critr | is default-jdk safe to install now, or should i wait a few more days? (regarding l4j) | 01:57 |
---|---|---|
Hydragyrum | jdk isn't going to log stuff randomly on it's own | 01:58 |
Hydragyrum | the risk lies in things using log4j which accept arbitrary data from the network | 01:58 |
critr | yes. but without jre any l4j i don't know about can't run. | 02:00 |
Hydragyrum | fair point, but I'd argue that a firewall is the solution instead | 02:01 |
Hydragyrum | if nothing touches your network ports where you don't know it's ok, then there isn't stuff to get logged | 02:02 |
critr | agreed | 02:02 |
UsL | yes, a decent WAF module in any decent FW would stop log4j at the first step. Goes to show how many unprotected systems there are out there. | 02:36 |
UsL | oops, I thought this was offtopic channel. | 02:36 |
gnarface | having a problem with wifi devices disconnecting almost immediately after authentication unless a constant ping is running | 03:39 |
gnarface | not sure if it's a hostapd configuration issue or a driver bug or what | 03:39 |
gnarface | anyone seen this? | 03:39 |
gnarface | signal strength is very suspect too | 03:40 |
gnarface | i don't suspect a power management issue at the client end because it's not happening with other routers | 03:41 |
Xenguy | Never heard of it, but sounds weird | 04:04 |
raindodger | Haven't had the same issue, but I can't really test since I use an ethernet cable instead of Wi-Fi. Maybe try putting your Wi-Fi interface down and back up again? | 04:25 |
raindodger | Use this command to find out what your interface is | 04:25 |
raindodger | ~$ ifconfig | 04:25 |
raindodger | It will likely be wlan0 or maybe wlp3s0. Then use this command to take it down | 04:26 |
* Xenguy uses the cable also... | 04:26 | |
raindodger | ~$ ifconfig [interface-name] down | 04:26 |
raindodger | Then up again and see if it helps | 04:26 |
voila | is libvirt proprietary trash? | 04:33 |
Xenguy | Unfortunately someone decided to deprecate the 'ifconfig' command, although it still works here as root | 04:33 |
Xenguy | I think 'ip' is the command replacement du jour, but not totally sure | 04:33 |
voila | that or nmap seems to be the fad | 04:34 |
voila | please tell me i'm making a mistake in not seeing libvirt anywhere in the repo | 04:38 |
Hydragyrum | Xenguy: yes, iproute2 (ip command) is the currently preferred interface on linux these days | 04:56 |
Xenguy | Thanks | 04:57 |
raindodger | I still use ifconfig because it just werks (also, habit). Although requiring root privileges is a little annoying sometimes | 04:59 |
Xenguy | Not a showstopper, but the great thing about *nix is that it's perfect already and doesn't need to change = ) | 04:59 |
Xenguy | And yet, change it does... | 05:00 |
Xenguy | We just draw that line at systemd : -) | 05:00 |
raindodger | @voila libvirt doesn't appear to be in Devuan's main repos, but there is a package called libvirt0. Idk if it does the same tasks though | 05:00 |
raindodger | Maybe try looking in the nonfree repos? | 05:00 |
Xenguy | Of course, and try apt-cache search libvirt | 05:00 |
Xenguy | What turns up? | 05:00 |
raindodger | Linux does just keep changing. Which makes sense I guess. The only thing that doesn't change, is change itself. But why, oh why, is proprietary software making itself into the GNU/Linux ecosystem? | 05:02 |
raindodger | The Linux kernel already contains binary blobs and nonfree firmware for the Linux kernel is a thing that exists | 05:03 |
Hydragyrum | raindodger: he left... | 05:03 |
raindodger | When Torvalds released Linux back in the 90's, I don't think that's what he would have wanted to eventually happen | 05:03 |
raindodger | @Hydragyrum Ah yes, I didn't even notice... | 05:04 |
Hydragyrum | well the nonfree blobs in kernel are needed just to make half the hardware out there these days run | 05:04 |
