libera/#devuan/ Sunday, 2021-11-14

BoradtHas anyone here tried to migrate Proxmox from Debian to Devuan?04:23
Boradtis anybody there?04:31
golinuxBoradt: Yes. But I can't answer your question.04:36
BoradtHello there!04:37
BoradtThat's fine, I thought my messages aren't going through for some reason.04:37
golinuxI just searched the forum, and MLs and almost no discussion of Proxmox04:41
golinuxI've been here since th fork and have no recollection of it at all.04:42
BoradtWell, that's a shame.04:42
BoradtProxmox seems like a good software, systemd aside that is.04:42
Hydragyrumshould have a good idea of how well it works installed on top of devuan ceres soon™04:43
golinuxYou can poke around to see if there is something useful in those resources.04:43
golinuxIt is not on the banned packages list https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt04:44
Hydragyrumgolinux, it's a completely 3rd-party deal, not in the normal repos04:44
BoradtHydragyrum! Hello! You're here too :)04:44
HydragyrumBoradt, of course I am ;)04:45
golinuxWell, it's probably a no-starter if it depends on systemd04:45
BoradtSome stuff will probably work, depending on how much depends on systemd04:46
BoradtIf it's a lot, then there would be a lot of manual labor involved, to change it to sysv or some other init04:47
golinuxStick around.  Someone may have tried.04:47
golinuxOr as I suggested search our resources04:48
golinuxBoradt: http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/_devuan/search?q=proxmox04:49
Boradtgolinux so it's possible04:51
Hydragyrumok so pve-kernel-helper depends systemd04:52
HydragyrumI was just getting to the step in installation on existing debian on a ceres box04:54
BoradtDrat :(04:54
* golinux bows out04:54
Hydragyrumso it may be doable, but would take some degree of work04:55
Hydragyrumit *probably* doesn't require any features of systemd that aren't present in normal init systems04:55
BoradtHydragyrum So it's a show stopper?05:01
Hydragyrumwell05:01
HydragyrumI saw something on the logs about using an old version of proxmox from before debian started using systemd05:02
Hydragyrumand it may be easy to create a mirror of the proxmox repo with some changes to remove systemd deps05:02
Hydragyrumbut unless you want to do some serious work, yeah it's a showstopper05:04
Boradtoh well, I guess I'll just install some non-systemd distro and install/run/manage services via terminal05:05
Hydragyrumxen could be nice for doing that, also look at libvirt05:06
Hydragyrumwith libvirt you can use virt-manager remotely, allowing you to have a gui to manage VMs and the like -- and supports qemu, xen, lxc, and bhyve, among others05:07
Hydragyrumhonestly for most home/hobbyist use, libvirt is about as good as proxmox for VM management05:09
Boradt#linux is full of scumbag idiots05:56
Boradtit angers me to see that channel is a first stop for a lot of people who are getting into gnu+linux05:57
Boradtif you mention a distro without systemd.. well.. you're in for a ride05:57
Boradtoh i hate on-call 12h weekends06:09
Boradtso so much06:09
jk_hello! I'd like some hints on how to debug a system freeze. I only know to check # dmesg --ctime but I don't get enough information. the last freeze was obviously before hardreboot and I only get messages since the recent system start10:46
used____jk_: /var/log/syslog /var/log/messages /var/log/debug /var/log/boot* etc11:32
used____and /var/log/dmesg*11:32
used____Note dmesg logs are rotated normally, there will be an archive of them11:33
used____The previous bootlog will be dmesg.0 normally11:33
used____[aside] why is `nosmt` in my grub.cfg default kernel cli?!11:35
used____Beowulf.11:35
jk_used____: Chimera11:36
jk_used____: thanks a lot for the hints!11:37
used____jk_: don't expect the fault to be logged there though, you'll get an idea of what was up just before it, at best11:37
jk_alright, that still is a step forward11:38
