I used to use appmenu, back in beowulf, but when I upgraded to chimaera, somehow appmenu disappeared, and attempt to reinstall it spoke of new packages to be installed. Since I am not a fan of these so-called global menus, I am switching to whiskermenu which doesn't pull in as many dependencies. | 04:03 |
| * Wikiwide doesn't even remember why there was Ruby installed | 04:06 | |
| Wikiwide | Or Qt, for that matter. | 04:07 |
| Wikiwide | There were 429671 files and directories currently installed, now 412204. | 04:13 |
| Wikiwide | Should I apt purge linux-image-4.19.0-8-amd64 and linux-headers-4.19.0-8-common ? | 04:15 |
| gnarface | well, you need a kernel, do you have any others? | 04:17 |
| gnarface | sometimes it's useful to keep a few different versions in case something goes wrong with one of them | 04:18 |
| Wikiwide | https://10.1.1.98:4242/file/2/XzpYxPAPS3SCHa1q | 04:19 |
| Wikiwide | I have linux-headers-4.19.0-10-common linux-headers-4.19.0-14-common linux-headers-4.19.0-17-common linux-headers-4.19.0-18-common linux-headers-4.19.0-9-common linux-headers-4.9.0-11-amd64 | 04:20 |
| Wikiwide | linux-headers-4.9.0-11-common linux-headers-4.9.0-9-amd64 linux-headers-4.9.0-9-common linux-image-4.19.0-10-amd64 linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64 linux-image-4.19.0-17-amd64 linux-image-4.19.0-9-amd64 linux-image-4.9.0-11-amd64 linux-image-4.9.0-9-amd64 | 04:20 |
| * Wikiwide scowls at my current IRC client; idle capability and writing down logs are the best parts, but turning long messages into pastebin without warning is annoying | 04:21 | |
| gnarface | well you only need one linux-image technically, and you only need the accompanying linux-headers for that version if you have a driver that needs dkms (or if you're building your own stuff against it) | 04:22 |
| adhoc | Wikiwide: I keep the current kernel and the second most recent one | 04:41 |
| adhoc | unless there is a history of interesting kernel boot problems on a particular machine | 04:41 |
| temp_name | hey all. i'm trying to install devuan in a VM via the netinst iso but can't reach either of the mirrors provided. | 06:05 |
| onefang | Can't reach the Internet at all, or just a couple of mirrors? And which mirrors? | 06:06 |
| temp_name | there are two mirrors provided by the installer. can't remember the names, precisely. i'm using a NAT virtual adapter w/ vmware player. this works with other VMs. i'm away from home and using a windows host, not super familiar with vmware. | 06:08 |
| onefang | I thought the installers only used deb.devuan.org as the mirror. | 06:10 |
| temp_name | there's a second one now, apparently | 06:10 |
| temp_name | i can check it out if you'd like, but i don't think it'll help my case | 06:10 |
| onefang | You didn't answer my other question. Can it reach the Internet at all? | 06:11 |
| temp_name | i'll boot it live (if the netinst has the option, can't remember) and check | 06:12 |
| temp_name | it doesn't | 06:13 |
| temp_name | oh, the ipv4/6 autoconf works fine | 06:14 |
| onefang | So that's not a problem with the mirrors (which I could help with), but a problem with the VMs networking (which I can't help with, I'm not familiar with VMware). | 06:14 |
| temp_name | no, it works fine | 06:15 |
| temp_name | the installer just set the time via whichever daemon devuan uses | 06:15 |
| temp_name | ntpd? | 06:16 |
| onefang | Likely. | 06:16 |
| temp_name | i'm not a linux noob, just a devuan noob. | 06:17 |
| temp_name | would use gentoo if i had my druthers but don't feel like compiling so much on a laptop vm | 06:17 |
| temp_name | pkgmaster.devuan.org is the second mirror fwiw | 06:18 |
| onefang | Ah, probably for the security stuff. | 06:18 |
| onefang | deb.devuan.org will be the first one. It's a DNS round robin that'll point to one of hte other mirrors. | 06:19 |
| onefang | My mirror checking script says they are all up. | 06:19 |
| temp_name | failed to access the mirror """. i've tried both. can ping from cmd in windows. definitely a vm thing. | 06:20 |
| temp_name | should've pinged first. | 06:20 |
| onefang | Would have been less stress on the Devuan package mirror herder. B-) | 06:21 |
| temp_name | X( sry | 06:21 |
| onefang | Hopefully someone that knows VMware will be along to help soon. | 06:21 |
| temp_name | kinda hate windows. | 06:21 |
| onefang | Preaching to the choir. lol | 06:22 |
| temp_name | identical config w/ an ubuntu vm that works fine | 06:22 |
| temp_name | and a kali vm | 06:22 |
| temp_name | and some strange thing that isn't even unix based | 06:22 |
| critr | firmware problem? | 06:23 |
| temp_name | if only temple OS had networking and wasn't insane, i'd be set | 06:23 |
| Yonle | Major templeos rules: No internet, So no virus | 06:23 |
| temp_name | critr: doubt it. i have a feeling that plenty of people use devuan in vmware player without an issue | 06:23 |
| onefang | I use Devuan in Qemu with no problems. | 06:24 |
| Yonle | Me too, Using Devuan in QEMU TCG without problems | 06:24 |
| temp_name | i'd be using qemu if i were at home :P | 06:24 |
| temp_name | on the road and using a windows laptop : | 06:25 |
| temp_name | s/:/:( | 06:25 |
| Yonle | Replace that windows as devuan. | 06:26 |
| Yonle | And install Plasma Desktop | 06:26 |
| temp_name | meh, i'd do gentoo. definitely KDE tho | 06:26 |