Hydragyrum | imagine having to tell people "oh yeah sorry you can't use your wifi, graphics, etc. under linux, but come on switch it's so much better" | 05:04 |
Hydragyrum | "you can buy different hardware and it'll work" | 05:05 |
* Xenguy didn't notice anyone leave... | 05:05 | |
Xenguy | Who, Bill Gates? | 05:05 |
Xenguy | Hydragyrum, Yeah, those are the tradeoff arrangements that are going to happen when real hardware gets into the picture | 05:06 |
Hydragyrum | there *is* linux-libre kernel for people who only have hardware supported by fully-open drivers/firmware, but most people will need the non-free drivers just to be able to reasonably use linux | 05:06 |
raindodger | @Hydragyrum That's true. But it wouldn't be necessary if hardware manufacturers didn't close-source most of their products. Unfortunately, most computer users are Windows users who let close-sourcing be allowed to happen | 05:06 |
Xenguy | Sure | 05:06 |
Hydragyrum | raindodger: 100% agreed, open source hardware needs to become more popular | 05:07 |
Xenguy | That would be cool socialist | 05:07 |
Xenguy | = ) | 05:07 |
Xenguy | aha! | 05:07 |
Xenguy | Finally at last | 05:07 |
Xenguy | I will defeat thee! | 05:08 |
Hydragyrum | there are companies that make open source hardware, but it doesn't have enough traction to get anywhere | 05:08 |
Xenguy | What, not enough profit? | 05:08 |
Hydragyrum | not enough people care -> open source hardware doesn't make much $$ -> not much funding into developing it -> it stays mediocre | 05:08 |
raindodger | Capitalism and open-source can co-exist imo. Just make the source code publicly available, but illegal to modify for commercial gain. Most people aren't going to know how to grab the source and compile it for themselves. They'll still hand over money for pre-compiled binary | 05:09 |
Xenguy | Why improve the world even more, when you can just settle for making more money | 05:09 |
Xenguy | Makes sense to me | 05:09 |
GoatAvenger | I fear the state of free software will gradually diminish; things like Neuralink and advancements in AI are just going to outpace the rebel alliance | 05:10 |
GoatAvenger | The Empire will Strike back.. | 05:10 |
Xenguy | raindodger, There are various models that try to monetize FOSS, sure | 05:10 |
GoatAvenger | You don't need to monitize the software, just pay the developers to develope it, and pay the technicians and customer service folks to do their bit, etc.. etc.. | 05:11 |
Xenguy | GoatAvenger, The rebel alliance will always be there, and we outnumber the other monkeys. Now AI? Hard to say | 05:11 |
onefang | #devuan-offtopic strikes back! | 05:11 |
GoatAvenger | the problem is, with free software, you can't build an empire like microsoft | 05:11 |
Xenguy | Aha! | 05:11 |
Hydragyrum | you don't need to sell your software to make money on it | 05:11 |
GoatAvenger | that requires exploitation | 05:11 |
GoatAvenger | and that's what most people want to do | 05:11 |
GoatAvenger | become obscenely rich | 05:11 |
Xenguy | Love that word | 05:11 |
Hydragyrum | there's a lot of companies that make money supporting their free software products (i.e. red hat, canonical) | 05:12 |
Hydragyrum | and there's also a lot of money in *aaS | 05:12 |
raindodger | @Hydragyrum >you don't need to sell your software to make money on it | 05:12 |
onefang | OK, someone ping me when this channel gets back on topic. Pffft | 05:12 |
Xenguy | onefang, You can count on me | 05:13 |
raindodger | e.g. Google with data-collection bundled in all their services....... | 05:13 |
Xenguy | Friday Night Fracas! | 05:13 |
GoatAvenger | i'll continue this in offtopic then, if anyone cares to do so.. | 05:13 |
Xenguy | ^^ headline | 05:13 |
GoatAvenger | ~ciao | 05:13 |
Xenguy | But of course! | 05:13 |
raindodger | True. It suits off-topic, not the tech help IRC | 05:14 |
Xenguy | This is supposed to be a support channel, but they refuse to label it as such in the /topic | 05:14 |
