| oemb1905 | what is "console productivity?" | 02:16 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | A collection of useful cli tools | 02:19 |
| onefang | What package is that? I'm not seeing it in Beowulf. | 02:24 |
| oemb1905 | chimaera, on the standard ncurses installer, right above web server | 02:26 |
| onefang | Ah an installer option, not a package. I do debootstrap installs, so never saw that. | 02:27 |
| oemb1905 | gotcha | 02:28 |
| fsmithred | apt-cache depends task-console-productivity | 02:30 |
| fsmithred | to see the list of what it wants to pull in | 02:30 |
| oemb1905 | i will once it installs! ;> | 02:30 |
| onefang | Ah task-console-productivity is there. | 02:34 |
| ShorTie | 1 depend and 200 Recommends .. :/~ | 02:35 |
| onefang | Everything except the kitchen sync, though it has toilet. | 02:36 |
| onefang | Includes games. So much for productivity. lol | 02:37 |
| oemb1905 | i can always remove it lol, install finished now - was hoping it was maybe findutils, wirelesstools, net-tools, etc. | 02:39 |
| onefang | Back later, got graphics drivers to update. | 02:50 |
| oemb1905 | waited for this project to mature since it was first released, and just switched my librem 13 to it after repeated issues with sleep, motherboard, and other stuff with debian and ubuntu and pureOS ... so far flawless, i suspect a gnome systemd dependency was the culprit - this is my new daily driver for sysadmin work, thanks team ... enjoy your day/night | 05:21 |
| armouredheart | onefang: You can use pipewire-pulse as compatibility layer for programs that depend on pulseaudio | 06:19 |
| armouredheart | at least you can in gentoo... I haven't tried on Beowulf yet because I mostly use it for servers | 06:20 |
| av6 | i use pipewire-pulse, but in regular debian | 07:09 |
| av6 | pipewire also has a jack compatibility layer, and it all works well, i'm happy with how pipewire progresses | 07:11 |
| av6 | although there are still issues with jack compatibility that matter for some software, but they are patched regularly | 07:12 |
| FatPhil | Does anyone else have a somewhat idiotic /etc/X11/xdm/Xservers ? Mine starts with 43 blank lines, and I haven't got a clue why that should be. | 11:52 |
| FatPhil | some debian dev fell asleep on the keyboard? | 11:53 |
| FatPhil | g/f's machine has it too, so it wasn't me. | 12:03 |
| adhoc | FatPhil: perhaps original file has stuff stripped ouyt of it from a template? | 12:17 |
| FatPhil | https://www.apt-browse.org/browse/debian/jessie/main/amd64/xdm/1:1.1.11-1/file/etc/X11/xdm/Xservers is an older version, and doesn't have the issue, but https://www.apt-browse.org/browse/debian/stretch/main/amd64/xdm/1:1.1.11-3/?query=xdm is a dead link, so I can't see what the version i have is supposed to look like. | 13:51 |
| FatPhil | oooh, a second datapoint - since the beowulf upgrade, the laptop again didn't lock up overnight, so it's looking likely it was the ascii kernel that was the problem. | 14:05 |
| UsL | yea, smthng in the kernel was my conclusion as well. | 14:11 |
| UsL | good to see you have a working system now | 14:11 |
| FatPhil | and having the qemu running native with kvm is great. emulation was painful. | 15:51 |
| used____ | After a number of iterations, I have arrived at the conclusion that xfce4-power-manager in Beowulf ignores all existing power control mechanisms after interrogating them only using d-bus, and then uses the kernel suspend/etc capabilities itself. This means that any scripts set up in `sleep.d` etc. are ignored. xfce4 seems like another dead end, leading to systemd/etc clusterf*. Of course it ignores | 19:12 |
| used____ | pm-utils even if installed. Is there any real solution to a wm on Devuan which does NOT fall back to "free" non-free desktop utils which all seem to be like the proverbial "all roads lead to Rome", but with systemd/etc subsystems instead of Rome? | 19:12 |
| used____ | ref: https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-power-manager/faq | 19:12 |
| used____ | Is upower a possible solution to this? xfce4 knows about upower. | 19:14 |
| used____ | upower seems to be yet another road leading to ~Rome~. d-bus centric crap. | 19:15 |
| golinux | Let the games begin! | 19:23 |
| * used____ throws d-bus to the lions. | 19:23 | |
| used____ | upower is not a solution. | 19:23 |
| used____ | Looks like we need to rip out freedesktop.org related stuff and fall back to twm and pm-utils and such. | 19:24 |
| used____ | Small, careful steps like Devuan has taken until now, are not leading anywhere useful in a foreseeable future. | 19:24 |
