libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2022-02-14

Guest63hello i made a desktop iso from https://git.devuan.org/devuan/installer-iso when i mount it it says the packages are there but they dont install when i install the iso00:38
rrqGuest63: gratuitous web search result, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify/CD   ..pretty much the same for these Devuan ISOs01:34
rwpI am not sure what it means to "install the iso" and the possibilities make me nervous.06:24
Guest63the link you sent shows me how to add packages not edit the installer06:25
rwpSo...  Just to keep things clear...  Usually one would copy the ISO to either USB or cdrom and then boot the installer from it.  Then use the installer to install a system from nothing.06:27
rwpAnd then after the system is installed one never needs that iso again.  Unless they need a rescue.  Because the installer makes an excellent rescue system too.06:27
rwpAnd then with the running system one installs packages from the running system.  Two choices for sources there.06:28
rwpOne is the network.  That's preferred.  Install packages from the network from then forward.06:28
rwpBut some systems are always offline.  In which case there is the original iso and also additional CD#2 #3 #4 and such with a snapshot of the repository.  Can install from them.  Tediously.06:29
rwpIt's certainly possible to modify the installation iso though.  Mostly people need that for additional drivers or a newer kernel.06:30
Guest63while i made iso from devuan custom isos and when i installl my packages dont install06:49
rwpGuest63, It's always useful to pastebin what you are doing and seeing as a response.  Too many possibilities to guess at what might be happening.07:09
gnarfaceGuest63: is it possible you're forgetting to actually select the packages at install time?07:50
ham5urgI have a laptop with an Intel GPU "00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation WhiskeyLake-U GT2 [UHD Graphics 620] (rev 02)". I played some 4k-movie-mp4 via VLC but the framerate is too low. Can I check if this GPU has an hardware-renderer and if it is used?17:06
charlesHey all, new to Devuan and loving it. Having a problem with loading my printer driver. Deb installer and Apt installer both says needs "lsb 3.2" but when I try to install lsb-base or lsb-release it says it is already the newest version (11). lsb -v returns "bash: lsb: command not found". No lsb libraries in /usr/lib/ either. Sudo apt-get remove lsb says not installed. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance.17:06
sedroskenham5urg make sure you have intel-media-va-driver installed, or the nonfree version if you're okay with that, and VLC should automagically make use of it17:08
sedroskenhmm17:08
sedroskenhang on17:08
sedroskenlet me think... UHD620, WhiskeyLake-U... that's right at the line where I think it might be either-or driver. Maybe also make sure you have i965-va-driver and/or i965-va-driver-shaders (nonfree) just for good measure?17:10
charlesBTW- using chrimera17:10
Tenkawacharles: are you trying to install a vendor supplied printer driver though?17:11
charlesyes17:12
Tenkawawhat model printer is it? you most likely will need to use cups packages and use those drivers in chimaera17:12
charlesepson workforce 63017:13
Tenkawathe ones supplied by the vendor aren't packaged for interoperability17:13
charlesahh!17:13
Tenkawajust a sec.. let me see if that printer is in the cups database17:13
charlesThanks17:13
Tenkawainteresting... fairly low amount of epson printers supported nowadays.. trying a driver test on a box here17:16
Tenkawaoh thats quite an old printer isn't it?17:17
charlesBeen using the printer on LMDE417:17
ham5urgsedrosken, I installed the packages (intel-media-va-driver, intel-media-va-driver-nonfree, i965-va-driver, i965-va-driver-shaders) but had no luck with VLC or other players.17:17
charlesI suppose its old but was working on LMDE4 with no issues17:17
Tenkawacharles: LMDE4 is just a desktop env not a os distro17:18
ham5urgIs there some bash-magic I can check for GPU-decoding in hardware-support?17:18
Tenkawaunless you are talking about a dff lmde417:18
Tenkawaahh mint 417:19
charlesyes, debian 10 but is it lack of systemd?17:19
