libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2022-02-08

rwpibanja, The first thing with "erase" is your stty driver.  Try "stty -a" to dump all of the tty driver settings.01:42
rwpibanja, Some terminals notably from IBM and HP use BS instead of DEL for the erase character.  It's been a schism since the early days.  But in the end DEL has one the day.01:43
rwpUsually the erase character is more tightly associated with $TERM value.  TERM is just an environment variable.  But those things must be changed together.01:45
rwpibanja, Your report of space not working and needing shift+space for space has me worried your keyboard is having an issue.  Because that seems very odd.01:45
rwpUsually space and shift+space would produce the same character.01:46
gnarfaceit makes me think one of the other characters is stuck down01:46
gnarfacelike capslock or ctrl01:46
rwpPossibly.  That's a good though.01:48
rwpAlso as far as I know "dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuration" will affect the console login on the Linux vt virtual terminals only.01:48
rwpibanja, Are you using the system from the Linux vt consoles?  Or from a graphical X session possibly using XFCE Terminals?  If so then the xfce4-terminal will be in control of the pty / stty driver settings.01:49
* Xenguy finally learned how to do a proper recursive grep today, after years of confusion about it...01:50
Xenguy(the syntax sucks)01:50
rwpCongratulations Xenguy!  You have taken your first step into a larger world.01:50
Xenguyhah01:51
rwpI assume you mean "find . -type f -exec grep pattern {} +" and not "grep -r pattern ."??01:51
XenguyNo, the latter... I could never get it to work as expected (it would skip the recursion)01:51
XenguyI would try, say, grep -r 'foo' *.html01:52
XenguyOr grep -r 'foo' *01:52
rwpBefore "grep -r" there was "rgrep".  Which still exists.01:52
XenguyBut that was just wrong01:52
Xenguy(GNU) grep wants:  grep -r 'foo' --include=*.html01:52
XenguyNo01:52
rwpIt's often useful to use 'echo' to see what is actually being passed to commands.  Try "echo grep -r foo *" and see what the * will expand to.01:53
Xenguy(GNU) grep wants:  grep -r 'foo' . --include=*.html01:53
Xenguyrwp, Nice tip01:53
rwpI consider using * to be dangerous and I suggest always using ./* as a defensive measure.01:53
rwpBecause if you have a file in the current directory starting with a dash then * expands to be that, which is taken as an option.  But ./* would expand to ./-whatever and would not.01:54
rwpEven though grep -r is convenient and shorter to type I rather wish that grep had never included it.  Because that opened the Pandora's box.01:55
rwpWhich you see with the --include=pattern option.01:55
rwpBecause then people wanted ways to include and exclude things.  So then later those were added.01:55
rwpAnd people wanted to avoid hitting (and probably stalling) on pipes.01:55
rwpWhile others wanted it to read from pipes.  The required options were basically the same as required in find.01:56
rwpSo in my opinion I think investing in understanding find and using it is better because then it works for grep and it also works for all other commands too.01:56
Xenguyrwp, The reason I didn't find the proper 'grep -r' solution sooner was because I ditched it for solutions that used 'find', where I got reliable results01:57
XenguyOr rather find + grep01:57
XenguyI also learned today that find's '-H' option is useful for requesting find mention the filename in the search returns01:59
XenguyI also learned that if one is search a git repo, then 'git grep' is faster and easier...01:59
XenguyAnd finally I learned that if one wants to grep an entire git repo history of commits, then there's:  git log -S foobar02:00
XenguySo definitely a 'TIL' day : -)02:00
rwpLet me put this out there for why find has a different syntax than other Unix/BSD/GNU commands: http://doc.cat-v.org/unix/find-history02:01
Xenguyyeah I always found find's syntax pretty wacky02:02
Xenguydmr!02:04
rwpdmr said that the description was consistent with what he knew.  So I say plausible and am going with that until I learn something more authoritative.02:05
rwpfind was written on spec and the way it is was the way the spec was written.02:05
XenguyIt makes some kind of sense02:06
rwpAnyway...  Back on the "grep -r pattern *" thing...  I know you figured it out but for the other lurkers it is only recursive for named arguments.02:07
rwpIt's an FAQ: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/faq/coreutils-faq.html#Why-doesn_0027t-rm-_002dr-_002a_002epattern-recurse-like-it-should_003f02:07