| used____ | I've ended up using more time to make things which used to work in the 1990s work now, than installing the system, by a ratio of 20:1 or more. | 19:25 |
| used____ | Which wm's are available in Devuan which are not freedesktop.org related / are not using d-bus? | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | used____, I've had pm-utils installed without dbus. See https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2158 | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | not sure if it still works | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | and I have to go. bbl. | 19:27 |
| used____ | Having it installed, and having it called by xfce4-power-manager are 2 different things, as you know. | 19:27 |
| fsmithred | no, I called it manually or with a button that I made. | 19:28 |
| * Hydragyrum points at i3-wm | 19:28 | |
| fsmithred | later... | 19:28 |
| used____ | Let's start with my main gripe: acpid is present, kernel support is present, works, but NO event is issued to/by acpid on entry or exit from suspend, which makes it useless. | 19:28 |
| used____ | Thanks for the input fsmithred | 19:28 |
| used____ | <aside>Due to vivaldi updates clobbering the selected 'open with' app list I set up, I have stopped updates of vivaldi. | 19:29 |
| used____ | https://termbin.com/85o8 | 19:34 |
| furrymcgee | the whole idea of desktop environment is a mistake | 19:35 |
| furrymcgee | wmii is a suckless wm with a virtual fs for communication | 19:35 |
| * used____ is okay with twm | 19:37 | |
| used____ | back to the future. Also, makes me feel younger. | 19:37 |
| used____ | Is there a wm shootout somewhere online? Devuan centric or not? | 19:50 |
| onefang | A shootout might break a lot of windows. B-) | 19:51 |
| oemb1905 | so, where is the appropriate IRC to inquire about dependency issues, for example, rambox could not be installed nor discord ... i mean, i don't prefer these apps, but have to use them ... place in IRC to chat about? | 20:03 |
| Hydragyrum | the issue with the things you mention is that they're 3rd-party packages designed for vanilla debian | 20:05 |
| used____ | Which rambox did you try to install oemb1905 ? rpm? appimage? | 20:06 |
| used____ | And what Hydragyrum said | 20:06 |
| oemb1905 | lol, i am aware of the cause, but want to stick with devuan ... i see you guys are posting fixes for browsers, so worth a shot | 20:06 |
| oemb1905 | used, i tried the .deb amd64 | 20:06 |
| Hydragyrum | if you want to install a .deb that was packaged for debian on devuan, the most common way of fixing it results in a frankendebian | 20:06 |
| used____ | oemb1905: https://snapcraft.io/install/rambox/debian snapd? | 20:07 |
| oemb1905 | yeah, we all need compatibility and have to sacrifice that against preference ... looking for solutions here not philosophy | 20:07 |
| Hydragyrum | snapd is almost as ew as systemd | 20:07 |
| used____ | Indeed. | 20:07 |
| oemb1905 | wait, snapd is supported on devuan? | 20:08 |
| oemb1905 | is there some third party repo for this? it did not show up on my end | 20:08 |
| used____ | oemb1905: not really | 20:08 |
| Hydragyrum | personally, I'd suggest the appimage, otherwise you're likely to need to install unusual versions that aren't in devuan repos, which may need to come from debian repos | 20:08 |
| oemb1905 | let me try the app image ... rambox saves a crap ton of time for communications, less concerned about discord which i can use browser for | 20:09 |
| oemb1905 | brb | 20:09 |
| Hydragyrum | bringing in lots of out-of-repo deps like that, especially if you actually add the repos to your apt sources, results in the frankendebian problem | 20:09 |
| oemb1905 | i understand ofc, and try to limit that ... but rambox is a huge time saver for sessions, especially for Nextcloud talk, which I manage nearly 10 | 20:10 |
| oemb1905 | and it was only one library it barfed at, so it seemed minimal | 20:11 |
| oemb1905 | it works fine with dpkg, as long as you ignore the dependency error, but it breaks apt | 20:11 |
| oemb1905 | checking appimage now, ty | 20:11 |
| used____ | ignore the dependency error == come here and ask about why it does not work ;) | 20:12 |
| gnarface | oemb1905: snapd requires systemd, they're both banned: http://packages.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 20:13 |
| oemb1905 | i did not suggest snapd, someone above did ... i questioned them about it rather | 20:13 |
| used____ | Oh I missed that. Some snapd related libs are not banned though. | 20:13 |
