| gnarface | FilipZ: if you can paste some errors at paste.debian.net i'll take a guess | 00:36 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | FilipZ: i want you to try something first though for me, i think i asked this last time but i don't recall if you actually tested it; with a constant ping to the gateway ip running, move the laptop close to the router and see if that stops the connection drops | 00:38 |
| gnarface | i know that's not gonna be a permanent solution, we're just testing to see if you're having the same problem i was last time i tried it | 00:38 |
| gnarface | *problems* actually, i've isolated 2 of them, and that is only one of them, but i still have no solutions. wires are nicer. | 00:39 |
| av6 | i was thinking about how practical would it be to use ceres, and one big thing that helped me use debian testing is apt-listbugs | 06:33 |
| av6 | it... lists bugs... | 06:33 |
| av6 | for packages that are about to be upgraded | 06:34 |
| av6 | but since in devuan some packages are forked and can have their own bugs somewhere else, will apt-listbugs work for them? | 06:34 |
| av6 | that's my question | 06:34 |
| av6 | if some package breaks in ceres, where would the bug report be? on gitea? and there it won't be picked up by apt-listbugs, right? | 06:36 |
| rrq | bugs.devuan.org | 06:49 |
| rrq | or do you mean during builds? | 06:50 |
| jason1234 | so then, armel is still supported as arch, into Package. nic e that older hardware has still some packages. | 07:10 |
| jason1234 | why you run efi? efi is kinda hell if you want flexibility. | 08:03 |
| sgage | Just a PSA here - a lot of folks seem to think Ceres is testing. | 13:14 |
| sgage | It's not, Daedalus is testing, Ceres is unstable, and tracks sid. | 13:14 |
| sgage | Daedalus has been very solid for me (MATE DE), and gets stuff from Ceres pretty quickly. | 13:15 |
| stian | I asked yesterday about a problem with uefi booting with a new Devuan installation. I got some advice from fsmithred, but was ultimately unable to solve it. | 14:38 |
| stian | It really doesn't make sense. The hard drive has an uefi boot partition that seems just fine. The computer is able to boot via uefi, because the usb drive that I installed from is detected as an uefi unit. So why is the hard drive not detected as a uefi unit? I've reinstalled Devuan several times and reinstalled the bootloader even more times. I even tried to install Ubuntu instead, but with the same result. | 14:38 |
| stian | I'm thinking now that I might just want to work around the problem by having a usb stick that boots /dev/sda | 14:39 |
| stian | Is this something I can do from one of the Devuan images? | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | yes, it will appear as just another hard drive | 14:40 |
| fsmithred | just make sure you know which is which - sometimes the bios and grub don't agree on which disk is first. | 14:40 |
| stian | Great, so how do I edit the grub startup thing and tell it to boot the hard drive instead of the usb? | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | when I want to boot from usb, I usually have to press a key to get a boot device menu, and I select the usb stick | 14:43 |
| fsmithred | but there are other ways | 14:43 |
| fsmithred | you could just put a /boot partition on the usb stick. (not the efi partition) | 14:44 |
| stian | Ah, right, that's not what I'm asking. I can boot from usb, and install Devuan. What I want is that when I finish installing Devuan, I can use the usb in order to continue booting from the hard drive | 14:45 |
| djph | stian: as in having GRUB on the USB instead of on the HDD? | 14:45 |
| stian | exactly | 14:45 |
| fsmithred | if you have a grub on the usb stick and that grub is controlled by a devuan install on the usb stick, then you boot into that system and run update-grub, and it will add any installations on the hard drive to the boot menu | 14:45 |
| djph | suppose you'd have to stick it there (or probably safer, on a secondary USB drive) | 14:46 |
| stian | Ah, yes, that makes sense. Thanks! | 14:46 |
| stian | now I've gotten as far as having a separate usb stick bootable, detected as an uefi device and containing grub. The current problem is that it only gives me a grub shell. grub-install and update-grub did not help. | 16:42 |
