| nero_ | hey yo | 00:37 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | yo | 00:37 |
| nero_ | lol | 00:37 |
| nero_ | so... do you know where to find some rad Devuan backgrounds? | 00:37 |
| gnarface | i don't actually sorry, i always liked digitalblasphemy though | 00:38 |
| nero_ | I mean, I just installed it and I was welcomed with just a dark background | 00:39 |
| gnarface | i only know of onedevuan back ground | 00:39 |
| gnarface | one devuan background | 00:39 |
| gnarface | yea, the red one | 00:39 |
| gnarface | well there's a blue one too i think now | 00:39 |
| gnarface | did you check the fourm? | 00:39 |
| gnarface | forum* | 00:39 |
| nero_ | I will | 00:40 |
| gnarface | i remember e16 used to be bundled with some neat ones but it's not in the repo anymore | 00:40 |
| nero_ | kinda weird they didn't name the forum dev1devuan or something | 00:42 |
| nero_ | there must be a story behind it | 00:42 |
| gnarface | did yoyu check out "apt-cache search backgrounds" ? | 00:43 |
| nero_ | there's only plasma's | 00:47 |
| nero_ | and something called UKUI | 00:47 |
| nero_ | somebody in the forum made this one https://pasteboard.co/IUFL4fx.png | 00:48 |
| nero_ | guess I'm gonna use that one | 00:48 |
| nero_ | see ya | 00:51 |
| guest127 | hello, can i install netinstall without wired connection? | 01:14 |
| guest127 | or should I use server ISO instead? | 01:15 |
| fsmithred | use server iso. | 01:16 |
| guest127 | I want to do minimal xorg install | 01:16 |
| guest127 | and add stuff as needed | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | then desktop iso | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | uncheck the desktop stuff at the tasksel window | 01:16 |
| fsmithred | check or uncheck standard system utilities as you prefer | 01:17 |
| fsmithred | then add what you want later | 01:17 |
| fsmithred | if you will have network after the initial install, then either server or desktop will do. | 01:17 |
| fsmithred | if you want xorg without network, check the contents of both isos to see which one has what you need. | 01:18 |
| guest127 | how do i check contents of isoZ | 01:18 |
| guest127 | ? | 01:18 |
| guest127 | ISO | 01:19 |
| fsmithred | oh, good question | 01:19 |
| fsmithred | let me see if I can find it | 01:19 |
| adhoc | an iso file? | 01:20 |
| adhoc | you could mount it via loopback | 01:20 |
| gnarface | wait, the netinstall will "work" without a network connection to make a bootable install, won't it? it used to | 01:21 |
| gnarface | if you'll have a network connection later, then a netinstall will still work afaik for that purpose, you just won't have much of use on there until you do get a network connection to download more | 01:22 |
| gnarface | otherwise yea, get the big cd or dvd set... | 01:23 |
| gnarface | and maybe ALSO the server and desktop iso | 01:23 |
| gnarface | and a live image too for good measure | 01:23 |
| gnarface | if you're not gonna have a connection i'd download it all... | 01:23 |
| gnarface | maybe that's overboard and just a copy of the server iso will do | 01:24 |
| fsmithred | yeah, you'll have a bare system with a no-network netinstall | 01:24 |
| gnarface | yea but it'll still boot | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | yes | 01:25 |
| guest127 | will wireless work? | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | the iso contains enough to connect to repo and get packages | 01:25 |
| guest127 | i could not get ceni t work with mine | 01:25 |
| fsmithred | yes, all the installer isos have firmware | 01:25 |
| guest127 | with antix core | 01:26 |
| fsmithred | if it's certain broadcom hardware, you must have a network connection to get what you need to have a network connection. (e.g. wire first.) | 01:26 |
| gnarface | i think in those cases it might still work with a static unencrypted setup, it's just a really bad idea for security | 01:27 |
| fsmithred | ok, I just checked for a list, and the person who makes the installer isos said mount the iso and use 'find' | 01:27 |
| fsmithred | certain broadcoms require a download to get the actual firmware. The deb package is just an installer. | 01:28 |
| gnarface | oh that's annoying | 01:28 |
| guest127 | how big of a difference between netinstall and server? | 01:28 |
| fsmithred | they're the ones I don't include in the live isos because of the restrictive licensew | 01:28 |