| used____ | I suggested snapd but did not realize it is banned. | 20:14 |
| gnarface | doesn't mean anyone will stop you from using it, but it does mean that our experts have painstakingly determined it to be way more trouble than it is worth | 20:14 |
| Hydragyrum | there is a 3rd-party replacement that also doesn't lock to only canonical's repos | 20:15 |
| Hydragyrum | idk if that needs systemd as well but I wouldn't be surprised | 20:15 |
| used____ | Which one is that? | 20:15 |
| gnarface | good question - some stuff can just be rebuilt without it, some stuff would require heavy patching or rolling back to an older pre-systemd version | 20:15 |
| onefang | So rambox is kinda like pidgin? Messaging client that supports multiple protocols, with a plugin system? | 20:16 |
| used____ | Yes, go read the wikipedia article imo. | 20:16 |
| oemb1905 | I keep things as minimal as possible, only issues are rambox and discord, which are workflow reqs, rest is floss only, and on a librem ... def init fan here, just need to get a reasonable feature set working too, since this is my production laptop | 20:16 |
| used____ | It is also proprietary/payware for full features onefang | 20:16 |
| oemb1905 | onefang: yes | 20:16 |
| oemb1905 | i use the free version, i have not had luck with pidgin | 20:17 |
| oemb1905 | gratis | 20:17 |
| gnarface | a chroot or some type of container might be in order | 20:17 |
| onefang | Ah not interested if it's not open source. | 20:17 |
| oemb1905z | yeah, if you have a viable replacement for multiple Nextcloud sessions lmk | 20:18 |
| oemb1905z | it's the only non floss on this laptop, but/and it is huge time savings ... okay, app image works ... replacement ideas welcome | 20:18 |
| Hydragyrum | https://repo.lolsnap.org/lol-snap/lol-server < here's the 3d-party one | 20:19 |
| oemb1905z | yeah, i don't do snaps or flats | 20:20 |
| oemb1905z | but maybe the other cat is interested | 20:20 |
| Hydragyrum | yeah I don't either, just caught a bit about it from dt | 20:21 |
| used____ | dt? | 20:22 |
| used____ | I asked, I got more than I bargained for https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Window_manager | 20:22 |
| Hunter[m] | used____: DistroTube | 20:22 |
| Hunter[m] | Hes a youtuber | 20:22 |
| Hydragyrum | ^ | 20:23 |
| oemb1905z | thanks dudes, i can now work ... will fart around with pidgin again later this week ... would be great if i could switch ;O ... later, app image of rb will suffice for now | 20:24 |
| onefang | I found the Discord plugin for Pidgin sucked. | 20:41 |
| onefang | So I Discord in a web browser, XMPP in Psi+, and IRC in Psi+ using a bridge. | 20:42 |
| onefang | Gave up on Signal coz my phones camera went all out of focus on me, and the only way to get desktop Signal to work is to use your phone to photograph the QR code on the computer screen. sigh | 20:43 |
| used____ | Same as WhatsApp then ;) | 20:59 |
| ed3 | Good morning. Would this be an appropriate channel to ask about QT kit problems? | 21:03 |
| used____ | On Devuan? ;-) | 21:05 |
| ed3 | Hah. Yes of course | 21:05 |
| used____ | Well... ask. | 21:05 |
| * used____ knows nothing about qt but others might. | 21:05 | |
| ed3 | I'm having issues with Yubico, but in order to get what I need done I need to build using QT Creator | 21:05 |
| ed3 | Never used QT. Trying to configure the kit for Devuan, but tells me I have a problem with my qmake, and the qt5-default doesn't exist in the Devuan repository | 21:06 |
| ed3 | Curious if anybody around here is using QT to develop on Devuan and can give me some pointers on setting up the environment | 21:07 |
| ed3 | What it specifically says is "Qt version is not properly installed, please run make install". This is after I installed qt5-qmake with the repository | 21:09 |
| used____ | Anyone on Fvwm here? Happy? I used it 10 years ago. | 21:10 |
| used____ | Make that 20ish | 21:10 |
| used____ | Window manager shootout I like https://www.junauza.com/2008/08/20-most-nimble-and-simple-x-window.html | 21:13 |
| used____ | Comments, in a Devuan context use of any of the above, welcome. | 21:13 |
| oemb1905 | ed3: have you tried to install http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/q/qtbase-opensource-src/qt5-default_5.11.3+dfsg1-1+deb10u4_amd64.deb ? | 21:37 |
| oemb1905 | warning, i am a debian guy, and new to devuan ... but i would start there lol | 21:37 |
| ed3 | Package dependency problems | 21:38 |
| ed3 | all comes down to qt5-default missing in the devuan repo | 21:39 |