| temp_name | not going to compile or set flags on a VM but don't want sysdick, either | 06:27 |
| Yonle | Plasma always gud | 06:27 |
| temp_name | aye. almost as light as the super slim stuff yet has thumbnails in the file picker ;) | 06:27 |
| Yonle | By the way, I'm trying to use runit on devuan, But i think i'm still on sysvinit | 06:28 |
| Yonle | And hey. Sysinit is still powerfull | 06:28 |
| temp_name | openRC is an option, right? | 06:28 |
| Yonle | Yeah, openrc is | 06:29 |
| Yonle | I just want to try runit, since i never use it before lol | 06:29 |
| temp_name | that'll do for me, then | 06:29 |
| Yonle | Currently i replaced sysvinit to openrc | 06:30 |
| Yonle | And does using sysvinit still ok till today? | 06:30 |
| * enyc meows Yonle temp_name critr | 06:30 | |
| * Yonle pats enyc | 06:31 | |
| temp_name | i'll download the live image and see if i can connect, i guess. | 06:31 |
| Yonle | Well, also check sha256sum hash | 06:31 |
| Yonle | After download. | 06:31 |
| * enyc not been looking at devuan in a while... I have a chroot devuan on one systemf for historical reasons, and a boot into devuan chimaera on netbook | 06:31 | |
| enyc | I'm curious what ongoing problems with integrations, auto-mounting, that sort of thing persisting in current release | 06:32 |
| Yonle | Well, I've been installed Devuan on my Laptop | 06:32 |
| Yonle | Not in a VM | 06:32 |
| Yonle | apt database is already there, so i don't need `apt update` every startup | 06:33 |
| temp_name | systemf? | 06:33 |
| temp_name | is that two iterations after systemd? | 06:33 |
| * Yonle shrugs | 06:33 | |
| critr | enyc, auto-mounting is working well for me with current devuan | 06:34 |
| temp_name | i really should just rip the windows key out of this laptop and use it to make a windows VM in qemu. haven't really cared to until now. | 06:34 |
| critr | makes sense to me | 06:35 |
| * enyc meows critr | 06:38 | |
| enyc | temp_name: I'm actualy confused, not sure what windows key means in terms of creating vm | 06:46 |
| enyc | temp_name: windows works without windows key too, and windows key can be used as win+E and various shortcuts already... | 06:46 |
| onefang | Windows LICENSE key. | 06:47 |
| temp_name | enyc: that comment was tangential. as in "remove windows from the metal, use it in a VM if necessary" | 06:47 |
| enyc | onefang: aaaaaaaaaah | 06:48 |
| enyc | yes, I'm used to using an ibm-model-m keyboard without windows keys ;p | 06:48 |
| temp_name | CLICK CLACK | 06:49 |
| enyc | temp_name: theres' a procedure for that... you can link windows license to m$ account first, this makes process easier | 06:49 |
| temp_name | matias switches are pretty good too | 06:49 |
| temp_name | enyc: there's a powershell command that prints the license key in plaintext | 06:49 |
| enyc | temp_name: certainly have those who have done this, moved windows toVM etc... | 06:50 |
| temp_name | i don't have a problem with that | 06:50 |
| enyc | temp_name: even for digital-license auto-created-on-update? | 06:50 |
| temp_name | no idea, but i've used it before | 06:50 |
| onefang | I'v gone the other way, dd a Windows VM to a hard disk, booted with no license issue. But this is off topic for a Devuan support channel. | 06:50 |
| temp_name | i get the XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXX-XXXXX (whatever) string of characters and use them to activate the OS once i install it in a MV | 06:50 |
| temp_name | s/MV/VM | 06:50 |
| enyc | VirtualBox worked fine on Devuan ... not tried LibVirt/virt-manager/kvm approach as yet | 06:51 |
| Yonle | clack | 06:51 |
| onefang | libvirt and friends is just a wrapper around other VM systems. | 06:52 |
| temp_name | libvert ~= virtmanager ~= qemu/kvm for most | 06:52 |
| Yonle | By the way, i wasted 2 GB of Bandwith just for downloading devuan iso le mao | 06:52 |
| Yonle | But WORTH IT | 06:53 |
| onefang | I just script my quem/KVM VMs, coz there's things that libvirt and virtmanager can't do. | 06:53 |
| temp_name | okay, update. trying to download the live-desktop iso from c3l.lu and the download has frozen | 06:54 |
| onefang | If it doesn't unfreeze, try downloading it from sledjhamr.org | 06:55 |
| onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/ | 06:55 |
| temp_name | my point is that i can't download packages from deb.devuan.org | 06:55 |
| temp_name | and i can't download a file from devuan.c3l.lu | 06:56 |
| temp_name | despite the fact that i'm obviously connected to the net | 06:56 |
| temp_name | maybe incredibly bad luck | 06:56 |
| onefang | Soo, back to "the problem is in your VM network setup". | 06:56 |
| temp_name | no, i'm downloading the live iso from the host system. the system that i'm using to type and send this | 06:56 |
| temp_name | different domains, obv | 06:57 |
| temp_name | (referring to devuan.org and c3l.lu) | 06:58 |
| adhoc | deb.devuan.org has had ongoing issues this week | 06:59 |
| onefang | As I mentioned deb.devuan.org is a DNS round robin. It'll point you to one of the package mirrors. | 07:00 |
| adhoc | either DNS resolution failure or not being able to tracroute to it | 07:00 |
| onefang | Sooo, when saying things like deb.devuan.or isn't working, please try to specify WHICH mirror it pointed you to. | 07:00 |
| adhoc | can't tell if the DNS fails to resolve ? | 07:01 |