Xenguyrwp, That's funny, I thought the '+' needed to be escaped (like ';'), but perhaps not:  find . -name '*.html' -exec chmod a+r {} +02:13
rwp+ is not a shell metacharacter and does not need to be escaped.  ; is a shell metacharacter and so does.  Either \; or ';' or ";".02:13
rwpWhich is another reason to prefer the {} + form over the {} \; form.02:14
XenguyTIL  : -)02:14
ibanjarwp:04:04
ibanjarwp: "stty -a" solved the problem in a specific terminal... thanks... but I need to figure out what is causing this...04:08
ibanjaI am using lxterminal04:09
sedroskenAny plans to ever implement support for dinit? to me it's like... systemd, but... good? more like the potential of what systemd could have become if the goal wasn't to become another monolith on top of the kernel04:32
golinuxMaybe take it to #off-topic since it's not a support issue?04:35
sedrosken... maybe this ought to have gone to #off-topic yeah04:35
golinux:)04:36
Guest6hello i was doing build-sudo.sh from https://git.devuan.org/devuan/installer-iso and it said intarget:2: command not found: chroo08:16
Guest6chroot*08:16
gnarfaceGuest6: you probably have to install it.  i imagine there may be other stuff too.09:08
gnarfaceGuest6: you might want to install build-essential too if you haven't already09:11
rrqGuest6: with build-sudo.sh the host need to have ome few commands installed, including in particular chroot, debootstrap and rsync. Also, that debootsrap might need a manual patch, if e.g. you want to build for daedalus on a chimaera host09:30
rrqGuest6: with build-sudo.sh the host needs to have some few commands installed, including in particular chroot, debootstrap and rsync. Also, that debootstrap might need a manual patch, if e.g. you want to build for daedalus on a chimaera host.09:31
Guest6how do i install chroot on devuan09:33
gnarfaceapt-get install chroot09:33
gnarfacesame as debian09:33
gnarfaceunless they've removed chroot now...09:34
syconope09:34
Guest6Unable to locate package chroot09:38
rrqI suppose it belongs to the coreutils package09:39
rrqat /usr/sbin/chroot .. possibly you don't have /usr/sbin in your sudo path?09:40
onefangYep, it's in coreutils.09:40
rrqthat is also something needed during the build /sbin and /usr/sbin in your PATH09:41
fluffywolflooks like I might have a devuan apt bug.15:39
fluffywolfpoking at it now15:40
fluffywolflooks like it's not apt.  working through a script now.15:43
fluffywolfyeah, I think it is apt.15:44
fluffywolfaptsources.distro.NoDistroTemplateException: Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/chimaera15:44
fluffywolfadd-apt-repository doesn't work on devuan.15:45
fluffywolfseems to need devuanizing15:46
fluffywolfbbl15:46
fluffywolflooks like it's provided by software-properties-common, which I'm entirely unfamiliar with....  but it's broken on devuan.15:53
rmhello16:07
rmI have a laptop with devuan that's only turned on occassionally, each time I use it, I run an apt-get update + apt-get dist-upgrade16:08
rmand it feels like there are no updates at all (for Beowulf), for months16:08
rmDebian would have multiple packages updated in the same period16:09
rmdo you pass these on?16:09
rmis there a public update log or such, to disprove my impression (about no updates)?16:09
UsLwhat does your source list look like?16:11
rmhttps://dpaste.com/BDNME5HFG16:11
UsLthat looks fine.16:12
UsLas I understand it deb devuan is mostly redirecting it's updates through to debians16:14
UsLso you should get updates..16:14
UsLdid you get the polkit security stuff for example?16:15
UsLI just did an update and found xterm in there:16:19
UsLxterm/now 327-2+deb9u2 amd64 [installed,upgradable to: 327-2+deb9u3]16:19
rmaccording to /var/log/apt/history*, the last update I had was on 27 Dec 202116:21
rmsince then and as of today there are no more updates16:21
rmso not "months", but 1.5 or so16:22
UsLthat's weird. It's long overdue16:22
UsLno errors when fetching updates? All is good?16:24
rmyes16:24
UsLdo a apt auto-clean16:25
UsLand then apt update16:25
UsLthat helped me _one_ time16:25
rmno changes16:25
UsLeither aptitude, apt-get, and apt is complaining? Must be a bug somewhere16:27
UsLI have never experienced apt not updating so my knowledge is poor in that regard. Maybe some vuan would know. They're usually active a bit later16:30
UsLrm: wait, why do you do dist-upgrade and not just upgrade?16:34
rmwhy not?16:35
rmit is the same, just allows it to also replace packages with different ones, if needed16:35
buZzit is not the same16:36
fsmithredit's usually the same if you're running the stable suite16:38
rmapt-get upgrade doesn't find any updates right now either16:43
buZzwait, you're on a old distro ;)16:51