| stian | I tried copying over the exact files from the efi partition on the hard drive to the root of the usb stick, but same result. | 16:43 |
| stian | could this be because the grub.cfg file doesn't make sense when it's on a separate drive? | 16:51 |
| stian | this is all it contains: | 16:51 |
| stian | search.fs_uuid e4f53f0f-ae73-405f-b721-cc0353aa57cc root hd0,gpt2 | 16:51 |
| stian | set prefix=($root)'/boot/grub' | 16:51 |
| stian | configfile $prefix/grub.cfgy | 16:51 |
| stian | Or, another idea: Is it possible to tell devuan to use bios instead of uefi when installing? | 16:59 |
| ErRandir | If the disk layout is "dos" and not "gpt" I guess devuan should be forced to use bios mode. | 18:28 |
| stian | Right, I'll try that. Thanks, ErRandir! | 18:42 |
| nemo | huh. TIL systemd does DNS too. | 19:05 |
| nemo | how did I miss that all those years. | 19:05 |
| nemo | (we have 4 ubuntu machines at work) | 19:06 |
| nemo | Also, after adding a bunch of debug, it ignoring the search line in resolve.conf - odd. | 19:07 |
| nemo | and an amusing if minor systemd footgun. if you do systemctl edit you are given a text file for editing an override conf. I did this to add debug to resolved. | 19:37 |
| nemo | once I'd gotten the log spew (including fact that it was ignoring the resolve.conf search line) I tried removing by editing it and deleting what I had written. good thing I was paying attention to the commandline because it said. | 19:37 |
| nemo | "empty file written. ignoring" | 19:37 |
| nemo | I mean. seriously. WTF. | 19:38 |
| nemo | sooo I edited it again and sure enough, my debug overrides were still there. sooo deleted it one more time, and carefully left a carriage return in the file. this was accepted. | 19:38 |
| stian | My boot mystery is finally solved. Changing to bios did not help, but eventually I tried changing the sata mode in the bios from raid to ahci, and suddenly my hard drive was recognised as bootable. | 19:39 |
| stian | Thanks to those who came with advice! | 19:39 |
| Guest14 | does devuan have some sort of firmware-devuan.iso with non-free firmware already included into image? | 20:17 |
| golinux | Guest14: Yes. An "expert" install is required to avoid non-free firmware. | 20:34 |
| nemo | golinux: so that means the default is non-free? | 20:41 |
| nemo | that's both nice of devuan, and sad that's probably absolutely necessary with modern hardware | 20:41 |
| nemo | I think I have exactly one linux install here without magic proprietary blobs ☹ | 20:41 |
| fsmithred | we avoid a lot of help requests by including the non-free firmware | 20:42 |
| fsmithred | the live-isos have it installed and have a script to remove it after installation if you prefer. | 20:42 |
| Guest14 | yeah, I'd like to install packages via wifi. So I just need to download devuan-*-netinstall.iso and it should probably recognizes non-free drivers for my wifi? | 20:43 |
| nemo | hahahahaha | 20:43 |
| nemo | Guest14: wifi is it's own special level of hell, as I keep relearning every time I buy a laptop | 20:44 |
| nemo | Guest14: it depends. if it's an old card, and not esoteric, probably. but as I learned with the new laptop I bought last month, new stuff is all kinds of fun | 20:44 |
| nemo | fsmithred: speaking of that laptop. I think I maybe mentioned I reverted the frankenstein (can one say chimæra 😉) that I had created by pulling in the experimental debian kernel plus the 30 odd packages necessary to build a kernel module, after I realised the github repo I was using supported the chimæra kernel just fine | 20:45 |
| nemo | fsmithred: uuunfortunately, that laptop has completely broken ACPI screen brightness on the chimæra kernel - since that was working fine before, I'm guessing that we'll just have to put up with that until that kernel is available in ceres | 20:46 |
| nemo | debian and its derivatives can become an un-updateable mess pretty quickly if you force-install a ton of gcc/glib stuff from differing versions | 20:47 |
| nemo | (that is, until 5.16 makes it to ceres) | 20:48 |