| adhoc | point taken, will make notes next time | 07:01 |
| temp_name1 | tracert times out after ae9.cs1.den5.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.30.102] | 07:03 |
| onefang | Traceroute to what? | 07:04 |
| temp_name1 | deb.devuan.org | 07:04 |
| onefang | Which IP? | 07:04 |
| temp_name1 | not sure how to see which site that's directing me to | 07:04 |
| temp_name1 | s/site/mirror | 07:04 |
| temp_name1 | 131.188.12.211 | 07:05 |
| onefang | deb.devuan.org will give you one of the mirror IPs, traceroute shows you the resolved IP at the top. | 07:05 |
| temp_name1 | from "ping" command in windows cmd shell | 07:05 |
| onefang | That's ftp.fau.de package mirror. | 07:05 |
| temp_name1 | based germany | 07:05 |
| temp_name1 | is there a command to get a shell in the installer? kb shortcut or something? | 07:06 |
| temp_name1 | i can try it there, too, if so | 07:06 |
| onefang | Traceroute worked fine to that IP from Australia and Netherlands. | 07:07 |
| temp_name1 | aye, mine eventually got there after a few wrong turns. using satellite net now | 07:07 |
| temp_name1 | kinda latency heavy | 07:07 |
| temp_name1 | maybe i'm just getting timeouts in the installer | 07:08 |
| critr | mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/ usually works really well for me. | 07:08 |
| temp_name1 | got like four of them during the tracert | 07:08 |
| onefang | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt would help to pick a near by package mirror. | 07:09 |
| temp_name1 | can i specify the mirror manually during the netinst process? | 07:10 |
| Yonle | critr, I also download on that mirror | 07:11 |
| Yonle | temp_name1, I think That should be possible | 07:12 |
| onefang | Also lots of people tend to recommend sledjhamr,org, I do to, but I'm biased. It's mine. B-) | 07:13 |
| onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/ for ISOs and https://sledjhamr.org/devuan/ for packages. | 07:15 |
| temp_name1 | Yonle: been awhile since i've used the blue/gray/red installer thing | 07:18 |
| Yonle | I see | 07:19 |
| temp_name1 | onefang: trying now. going no faster than the c3l one. | 07:19 |
| temp_name1 | well, 68 KB/s rather than 53 | 07:20 |
| adhoc | onefang: neat | 07:28 |
| adhoc | onefang: is there doco for creating more mirrors ? | 07:29 |
| onefang | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt | 07:29 |
| adhoc | shiny https://sledjhamr.org/devuan-cd/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ | 07:30 |
| adhoc | onefang: ta | 07:30 |
| onefang | Though it's on my TODO to update that, but it's mostly good. | 07:30 |
| adhoc | was hoping to make an internal mirror at home or work | 07:31 |
| adhoc | to keep the traffic down as my build server warms up | 07:31 |
| adhoc | come chrismas i will be adding about 20U of machines to the cluster | 07:32 |
| adhoc | at home | 07:32 |
| onefang | apt-mirror might be easier. | 07:33 |
| Yonle | Well, is anybody run blastem emulator on Devuan? | 07:35 |
| temp_name1 | fuggin windows, man. "antimalware service executable" is now using tons of cycles and forcing the fans on. i don't use any antivirus on linux/stallman | 07:36 |
| Yonle | Heh | 07:36 |
| Yonle | Antivirus in Linux is completely stuoid | 07:36 |
| Yonle | But not for Useful VirusTotal | 07:36 |
| temp_name1 | it is stupid everywhere | 07:36 |
| Yonle | Yeah | 07:36 |
| temp_name1 | fix bugs in the system as they're found | 07:36 |
| Yonle | Like, There's a virus, You can kill them right? | 07:36 |
| temp_name1 | i suppose that windows is so spaghetti and widely used that this is no longer an option | 07:37 |
| Yonle | You say, After windows 11 | 07:37 |
| Yonle | A modern useless CSS of Windows 10 | 07:37 |
| temp_name1 | lel windows 11 | 07:37 |
| Yonle | lol | 07:38 |
| onefang | That's a topic for #devuan-offtopic. | 07:38 |
| Yonle | I just wanted to mention it onefang, Also thanks | 07:38 |
| onefang | Coz the only answer to Windows support questions you'l get here is "wipe it, install Devuan". B-) | 07:38 |
| Yonle | B-) | 07:40 |
| temp_name1 | well, the desktop-live iso can connect to the net without any problems | 07:53 |
| temp_name1 | fwiw | 07:53 |
| chomwitt | i have http://deb.devuan.org/ as source but is not listed in http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt | 10:43 |
| debdog | deb. is not a mirror. it's a round robin thingy. chomwitt | 10:49 |
| chomwitt | i see. | 11:08 |
| onefang | So when you go to deb.devuan.org, you end up at one of the mirrors in that list that have "DNSRR: yes". | 11:10 |
| user______ | I see mke2fs using an inordinate amount of time to format USB sticks, almost 2 minutes for just 5GB. Is this normal, with no -c option used, USB 2.0 connected USB 3.0 flash stick? | 11:34 |
| user______ | This is very slow. Additionally, the message 'Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information:' is initially showing 0/254 etc then remains blank. So the up-count normally seen is not present. Is this a new bug in mke2fs? | 11:34 |
| user______ | The command does succeed, and time elapsed is proportional to size of partition written, but this looks like a new bug in mke2fs? | 11:38 |
| GyrosGeier | the inode tables take a while to write | 11:51 |
| GyrosGeier | you can shorten this with ext4 and background init, but then it will just happen in the background while it's mounted | 11:52 |