buZzi -think- you can run debian10 without that redhat tool17:19
Tenkawacharles: and lmde4 is also very old too17:20
Tenkawait emulates buster not bullseye17:20
charlesI see. Darn.17:20
Tenkawachimaera is bullseye17:20
buZzcharles: 'apt remove lsb' doesnt do anything because the packages are called lsb-base and lsb-release17:21
charlesIs lsb not compatible with Devuan chrimeara?17:21
buZzi HIGHLY recommend not removing them17:21
Tenkawathis can still work I think17:21
charlesI tried both- no packages installed17:21
Tenkawafrom what i'm reading.. you probably will need to just need to use ipp protocol17:21
buZzcharles: BULLSHIT17:21
buZzyou said you have them installed17:21
TenkawabuZz: come on... thats a bit harsh17:22
buZz> when I try to install lsb-base or lsb-release it says it is already the newest version (11)17:22
buZzaka already installed17:22
buZzyeah i have low tolerance for lack of attention to detail today , i'll gtfo :P17:22
charles sudo apt-get install lsb-release17:22
charles[sudo] password for charles:17:22
charlesReading package lists... Done17:22
charlesBuilding dependency tree... Done17:22
charlesReading state information... Done17:22
charleslsb-release is already the newest version (11.1.0).17:22
charles0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.17:22
buZz17:22:51 < charles> lsb-release is already the newest version (11.1.0).17:22
buZz^^^^17:23
charles$ lsb -v17:23
charlesbash: lsb: command not found17:23
Tenkawacharles: lsb isn't a command.. its a set of standards17:23
buZzits not a command17:23
charles$ lsb-release -v17:23
charlesbash: lsb-release: command not found17:23
buZz/usr/bin/lsb_release17:23
buZznot lsb-release17:24
buZzlsb_release17:24
Tenkawaits also some docs too17:24
charlessb-base -v17:24
charlesbash: lsb-base: command not found17:24
buZzcharles: ffs17:24
buZza) have you installed cups17:24
buZzb) is it a USB printer17:24
buZzc) have you tried asking cups to detect the printer17:24
Tenkawathats why I think he's going to need to use ipp.. the driver is way too old... I was just looking at it17:25
buZzd) have you installed this:17:25
buZzprinter-driver-escpr/oldstable 1.6.33-1 amd6417:25
buZz  printer driver for Epson Inkjet that use ESC/P-R17:25
buZzwell, not the oldstable version17:25
charlesnetwork printer.17:25
buZzbut printer-driver-escpr is the literal driver for that printer17:26
buZzwhich is in devuan17:26
buZzcharles: install cups, install that driver, let cups detect the network printer, print to your local spooler for that network printer , done17:26
charlesI have to check if I have cups installed17:26
buZzdpkg -l | grep cups17:26
charlesSounds good guys. Thanks for all the help!17:27
buZzfyi, i googled 'epson workforce 630 cups'17:27
buZzit was the literal first hit, to https://www.openprinting.org/driver/epson-escpr/17:27
buZzwhich is that driver17:27
charlesdpkg -l | grep cups17:27
charlesii  cups                                  2.3.3op2-3+deb11u1                 amd64        Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - PPD/driver support, web interface17:27
charlesii  cups-browsed                          1.28.7-1                           amd64        OpenPrinting CUPS Filters - cups-browsed17:27
charlesii  cups-client                           2.3.3op2-3+deb11u1                 amd64        Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - client programs (SysV)17:27
charlesLooks like it is installed. cups17:28
Tenkawayeah its right in apt...17:28
buZzcool, now you can contine yourself :P17:28
buZz'how do i config cups' -> go to http://localhost:631/17:28
charlesThanks Buzz, just what I was missing17:29
charlesYou guys are totally awesome! Many Thanks!17:31
buZz;)17:32
buZzkeep at it :P17:32
buZzcharles: you're printing already?17:32
Tenkawanp.. good luck and keep learning and making the linux world thrive :)17:32
TenkawaI've been using it almost since its existence and haven't looked back17:34
buZzhehe, WinME made me desire back to a OS where the user was in charge (after ~2 years of 95/98/ME , while getting paid to get MCSE for NT3/4)17:36
buZzran WinME for a while with a X server, all programs remote from a linux machine17:37
buZz'so i can alt-tab back to my windows-only programs' , but after just a few days , there wasnt any17:37