u4t | anyone here use zfs? apparently it doesn't like openrc | 10:07 |
u4t | wondering which init/rc system i should use now (: | 10:08 |
raindodger | Sysvinit just werks | 11:04 |
raindodger | runit is nice too | 11:04 |
u4t | yah i think i gonna try out runit | 11:04 |
raindodger | Yeah runit works pretty well. Starts services quickly at system boot | 11:06 |
fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3716 | 11:07 |
fsmithred | ^^^ runit discussion | 11:07 |
u4t | when i first switched to devuan i selected openrc because i had problems getting runit to run nicely (: | 11:07 |
raindodger | What problems did you have? | 11:08 |
u4t | i forget. it was a long time ago now :D | 11:08 |
fsmithred | when you install runit, it defaults to using sysvinit scripts, but there are sample runit scripts you can use. They work. | 11:09 |
raindodger | I remember on Beowulf I had a problem with runit not detecting the Tor daemon, so I couldn't use it to start, stop and restart Tor. But then after doing a clean install of the whole OS, the problem didn't happen again. It was really weird | 11:10 |
raindodger | I didn't know that. How come it uses sysvinit scripts? | 11:11 |
fsmithred | so that stuff will work? | 11:12 |
u4t | raindodger: so that things don't suddenly break when switching to it (: | 11:12 |
fsmithred | I think you'd have to get everyone to add runit scripts to their packages to avoid using sysv scripts | 11:12 |
u4t | yah | 11:13 |
fsmithred | or figure out a way to get runit to use service files | 11:13 |
raindodger | Interesting. So it's to make runit compatible with more packages? | 11:14 |
fsmithred | I'd say it the other way. Packages need to change to be compatible with runit. | 11:15 |
u4t | if anything it's legacy support | 11:15 |
raindodger | @fsmithred That makes sense. I guess it's a little bit like renovating a house. Any additions you make need to be compatible with the existing structure. | 11:20 |
fsmithred | Here's a live-iso with runit you can play with: https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/refracta_11_runit_test_amd64-20211121_0007.iso | 11:21 |
fsmithred | there are some sample runit scripts included and some implemented | 11:22 |
u4t | can't spell runit without ruin (: | 11:23 |
fsmithred | I'm happy to ruin someone's plan to dominate | 11:24 |
raindodger | That's cool, I didn't know Devuan provided a live iso with something besides sysvinit. Thanks for that | 11:25 |
fsmithred | that's not official devuan release. That's a Refracta experimental release. | 11:26 |
fsmithred | I like to play. | 11:26 |
u4t | whee first large backup chunk done | 11:26 |
raindodger | Oh yeah, just looked at the URL a little more closely | 11:27 |
u4t | time to try out runit | 11:27 |
raindodger | So is Refracta a fork of Devuan that's also maintained by the same dev team? | 11:28 |
u4t | hm | 11:28 |
u4t | should i install runit-run or runit-init? | 11:28 |
fsmithred | Refracta is a debian respin that morphed into a devuan respin, and it's maintained by me right now. | 11:29 |
u4t | neato | 11:29 |
fsmithred | there were a few other refracta devs, but they're doing other things now. | 11:29 |
fsmithred | runit-init I think | 11:29 |
fsmithred | and I also make the devuan-live isos | 11:30 |
u4t | yah looks like runit-run is for if you still want sysvinit as your /sbin/init | 11:30 |
raindodger | According to apt search runit, runit-run has systemd and sysv integration while runit-init seems to be pure runit, so take your pick I guess | 11:30 |
u4t | boot on runit seemed faster than openrc was | 11:32 |
u4t | but display flickered a few times before X came up | 11:32 |
raindodger | Oh really, you make the Devuan live isos? That's kinda funny. I used to use TailsOS as my live distro of choice for browsing Tor, but after I decided to get away from systemd, I obviously needed a replacement | 11:33 |
