| adhoc | morning all | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| cleetus | Can I use # apt-get upgrade to get the latest security updates on Devuan? | 10:21 |
| cleetus | Or will that break things? | 10:21 |
| brocashelm | cleetus: the repository of chimaera-security should take care of that for you when you update your packages | 10:23 |
| brocashelm | do you have chimaera-security in your /etc/apt/sources.list file? | 10:23 |
| cleetus | I am a complete newbie to Debian - I come from OpenBSD | 10:24 |
| brocashelm | have a look at the default/recommended entries should be for your apt sources (chimaera, on the very top): https://www.devuan.org/os/packages | 10:24 |
| cleetus | let me check | 10:24 |
| brocashelm | chimaera-updates and chimaera-security should automatically be on your sources.list if you just installed devuan, or else double check with: cat /etc/apt/sources.list | 10:25 |
| brocashelm | those are essential to ensuring your os remains stable/secure | 10:25 |
| cleetus | Ok I got that bookmarked | 10:26 |
| brocashelm | oh, looks like -updates isn't default, but i'd personally add that in | 10:26 |
| brocashelm | proposed-updates and backports could also be added to your stable release, but i would hold off on those for now unless you need specific versions of software (which you could set apt pinning rules in /etc/apt/preferences.d dir) | 10:27 |
| brocashelm | but yeah, at least have chimaera and chimaera-security in your sources and then apt update + apt upgrade away | 10:28 |
| cleetus | cat /etc/apt/sources.list is listing all devuan.org sites | 10:28 |
| brocashelm | any dependency error should be corrected, as long as you are only using official repositories for the same release | 10:28 |
| brocashelm | yes, look for the bits right after "/merged" for the appropriate codenames | 10:29 |
| brocashelm | the page shows you how to set your repositories (one entry per line) | 10:30 |
| brocashelm | and then you apt update to make the changes to your repository | 10:30 |
| cleetus | Ok run # apt-get update to get the latest repositories? | 10:31 |
| brocashelm | yes, to sync your repositories and get the latest updates to your existing packages | 10:31 |
| cleetus | Great | 10:32 |
| cleetus | thanks | 10:32 |
| brocashelm | no problem | 10:32 |
| cleetus | Devuan is running great | 10:32 |
| brocashelm | it's very stable, and i'm using ceres (unstable) with runit init | 10:33 |
| cleetus | all my repositories say | 10:34 |
| cleetus | deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera-updates | 10:34 |
| brocashelm | i think devuan's turning point was beowulf. it's even better now because the kernel for chimaera is close to upstream (5.10 vs. 5.15) | 10:34 |
| cleetus | I am using Chimaera | 10:34 |
| brocashelm | is chimaera-updates your only entry in your sources.list? | 10:34 |
| cleetus | No I just pasted one entry | 10:34 |
| cleetus | there are many entries in /etc/apt/sources.list | 10:35 |
| brocashelm | they should each look like this: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged CODENAME main | 10:36 |
| cleetus | like so chimaera-security main? | 10:37 |
| cleetus | there are several of those | 10:38 |
| cleetus | chimaera main non-free contrib | 10:38 |
| cleetus | I just installed it a day ago | 10:38 |
| cleetus | I was using Kde-Neon on Ubuntu but the systemd would not allow me to shutdown properly | 10:39 |
| brocashelm | could you paste your sources.list entries on dpaste.org? | 10:40 |
| brocashelm | maybe there's a typo | 10:40 |
| brocashelm | if it's only picking up one repository, contrary to there being multiple entries | 10:41 |
| brocashelm | apt should also notify you of any errors when running apt update | 10:41 |
| cleetus | hold on | 10:42 |
| cleetus | the cat needed attending to | 10:42 |
| cleetus | https://dpaste.com/E4Y6Q9H48 | 10:45 |
| cleetus | There is the complete output of | 10:46 |
| cleetus | /etc/apt/sources.list | 10:46 |
| brocashelm | looks fine to me. i noticed chimaera-security is using pkgmaster.devuan.org, and you said that's the only one apt picked up? | 10:54 |
| brocashelm | nvm, you said chimaera-updates | 10:55 |
| brocashelm | ah, i think i know why | 10:56 |
| brocashelm | it should be like this: main contrib non-free | 10:57 |
| brocashelm | your chimaera-updates ordering is correct (main contrib non-free) | 10:57 |
| brocashelm | the others are main non-free contrib (incorrect) | 10:58 |
| brocashelm | so change the others to main contrib non-free (in that order) | 10:58 |
| brocashelm | maybe that should work? | 10:59 |
| cleetus | OK | 11:13 |