| GyrosGeier | if you expect that you will only use the stick for few large files, then you can reduce the inodes-per-block ratio | 11:53 |
| GyrosGeier | but in general ext tries to avoid moving the heads to the start of the partition all the time | 11:54 |
| GyrosGeier | so these tables need to be distributed | 11:54 |
| Yonle | Fact: Konversation is KDE IRC | 11:56 |
| user______ | There are no heads to move in a flash disk GyrosGeier | 12:03 |
| user______ | Is the lack of printout in mke2fs at the 'Writing superblocks...' phase a new "feature"? It used to print what it is doing in the past, reassuring users that it is not stuck. Drive light stays off during this time, it appears dead/stuck and is in unkillable IO wait state (ps .. +D). | 12:05 |
| user______ | This of actuality for Beowulf e2fstools? | 12:06 |
| user______ | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/254696/formatting-an-sdcard-with-mkfs-hangs-indefinitely | 12:06 |
| onefang | Any errors in the logs? | 12:07 |
| user______ | e2fsprogs is at 1.44.5-1+deb10 | 12:07 |
| user______ | onefang: no | 12:07 |
| GyrosGeier | yes | 12:10 |
| user______ | ? | 12:10 |
| GyrosGeier | but ext2 doesn't know that there are no heads and movement is cheap | 12:10 |
| user______ | GyrosGeier: it does not know but it does not matter what it does, i.e. write order. | 12:11 |
| GyrosGeier | you can't have progress indication without making it slower | 12:11 |
| user______ | The flash actually does like sequential sorted writes too | 12:11 |
| user______ | GyrosGeier: updating a number in a terminal once every few seconds is not going to slow it down. | 12:11 |
| GyrosGeier | but it would need to know what has been written yet | 12:12 |
| GyrosGeier | the program just dumps a bunch of writes into the device, which are acknowledged immediately | 12:12 |
| GyrosGeier | then closing the device forces all these writes out | 12:12 |
| GyrosGeier | so from mke2fs perspective, all the write()s are done, and close() takes a few minutes | 12:13 |
| user______ | 12 minutes to create a 32GB partition on a disk with 5MBps write speed means writing 3.6GB . Really? Write 36GB of info on a 32GB partition to format it? What is this, Windows? | 12:13 |
| user______ | I'm going to try again soon with mke2fs -D to see how slow it gets with direct io. | 12:13 |
| GyrosGeier | are you sure you have 5MB/s write speed? | 12:14 |
| user______ | Yes. | 12:14 |
| GyrosGeier | you can run "watch cat /proc/meminfo" in parallel | 12:14 |
| user______ | I looked at iostat or such, nothing interesting. | 12:15 |
| GyrosGeier | the "Dirty" and "Writeback" numbers are what's interesting there | 12:15 |
| GyrosGeier | because that's the state of the cache | 12:15 |
| user______ | The point is, on hdd disk formatting, the counter seemed to show in this phase (long wait), so the lack of counter may be a side effect of writing to flash and or a new bug / bit rot in e2fsprogs | 12:16 |
| user______ | Anyway, it did finish without errors. So it's just a beauty spot then, no updating counter while formatting. | 12:17 |
| user______ | So is that link above relevant to Beowulf or not? ext4 corruption? | 12:17 |
| user______ | Seems to reference bugs from 2015 too, not clear what is fixed and what not. There was no update on this recently in Beowulf. | 12:18 |
| * user______ notices with considerable displeasure that ISO9660 images do not have a proper UUID when listed with blkid/ldblk | 12:24 | |
| user______ | *lsblk | 12:25 |
| user______ | It's just a fake UUID made up from date/time and a nonce (I hope) | 12:26 |
| user______ | Okay, this is ridiculous, tune2fs -L "newlabel" /dev/sdc3 (which is the just formatted USB stick partition), took in excess of 5 seconds to run. | 12:31 |
| user______ | Something is badly broken in *fstools. | 12:31 |
| GyrosGeier | I'd expect the problem on USB | 12:41 |
| GyrosGeier | especially when you say "5 seconds" | 12:41 |
| GyrosGeier | that is a magic number | 12:41 |
| GyrosGeier | Dirty pages become Writeback after five seconds | 12:42 |
| GyrosGeier | so it seems the close() doesn't properly flush the pages, but still waits for them to be written | 12:42 |
| user______ | Following updates today, which did not update Vivaldi, xfce again opens a lot of documents by default in vivaldi, which is not the default browser. This is not good. Including PDF! | 12:45 |
| user______ | This joke needs termination. Last time this happened I took a dive in xfce config innards using strace -ff to find what was changed. I will do that again, and file a complaint with vivaldi. Who is with me? | 12:46 |
| user______ | ?! | 13:18 |
| * enyc meows user______ | 13:26 | |
| * user______ starts the small fluffy white dog on enyc | 13:33 | |
| Thominus | Greetings Devuanians! :) | 13:34 |
| UsL | Hello Thominus | 13:34 |
| Thominus | I'm curious if its possible to deboostrap build a devuan target from within Debian/Bullseye? | 13:36 |
| UsL | I've seen no reported issues about it. But I am not always looking either | 13:38 |
| onefang | If I recall correctly, I did that from some version of Debian to ASCII. | 13:50 |
| Thominus | Right, I think I just have to install Devuan's debootstrap scripts | 13:54 |
| hyrc | hey! i went into a store without a mask! and i forced the issue! | 14:20 |
| hyrc | it was great! | 14:20 |