| fsmithred | license | 01:28 |
| gnarface | guest127: there's no effective difference after you've installed all the same packages | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | not a lot, guest. Everything is more bloated with every release. | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | oh, I was thinking of the iso size. | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | which is easy to read | 01:29 |
| fsmithred | sorry | 01:29 |
| guest127 | contents wise | 01:29 |
| guest127 | is netinstall for super experts? | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | the desktop iso has desktop environments on the disk | 01:30 |
| gnarface | well what's already on the netinstall is just the bare minimum to boot and download more | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | the server has server software, xorg and some desktop or window manager, I think | 01:30 |
| gnarface | the other stuff is intended for possible offline use and is an attempt to contain everything you'd need | 01:30 |
| fsmithred | time for dinner. back in a little while. | 01:31 |
| guest127 | I guess I'll just get server | 01:31 |
| guest127 | thanks for your time | 01:31 |
| gnarface | good luck | 01:32 |
| rrq | -true-thing | 02:55 |
| systemdlete | what could trigger an unsolicited mount request? I was restarting a couple of VMs and suddenly there was a popup for authorization to mount a file system. The file system it was asking for is not even one I use. It has a hyperbola linux install on it, but I haven't accessed it in over a year, maybe years. | 05:10 |
| systemdlete | It's on an md raid partition and it IS listed in my mdadm.conf file. But why would it all of a sudden request a password to mount it? | 05:10 |
| systemdlete | (the VMs are on other file systems, so it is not related to virtualization) | 05:11 |
| systemdlete | I wasn't even working at the command line, nor was I browsing files or directories. I was simply launching a couple of VMs from desktop icons | 05:13 |
| systemdlete | I launch these VMs regularly and never noticed this previously | 05:13 |
| blockhead | sounds very windows-like. unfortunaley, i have no ideas (save maybe to click cancil to the popup as a matter of principle?) | 05:14 |
| onefang | Then see what breaks, might provide a clue. | 05:15 |
| rrq | is there a monthly mdadm resync involved? | 05:15 |
| systemdlete | rrq: Ah... maybe that's it. I don't know. But if there is, I have never been prompted like this before. | 05:16 |
| systemdlete | This machine has been up and running beowulf now for months. | 05:17 |
| systemdlete | I did a "grep -ir /dev/md/mdX /etc" looking for such a reference. Nothing | 05:17 |
| systemdlete | There are no desktop icons for that file system (or others which I do not usually mount) | 05:18 |
| systemdlete | so it can't be an accidental click of the mouse (which I am known to do sometimes) | 05:18 |
| rrq | something in some /etc/cron*/mdadm | 05:20 |
| rrq | ask for password seems strange | 05:21 |
| systemdlete | I checked. Not seeing anything like that... | 05:21 |
| rrq | it suggests something doing "sudo" (?) | 05:22 |
| systemdlete | ok, now there is a daily (not monthly) job that runs mdadm | 05:23 |
| systemdlete | I was grepping through files, not looking for files named mdadm, that's why I missed it | 05:23 |
| systemdlete | the file is clearly named "mdadm" | 05:24 |
| systemdlete | that daily cronjob is running a scan on the device(s) | 05:24 |
| systemdlete | I've commented out the mdadm devices I don't mount in the /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf file | 05:26 |
| systemdlete | Hopefully that will avoid recurrences. But it is still strange. | 05:27 |
| systemdlete | rrq: Afaik, I am the only one here. That doesn't mean there can't be some trouble. | 05:27 |
| rrq | I suppose if the timing of that mdadm resync is right then that's a likely cause | 05:29 |
| rrq | (or "scan" it was) | 05:30 |
| systemdlete | I wonder if using thunar is connected to this. I have my VM icons in a desktop folder. | 05:31 |
| systemdlete | perhaps, somehow, even though that mdadm device is not IN that folder, thunar was getting a click on it anyway | 05:32 |
| systemdlete | Maybe a bit farfetched but I think within possibility. I have been having some problems with my mouse here. I've tried a couple different ones and they are clicking when I don't want them to, and not when I do. | 05:32 |
