| gnarface | well, sometimes you get away with just running the ceres version but usually what happens is you introduce mystery crashes without realizing it | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
| blizzow | Ugh, I just want to run my new devuan host as a qemu hypervisor with libvirt. Is there a good howto out there? I thought I ran across an official page but can't seem to find it anymore. | 00:30 |
| blizzow | I'm running into all kinds of gross problems. polkit missing (had to disable polkit auth in libvirtd.conf), apparmor profiles preventing machines from starting, etc. | 00:31 |
| ejjfunky | hi all. I just installed devuan and i want to add my user to sudo. usermod says command not found | 00:32 |
| ejjfunky | sbin not showing any adduser or usermod either. | 00:32 |
| ejjfunky | it's chimera that i've installed. | 00:32 |
| blizzow | ejjfunky, did you try useradd instead of adduser? | 00:32 |
| ejjfunky | ok, found it. usermod. found it at /usr/sbin. thanks anyway. | 00:33 |
| golinux | Do you have the correct path? | 00:35 |
| golinux | From the Telease Notes: The behaviour of su changed in Devuan 3 Beowulf. These changes persist | 00:35 |
| golinux | in Devuan 4 Chimaera. Use su - to get root's path or use the full path to commands if you use only su. | 00:35 |
| golinux | Release Notes | 00:35 |
| ejjfunky | thanks golinux. i got it added now. | 00:36 |
| golinux | Always read the Release notes . . . | 00:36 |
| ejjfunky | ok. | 00:38 |
| ejjfunky | reading it now. https://personal.cis.strath.ac.uk/conor.mcbride/ | 00:38 |
| ejjfunky | opps | 00:38 |
| ejjfunky | files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/Release_notes.txt | 00:39 |
| gnarface | blizzow: libvirt is extremely low quality, i'd recommend trying qemu without it at least as a debugging measure first | 00:40 |
| blizzow | gnarface, what do you mean it's of extremely low quality? The package maintenance? | 00:41 |
| gnarface | blizzow: no, i meant the project is half assed by half-brained jackasses | 00:41 |
| gnarface | blizzow: but it's not actually a part of qemu and you don't technically need it | 00:42 |
| blizzow | whoa, okay. Well, that could be the case. | 00:42 |
| gnarface | blizzow: at least as a debugging measure you should try to launch your guest just straight from the command-line... unless you have to manage hundreds of guests this is probably gonna be easier in the long run | 00:42 |
| blizzow | I have a few machines I want to deploy as hypervisors, managing them all with a pile of scripts is going to get old. | 00:43 |
| gnarface | blizzow: oh, well i guess a pile of shell scripts is my favorite solution but ymmv | 00:43 |
| blizzow | Libvirt provides a fair bit of glue for other projects like mist.io/proxmox... | 00:43 |
| gnarface | blizzow: i mean, virt-manager is very little more than a pile of shell scripts itself | 00:43 |
| gnarface | blizzow: usually in my experience, figuring out what's wrong with it also comes along with the shocking revelation of how little it's actually doing for you other than screwing up your qemu command-lines | 00:44 |
| ejjfunky | guys, for php, what's the default version? for example, if i do sudo apt install php, what is the current version and how to find out without installing it first? I'm at https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=php&x=submit but havent found im looking for | 00:49 |
| ejjfunky | ok, i got it at: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=php=2:7.4+76 | 00:50 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: i see php7 and php8 both in there | 00:50 |
| ejjfunky | php8? | 00:51 |
| ejjfunky | i see the current version is 7.4 | 00:51 |
| blizzow | Guess I just ended up learning with libvirt and never got into the guts of writing out a long VM on the command line. | 00:51 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: oh, yea you're right. 8 doesn't show up till testing 7 is stable's default | 00:52 |
| gnarface | blizzow: well it might be the command-line or it might be a permissions issue, i don't know in your case, but you can isolate both of those by testing qemu bare on the command-line | 00:53 |
| ejjfunky | gnarface, right, thanks though. | 00:53 |
| gnarface | blizzow: if you can figure it out you can probably fix virt-manager pretty easily really. when you discover it, you might find the indignity outweighs the convenience though, that's all. | 00:56 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: oh, also just fyi on the other thing, i think they took /sbin and /usr/sbin out of root's default path too | 01:00 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: (in addition to now requiring su to no longer treat PATH differently from the rest of the environment variables) | 01:01 |
| ejjfunky | gnarface, yea i figured. it's weird though as to why. | 01:01 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: vandlism. but you can put it back, i think it's just in /etc/profile | 01:01 |