| hyrc | they made me put one on and i started pissing on the floor | 14:20 |
| hyrc | lol | 14:20 |
| hyrc | this little girl was like wut | 14:22 |
| hyrc | looking at my penis | 14:22 |
| hyrc | pissing on the floor | 14:22 |
| hyrc | of the supermarket | 14:22 |
| hyrc | it was awesome | 14:22 |
| UsL | hyrc: you should take that to offtopic. Or, rather nowhere. | 14:25 |
| hyrc | you suck lies | 14:27 |
| hyrc | go die | 14:27 |
| hyrc | die | 14:27 |
| hyrc | you love lies | 14:28 |
| hyrc | die | 14:28 |
| user______ | ooh it's you again. Banned soon? | 14:37 |
| user_____ | Is there any specific policy on nick squatting? I've registered 3 nicks which are not so popular?! or were not, now every time I log on, I find them in use by the same guy, specifically user@195.142.234.150 -- this is becoming annoying since I do not always log on with pass/nick depending on devices. So, is there a policy on such problems? | 15:44 |
| onefang | That's up to the IRC server people, not us. | 15:45 |
| user_____ | Sorry wrong channel. | 15:45 |
| user_____ | It was meant to go on #libera | 15:45 |
| onefang | Yeah, that might be a butter choice of channel. | 15:45 |
| onefang | Er *better* | 15:45 |
| UsL | no one can squat a nick if it's registered. | 18:17 |
| AnimaInvicta | If some else is using your registered nick, you can bounce them and reclaim it. See https://libera.chat/guides/faq#why-is-my-nickname-in-use | 18:24 |
| onefang | I suspect used____ got their message to the correct #libera channel, and likely got those proper answers. | 18:26 |
| hyrc | so | 19:56 |
| hyrc | do any | 19:57 |
| joerg | hey, the k-line expired? | 20:20 |
| nemo | kline? | 20:20 |
| joerg | tomaw: [Saturday, 30 October 2021] [17:26:34 CEST]|Quit| hyrc (~hyrc@p57bbe3cc.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left this server (K-Lined). | 20:33 |
| onefang | It's still here though. | 20:34 |
| joerg | that's why I just pinged "staff" aka tomaw | 20:35 |
| tomaw | yes, klines expire | 20:35 |
| joerg | :nod: maybe time to refresh ? :-) | 20:35 |
| tomaw | it's also a different address | 20:35 |
| joerg | ok, no antisemitism this time, just exhibitionism | 20:35 |
| joerg | yeah, dynamic host | 20:36 |
| joerg | 24h DHCP DSL | 20:36 |
| morroot | afair ban≠kick | 20:37 |
| joerg | yes | 20:37 |
| joerg | ban implies quiet though | 20:37 |
| used____ | I fixed my nick squatting problem by moving off of user____ heh. Re: enforce on nick: undesirable since it will force me off if I do not register and use it. That was the point, I needed to be able to use "my" nicks when registered or not. | 20:50 |
| joerg | used____: you notice the paradox in that? | 20:52 |
| used____ | :) | 20:52 |
| joerg | when you're not authenticated there's no such thing like "your" nicks | 20:53 |
| used____ | when you're not authed the nicks are available on a first arrived first served basis. | 20:54 |
| joerg | you may adjust the timespan in seconds you got to authenticate after /nick <protectednick> | 20:54 |
| used____ | I know, but it would have to be infinite sometimes :) | 20:55 |
| used____ | This should be in #*-offtopic ? | 20:55 |
| joerg | that's the same like "enforce off" | 20:55 |
| used____ | Yes. | 20:56 |
| joerg | yes, not on topic in here either, but... | 20:56 |
| VanillaDjinn | Hello, gentlemen. I've booted the minimal live Devuan. I have several GRUB options, some of them have "std" in brackets, some of them have "access." What do these words mean? | 21:30 |
| gnarface | i can't even imagine. can you hit "e" and paste the command-line options from one of each ? | 21:31 |
| gnarface | i haven't seen it in a while but i might be able to guess | 21:31 |
| used____ | How could he copy paste from a boot screen... (take a pic and upload it!) >> VanillaDjinn | 21:33 |
| gnarface | oh, yea i guess that's dumb | 21:35 |
| gnarface | but you could copy the grub entries after boot | 21:35 |
| gnarface | or just type a few out by hand... | 21:35 |
| VanillaDjinn | It seems like the difference is in the VGA parameter. | 21:35 |
| used____ | The right ones? ;) | 21:35 |
| VanillaDjinn | It's either "auto" or "normal." | 21:35 |
| gnarface | hmm, interesting | 21:35 |
| used____ | Yes, but do you have display trouble? | 21:36 |
| VanillaDjinn | No. | 21:36 |
| used____ | Rephrased: what is the real problem? | 21:36 |
| gnarface | the real problem is we don't know wtf "std" and "access" mean | 21:36 |
| gnarface | but i assume it made sense to someone | 21:36 |
| VanillaDjinn | I just don't know which option to choose. | 21:36 |
| used____ | Default? Press ENTER? | 21:36 |
| gnarface | i'd pick the default yea unless it gives me trouble | 21:37 |
| VanillaDjinn | Alright. | 21:37 |
| gnarface | there might not be much difference except that with some displays one of them won't work | 21:37 |
| gnarface | weird display hardware, analog adapters, odd aspect ratios, they can all throw off auto-detection | 21:38 |
| gnarface | it's less commonly a problem with typical lcd monitors these days | 21:38 |
| gnarface | but CRTs were a world of hurt and projectors are still hit and miss | 21:39 |
| * used____ regularly wrestles with linux kernel boot cli's which assume VGA is present in text-only tiny installs, accompanied by cussing which would make some of my ancestors who were in the horse and carriage business proud. | 21:39 | |