| systemdlete | (sorry I did not think of this sooner, actually) So some sort of phantom click was generated. | 05:33 |
| systemdlete | I have another mouse... | 05:34 |
| rrq | sounds more realistic though :) | 05:34 |
| systemdlete | rrq: I'll use this (3rd) mouse for a while and see how that goes. | 05:35 |
| onefang | Lots of mice running around clicking on things, you need a cat. Luckily, Devuan comes with one. | 05:35 |
| * systemdlete grumbles deeply about M-I-C-E | 05:35 | |
| systemdlete | onefang: Tell me more | 05:35 |
| systemdlete | I know it comes with a guard dog, called "firewall" | 05:35 |
| onefang | man cat | 05:36 |
| systemdlete | oh, that cat. yes. of course | 05:36 |
| systemdlete | I call my cat all the time, too. | 05:36 |
| systemdlete | So really linux is just a game of cat-and-mouse then? | 05:37 |
| onefang | If we keep this doggerel up, one of the admins will scream #devuan-offtopic at us. Though sometimes that's my job. | 05:38 |
| systemdlete | good thing you only have 1 fang | 05:41 |
| systemdlete | I'll be back with a follow up in a few hours. Thanks for all the input and feedback. | 05:42 |
| onefang | I got a dentist appointment first thing tomorrow morning. That might change. | 05:42 |
| systemdlete | (browsing the system logs I happened to notice a few messages mentioning Thunar, which made me think about the fact that my VM icons were in a folder) | 05:43 |
| systemdlete | (the messages themselves were not warnings or errors, but they did make me think back to the mouse issue I've been having) | 05:46 |
| rwp | systemdlete, That asking for a password thing is definitely the Desktop Environment. No self respecting window manager would do ask for it. | 06:06 |
| rwp | Not related to mdadm in any way. I am confident. | 06:06 |
| rwp | Thunar though might have done it. | 06:06 |
| systemdlete | rwp: I am inclined to agree, esp.given the problems with the mouse here | 06:06 |
| systemdlete | I've not seen ANY problems of any kind with mdadm in the decade or so I've been using it | 06:07 |
| rwp | mdadm operates at a lower layer of the software. It's already running as root to do its job. So it would not need to ask for a password in order to gain root priviledges. | 06:08 |
| systemdlete | right. In fact, beyond root. It is kernel driver | 06:08 |
| rwp | That mouse click problem... It isn't unheard of for bad things to generate mouse clicks. But I think it extremely unlikely it is a malicious agent. | 06:08 |
| systemdlete | only a portion of it runs outside | 06:08 |
| rwp | I think your best option is to switch to a mouseless widow manager like i3 and then throw the mouse away! :-) | 06:09 |
| systemdlete | some of the articles I found online said that it has to do with a switch inside the mouse. Sometimes the switch becomes faulty and one guy had even bridged a capacitor in to fix it! | 06:09 |
| systemdlete | rwp: I like that idea. It IS appealing. | 06:10 |
| systemdlete | But actually, I still prefer a mouse over a touchpad. Like my smartphone which is a touch pad. | 06:10 |
| rwp | I do still use the mouse for cutting and pasting. | 06:10 |
| systemdlete | cutting and pasting can be done with control keys | 06:10 |
| rwp | At this moment I am on my desktop and it does not have a touchpad. My keyboard here though is a Lenovo with the trackpoint. But that is not so good for cutting and pasting. | 06:11 |
| rwp | Some cutting and pasting can. Shift-Insert of course. But copying out of a web browser is tricky without a mouse. | 06:11 |
| systemdlete | I didn't like the tiny trackball at first -- I've worked on a laptop that had one built in between the G and H keys. But I got used to it, and I kind of liked it. | 06:11 |
| systemdlete | You don't have to move your fingers off the home keys to use it. | 06:12 |
| pingpongball | if i want to ask question regarding sysVinit where can i ask | 13:22 |
| GyrosGeier | likely here | 13:25 |
| pingpongball | this is my question | 13:26 |
| pingpongball | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/70259866/how-to-enable-disable-start-stop-services-in-sysvinit | 13:26 |
| GyrosGeier | sysvinit uses start/stop scripts | 13:27 |
| pingpongball | so what can i do it for it? | 13:28 |