| ejjfunky | oh ok | 01:01 |
| gnarface | heh, sorry i'm so angry at virt-manager | 01:09 |
| gnarface | some of it is personal to me still i guess | 01:09 |
| gnarface | it should probably be clarified, that i don't work on devuan directly, and my views about libvirt/virt-manager don't represent the projects opinion on them as a whole (i assume) and if it's not working it's not because i or any of the devuan devs sandbagged it | 01:16 |
| ejjfunky | for me, i was so angry at systemd, that's why i'm here. lol | 01:16 |
| ejjfunky | but i'd like to know more, gnarface as i'm planning to learn using qemu | 01:17 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: well if you need to provide hypervisor access to qemu vms in some way that can be made vaguely AWS-compatible, there's little else in the way of options as far as open-source stuff | 01:18 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: i didn't, so it was easy for me to pitch overboard in favor of a simple shell script | 01:19 |
| ejjfunky | i like simple | 01:19 |
| ejjfunky | well, if it runs without it fine, i guess you don't need it | 01:20 |
| ejjfunky | i won't be managing lots of vms anyway. for starter, most probably just one | 01:20 |
| gnarface | yea, then it is probably a liability actually | 01:21 |
| gnarface | for just one vm, you just need to learn one qemu command once | 01:21 |
| gnarface | then put it in a 1-line shell script | 01:21 |
| gnarface | you can probably even use virt-manager to figure out parts of the qemu command-line but, as i've gone into already, once you start trying to optimize it you quickly figure out it's doing all kinds of things wrong | 01:23 |
| ejjfunky | im currently running arch linux. i'm planning to use devuan at its base and running arch on top of it. do you think it'll work well? | 01:23 |
| gnarface | it really shouldn't matter which distro is the host or the guest in a linux<->linux situation | 01:23 |
| gnarface | but yea it should be fine, the debian kernels are very stable | 01:24 |
| ejjfunky | i also will be planning to run windows too eventually | 01:24 |
| ejjfunky | oh ok | 01:24 |
| gnarface | the devuan i386 and amd64 kernel packages are the literal same exact ones from debian, they are not rebuilt | 01:25 |
| gnarface | to be clear | 01:25 |
| ejjfunky | ic | 01:26 |
| ejjfunky | gnarface, windows for me is mostly for games. have you ever tried running windows on qemu and playing games? | 01:26 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: yes. it doesn't work. | 01:26 |
| ejjfunky | shucks. i was hoping that'll work. i don't like the dual boot setup i have now | 01:27 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: sorry. world of warcraft doesn't work, unless you have a dedicated graphics card just for the vm. other stuff might work with some performance penalty | 01:27 |
| ejjfunky | ic | 01:27 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: the problem is that opengl acceleration won't work, and some stuff refuses to work in a VM without it due to probably anti-botting measures i assume | 01:27 |
| ejjfunky | dedicated graphic card ... hmm... <- this can be a possibility if it can work | 01:28 |
| ejjfunky | ic | 01:28 |
| gnarface | ejjfunky: if you have a whole second video card and enough juice in the power supply to use it, i've heard that's supposed to work | 01:28 |
| ejjfunky | ic. i'm thinking to build a desktop so i can take a note on this. | 01:29 |
| gnarface | the dedicated guest card may have to be a nvidia card | 01:31 |
| ejjfunky | ic | 01:31 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure about that, double check that, i may have dreamed it or it might just be outdated info | 01:31 |
| ejjfunky | ok, will do | 01:31 |
| ejjfunky | any recommendation which one? | 01:31 |
| gnarface | no, i would recommend you ditch this silly plan and just use wine so you only need AMD cards | 01:32 |
| gnarface | not all games will work but world of warcraft usually does | 01:32 |
| ejjfunky | i tried wine. no go. wine sucks imo. lol | 01:33 |
| gnarface | if you use steam too, between wine and proton you can get most games working with only a minor performance penalty. i agree there are some indignities from time to time you don't have with native support though... | 01:33 |
| ejjfunky | i mean, result is not as good as window | 01:33 |
| ejjfunky | that's why i thought i need to run on windows | 01:33 |
| gnarface | no, with the right hardware you'd have better performance with the dedicated card in the qemu guest, you're right | 01:34 |
| gnarface | i'm just saying that it's a lot better than it used to be, you might want to seriously take a game list and see if it's worth it | 01:34 |
| ejjfunky | yea, you're right. i don't play that much games anyway. it's a nice to have. | 01:35 |
| ejjfunky | but another thing is when doing a cross platform app, it'll be useful if i can test it immediately on windows as well | 01:35 |