| cleetus | I have to go | 11:25 |
| cleetus | Thank you so much for your help | 11:25 |
| brocashelm | no problem | 11:27 |
| brocashelm | enjoy devuan | 11:27 |
| aplainzetakind | How do I upgrade from Beowulf to Chimaera? | 12:10 |
| djph | aplainzetakind: I just changed sources.list and did a dist-upgrade | 12:12 |
| brocashelm | aplainzetakind: you have to change your /etc/apt/sources.list file; anywhere it says beowulf, change it to chimaera (examples: chimaera, chimaera-update, chimaera-security), and then run apt update and apt dist-upgrade | 12:12 |
| brocashelm | check for any dependency issues; if all is clear, it's safe to upgrade | 12:12 |
| aplainzetakind | Thanks djph brocashelm | 12:13 |
| brocashelm | safer to run apt dist-upgrade if you drop to tty, btw | 12:13 |
| djph | simple fix -> (1) cp sources.list sources.list.beowulf (2) sed -e 's/beowulf/chimaera/g' < sources.list.beowulf > sources.list | 12:13 |
| djph | assuming I can type properly on one cuppa coffee, that is :) | 12:14 |
| brocashelm | lol | 12:14 |
| aplainzetakind | brocashelm: Would Alt-Fx switching suffice or should I exit X? | 12:15 |
| brocashelm | ctrl+alt+backspace is the most common keybind to exit x | 12:16 |
| brocashelm | since there will be major changes between the versions | 12:16 |
| djph | I usually switch to runlevel3 | 12:16 |
| djph | er, I think it's runlevel3 | 12:16 |
| djph | I gave up on graphical installs during Jessie -> ascii though (i.e. my WM doesn't start until I tell it to) | 12:17 |
| aplainzetakind | djph: I just use startx | 12:17 |
| djph | aplainzetakind: yeah, thats what I meant... I start at a tty, and then startx on one of them | 12:18 |
| brocashelm | i also user startx. it's simpler that way | 12:18 |
| brocashelm | *use | 12:18 |
| aplainzetakind | Anyhow, I just did an upgrade and a kernel update wants me to reboot anyway. I'll reboot then dist-upgrade then reboot again. | 12:18 |
| brocashelm | you can reboot after | 12:19 |
| djph | I so very much can't wait to find the new local hipster coffee shop and drop in with my laptop ... | 12:19 |
| brocashelm | it's just there to remind you of a newer kernel you installed | 12:19 |
| aplainzetakind | Alright. | 12:19 |
| aplainzetakind | Cheers! | 12:19 |
| brocashelm | =) | 12:20 |
| djph | good luck :D | 12:20 |
| brocashelm | it's nice i only had to do dist-upgrade once (went from beowulf to chimaera/ceres) | 12:21 |
| djph | There are some times where I wish I could grab ceres and actually be helpful; but ... | 12:23 |
| brocashelm | ceres is more stable than nearly all other "stable" distros i've used | 12:25 |
| djph | more that I meant I would just use it like any other "stable" release, and not be helpful | 12:36 |
| brocashelm | ah | 12:37 |
| brocashelm | i use it more as a "stable" release, but i'll happily test something out real quick if it's not too risky | 12:38 |
| djph | hehe | 12:40 |
| aplainzetakind | All good. | 12:50 |
| aplainzetakind | On to my next question: How do I upgrade a particular package to testing? | 12:51 |
| aplainzetakind | Particularly, I just want to get neovim 0.5.x without having to compile and manage it myself. | 12:53 |
| brocashelm | that is possible through apt pinning if you enable daedalus as well | 12:57 |
| brocashelm | although it's possible packages like libc6 might not be compatible to install that version | 12:58 |
| brocashelm | to install neovim 0.5.1-1, libc6 must be 2.32 or higher | 12:59 |
| brocashelm | so, you're likely to run into dependency issues | 12:59 |
| brocashelm | maybe try enabling chimaera-backports and chimaera-proposed-updates? | 13:00 |
| aplainzetakind | That consist only of adding lines with chimaera replaced by those right? | 13:01 |
| brocashelm | yes, just additional lines | 13:01 |
| brocashelm | i did check to see if those contain neovim or libc6, but none | 13:02 |
| brocashelm | unfortunately, your only realistic choices would be to compile from source or upgrade to daedalus (testing; not recommended at the moment) | 13:03 |
| brocashelm | an easy way to do this is: apt-get build-dep neovim (so you can get the necessary dev files to compile neovim 0.5.x) | 13:04 |
| brocashelm | make sure you have deb-src enabled for chimaera, as well | 13:05 |
| aplainzetakind | When I add extra sources, what controls which is the default? | 13:07 |
| aplainzetakind | Or should I add/apt-get/revert? | 13:07 |
| brocashelm | should just be: deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ chimaera main | 13:08 |
| brocashelm | add that line | 13:09 |
| brocashelm | to your /etc/apt/sources.list | 13:09 |
