| rrq | jason1234: a more focus approach would be to find the "teams" binary, and then run "ldd" on that, to see which libraries it depends on. Then one can follow up on those, rather than xfce4 as a whole. | 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| aitor | i didn't know about Microsoft Teams | 00:31 |
| aitor | i thought jason1234 was trying to get a dual boot devuan/MS, and therefore i was looking for the grub in the package list | 00:32 |
| aitor | i didn't understand :) | 00:32 |
| aitor | rrq: i'm building again the installer-iso images of gnuinos, because i fixed the problem related to the non bootable efi partition | 00:36 |
| aitor | but i'll write about this in the mailing list. There was a thread focused to this issue, to the first boot. | 00:39 |
| Kitty | is there anyway to create a user, stick a ssh key in their home dir, then when they log in, let them set a password without having one set first? | 16:33 |
| furrymcgee | ssh $(hostname) passwd | 16:47 |
| john | question: where in /etc is the config for eth0. I need to remove setting for eth0, cause i am using vlans | 16:57 |
| furrymcgee | maybe /etc/network/interfaces* | 17:02 |
| john | if i edit that file or create a file interfaces.d it break NetworkManager | 17:03 |
| john | when i use "ip link add link eth0 name eth0.10 type vlan id 10" it adds the entry in NetworkManager that can be viewed in the GUI. | 17:05 |
| john | problem is: I need to remove settings from eth0 (non vlan) but the the GUI will not let me. | 17:06 |
| furrymcgee | so you can remove with ip | 17:06 |
| john | I try real quick | 17:07 |
| john | nope. need the setting BOOTPROTO=none & ONBOOT=yes This has to happen in config file direct | 17:13 |
| furrymcgee | how does this differ from BOOTPROTO=none & ONBOOT=no ? | 17:28 |
| john | i edit /etc/default/networking - EXCLUDE_INTERFACES=eth0 & /etc/init.d/networking - EXCLUDE_INTERFACES=eth0 | 17:29 |
| john | now i reboot and see if that worked. | 17:29 |
| john | furrymcgee: the original question was; where in /etc is the network settings for eth0. editing /etc/network/interfaces will break NetworkManager which i don't want to do. I can add vlans via ip link add. I need to disable dhcp/static on eth0 | 17:37 |
| john | no joy with exclude_interfaces | 17:38 |
| furrymcgee | try nmcli networking off | 17:41 |
| john | i think "networking off" is not going to keep the vlans "on" | 17:43 |
| john | the vlans are up without problem, the security problem is eth0 itself is still up with dhcp on. i can change it to a manual address, but the problem is still there. want everything via vlans | 17:45 |
| john | i figured i would a devuan group first | 17:47 |
| john | i would try a devuan group first | 17:47 |
| furrymcgee | sorry I dont use it | 17:52 |
| john | found the solution to disable ipv4 and ipv6 of root network adapter (ie: eth0). start menu / preferences / advanced network configuration. | 18:18 |
| mkinitc3po | Anyone having trouble booting server iso 2-4 in UEFI? | 20:59 |
| sadoon_albader[m | He's not here but I thought 2-4 were not bootable? | 21:24 |
| gnarface | i thought there was only 1 server iso... | 21:44 |
| gnarface | assuming they meant the cd or dvd set, yea iirc only the first one of those are bootable and they're not meant to be used individually | 21:45 |
| golinux | gnarface: the server iso is the first of a 4 cd set. Does the description on this page not describe it clearly enough? https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan | 22:10 |
| gnarface | golinux: uh, no i guess not, but i hadn't looked any time recently so i'd forgotten about this page | 22:21 |
| gnarface | golinux: (i've got no particular reason to believe mkinitc3po got to the isos from there either) | 22:22 |
| golinux | That is the page where all the mirrors are listed! | 22:24 |
| golinux | Did you scroll down? | 22:24 |
| golinux | It describes the available isos and where to get them. | 22:25 |
| Kingsy | Hi. just reading ove rthe docs, can someone tell me about how I chose runit rather than sysvinit ? | 22:27 |
| gnarface | "apt-get install runit" | 22:29 |
| Kingsy | oh so you don't get a "installer" that does it in the first place? you always need init first? | 22:30 |
| gnarface | Kingsy: i can't remember if they added that one to the installer yet or not. they added at least one other to the installer | 22:30 |
| Kingsy | gnarface: what wasyour choice? jsut curiousi | 22:31 |