TenkawaI run so many os's I can't count. It was my career though... system build integration for unix/windows/os x integration and database across so many different platforms and pieces of software....17:39
Tenkawaalmost 30 years of it as career17:40
buZzyeah i'm just talking about my home setup , as soon as it was an option i just ran 'windows with office and AD integration' in a VM on linux to comply to boss' wishes17:40
TenkawabuZz: I just do it at home too now..17:40
buZzsince i started my own company i can just ignore windows' existance again ;)17:42
Tenkawaheheh17:43
charlesbuzz- no, I had to stop and tend to my wife. I'm back working on it now.17:44
charlesI love linux but now that I'm 68 I forget things like cups. ;_017:45
buZzthe only apple product you should care about ;)17:45
Tenkawahey!!17:45
Tenkawa*as he types from his M1*17:46
Tenkawalol17:46
buZzyeah thats a cool netbook , too bad its not using anything anyone can use17:46
buZzmaybe someday apple will wisen up and just push a foss driver for the gpu or something17:46
buZzas-is its just a walledgarden , like apple made millions of already17:46
Tenkawajoin -offtopic17:47
buZzits pretty -ontopic? dont you want to run a decent OS on it? :P17:47
Tenkawajust didn't want anyone else "relegating" our convo17:47
buZzoh they can take it up with the ops17:48
buZzteehee17:48
TenkawabuZz: do you know who I am?17:48
TenkawaI feel like you should17:49
buZzi dont know many japanese villages, no17:49
TenkawaI use to be on the devuan vid calls a while back before I had recurring medical issues17:49
buZz'vid calls' ? :D17:49
Tenkawamostly for Arm stuff17:50
buZznothing i would know about, no17:50
TenkawaARM is my area of expertise17:50
Tenkawa(nowadays)17:51
djphbuZz: they're like regular calls, except people can see you.  It's gross17:51
buZznice, must be happy that the get-devuan page now finally links to ARM images ;)17:51
Tenkawadjph: especially when they have to see me lol17:51
buZzdjph: i havent voluntary used a phone in over ...20? years17:51
buZzthey arent suitable for communication imho17:52
buZzespecially projectcommunication17:52
buZzpapertrail > *17:52
djphindeed17:52
* Tenkawa is a long hair who is like 25 yrs older than he looks lol17:52
buZz' i told you over the phone! ' isnt a replacement for a papertrail17:52
djphwell, I mean I prefer electronic means over "paper" these days17:52
buZzdjph: right, but written down17:52
djphexactly17:52
buZznot some 90 minute video dump you have to FULLY watch to find that 3 letters of commandline you need17:53
* Tenkawa hasn't voluntarily written much since he was about 1617:53
buZzthen its not likely i know you ;)17:53
* Tenkawa actually was forced to take writing classes amd his writing got worse17:53
* Tenkawa can type 70-80 wpm with one hand17:53
TenkawaAny of you using Devuan x86 on multi-displays by chance?17:54
buZzsure, i have 4 monitors on my desktop here17:58
buZzScreen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 6674 x 1680, maximum 32767 x 3276717:58
buZz  dimensions:    6674x1680 pixels (1766x445 millimeters)17:59
buZznot sure if those mm are correct now17:59
buZzhmm, yeah must be correct17:59
Tenkawadoes the screen to screen transitions work fairly well?17:59
buZzsure, no issues17:59
Tenkawawhat kind of gpu are you using?17:59
buZzwait, transitions? you mean dragging a window over?17:59
buZza GTX106017:59
Tenkawayeah dragging18:00
buZzwith nvidia's proprietary driver18:00
Tenkawasame gpu I'd be using18:00
buZzso heavily accelerated18:00
buZznot nouveau which kinda works but is a ton slower18:00
TenkawaI have an omen sitting beside me18:00
buZzwhat future is it foretelling?18:00
TenkawaI just had to replace a bad battery but I'm trying to determine its "future"18:01
buZzah , some portable device18:01
Tenkawayeah.. high end gaming laptop18:01
buZzahhh, 'voodoo pc' that rings a bell18:02
Tenkawabut I think the battery and a cap went bad18:02
buZzhmhm, gaming laptops in general arent intended to function beyond the warranty18:02
Tenkawaindeed18:03
buZzthey're pretty abysmal wastes of money, imho18:03
Tenkawayeah I got this one for 1/2 off18:03
buZzscreen removed? :D18:03
buZzoh, half off the price18:03
Tenkawano.  just on sale18:03
buZzit was -new-? :D18:03
Tenkawayep18:03