fsmithred | did you try heads? | 11:33 |
raindodger | So I settled on Devuan's live isos and use some of my own bash scripts to install some packages and make a few edits as I see fit | 11:34 |
raindodger | I heard about heads, but development seems to have slowed right down last I saw | 11:34 |
fsmithred | yeah, I guess there's not much happening with heads now | 11:35 |
fsmithred | some of the devuan derivatives might be a better choice for customizing. The official live isos are full of metapackages, so removing stuff can be tricky sometimes. | 11:37 |
raindodger | Unfortunately not. Your live isos for Devuan pretty much do the trick though. I just use some bash scripts to install Tor and some other software, change sources.list to point to hidden service repos, and couple of other things I can't remember | 11:38 |
raindodger | Then I'm good to go with browsing Tor on a secure live image | 11:39 |
raindodger | Man it's been a while since I last used Devuan live though. Or Tor in general. I'll need to have a look at my scripts and go through them | 11:40 |
fsmithred | I started including tor browser in refracta isos. | 11:40 |
raindodger | Oh yeah? I'll download some time in the near future and give it a play test. Thanks for letting me know | 11:41 |
fsmithred | but it's easy enough to make your own | 11:42 |
fsmithred | sure | 11:42 |
fsmithred | you probably should have a VM or spare partition with the installed system that makes your live isos. Then you can make a new one when tor gets updates. | 11:44 |
u4t | rebooting also seems faster with runit over openrc | 11:45 |
fsmithred | other option is to make a persistent (rw) partition, | 11:45 |
u4t | and zfsutils doesn't complain :P | 11:45 |
u4t | so next few days i gotta try backing up all this data and reformatting | 11:45 |
fsmithred | but then you might want to wipe it and start fresh periodically | 11:45 |
u4t | <fsmithred> other option is to make a persistent (rw) partition << make it a ramdisk for performance reasons ;) | 11:46 |
fsmithred | you can boot the OS to ram | 11:47 |
fsmithred | maybe the persistent volume, too. Not sure about that. | 11:47 |
u4t | mount the entire internet to ram | 11:49 |
u4t | then you never have to wait for a download ever again | 11:50 |
raindodger | I usually just use a spare laptop containing a master copy of my bash scripts and use that to edit them. I keep a copy of those scripts (along with a folder containing packages I need) on a USB stick. When I feel like browsing Tor, I boot into Devuan live, copy contents of USB stick into home directory, remove pen drive, execute scripts and finally connect to my router | 11:53 |
raindodger | Nice and simple, although I suppose editing the actual ISO image itself would probably be a better solution | 11:54 |
u4t | "editing the iso" doesn't sound like a great idea to me | 11:54 |
u4t | iso9660 is not exactly designed to be a rewritable filesystem | 11:54 |
raindodger | Why's that? | 11:55 |
fsmithred | keep a VM to make a new iso. It's pretty easy with refractasnapshot | 11:55 |
u4t | the typical way to do it is to mount/extract it, and generate a new .iso | 11:55 |
fsmithred | make any changes/updates in the vm and spin up a new iso. Takes a few minutes. | 11:56 |
u4t | yah or do that (: | 11:56 |
raindodger | @fsmithred oh yeah, I forgot about refractasnapshot. I remember hearing about that a while back | 11:56 |
raindodger | You can use it to make your own isos, right? | 11:57 |
fsmithred | yes | 11:57 |
fsmithred | that is its reason for existence | 11:57 |
fsmithred | https://refracta.org/docs/readme.refractasnapshot.txt | 11:58 |
raindodger | That's actually a pretty unique feature to add to a distro. I don't think any other distro is doing that afaik | 11:58 |
fsmithred | antix has one that's similar | 12:01 |