buZzwithout security repos added you wont get anything for that16:51
fsmithredI had a bunch in beowulf three weeks ago, but the last time before that was July, and there were only a few then.16:51
rmbuZz, see my source.list in paste above, I got security enabled16:53
buZzwhy only main btw?16:53
buZzand not non-free and contrib16:54
buZzdont think i own any laptop that i could even get on network with, without non-free :D16:56
buZzsadly16:56
fluffywolfall the spring energy storage devices I've seen used a wide flat coil spring, either that winds from inside to outside like the spring inside a tape measure, or a curved spring, like the tape measure blade itself, between two rollers.19:41
fluffywolfgrr, wrong window19:41
rwprm, Do you have the package unattended-upgrades installed and is that package automatically upgrading your system at boot time before you attempt your manual upgrade?19:43
rwpIf so then at that time you would find nothing to upgrade because it had already just been done.19:43
rwpLook at the /var/log/dpkg.log file to see the history of dpkg package upgrades.  That's the main package utility, which apt calls, so would log more details than the apt log.19:43
rwpUpgrades depend upon what you have installed but I see libnss3 came through security on 2022-01-26 and is likely installed on every system.19:45
rwpLook at "apt-cache policy libnss3" to see what versions and repositories it shows.  I see this on a Beowulf system: https://dpaste.com/H8JQEAJ7N19:46
rmrwp, no I do not have unattended-upgrades19:47
rmsame in /var/log/dpkg.log, the last upgrades were on 2021-12-2719:49
rmlibnss3:amd64  2:3.42.1-1+deb10u319:49
rwpThat is from main and current in main but there is an upgrade you should be getting from security for it taking it to 2:3.42.1-1+deb10u519:50
rmthis is what I get: https://dpaste.com/BEVC93QXQ19:51
rmI guess this might be messing with security,19:51
rmAPT::Default-Release "beowulf";19:51
rwphttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=libnss3&x=submit19:52
rmbut it shouldn't19:52
rmand I did get updates back in December19:52
rwpSo...  Why do you have that set?19:52
rwpTry removing it, then running apt-get update again, then attempting another upgrade.19:53
rmyeah, commenting it out helps19:53
rwpYay!  \o/19:53
rmthanks!19:54
rwpI admit that I have never used Pinning more than very sparingly and so would need to read all of the documentation on it in order to understand it.19:54
rmI typically set that because in Debian I often combine multiple branches19:55
rmbut now I remember that even in Debian I recently updated my setup script to use a less problematic version of it, else it also prevented some updates in Debian too19:55
rmAPT::Default-Release "/^beowulf(|-security|-updates)$/";19:56
rmto this19:56
rmbut it was not applied to this machine until now19:56
rwpWith that is that it will "stick" to a particular repository.  And in this case the main beowulf one.  Which would avoid beowulf-security repostitory.19:57
rwpI disapprove of building Frankenstein systems but...  Happy Hacking! :-)19:57
rwpOne can grep the code name for any particular repository: grep Codename /var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_beowulf-security_InRelease20:00
rwpMaybe this is more useful: grep Codename /var/lib/apt/lists/*_InRelease20:01
rmyeah, but this doesn't break any new ground :p20:24
Guest6somebody said that coreutils pacakge includes the chroot command i have coreutils installed but i dont  have the chroot command21:47
rmGuest6, maybe you try running it as regular user?21:54
rmit only works with sudo or from 'root'21:54
rrqGuest6: you must make sure that root has /sbin and /usr/sbin when sudo-ing to it.21:56
fsmithredtry 'su -' instead of just 'su' to get root21:57
fsmithredand then the sbins will be in root's path21:57
rrqno, he needs root to get that in path when using sudo21:57
fsmithredhuh?21:57
fsmithredsudo should already have the right path21:58
Guest6im doing  su21:58
fsmithredyeah, and since beowulf, there's a change in the behavior of su21:58
fsmithredjust su leaves you with user's PATH21:59
fsmithredsu -21:59
Guest6ok so i need to use sudo?21:59
fsmithredor su -21:59
fsmithredsee the dash after the su?21:59
fsmithredor...21:59
rrqthe script build-sudo.sh is typically run as non-root user, and it does sudo21:59
fsmithredoh22:00
fsmithredlike live-sdk22:00
Guest6whats the dash for?22:00
fsmithredto give you a login shell so you have root's PATH22:00
fsmithredbut it sounds like you need to enable sudo since it's built into the script22:01

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