| GyrosGeier | because there's a lot of common code, there is a library of common functions | 13:28 |
| GyrosGeier | I'd start with a template script and delete what I don't need | 13:28 |
| pingpongball | r u a devuan maintainer | 13:28 |
| pingpongball | i asked same question on other forum | 13:29 |
| pingpongball | they told | 13:29 |
| pingpongball | regarding on sysVinit | 13:29 |
| pingpongball | sysvinit doesn't have user-level services. the common workaround was an @reboot job in crontab | 13:29 |
| GyrosGeier | https://github.com/fhd/init-script-template/blob/master/template is an acceptable starting point | 13:29 |
| GyrosGeier | ah wait | 13:30 |
| GyrosGeier | there are no user services indeed | 13:30 |
| pingpongball | is there any library to do so, without making such scripts | 13:30 |
| pingpongball | i should put that template to bashrc | 13:31 |
| GyrosGeier | you could define start/stop functions in bashrc, that would work | 13:33 |
| GyrosGeier | the template assumes that it's a full script that is called with a "start" or "stop" parameter | 13:33 |
| pingpongball | Thank you GyrosGeier | 13:35 |
| pingpongball | Sir i can see readme tells | 13:37 |
| pingpongball | Copy template to /etc/init.d and rename it to something meaningful | 13:38 |
| GyrosGeier | yes | 13:38 |
| pingpongball | init.d is folder or should i rename template to init.d | 13:39 |
| GyrosGeier | sysvinit has a script collection in /etc/init.d, and symlinks in /etc/rc0.d, /etc/rc1.d, ... /etc/rc6.d that tell which script need to be run | 13:40 |
| GyrosGeier | that's a folder | 13:40 |
| pingpongball | yes yes :) | 13:40 |
| GyrosGeier | a daemon can be started and stopped by calling the init script directly, or by init using the run-parts utility | 13:41 |
| GyrosGeier | "/etc/init.d/bluetooth stop" shuts down bluetooth for example | 13:41 |
| GyrosGeier | and /etc/rc0.d/K01bluetooth is a symlink to ../init.d/bluetooth | 13:42 |
| pingpongball | oh wow cool , | 13:42 |
| pingpongball | symlink | 13:42 |
| pingpongball | Then edit the script and enter that name after Provides: (between ### BEGIN INIT INFO and ### END INIT INFO). | 13:43 |
| pingpongball | what should i do inside it | 13:43 |
| GyrosGeier | so when shutting down (aka "runlevel 0"), all the K.. scripts in /etc/rc0.d are called with a parameter "stop", and all the S.. scripts are called with a parameter "start" | 13:43 |
| GyrosGeier | the comment at the bit provides extra information | 13:44 |
| GyrosGeier | *at the start | 13:44 |
| GyrosGeier | that isn't actually used by init itself, but by more efficient replacements for run-parts | 13:44 |
| GyrosGeier | normally, the number behind K.. and S.. gives the order in which scripts are run | 13:45 |
| GyrosGeier | but for some people, that is too slow | 13:45 |
| GyrosGeier | so there are "dependency-based" boot systems where you can declare dependencies like in systemd | 13:45 |
| pingpongball | GyrosGeier how did you learn this stuff, would you provide this tutorial | 13:46 |
| GyrosGeier | I learned that a bit over twenty years ago | 13:46 |
| pingpongball | oh :) | 13:46 |
| GyrosGeier | mostly by reading the existing scripts | 13:46 |
| GyrosGeier | the sysvinit system is very simple | 13:46 |
| pingpongball | should i change required-start or which part should i change to add "emacs --daemon" | 13:47 |
| pingpongball | I see cmd, is it cmd to put | 13:47 |
| GyrosGeier | can you read shell scripts? | 13:48 |
| pingpongball | =# | 13:48 |
| GyrosGeier | in this template, cmd is the command | 13:48 |
| GyrosGeier | dir is the working directory | 13:48 |
| GyrosGeier | and user is the username | 13:48 |
| GyrosGeier | you can see where these variables are used later | 13:49 |
| pingpongball | if i write something bad, would it break or is it be fine? | 13:49 |
| GyrosGeier | as long as you don't create the symlinks, nothing can break, because system startup ignores your script, and you have to call it manually | 13:49 |
| GyrosGeier | you then test it manually, then use update-rc.d(8) to create the symlinks | 13:50 |
| pingpongball | yes i've written | 13:50 |
| pingpongball | cmd: "emacs --daemon" | 13:50 |
| pingpongball | user: "ping" | 13:50 |
| pingpongball | how can i test it? without creating sysmlinks | 13:51 |
| GyrosGeier | just call it | 13:52 |
| pingpongball | inside | 13:52 |
| pingpongball | ### BEGIN INIT INFO and ### END INIT INFO | 13:52 |