| oemb1905 | ed3: sure, but we also have needs, have you tried uninstalling the repo version and installing all the primaries / dependencies manually? | 21:39 |
| ed3 | I don't follow about uninstalling the repo version. I'm trying to find the dependencies manually, but no luck yet | 21:41 |
| ed3 | I love the fact that everytime I search for devuan x in Google it gives me results for debian x instead :) | 21:42 |
| onefang | Devuan is mostly Debian, with only a small set of changes. | 21:42 |
| oemb1905 | ed3: are you on chimaera? | 21:43 |
| ed3 | Yes | 21:44 |
| ed3 | That is the latest correct? | 21:44 |
| golinux | Yes | 21:49 |
| golinux | ed3: Search with devuan -debian | 21:50 |
| used____ | Why is my `ls ~/.config/pulse/` full of dozens of useless files? | 21:54 |
| used____ | pulseaudio is not installed | 21:55 |
| oemb1905 | ed3: what does qmake -query show? | 21:58 |
| ed3 | Messaged you so I don't flood the main channel | 22:01 |
| Hydragyrum | have you considered pastebins? | 22:08 |
| oemb1905 | QT_INSTALL_HEADERS is missing | 22:13 |
| oemb1905 | they are going to compile from source | 22:13 |
| oemb1905 | well, lunch is over and devuan machine is purring ... i'll be back folks ... y'all have fun ;> | 22:14 |
| Guest7843 | hi, all. using windows, i downloaded devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop-live . how do i check that it's valid? | 23:24 |
| Guest7843 | i'm a noob, btw | 23:24 |
| gnarface | Guest7843: on later versions of windows i believe there's some command-line way to check sha* sums i just don't know it off the top of my head | 23:25 |
| gnarface | Guest7843: ask google | 23:25 |
| gnarface | it was the type of thing that was a stock feature but looked purposefully obscured | 23:26 |
| gnarface | windows developers have to solve all these same problems we do, they just don't like to tell anyone how they did it for free | 23:27 |
| Guest7843 | with windows terminal, i ran: certutil -hashfile devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso MD5 | 23:27 |
| gnarface | oh, cool. it work? | 23:28 |
| Guest7843 | i got some characters | 23:28 |
| Guest7843 | the thing is, i don't know what to compare it to | 23:28 |
| gnarface | oh, i assumed they'd be posted where you downloaded it | 23:28 |
| gnarface | they're not md5 either, only sha | 23:29 |
| gnarface | sha256 i think maybe | 23:29 |
| gnarface | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ | 23:29 |
| gnarface | SHASUMS.txt | 23:29 |
| Guest7843 | whats the diff b/w md5 and sha? | 23:29 |
| Guest7843 | should i have written sha instead of md5? | 23:29 |
| gnarface | try sha256 | 23:29 |
| gnarface | SHA256 or SHA52 | 23:30 |
| gnarface | i mean SHA512 | 23:30 |
| gnarface | i think it was 256 but i dont' now what windows would call it | 23:30 |
| gnarface | MD5 is just less secure that's all | 23:30 |
| gnarface | it was meant to be faster but computers are so fast now the difference barely matters anymore | 23:30 |
| gnarface | *don't know | 23:31 |
| Guest7843 | okay, i ran: certutil -hashfile devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_amd64_desktop-live.iso SHA512 | 23:31 |
| Guest7843 | and got a totally different bunch of characters! lol | 23:31 |
| gnarface | you make sure they match the ones in that SHASUMS.txt, and then for extra pedantry you can in turn verify the SHASUMS.txt file itself with gpg and that SHASUMS.txt.asc file | 23:32 |
| gnarface | but i REALLY don't know how to do that on windows | 23:32 |
| Guest7843 | so i do the same command? like this: certutil -hashfile SHASUMS.txt SHA512 | 23:33 |
| gnarface | no, you'd need to find another way to do it i assume | 23:41 |
| gnarface | gpg is something different | 23:41 |
| gnarface | there's a tool on linux and bsd to automate it called "signify" but that's all i know | 23:41 |
| gnarface | Guest7843: maybe look for pgp too since gpg is just the open-source pgp implementation | 23:50 |
| Guest7843 | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/install-devuan | 23:57 |
| Guest7843 | i just don't understand this page | 23:57 |
| gnarface | ah | 23:58 |
| gnarface | well two things | 23:58 |
| gnarface | first of all it assumes you're already doing it from another linux computer, and i realize that's unfair (i didn't do this) | 23:58 |
| gnarface | and second of all, it's instructing you to use the other installers from the installer-iso directory, not the directory you got the live image from | 23:59 |
| gnarface | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/installer-iso/ | 23:59 |
| gnarface | here | 23:59 |
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