| rrq | aplainzetakind: check out https://wiki.debian.org/AptConfiguration | 13:09 |
| aplainzetakind | Doesn't every apt-get install etc. fetch from chimaera after that point? | 13:09 |
| aplainzetakind | rrq: Thanks. | 13:12 |
| djph | ... huh, what am I doing wrong here ... ? | 15:20 |
| djph | sshd ChallengeResponseAuthentication yes / UsePAM yes .. | 15:22 |
| djph | ssh key lets me right in. Isn't it supposed to follow up with a keyboard-interactive challenge ? | 15:22 |
| unixman | If you did not embed a passphrase in your ssh key, then no. It will let you right in. | 15:43 |
| unixman | djph, ^^^ | 15:43 |
| unixman | IIRC if you are expecting to set up multifaceted Challenge / Response then you cannot use ssh key-based login. TBH, I've never set it up myself and this is from memory when researching it for our bastion server a couple of years ago. We decided to go with ssh keys that include passphrases. | 15:52 |
| * GyrosGeier got an OpenPGP smartcard | 16:05 | |
| GyrosGeier | that can also do ssh logins | 16:05 |
| GyrosGeier | short pin, three attempts before the card bricks itself | 16:06 |
| djph | unixman: yeah, my key has a passphrase ... I thought challengeresponseauthentication was supposed to add "extra" challenges, even if key-auth was enabled | 16:30 |
| djph | e.g. google-authenticator or other 2FA challenges in addition to the key | 16:30 |
| djph | oh well, something to poke at on vacation | 16:44 |
| diehard_kiwi | Hey party peoples. Just installed Chimaera from the server iso listed on mirror.belltower.us. Anyways, on a fresh install, with runit or sysv, the machine hangs at boot: "waiting for /dev to fully populate". If I boot with advanced options for verbose system messages, it looks like what is actually happening is the system is getting hung on | 21:39 |
| diehard_kiwi | "switching to nouveaufb from efi vga". Thoughts on fix? | 21:39 |
| diehard_kiwi | Boots fine with AMD card. What package can I install so that I can boot from my Nvidia card? | 21:59 |
| furrymcgee | nvidia-driver? | 22:03 |
| * _ds_ would leave the AMD GPU installed and… dispose… of the other one | 22:05 | |
| diehard_kiwi | Well I would hate to install some proprietary software. So I would be more focused on a fix for the nouveau driver. | 22:05 |
| diehard_kiwi | Sorry having some problems with this web client. | 22:07 |
| diehard_kiwi | Anyways I agree that this team green abomination is best left to the recycler but I had this lying around and the HD8490 that I have doesn't work without proprietary drivers so | 22:09 |
| _ds_ | May be worth using a newer kernel, if you aren't already: backports has 5.14.something (looks like 5.14.9). | 22:09 |
| _ds_ | HD8490 uses open-source drivers and non-free firmware. | 22:09 |
| diehard_kiwi | Interesting. Linux-parts told me otherwise and I don't have the display port cable to test it. | 22:10 |
| _ds_ | Stock kernel, Mesa and, from non-free, firmware-amd-graphics. | 22:11 |
| diehard_kiwi | I will check into my kernel but definitely will not be installing the non free package. Might not need to worry about it if the 8490 works as you said and I get the cable. Much appreciated :) | 22:11 |
| diehard_kiwi | I saw on anither forum someone chrooted into the devuan install from a debian install they had on another disk and installed amd-proprietary-garbage via chroot. But they were running an AMD card and again propreitary drivers. | 22:13 |
| _ds_ | That'd be amdgpu-pro, presumably… | 22:13 |
| diehard_kiwi | No they wrote in the forum it was amd-graphics that they installed. Unless I'm wrong and that isn't a non-free package? | 22:14 |
| diehard_kiwi | Anyways I keep reading how the open source drivers are beating the proprietary, which is really exciting fo hear. | 22:15 |
| _ds_ | If you're thinking that the firmware will taint your kernel – it won't. It's for the GPU, not to be run on the CPU. | 22:17 |
| _ds_ | I'd need to see the forum posting in question… | 22:18 |
| diehard_kiwi | Well it's just that the blob is there. Like the BIOS on this new board for example has in-built tools for NVME sanitization and SSD secure erase. Imagine where my imagination goes with that. | 22:18 |
| diehard_kiwi | Here he talks about how he installed firmware-amd-graphics via chroot | 22:23 |
| diehard_kiwi | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3185 | 22:23 |
| _ds_ | It should work without (as is stated there), but if it does you'll not get hardware-accelerated rendering without the firmware. | 22:25 |
| _ds_ | The approach is good (boot from the installation media, chroot into the installed OS, install the package, reboot). | 22:29 |