| gnarface | Kingsy: i think they might have. i assumed you were asking because you tried and couldn't find it. if you don't see it there, try it in expert mode and try looking in the "load additional installer components" section | 22:31 |
| Kingsy | thankyou! | 22:32 |
| gnarface | Kingsy: i'm still using sysvinit, it didn't seem problematic to me | 22:32 |
| golinux | Kingsy: Screenshots here https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/install-devuan | 22:32 |
| Kingsy | ah ha!! | 22:33 |
| Kingsy | awesome | 22:33 |
| Kingsy | does the installer support wifi? | 22:33 |
| golinux | #19 is where init choice is | 22:33 |
| gnarface | golinux: i see that the mirrors are all listed there too. i'd just been directing people to files.devuan.org directly, sorry | 22:33 |
| golinux | Probably better to send them to the "official" download page where there is more indo. | 22:34 |
| golinux | info | 22:35 |
| Kingsy | because this laptop doesnt have a ethernet port. | 22:35 |
| Kingsy | so its wifi only | 22:35 |
| gnarface | Kingsy: yes, wifi is supported | 22:35 |
| Kingsy | sweeeet | 22:35 |
| gnarface | the netinstall image and the live image load the non-free wifi firmware that is available, too | 22:36 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure if the server/desktop ones also do that though | 22:36 |
| golinux | It is called "netinstall" for a reason. | 22:36 |
| Kingsy | its alright, I'll just us ethe netinstall iso | 22:36 |
| gnarface | wifi support overall on linux isn't great, you might need a usb ethernet device | 22:36 |
| gnarface | the netinstall image is enough smaller that it's worth a try at least though | 22:36 |
| Kingsy | well it works on other distros without a special driver. | 22:37 |
| Kingsy | so it shold be ok | 22:37 |
| golinux | IIUC the server iso and other cds can be used offline | 22:37 |
| gnarface | should be ok, the i386 and amd64 kernels are the stock debian kernels | 22:37 |
| Kingsy | np cool | 22:37 |
| peterrooney | OK, I accidentally installed firefox-esr-91, and wow what an abomination. trying to revert is proving exceptionally difficult. | 22:37 |
| Kingsy | I am still really annoyed by browsers in general tbh | 22:38 |
| Kingsy | I cant find a decent one. | 22:38 |
| peterrooney | what happed to the firefox devs. fuzzy borders on tabs, and you can't close a tab without switching to it any more. | 22:44 |
| peterrooney | actually, borders fuzzy enough to be indeterminate. | 22:45 |
| gnarface | they might have already pulled the old one from the repos, you might need to resort to the snapshot repos | 22:46 |
| Kingsy | what browsers you guys using? chrome? | 22:54 |
| gnarface | just switching between firefox and firefox-esr still | 22:55 |
| gnarface | but i can't give you good advice on what browser to use | 22:55 |
| Kingsy | yup, its just all bad | 22:55 |
| Kingsy | I cant use firefox anymore I don't like it at all | 22:55 |
| Kingsy | qutebrowser seems alright | 22:55 |
| gnarface | they've all made so many completely blatantly untrustworthy core feature changes that tbh if i needed one to do actually important work at this point i'd have to include the cost of forking one of them in the expenses | 22:56 |
| gnarface | i can't in good faith recommend you use anything more complex than netcat | 22:56 |
| phogg | there are no good browsers any more, you must opt in to which kind of pain you prefer | 22:56 |
| Kingsy | haha! grim | 22:57 |
| DashiePie | phogg speaks the truth, unless you want to make one yourself | 22:57 |
| DashiePie | which is a different kind of pain | 22:57 |
| gnarface | some people around here will claim lynx is secure, and it might be because it doesn't support javascript, css3 or graphics | 22:58 |
| Kingsy | haha yeah. not the best choice when your job is web development | 22:58 |
| gnarface | chromium should work as well as chrome and usually does | 22:59 |
| Kingsy | yeah I find chrome better than FF thats for sure. | 22:59 |
| Kingsy | chromium* | 22:59 |
| Kingsy | so whats the rolling release system like on devuan? I don't think I can go back to versioned OS', how "bleeding edge" is it? | 23:04 |
| gnarface | is there a rolling release edition? i was under the impression we're just tracking debian up to unstable | 23:05 |
| gnarface | i've been told before that there's some important distinction between debian unstable and an actual rolling-release edition | 23:06 |