| pingpongball | I've just uncommented , nothing changed | 13:52 |
| GyrosGeier | from the shell's point of view, that's just comments | 13:53 |
| GyrosGeier | these should remain comments | 13:53 |
| pingpongball | oh i commented it | 13:53 |
| pingpongball | again | 13:53 |
| GyrosGeier | the shell will ignore them, but if you use startpar(8) instead of run-parts(8) during system startup, that info will be used to start things in the right order | 13:54 |
| av6 | i think the header is used by update-rc.d that builds /etc/init.d/.depend.foo | 13:56 |
| pingpongball | i should run this afterwards | 13:57 |
| pingpongball | algorithms is my name of template | 13:57 |
| pingpongball | /etc/init.d/algorithms start | 13:57 |
| av6 | i guess then the .depend.foo is used by startpar | 13:57 |
| av6 | (IOW update-rc.d is a required step) | 13:57 |
| GyrosGeier | yes-ish | 13:58 |
| pingpongball | what is startpar and run-parts, and update-rc.d | 13:58 |
| pingpongball | bash permission denied | 13:58 |
| GyrosGeier | tools to manage symlinks | 13:58 |
| pingpongball | it denied | 13:58 |
| GyrosGeier | you can look in the manual to understand them | 13:58 |
| pingpongball | using sudo also denied | 13:59 |
| GyrosGeier | the script needs to be executable | 13:59 |
| * av6 experiences ltt flashbacks | 13:59 | |
| pingpongball | chmod +x /etc/init.d/algorithms | 13:59 |
| pingpongball | is it | 13:59 |
| GyrosGeier | yes | 13:59 |
| pingpongball | ah i get error | 14:00 |
| pingpongball | emacs command not found | 14:00 |
| pingpongball | :D | 14:02 |
| pingpongball | yes it worked | 14:02 |
| pingpongball | yeah it worked | 14:02 |
| pingpongball | :* | 14:02 |
| pingpongball | sir now does it just run on startup | 14:03 |
| pingpongball | :) | 14:03 |
| pingpongball | i'll update my answer later | 14:03 |
| GyrosGeier | to run it on startup, you also need to use update-rc.d to create the symlinks | 14:09 |
| GyrosGeier | the best starting point for that would be the manual page | 14:09 |
| fsmithred | Why would all of /var/log/*.1 files be empty? | 14:12 |
| fsmithred | This is a laptop, and it looks like all those logs got turned over on Nov. 4 | 14:12 |
| pingpongball51 | how can i use update-rc.d to create the symlinks? | 14:16 |
| pingpongball51 | again thanks:) | 14:16 |
| jonas1 | Hi everyone, I'm trying to install devuan on my laptop. I already have Windows 10 and I want to keep it installed. I have a gpt and already created a partition for devuan.So now I've booted from an usb-stick with devuan live. I runned the installer, verified my partitions and now I'm asked where to install GRUB. If I understand it correctly I don't have a MBP on gpt(?). What do I have to do to | 18:16 |
| jonas1 | install grub? Thank you | 18:16 |
| ham5urg | I'm missing the xscreensaver-settings-icon in xfce4. Is there a package I missed? | 20:24 |
| dlcusa | ham5urg, I doubt it. I've never seen that icon in CRUX. If you can't look into it, I'll attempt to make that a priority. | 20:29 |
| dlcusa | I just open the xscreensaver app and tweak the basic and advanced panes. | 20:30 |
| dlcusa | s/app/settings -> xscreensaver | 20:31 |
| dlcusa | ham5urg, ^ | 20:32 |
| ham5urg | dlcusa, there is no xscreensaver entry in settings, using daedalus | 20:36 |
| dlcusa | ham5urg: Sorry, it's Screensaver, not xscreensaver. | 20:37 |
| dlcusa | ham5urg, I'm using whiskermenu. | 20:38 |
| barrett9h | hi | 22:04 |
| barrett9h | Everything was working fine with ASCII, but now that I upgraded to Chimaera audio is not working well. | 22:05 |
| barrett9h | I get distorted audio with Firefox, and sometimes audio stop working at all until I reboot. | 22:07 |
| barrett9h | After updating from ASCII, I tried reformating / and installing Chimaera from scratch, with the same results. :-( | 22:07 |
| barrett9h | I use the MATE desktop environment, if that matters. | 22:08 |
| barrett9h | Can anyone help me solve this? I'm about to give up Devuan (for now) and try another distro, or even *BSD. | 22:09 |
| barrett9h | Come to think of it, pulseaudio came from the same guy that invented systemd, and it has been and endless source of problems. Shouldn't we get rid of it too? | 22:10 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: trying it without pulseaudio is a very good and strongly advised troubleshooting step, but if it used to work with ascii that strongly suggests the possibility of a kernel regression too. were you using pulseaudio on ascii? | 22:11 |