| nemo | Guest14: aaanyway. back to your issue. do you have an exact card model? | 20:48 |
| Guest14 | nemo Intel Corporation Wireless 3165 | 20:51 |
| nemo | Guest14: oh.. huh. I normally have really good luck with intel cards | 20:54 |
| nemo | Guest14: Relying on my tried and true approach of Ducking for hardware models, I saw this: | 20:55 |
| nemo | https://askubuntu.com/questions/1266523/intel-wireless-3165-doesnt-work | 20:55 |
| nemo | Guest14: they said they had to change how the device is exposed in the BIOS for linux to pick it up properly | 20:56 |
| nemo | maybe that's the issue with your laptop too? | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | firmware-iwlwifi | 20:57 |
| nemo | fsmithred: shouldn't the installer add that stuff automatically? | 20:58 |
| Guest14 | I don't say that it's not working :D Rn i'm running Debian 11 but would like to change the init system. I'm just asking if devuan's images have non-free drivers in it | 20:58 |
| nemo | Guest14: oh. I thought this was a fresh install | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | nemo, yeah, it usually adds it automatically. | 21:02 |
| fsmithred | Guest14, are you going to do a fresh install of devuan, or are you planning to migrate your debian to devuan? | 21:03 |
| Guest14 | fsmithred, fresh install | 21:05 |
| fsmithred | you should be able to do the install over wireless. I've done it with iwlwifi on an old thinkpad. | 21:07 |
| fsmithred | oh, you might possibly run into problems with the wireless password. I've seen it fail because of special characters. No password or all lower case worked when I ran into that. | 21:08 |
| Guest14 | my wifi's password has no alphabet characters in it | 21:10 |
| Guest14 | mb that will save me from troubles ;P | 21:11 |
| fsmithred | let me know how that works | 21:36 |
| nemo | fsmithred: I was forced to remove a ; from my wifi password because too many things were being stupid about it | 22:33 |
| nemo | "invalid password" | 22:33 |
| nemo | not debian, but, yeah | 22:33 |
| Guest26 | hello i have a question about building the iso from source | 22:34 |
| nemo | Guest14: fsmithred's the one to go to then | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | you might be a few minutes early to get a response, but ask anyway | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | yeah, depends on which iso you mean | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | 14? I see 26 | 22:35 |
| Guest26 | the devuan installer iso | 22:35 |
| fsmithred | rrq builds those. Did you see the git repo for it? | 22:35 |
| Guest26 | yes i did | 22:36 |
| Guest26 | when i try to build it it says Makefile:23: *** DISTNAME must be set. Stop. | 22:37 |
| fsmithred | oh, I don't know where that goes | 22:37 |
| Guest26 | do you know any way i can make custom devuan iso's | 22:38 |
| fsmithred | looks like it goes in the makefile | 22:38 |
| fsmithred | Makefile:22:DISTNAME := chimaera | 22:38 |
| fsmithred | but that's a guess based on a quick grep | 22:38 |
| fsmithred | if you want to make live isos, I can tell you at least two ways to do it. | 22:39 |
| Guest26 | ok can i add packages to it? | 22:39 |
| fsmithred | you can make the live isos to be whatever you want | 22:40 |
| Guest26 | ok so how do i it? | 22:40 |
| fsmithred | if you use live-sdk, it builds an iso using a package list. If you use refractasnapshot, it copies the running system to make the iso. | 22:40 |
| fsmithred | so in the latter case, you would have a fresh install exactly how you want it, either on hardware or in a VM> | 22:41 |
| Guest26 | how do i get refractasnapshot | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | apt-get install refractasnapshot-base | 22:41 |
| Guest26 | ok thank you | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | and refractasnapshot-gui if you want clicky. | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | also refractainstaller-base and -gui | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | if you plan to install it | 22:41 |
| fsmithred | or calamares installer (which requires some setup on your part) | 22:42 |
| fsmithred | if you want live-iso with debian installer, talk to the devs of gnuinos, star or crows. | 22:42 |