| gnarface | with vulkan and proton performance and compatibility is really great across like 80% of games and you get surprise improvements like hyperfast loading times (windows is really inefficient at program startup for whatever reason) | 01:36 |
| ejjfunky | ic. interesting | 01:36 |
| gnarface | although, in that regard it is true for both nvidia and amd cards these days | 01:37 |
| ejjfunky | ic | 01:37 |
| ejjfunky | i usually don't care much on loading though, as long as it runs fine when playing | 01:38 |
| ejjfunky | anyway, nice talking with you, gnarface. gonna take a little break. cya later. | 01:41 |
| gnarface | have a good one | 01:41 |
| ejjfunky | you too. | 01:41 |
| bailey | yo | 09:49 |
| bailey | Does anyone know if there's a build that will run on M1 macbooks? | 09:49 |
| bailey | ...or a way to make one? | 09:49 |
| bailey | (files.devuan.org only has x86 builds, is aarch64 not supported?) | 09:54 |
| bailey | I know there's https://arm-files.devuan.org/ but those seem to be non-generic / tailored for specific systems (mostly RPi) | 09:55 |
| bailey | oooh - there's a #devuan-arm - sorry! | 09:58 |
| buZz | bailey: fyi, M1 doesnt have a GPU thats supported by linux | 13:30 |
| buZz | and seems unlikely it ever will | 13:30 |
| buZz | you can get unaccelerated output though | 13:30 |
| buZz | but dont expect a nice, eh, youtube video watching experience, for instance | 13:30 |
| mdt | hi, what do you think, should i install using uefi or mbr? what are the benefits of uefi? | 16:41 |
| fsmithred | benefits? | 16:44 |
| mdt | advantages? | 16:45 |
| fsmithred | I guess you can have more bootloaders with uefi, and they all go in a vfat partition. | 16:45 |
| mdt | i probably dont need that because i run nothing but one linux system | 16:45 |
| fsmithred | most of the people I know who use uefi do it either because they dual-boot with windows or else their motherboard does a poor job (or none at all) of legacy bios. | 16:46 |
| mdt | ok, that's a clear statement :) thank you | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | I had to use uefi on an old thinkpad to get it to boot from ssd | 16:47 |
| fsmithred | T420 with old bios and multiple physical injuries | 16:47 |
| mdt | i have to reinstall cause i switched to a m2 thingie and after a bios upgrade UEFI is on again so that came to my mind again | 16:48 |
| fsmithred | I'm not sure of the current status, but there may be issues with booting from nvme | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | and might be specific to some motherboards | 16:49 |
| mdt | status of bios/uefi or devuan? | 16:49 |
| fsmithred | grub or bios/uefi | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | I think grub works fine with nvme now | 16:50 |
| fsmithred | but motherboards are a crap shoot when it comes to conforming to standards | 16:51 |
| mdt | indeed... :( its a cheap notbook, such stuff expected, i always get acpi warnings from linux when booting | 16:51 |
| mdt | i assume i need to start with chimaera and upgrade if i want ceres? i'm not up to date with the names ;) | 17:03 |
| mdt | ah, found, so yes, its the current stable.. | 17:05 |
| fsmithred | mdt, there are daedalus testing images | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | isos | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | but upgrade from chimaera works, too. Start with a minimal system so you don't end up installing everything twice. | 17:14 |
| mdt | i struggle over the disk partitioning with LVM, it talks about "partitioning" while that are volumes... and i am unable to adapt sizes, hm.. | 20:48 |
| mdt | and now i'm lost: "volume group name already in use ... lowering the priority for configuration questions will allow you to specify an alternative name", no clue what its talking about :( | 20:54 |
| tk | mdt: UEFI also allows for using secureboot | 23:51 |
| tk | for my job secureboot is a requirement on our laptops | 23:51 |
| tk | mdt: in LVM there are PVs, VGs and volumes | 23:51 |
| tk | a PV can either be an entire disk, or a disk partition (be that GPT, or MBR or something else) | 23:52 |
| tk | so you run pvcreate on all your to-be PVs to make lvm aware of them (I am not sure if it stores some metadata on the PV or not, presumably it does) | 23:53 |
| tk | once you have made LVM aware of a set of PVs, you can put them inside a volume group | 23:54 |
| tk | vgcreate VG-name pv1 pv2 ... | 23:54 |
| tk | now you have a volume group, this volume group can have volumes allocated within it | 23:54 |
| tk | these volumes then show up as block device nodes you can work with like you normally would with /dev/sdxy | 23:54 |
| tk | i.e. you can put LUKS on top of them, you can partition them, you can format them, whatever you want (normally you want to format them with a filesystem or encrypt them) | 23:55 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!