| diehard_kiwi | So if the nouveau package stays broken I'm SOL? :p | 22:30 |
| diehard_kiwi | Yeah honestly that is one smart cookie behind the keyboard. | 22:30 |
| _ds_ | In nouveau's case… I don't know but I mentioned using a newer kernel because nouveaufb is a kernel module. | 22:31 |
| rwp | diehard_kiwi, I had similar problems with my nvidia card using the nouveau driver in Debian Unstable earlier this year. | 22:32 |
| rwp | diehard_kiwi, In my case I gave up and replaced it with an AMD Radeon card using the in kernel AMD drivers and have had zero trouble since. | 22:32 |
| rwp | But the problem was definitely the newer nouveau and/or kernel combination. Because booting the older kernel worked perfectly. | 22:33 |
| rwp | AMD made the choice to commit to free software drivers in kernel main and here it is years later and that choice is rewarding them. | 22:34 |
| * _ds_ has long avoided nvidia hardware because of the proprietary in-kernel drivers | 22:35 | |
| diehard_kiwi | That is true. Thank you all for the feedback. | 22:35 |
| diehard_kiwi | There is certainly a reason I have been recommending only AMD for the last few years lol | 22:36 |
| rwp | I had been using that nvidia card I had in my machine for years. It works great. But then earlier this year newer nouveau broke down. | 22:38 |
| _ds_ | Bug reported in the appropriate place? | 22:38 |
| rwp | At least for me. I could boot older kernels and all would be perfect. But any newer kernel then caused a variety of graphics hangs of different types for me. | 22:38 |
| rwp | _ds_, Nope. I have done that before and never gotten any results. I decided to let someone else carry the flag this time. | 22:39 |
| rwp | Usually what happens is that the bug stays open until the next major kernel revision is released. And then closed because it is against the older major version of the kernel. | 22:39 |
| rwp | This is me being pessimistically pragmatic but unless one wants to get into the nouveau driver source code and figure it out themselves then no one else is going to do it for you. | 22:40 |
| _ds_ | Ouch… | 22:40 |
| _ds_ | Should be asking for re-tests, not just closing. | 22:41 |
| rwp | I would presume that the driver works for other people. Or there would be more reports and the squeaky noise would cause some oil to be applied. | 22:42 |
| rwp | In this case I am mostly just commiserating with diehard_kiwi as we both seem to have the same problem. | 22:43 |
| diehard_kiwi | Indeed. As this chat is publicly archived, let this be a decree against the iniquity of team green. | 22:44 |
| diehard_kiwi | Hear ye, hear ye! Away with proprietary garbage! Vote with your dollar! Obey the four rules! | 22:45 |
| gnu_srs | Seems like Devuan is second in ranking, nice :) : https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ranking | 22:56 |
| diehard_kiwi | vrms is the only AV I need!! | 23:01 |
| golinux | gnu_srs: It has been for quite some time. Not only that, the reviews are mostly intelligent and articulate. | 23:04 |
| ham5urg | I installed via netintall. I have a fresh system and want to install gnome but don't want to boot into it. Rather to start it via startx. Which packages do I have to install? | 23:28 |
| ham5urg | I could install task-gnome-desktop but would that be the best approach? | 23:35 |
| rwp | ham5urg, task-gnome-desktop does not depend upon slim or lightdm so installing task-gnome-desktop should not AFAICS install a graphical login manager. | 23:38 |
| rwp | Which is to say that you should be able to install task-gnome-desktop and still log into the Linux vt text console and then startx as before. I think. | 23:39 |
| ham5urg | I see | 23:39 |
| ham5urg | Thank you for the info | 23:39 |
| rwp | In Beowulf the default graphical login manager was lightdm but in Chimaera it has been switched to slim. | 23:40 |
| rwp | So if you attempt to install task-gnome-desktop please look to see if either of those are getting pulled in. Hopefully not. | 23:40 |
| rwp | And also look for gdm3 and anything that looks like *dm (xdm, X Display Manager) too. | 23:40 |
| onefang | You can always disable whatever display manager gets installed if one comes along for the ride. | 23:51 |
| ham5urg | I tried to start hexchat with Daedalus. But it won't start up. I get "Failed to load module canberra-gtk-module" | 23:52 |
| ham5urg | But it is already installed | 23:53 |
| rwp | Have seen that error before. The wisdom of the net says to install libcanberra-gtk-module libcanberra-gtk3-module | 23:55 |
| ham5urg | Neither Gimp nor Firefox starts. I will try. | 23:59 |
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