| phogg | I believe the uninitiated often confuse sid for "rolling release" | 23:06 |
| gnarface | in my experience it's usually within 6 months of upstream | 23:06 |
| phogg | sid looks a lot like a rolling system if you don't look too close, but then you update at the wrong time and things break in hard to fix ways | 23:07 |
| Kingsy | sid yeah, I thought that was "rolling" in that fact that you never had to upgrade from version to version (main OS) | 23:07 |
| phogg | Kingsy: it is possible that one could track sid and get that behavior, but it is not for the faint of heart. Don't attempt it if you think you might ever need help unscrewing broken apt/.deb issues. | 23:08 |
| Kingsy | ah fair enough | 23:08 |
| * phogg used to track sid on a few systems | 23:08 | |
| Kingsy | whats the upgrade process like for the versioned releases? | 23:08 |
| gnarface | the same | 23:09 |
| Kingsy | the same? | 23:09 |
| phogg | apt-get dist-upgrade # wait | 23:09 |
| Kingsy | ah yeah what I mean is | 23:09 |
| Kingsy | is it considered better practice to clean install new OS' versions? | 23:10 |
| phogg | not for Debian, no. | 23:10 |
| Kingsy | or does an upgrade work justas well | 23:10 |
| Kingsy | ah ok | 23:10 |
| phogg | I have some systems I installed with Debian potato (which now run Devuan). No reinstall. | 23:10 |
| Kingsy | thats why I went rolling release. :D | 23:10 |
| Kingsy | good to know | 23:10 |
| phogg | Distributions which don't support solid online upgrade are toys. | 23:11 |
| Kingsy | well ubuntu should but I have had terrible experiences in the past. | 23:11 |
| phogg | Or they're for niche uses (e.g. embedded systems, container distros, etc) | 23:12 |
| phogg | Ubuntu breaks more often than I've seen from Debian or Devuan, and I think the reason is largely to do with PPAs. | 23:12 |
| phogg | that's certainly been the cause for *some* users I've helped out | 23:13 |
| Kingsy | yeah | 23:13 |
| Kingsy | I was going to ask about that tbh. what if I wanted "new" or bleeding edge versions of things? such as nvidia drivers and such? devuan have debs for these? | 23:13 |
| * phogg does not know, just kind of does his own thing | 23:13 | |
| phogg | Select backports from unstable tend to be easy. Not all the time, and definitely not for nvidia drivers. | 23:14 |
| gnarface | ubuntu with ppa's is quite bad, ubuntu without ppa's is similar in stability to debian unstable, but stable-to-stable or oldstable-to-stable is usually very solid | 23:14 |
| phogg | gnarface: I imagine their LTS-to-LTS upgrade is pretty comparable to a Debian experience. | 23:15 |
| gnarface | i say usually because i have had some issues with the switch to systemd | 23:15 |
| * phogg doesn't run Ubuntu any more | 23:15 | |
| Kingsy | well, what nvidia driver version does devuan currently have in latest? | 23:18 |
| Kingsy | ah I see | 23:28 |
| gnarface | pkginfo.devuan.org is helpful for checking that stuff | 23:30 |
| gnarface | 460.* or 470.* iirc | 23:30 |
| Kingsy | 470.86 so its slgitly behind | 23:30 |
| Kingsy | 470.94 is current | 23:30 |
| gnarface | yea though just for the record my experience has been that 100% of the time installing the version newer than unstable breaks something | 23:31 |
| gnarface | it's not always obvious what | 23:31 |
| gnarface | this is specifically about nvidia drivers | 23:31 |
| gnarface | sometimes they even have them in experimental but it's because they're trying to fix them | 23:31 |
| Kingsy | gnarface: curious, does this mean then, you'll be stuck on softwareversions until the next major OS upgrade? | 23:32 |
| gnarface | they still do minor revision updates with stability and security fixes, and eventually someone puts the current major release in backports | 23:32 |
| gnarface | but yea, you're right that the rules for "stable" preclude the types of functionality/compatibility changes that are typically in major version updates, and if you're trying to track external, 3rd party software like commercial game services, eventually those drivers will become a barrier | 23:35 |
| gnarface | and they do effectively collaborate (probably blatantly illegally) to enforce planned obsolesence this way | 23:36 |
| gnarface | obsolescence* | 23:36 |
| gnarface | their competitors aren't so bad in that regard | 23:38 |
| gnarface | but their competitors also haven't bribed anyone for curated compatibility | 23:38 |
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