fsmithred | miyolinux is a devuan respin that has just basic desktop or window manager with no apps and refracta tools for making your own. (Make It Your Own) | 12:03 |
raindodger | That sounds interesting. Do you have a URL? | 12:06 |
brocashelm | refracta imo is a more minimal install that's already nicely configured. it even comes with better defaults for the sysrq key and uses alsa instead of pulse for sound. i've settled for refracta in the long run | 12:12 |
brocashelm | raindodger: https://sourceforge.net/projects/miyolinux/ | 12:12 |
furrymcgee | nothing wrong with a rw filesystem if you have a build script like debootstrap | 12:13 |
furrymcgee | the whole iso/container/live tech requires a lot of boilerplate | 12:13 |
raindodger | @brocashelm Thanks for the link. May as well check it out | 12:14 |
brocashelm | yw | 12:15 |
aitor | hi | 14:31 |
fsmithred | hi | 14:32 |
aitor | hi fsf :) | 14:33 |
fsmithred | how are you? | 14:33 |
fsmithred | lol | 14:33 |
aitor | very well | 14:33 |
aitor | this morning i've been working on the website of gnuinos | 14:34 |
aitor | https://www.gnuinos.org/ | 14:34 |
aitor | feedback is welcome, particularly when it comes to my english | 14:34 |
fsmithred | it looks nice | 14:35 |
fsmithred | ok, I'll read it | 14:35 |
aitor | thanks | 14:35 |
fsmithred | aitor, there are some spots that could use editing, but all of it is understandable. | 14:40 |
fsmithred | I'm not up for re-writing it now. Some sentences probably need to be re-cast. | 14:41 |
aitor | ok | 14:41 |
fsmithred | your english is pretty good | 14:41 |
aitor | mmmh | 14:42 |
fsmithred | lol | 14:42 |
fsmithred | I didn't say it's fast, just pretty good. | 14:42 |
aitor | wait a minute... | 14:43 |
fsmithred | ok | 14:43 |
aitor | somebody had an issue under ascii, and i'm trying to find it | 14:44 |
fsmithred | forum or mailing list? | 14:44 |
aitor | here in the irc, it was related to a missing package | 14:45 |
aitor | libupower... | 14:45 |
fsmithred | I recall reading that, maybe in the log | 14:45 |
aitor | libupower-glib3 | 14:46 |
aitor | it's available in debian stretch, but missing in devuan.org, at list a couple of days ago | 14:47 |
aitor | maybe the repo of devuan ascii wasn't in sync at that moment, i didn't verify today | 14:48 |
fsmithred | yeah, I see it's missing in ascii | 14:48 |
fsmithred | I'll pass along the message | 14:48 |
aitor | ok, thanks | 14:48 |
aitor | fsmithred, time to eat, see you later | 14:51 |
fsmithred | ok, take care | 14:51 |
aitor | bye | 14:51 |
furrymcgee | curious if there is a 'Directory: pool/GNUINOS/..' in Sources file | 15:09 |
matilda_ | Any problems running libvirt built from source? | 17:58 |
sadoon_albader[m | You could try building the one is unstable from source as a deb pkg | 19:02 |
sadoon_albader[m | I did that a while ago to use 7.6.0 I think it was | 19:03 |
sadoon_albader[m | Add unstable as a deb-src (not deb) in your /etc/apt/sources.list | 19:03 |
sadoon_albader[m | apt source libvirt | 19:04 |
sadoon_albader[m | cd libvirt(whatever it is) | 19:04 |
sadoon_albader[m | dpkg-buildpackage | 19:04 |
sadoon_albader[m | Look into the options of building a deb pkg online to fit your needs | 19:04 |
sadoon_albader[m | This will be much better than just building libvirt from source | 19:04 |
sadoon_albader[m | Oh, he/she left.. | 19:05 |
* sadoon_albader[m shoots himself | 19:05 | |
aitor_ | Oh, sadoon_albader[m left us... | 20:45 |
sadoon_albader[m | No I'm here | 20:46 |
sadoon_albader[m | :D | 20:46 |
aitor_ | hehe | 20:46 |
aitor_ | i wonder which is the goal of building libvirt from source | 20:48 |
sadoon_albader[m | I had a nasty bug that apparently only hit ppc64le on the bullseye/chimaera shipped version | 21:24 |
sadoon_albader[m | So that's my reason | 21:24 |
aitor_ | ok, people were talking about aqemu and libvirt during these days, but i didn't read it in detail | 21:30 |
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