| VanillaDjinn | My laptop has an LCD monitor. | 21:39 |
| used____ | gnarface: projectors can be very good but not for the price of a consumer one. | 21:39 |
| used____ | gnarface: consider projectors exist which do daylight huge screen projection (12x4 meters etc) | 21:40 |
| gnarface | used____: i just mean specifically about auto-detecting without custom modelines and stuff | 21:40 |
| gnarface | built-in laptop panel should have no problems | 21:40 |
| used____ | Oh that is again another dish, related to BIOS level VGA settings which are typically very different from the GPU/running system's modes. | 21:41 |
| used____ | In general, if no GPU is present, the mode may stay as booted or not when X11 comes up. With GPU it ALWAYS changes on X11 start. | 21:41 |
| used____ | Not just mode but sometimes graphics output is switched from VGA emulation in chipset to GPU output. | 21:42 |
| used____ | So "it depends" | 21:42 |
| gnarface | yea, and i've had additional problems caused by digital->analog adapters in the chain, or even just HDMI version mismatches | 21:42 |
| gnarface | but like i said, a laptop's built-in LCD panel should have no problem | 21:43 |
| gnarface | unless it's something super bleeding-edge like a pinebook | 21:43 |
| used____ | HDMI and USB connected monitors add yet another dimension to the mayhem. | 21:43 |
| VanillaDjinn | Pinebook is bleeding edge? | 21:43 |
| used____ | gnarface: fwiw for almost 10 years, my Asus old laptop booted with "one line too few" in BIOS screen, which became ok during linux kernel boot, and then again went off when X11 started. No GPU. Just off by one errors are a thing. | 21:44 |
| gnarface | VanillaDjinn: yea upstream support didn't get mainlined display panel until some kernel after beowulf | 21:44 |
| gnarface | VanillaDjinn: *didn't get mainlined for the display panel | 21:45 |
| gnarface | at least until after the beowulf kernel, actually not 100% sure it's even in there yet, been using patches for so long | 21:45 |
| mro | VanillaDjinn: own both an old and pro pinebook and can confirm both bleeding as well as edge :-( | 21:45 |
| used____ | Does bleeding edge mean they only work with binary blobs which are not open source? | 21:46 |
| used____ | Like Rpi? | 21:46 |
| gnarface | used____: no no. nothing like that except for the broadcom wifi chip, nothing on par with the vendor lock-in of the rpi, they tried very hard to avoid that but were up against a wall on the available wifi devices they could afford to put in it under budget | 21:47 |
| gnarface | used____: everything else just had no open-source driver at all prior | 21:48 |
| used____ | Atheros belongs to Broadcom too now? | 21:48 |
| * gnarface doesn't know | 21:48 | |
| * gnarface hates broadcom | 21:48 | |
| used____ | 5GHz wifi is doomed to run with encrypted blob firmware due to FCC rulings. Co-use of 5GHz band with weather radar. | 21:49 |
| used____ | Atheros belongs to Qualcomm. | 21:49 |
| gnarface | heh, yea speaking of which has anyone here had any luck with any wifi devices under linux that can route traffic for a iphone? | 21:51 |
| used____ | route meaning? | 21:51 |
| gnarface | act as a router for | 21:51 |
| VanillaDjinn | Looked at Pinebook Pro's specs. Hexacore Rockchip, hmmmm… | 21:51 |
| used____ | iPhone is happily routed by any Openwrt flashed router gnarface | 21:51 |
| gnarface | latest one only supports wifi 6 though, no? | 21:52 |
| used____ | Oh that. I don't know. | 21:52 |
| used____ | I think it does all, plus 6. | 21:52 |
| gnarface | of which google tells me there's at least 2 capable linux devices | 21:52 |
| VanillaDjinn | It seems that Pinebook Pro has only 4 gigs of RAM though. | 21:52 |
| gnarface | VanillaDjinn: yea zram for swap helps firefox a lot | 21:52 |
| gnarface | VanillaDjinn: (also for large compilations, surprisingly) | 21:54 |
| plasma41 | `apt source freeorion/ceres` errors out with "E: Can not find version '0.4.10.1-1' of package 'freeorion'" instead of downloading the source of the version of freeorion that should be in ceres, specifically 0.4.10.2-1. See also https://packages.debian.org/source/unstable/freeorion | 22:38 |
| plasma41 | I've checked sources.list and run apt update. | 22:39 |
| bb|hcb | do you have a ceres deb-src entry in sources.list? | 22:43 |
| rwp | Also: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=freeorion&x=submit | 22:44 |
| plasma41 | bb|hcb: yes | 22:44 |
| rwp | plasma41, I had no trouble downloading the ceres source to 0.4.10.2-1 which is now current in ceres. | 22:49 |
| rwp | Perhaps it needs a forgotten "apt-get update" to update your local index Package files? | 22:49 |
| bb|hcb | I have also tried and it breaks on chimaera... | 22:49 |
| plasma41 | rwp: See above ^ "I've checked sources.list and run apt update." | 22:50 |
| rwp | Well... Worked for me just now when I did it. That's all I can say. | 22:50 |
| rwp | Maybe you are getting a broken mirror site? You may need to force selection of a specific mirror. | 22:50 |
| bb|hcb | I could fix that by adding a ceres deb entry, then update and it works, but I will have to remove that and update again or I will end upgrading to ceres | 22:50 |
| rwp | Let me try it for chimaera. I only tried ceres because I thought that was what I read in the above "apt source freeorion/ceres" mention. | 22:51 |