used____I hope. Good luck.11:38
jk_hehe11:39
used____jk_: are you a systemd refugee? ;-)11:47
jk_used____: hehe nope, I am running openrc X·D ______ is there a way to get dmseg.0 with day time?11:48
jk_systtemd seems confusing to me11:49
used____Not really, times are usec relative to boot moment. You should be able to get a "zero" for this from the boot record in syslog11:49
used____So if you look in syslog and consider the boot time there, it should correspond to a time (likely not 0.0) in dmesg.11:50
used____The offset is the kernel boot time (until early printk buffer is spilled into syslog after syslogd starts)11:50
jk_yes, dmesg.0 is sorted from 0.000000] Linux version 5.14.0-0.bpo.2-amd64  to    18.206162] NET: Registered PF_ALG protocol family11:52
jk_does this mean 18 seconds? o.O11:52
used____Yes.11:52
used____That's machine time, not real time. Real time may be longer.11:53
used____Depending on what timer is used by the kernel to count.11:53
jk_oh.. ok!12:03
jk_used____; well, in the files that you poited to i see a lot (!) of ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@12:04
jk_at the moment of the freeze :)12:04
jk_of the mentioned files in /var/log/ the one with the latest entry is:  and the entry is /var/log/syslog.112:11
jk_ Nov 14 03:30:01 tpt10 CRON[26897]: (root) CMD (test -e /run/systemd/system || SERVICE_MODE=1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/e2fsprogs/e2scrub_all_cron)12:11
jk_whooops! pasetd the name of the file in the wrong place haha12:12
used____Nice NULs there jk_, lots of them too.12:23
used____There should not be ^@s in those files, they are text, you probably have disk corruption and or a bad disk imo.12:24
used____e2scurb_all_cron sounds like a e2fs maintenance program I do not have installed here12:25
used____Find out what package provides it jk_12:25
used____https://lwn.net/Articles/749106/ sounds like you are running e2fsck on ext4 via cron, while mounted. What could possibly go wrong.12:27
used____""From:  "Darrick J. Wong" <darrick.wong-AT-oracle.com>""12:28
used____Nuff said.12:28
used____jk_: do you NEED that feature... It only works on LVM apparently, and sort of expects systemd provided process privacy, which is not necessarily a given on Devuan.12:29
jk_used____: damn! ad disk is my worst expectation 'cuz it is eMMC :\12:29
used____Ouch.12:29
used____Remove that package, run e2fsck on root part, reboot, see what you have left.12:30
used____ext4 is said not to be a good idea for flash. Journals eat blocks.12:30
jk_ok, ok... good hints!12:31
jk_I'll have a look into this e2scrub_all_cron... no i dea what it might be. this devuan is pretty fresh, only a couple of months old12:40
jk_and to me " running e2fsck on ext4 via cron, while mounted" sounds really out of place12:44
jk_"ext4 is said not to be a good idea for flash. Journals eat blocks." oh! also very important to consider12:52
hagbardIs there a way to get apt to download the long package description texts again? They used to be dsiplayed in synaptic.13:41
hagbard"apt update -o Acquire::Languages=en_US.UTF-8" did not help13:43
hagbardOr are those gone in the repos themselves?13:43
jk_used____: I think I've got it! thanxs again!18:00
AresyHello everyone18:50
AresyVery happy to join this big family18:51
ThominusHI @Aresy :)19:00
rwpHi Aresy!  Welcome to the group!  Please join #devuan-offtop as that is where the social chatter is happening.  :-)19:07
golinuxOr if you have a support question, just ask.19:08
AresyVery happy to meet all of you19:16
AresyWhere are you all?19:18
golinuxAresy: We are waiting to answer support questions.  This channel is not for chat.19:36
AresyOK19:39
gnarfaceAresy: #devuan-offtopic19:50
gnarfacepeople chat in there19:50
gnarfaceit's quiet right now though19:51
AresyI do not know either20:14
Hunter[m]<Aresy> "Very happy to join this big..." <- Me too!20:18

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