| golinux | Did you go directly from ASCII to Chimaera or did you go through Beowulf to Chimaera? | 22:13 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: fyi though, kernel 5.14 is available in chimaera-backports and may behave better for you. | 22:13 |
| av6 | you can call me names, but i personally think there's a way bigger chance of audio breaking because of pulseaudio than because of kernel | 22:13 |
| gnarface | av6: eh, it's about 60/40 | 22:13 |
| gnarface | av6: maybe 50/50 if you're using snd_hda_intel | 22:14 |
| av6 | i'm on multiple machines with snd_hda_intel and never had any regressions, since forever | 22:14 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: it's worth mentioning that there's almost no chance this is devuan-specific; the same versions of kernel and userspace tools in debian or any other debian derivative that share them are going to behave exactly the same | 22:14 |
| barrett9h | gnarface: yes, I was using pulseaudio on ascii | 22:15 |
| barrett9h | golinux: sorry, I meant beowulf to chimaera | 22:15 |
| barrett9h | well, I'm using devuan since alpha days | 22:15 |
| barrett9h | gnarface: I'll try 5.14 before giving up | 22:16 |
| av6 | is it firefox only? | 22:16 |
| gnarface | yea, run some tests with speaker-test and aplay/arecord | 22:16 |
| gnarface | make sure it's not just firefox's fault | 22:16 |
| barrett9h | snd_hda_intel here | 22:17 |
| gnarface | in general, firefox and wine both make bad choices for debugging anything other than themselves | 22:17 |
| av6 | maybe you'll see something in about:support | 22:17 |
| av6 | there's a media section | 22:18 |
| barrett9h | I use mpv a lot to play things | 22:18 |
| gnarface | hmm. yea i can think of one thing specifically; disable the Cisco OpenH264 plugin | 22:18 |
| gnarface | in firefox about:plugins | 22:18 |
| barrett9h | the Firefox thing is just distorted audio. it stops as soon as I close Firefox (or the offending tab). the issue of the audio stopping working at all has (as far as I know) nothing to do with Firefox. | 22:19 |
| gnarface | it's provided for cross-platform compatibility but it's inferior to the native one that ships with every modern linux distro | 22:19 |
| av6 | so audio in firefox affects other audio streams? what about audio output using two mpv at the same time? | 22:20 |
| av6 | (thinking maybe it's the mixing) | 22:21 |
| av6 | preferably with different sample rates, e.g. 44.1 and 48 | 22:21 |
| gnarface | av6: with the snd_hda_intel thing, you've just been very lucky or only used it for stereo half-duplex. | 22:27 |
| gnarface | av6: it is a catch-all driver kinda like the usb-audio one but primarily for supporting products mostly ironically made by Intel's competitors | 22:28 |
| gnarface | av6: i've used it across several motherboards over almost 2 decades now; support for them is not uniform in quality | 22:28 |
| gnarface | av6: i agree that pulseaudio is probably higher up on the list of usual suspects but in the case of the snd_hda_intel driver i wouldn't exactly turn your back on it, either | 22:29 |
| gnarface | av6: it *almost* never fails at outputting stereo, but if you try testing using 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound, or doing any output while also recording at the same time to mic input, that's where the seams start to appear frayed | 22:30 |
| barrett9h | stereo-only here | 22:31 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: i think you can test without pulseaudio even if it's installed by doing something like this as root: pasuspender -- speaker-test -c 2 | 22:32 |
| barrett9h | installing linux-image-5.14.0 now | 22:32 |
| av6 | fair enough, i didn't try to squeeze every bit of functionality out of my audio, always going stereo and occasionally full-duplex, but nevertheless it worked fine for me | 22:33 |
| barrett9h | I tried this pasuspender. As root it gives a connection failure. As my user it "works", but I hear no sound. | 22:34 |
| av6 | well, isn't it a catch-all driver because it implements hda intel, which is simply a protocol that audio chip talks? | 22:35 |
| barrett9h | gonna reboot now to test 5.14 brb | 22:35 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: maybe it's easier to just stop pulseaudio; i don't think it will relaunch it like with systemd | 22:35 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: oh, try that first yea | 22:36 |