| bb|hcb | There was some way to make the entry with lower priority but I do not know exactly how to | 22:51 |
| bb|hcb | So apt source needs both deb and deb-src entries for ceres - this wasn't like that in the past | 22:52 |
| rwp | I had no trouble downloading the source for 0.4.10.1-1 from chimaera. | 22:52 |
| bb|hcb | rwp: The version is ceres is 0.4.10.2-1 | 22:53 |
| rwp | Which means I think you may be having a problem with a broken mirror. Perhaps you will need to force a specific different mirror. | 22:53 |
| plasma41 | The verbatim line in my sources.list is | 22:53 |
| plasma41 | deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ ceres main contrib non-free | 22:53 |
| rwp | bb|hcb, I was just told above that plasma41 did not want the version from ceres which I tested first and wanted the one from chimaera. So switched. | 22:53 |
| rwp | But I have now successfully downloaded both the version from chimaera and the version from ceres both with no trouble found. | 22:54 |
| rwp | pkgmaster is the master server. Should be no trouble from there. | 22:54 |
| rwp | Must note the PSA that generally people are asked to avoid pkgmaster because it is the master. But okay for this for sure. | 22:55 |
| plasma41 | bb|hcb: "So apt source needs both deb and deb-src entries for ceres - this wasn't like that in the past" Since when? Where is that documented? | 22:55 |
| rwp | deb entries are for compiled binary packages and deb-src are for source | 22:55 |
| rwp | That must be documented in a dozen different places about sources.list files. | 22:56 |
| bb|hcb | No idea, I was doing that 5-10years back and it worked with only deb-src for sid | 22:56 |
| rwp | Starting with "man sources.list" but also elsewhere. | 22:56 |
| rwp | bb|hcb, Let me confirm that you are saying that deb-src is all that is needed??? | 22:57 |
| bb|hcb | Very long time ago - yes; now I tried and it does not work without a deb entry | 22:57 |
| rwp | Correct. But my history with it only goes back to woody days. I don't know if it was different before then. | 22:58 |
| rwp | There may have been some internal default that was used if one was not specified. | 22:58 |
| bb|hcb | BTW. there is a better way to get the package source - find the dsc file and use dget on it | 22:59 |
| bb|hcb | dget https://deb.debian.org/debian/pool/main/f/freeorion/freeorion_0.4.10.2-1.dsc | 22:59 |
| rwp | plasma41, So are things good for you now? You have the source that you wanted? Or is there still more debugging needed? | 23:00 |
| plasma41 | Needing a deb line to download a source package with 'apt source' sounds ridiculous and, if true, has got to be a bug. | 23:00 |
| rwp | bb|hcb, I use "apt-get source freeorion" and it will download the set of files needed. | 23:00 |
| rwp | And "apt-get download freeorion" would download the binary compiled .deb file for it. | 23:01 |
| bb|hcb | For the installed release, yes. But normally you need the source from another release | 23:01 |
| rwp | But these days a lot of development is done using the git way instead. And apt-get source will pass along the hint to use git to check out the source instead. | 23:01 |
| rwp | bb|hcb, What *I* do is change the deb-src lines to the release I want, apt-get update, then apt-get source to get the source for it. | 23:02 |
| plasma41 | bb|hcb: "BTW. there is a better way to get the package source - find the dsc file and use dget on it" I would argue that 'apt source' is better as I don't first need to find the dsc file; it happens automatically. | 23:02 |
| rwp | There is no danger of accidentally upgrading to a different release suite by having deb-src lines for a different release. Since upgrades only deal with deb lines not deb-src lines. | 23:02 |
| rwp | There is also the web page for people who want to pull things off of a web page. | 23:03 |
| bb|hcb | plasma41: OK, OK, no point to argue - that is a personal preference... | 23:03 |
| bb|hcb | rwp: True, but that does not work for some reason, most probably a bug as plasma41 said | 23:04 |
| rwp | I don't see it on the devuan page... But https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/freeorion has links on the right side nav area to download the source files. | 23:04 |
| bb|hcb | Try this one: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/freeorion | 23:05 |
| rwp | Try it for what? | 23:05 |
| plasma41 | Fwiw, I have the sort of personality where even if I can use a workaround to get something (in this case manually downloading the specific freeorion source), I'm unsatisfied until I can diagnose and fix what was causing the issue in the first place (why won't apt source work properly). | 23:08 |
| rwp | plasma41, So are things good for you now? You have the source that you wanted? Or is there still more debugging needed? | 23:09 |
| plasma41 | I still don't understand why 'apt source' isn't doing what I think it should. | 23:10 |
| rwp | Can you paste your sources.list file? | 23:10 |
| rwp | Into a pastebin. Not the channel. Thanks. | 23:10 |
| rwp | plasma41, Osamu Aoki's excellent Debian Reference on this topic: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_debian_archive_basics | 23:12 |
| plasma41 | rwp: Here's the whole verbatim enchilada: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/d109ffe0/ | 23:13 |