| fsmithred | (post in the derivatives section of the forum and they will see it.) | 22:43 |
| Guest26 | how do i add the calamares installer | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | apt install calamares calamares-something | 22:43 |
| fsmithred | calamares-settings-debian | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | warning: it pulls in a lot of qt packages. | 22:44 |
| Guest26 | is that all i have to do | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | nope | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | you have to configure stuff in /etc/calamares | 22:44 |
| fsmithred | and I've played with it a little, but I don't really know what all the parts do. | 22:45 |
| Guest26 | are there manpages on this? | 22:45 |
| fsmithred | there's a wiki for calamares | 22:45 |
| Guest26 | ok thank you | 22:46 |
| fsmithred | have you used refractainstaller or calamares in the past? | 22:46 |
| Guest26 | no i haven't | 22:47 |
| fsmithred | here's documentation for refracta tools: https://refracta.org/documents.html | 22:47 |
| fsmithred | what do you want to do with this iso? | 22:47 |
| fsmithred | just your personal use, or you making a derivative distro? | 22:48 |
| brocashelm | we tried to test calamares on devuan/refracta, but kept running into grub problems | 22:49 |
| brocashelm | there was also an issue with encryption | 22:50 |
| Guest26 | just a iso to have with all the packages i need | 22:50 |
| Guest26 | then what about live-sdk do i need too add a installer for that | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | brocashelm, I've done a little more with it, but still some of the same problems. | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | yes | 22:52 |
| fsmithred | aitor (gnuinos dev) can tell you how to include devuan-installer with live-sdk | 22:53 |
| fsmithred | crows and stars guys can tell you how to use debian live-build to make devuan live-isos and include devuan-installer | 22:53 |
| rrq | Guest26: lucky web hit for you: https://earthly.dev/blog/creating-and-hosting-your-own-deb-packages-and-apt-repo/ | 22:56 |
| rrq | esp its "Step 2" | 22:56 |
| Guest26 | i was asking how to make a iso? | 23:00 |
| rrq | you want an installer + your own packages in it? | 23:14 |
| Guest26 | yeah | 23:15 |
| rrq | ate those "yor own packages" some you build yourself, or is it merely your own selection of standard packages? | 23:16 |
| rrq | atr=are | 23:16 |
| rrq | atr=ate=are | 23:16 |
| Guest26 | well not my own like ones i made just a custom list of packges instead of the default ones | 23:17 |
| Guest26 | standard packages | 23:17 |
| rrq | right. | 23:17 |
| rrq | so installer-iso is an option unless you want a "live iso" | 23:18 |
| Guest26 | no i dont need a live iso so thats fine | 23:18 |
| rrq | o. I use "build-sudo.sh" .. and the project is most recently polished to support that way of build (for automation purposes) | 23:19 |
| rrq | you'd need to add a "list file" nto the pool building | 23:19 |
| Guest26 | are you talking about the devuan installer-iso git repo | 23:20 |
| rrq | yes | 23:20 |
| rrq | master branch | 23:20 |
| Guest26 | ok how do i add a list file into the pool | 23:20 |
| rrq | if it's just some few, then add to the "pool/extra" file ... or make a similar file and add its name to the "INSTALLER = ..." line in the pool/Makefile | 23:22 |
| rrq | then any netinstall, server or desktop iso that you build will include those packages and anything they depend on, including first-option choice among undecided alternative dpendencies | 23:25 |
| rrq | (and recommends) | 23:27 |
| Guest26 | so if put a packages list it will grab the dependencies for me | 23:28 |
| rrq | yes | 23:28 |
| rrq | (if your list includes a non-default choice for an alt-dependency of another package, then the default dependency will not be traversed) | 23:29 |
| stian | I'm trying to set up nfs-ganesha. It seems the package in Devuan has systemd scripts but not for sysvinit: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=nfs-ganesha=3.4-1 | 23:58 |
| stian | Is there any straightforward procedure for converting a systemd service file to sysvinit? | 23:58 |
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