| av6 | barrett9h: did you try multiple audio streams with different sample rates yet? | 22:36 |
| barrett9h | how do I stop pulseaudio? If I kill it it just comes back. | 22:36 |
| barrett9h | av6: nope, atm the audio is not working, so I can't test | 22:37 |
| gnarface | av6: it's a protocol licensed by intel to 3rd party chip vendors to support a range of form factors and hardware capabilities; the fundamental support overhead is identical to the usb-audio scenario even if the licensing/ownership parts aren't | 22:37 |
| gnarface | av6: (most the devices in the wild using this driver aren't even made by Intel) | 22:38 |
| av6 | yeah, i'm saying it makes sense that the protocol is handled by just one kernel module | 22:39 |
| av6 | and then other modules can depend on it | 22:39 |
| gnarface | i was just saying it doesn't make sense to design hardware this way, no matter who you foist the blame off to for support issues afterwards | 22:39 |
| av6 | why doesn't it make sense if it's more or less standardized? | 22:40 |
| gnarface | because it proverbially "bites off more than it can chew" so it's rather less standardized than more | 22:41 |
| barrett9h | rebooted, sound is working now, but it proves nothing, as it was usually temporarely "fixed" with a reboot before | 22:41 |
| barrett9h | I'll have to use it for some time to see if the problem went away. | 22:41 |
| gnarface | av6: and their cost-cutting results in support issues that trickled down to here | 22:41 |
| av6 | barrett9h: well, you can try and wait for the problem to reappear and kill pulseaudio, that would restart it | 22:42 |
| av6 | if that fixes it you'll know where's the problem | 22:43 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: if you can reliably trigger the failure maybe someone can come up with a workaround in the form of a module parameter or custom alsa pulseaudio config change | 22:43 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: if it never comes back just assume it was a regression that was already caught and count yourself lucky | 22:43 |
| gnarface | barrett9h: there is one known issue with that driver i think probably is not fixed still and probably never will be, but i've only managed to find one program that causes the issue, it was the Civ5 linux port on Steam and it doesn't happen until you've had it playing the in-game music constantly for a good several hours. any chance this issue has only appeared to you after a very long constant audio stream source of | 22:45 |
| gnarface | some sort? | 22:45 |
| gnarface | the symptom is that after a very long time the audio just starts stuttering/chopping in a very annoying fashion, similar but not quite identical to the type of stuttering you get when you get a buffer underrun | 22:47 |
| gnarface | it didn't actually require a reboot or anything, just a restart of Civ5 | 22:47 |
| gnarface | the difference seemed to be that while most games would open a separate connection to the sound card for every sound, Civ5 would actually just open one connection, once at the opening menu music, then never put it down, presumably software-mixing all additional sound effects into this one stream internally | 22:52 |
| gnarface | and even additional music tracks | 22:52 |
| gnarface | so for some reason after several straight hours of this, the driver occasionally will drop a beat and never fully recover | 22:53 |
| gnarface | unclear if this is a hardware or software issue, but it is a common issue that is either the driver or the hardware's fault, that most people just blame on Civ5 | 22:55 |
| gnarface | and it might be related to your issue, barrett9h | 22:55 |
| ham5urg | Is there a tool to generate a .dot file from a package and all dependencies? (must-have, recommends, optional) | 23:22 |
| ham5urg | And dependecies of dependencies of ... to the very end. | 23:23 |
| rrq | ham5urg: like debtree? | 23:25 |
| ham5urg | rrg, yes. Is there a way to recursively include all packages which will be involved? | 23:29 |
| adhoc | ham5urg: you mean dot files, as in graph viz ? | 23:36 |
| ham5urg | adhoc, yes | 23:37 |
| ham5urg | debtree prints it recursively out. Nice. Thanks guys. | 23:41 |
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