| rwp | plasma41, The Devuan page on source.list https://www.devuan.org/os/packages | 23:14 |
| rwp | Oh my... That is 94 lines long! I think mine are eight lines long and three of those are blank lines. | 23:15 |
| rwp | I am going to let my system sort it out. I am replacing my current sources.list with it and then updating and then looking to see what results. | 23:16 |
| plasma41 | Most of it is commented out. I occasionally uncomment a specific line temporarily when I need something specific, usually for historical comparison. | 23:17 |
| rwp | For some reason that is now giving me an unsupported ftp warning. Which makes me think one of those is redirecting to ftp. | 23:19 |
| plasma41 | That's the linux-libre repo | 23:19 |
| rwp | The last one on line 94 maybe? What is the "mirror://" protocol? That's not normal. | 23:19 |
| plasma41 | That one should be safe to ignore | 23:20 |
| rwp | Anyway... I replaced my sources.list with that file you pasted verbatim. I updated. Then apt-get source is downloading freeorion 0.4.10.1-1 with no download problem. (I ran out of disk space on that small VM I was using for this testing.) | 23:21 |
| rwp | It's also telling me "git clone https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/freeorion.git" too. So there is that as well. | 23:21 |
| plasma41 | 0.4.10.1-1 is not the version that should be downloading if 'apt source freeorion/ceres' was specified. 0.4.10.2-1 is. | 23:22 |
| rwp | With the pasted source.list I see the same problem you have been reporting. With my short one I do not. | 23:27 |
| plasma41 | rrq, onefang: Any insights? ^^^ | 23:27 |
| rwp | I am commenting out active lines one at a time and looping looking for which one causes the problem. | 23:31 |
| rwp | Because I think you have too many repositories simultaneously active. Probably caused something to overflow past a fixed limit, truncating the resulting database. | 23:31 |
| plasma41 | Curiously, /var/lib/apt/lists/pkgmaster.devuan.org_merged_dists_ceres_main_source_Sources correctly lists the correct 0.4.10.2-1 version number on line 138985. | 23:34 |
| rwp | I think it is a small bug. Here is what I think is happening. But I did not look at the source. So... Take this with caution. | 23:35 |
| rwp | Without actually listing ceres as a deb line apt-get does not know what /ceres means as a version. But does not complain that it does not know this. | 23:36 |
| rwp | And with chimaera as a deb version it falls back to using the version from chimaera as the version when /ceres is specified. But does not complain that it does this. | 23:36 |
| rwp | And with the chimaera version firmly in grip it cannot find it in the deb-src ceres repository. It complains about that. | 23:37 |
| rwp | Meanwhile... Since we know the version in ceres by other methods... If we specify the version in ceres rather than /ceres then it works. | 23:38 |
| rwp | Try this: apt-get source --print-uris freeorion=0.4.10.2-1 | 23:38 |
| rwp | I didn't want to run out of disk space again, so I just said print the uri that it would use without actually downloading anything. Faster too. | 23:38 |
| plasma41 | rwp: That seems like a likely explanation. I assume you are correct. Now to figure out how to fix apt so it parses properly codenames only appearing in deb-src lines. | 23:40 |
| rwp | At the least I think if it encounters /ceres but has not seen it otherwise and can't determine a version from it then it should complain at that point. | 23:41 |
| rwp | That previously /var/lib/apt/lists/... exists I think wouldn't matter if not otherwise listed in source.list. | 23:42 |
| rwp | plasma41, Your comment about /ceres in source lines is probably around the area of the code with the issue. Likely matching /ceres from deb lines for use in deb-src lines, inappropriately. | 23:43 |
| plasma41 | Yes, specifically the 'source' subcommand of apt(-get) should be able to parse sourcepackage/codename properly for codenames only referenced in deb-src lines. | 23:46 |
| rwp | If it were me I would remove the active older repositories such as ascii and the rest that are prior to your current chimaera. Smaller in memory database for apt to sort through. | 23:49 |
| rwp | Also one should be cautious about *-proposed-updates as any developer may upload random things there as a proposal but that are not actually released. So I suggest avoiding those unless you know you want something in particular from there. | 23:50 |
| plasma41 | I'm no stranger to the intricacies of Debian-style repositories and on this computer I never run 'apt upgrade'. I practically live in aptitude. | 23:53 |
| rwp | My production systems are stable and upgrade daily. I upgrade my ceres desktop every day. | 23:54 |
| rwp | I never picked up aptitude. It just works different than my brain works. | 23:55 |
| plasma41 | Which is to say I upgrade this system a few packages at a time with a lot of compiling locally customized packages. | 23:55 |
| brocashelm | same here, rwp | 23:56 |
| brocashelm | i updoot all the time and have no problems | 23:57 |
| brocashelm | all my systems run ceres | 23:58 |
| rwp | I do "sneak up" on things. I "apt-get upgrade" first, then "apt-get upgrade --with-new-pkgs", then "apt-get dist-upgrade", peeling layers off the in smaller safer bits at a time. | 23:58 |
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