buZzoh, not a recent purchase then i guess18:03
Tenkawano18:03
buZzhehe ait18:04
Tenkawa3 years old18:04
Tenkawa201918:04
buZzjust find your nearest hackerspace, donate your ewaste to them18:04
buZzhehe18:04
Tenkawaewaste is one blocik18:04
Tenkawaer block away18:04
buZzthe netbook i bought in 2007 (eeepc 700surf)  still works :P18:05
Tenkawamy electric company takes all hazardous material (batteries (including lead acid) cfl & other bulbs) etc)18:05
buZzwait, 701 surf, i guess18:05
Tenkawagreat find18:05
buZzTenkawa: i dont suggest recycling, i suggest upcycling :D18:06
TenkawabuZz: noone around here does it18:06
buZzhalf working laptop melted down for metals is not good for environment18:06
buZzhackerspaces do it18:06
Tenkawawe don't have any18:06
buZzthey use whatever tech they can get to do whatever they want18:06
buZzyes you do18:06
buZzwhat region are you in?18:06
TenkawabuZz: trust me.. we don't... the ones we had.. got shutdown by jerks18:07
buZzunless you live in rural africa, its very likely there's a hackerspace near :P18:07
djphthe "nearby" one closed down, now I'dhave to drive like 2 hours(ew)18:07
buZzwelp, bbl, gotta feed my breadmaker some flour18:07
Tenkawaeverything here is so "commercial"18:07
djphmmmmm, bread18:07
buZzdjph: found a breadmaker at a thriftstore for 7.5018:08
djphnoice18:08
buZzthink i ate more bread since i found it than i did in the ~10 years before18:08
djphI usually make 1-2 loaves a week18:08
buZzalso a LOT tastier bread18:08
* Tenkawa doesn't have a breadmaker but has been making a lot of homemade icecream lately18:08
djphbreadmaker to do the dough-making, oven for the actual baking.18:08
buZzi made 3 baquettes yesterday, were all gone when i woke up today :)18:08
buZzmy housemates like it18:09
djphhahahah18:09
djphnow what you need is to put linux on it, and ... something ...18:09
buZzjust ~800gram a pop though18:09
TenkawaI would be in trouble if I had a homemade breadmaker18:09
buZzdjph: yeah i want to 'iot' one of em18:09
buZzneed to get me a second one18:09
buZzat least measure current and temperature, and maybe also 'read the display' and 'operate the buttons'18:10
Tenkawamy wife and I just got a big order of bagels from our local bakery this morning lol18:10
buZzfrozen bagels then?18:10
TenkawabuZz: fortunately the truck woke my wife up so she was able to grab them from outside before they did18:11
Tenkawa(truck was loud)18:11
Tenkawathey dropped them off at the house18:12
buZzah no , i ment, why order a large number of bagels, are you planning to freeze them? are they made with conservation products to keep >2 days?18:12
buZzhere in .nl its illegal for commercial bread to use such products18:12
Tenkawafresh bagels last about a week18:13
buZz> a fresh bagel can harden out in just 48 hours18:13
buZzi guess store em without oxygen ;)18:13
Tenkawaif you don't store them properly18:13
Tenkawaours are stored airtight18:14
buZznice, and vacuum then?18:14
Tenkawapretty much18:14
Tenkawawe are vegetarian so food tends to have lower shelf life in general once its opened if we don't18:15
golinuxThe enforcer here.  Take it to OT guys . . .18:18
golinuxTenkawa: I heard a rumor that you were through with devuan . . .18:18
Tenkawadon't know who told you that:18:19
TenkawaNo LSB modules are available.18:19
TenkawaDistributor ID: Devuan18:19
TenkawaI still have it on multiple arm boxes18:19
WoCDoes the 32 bit edition have PAE ?18:22
WoC( devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso )18:23
fsmithredWoC, the desktop-live has the pad kernel, the minimal-live does not.18:23
fsmithredpae18:24
WoCok, ty18:32
WoCAppreciated18:33
WoCBtw, is there an aarch32/aarch64 version in the works ?18:43
WoCThat would be awesome18:43
TenkawaWoC: join #devuan-arm .. it already exists18:50
buZzWoC: its already on the download page?18:55
buZzWoC: https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan.html 'download locations' behind 'embedded' , halfway down the page18:56
TenkawabuZz: that link really needs to be fixed... its very confusing because you have to dig down to find actual up to date versions18:59
buZzi agree, i commented to xenguy about it18:59
buZzimho it should be top center under ARM19:00
buZznot hidden in a paragraph behind many links19:00
buZzmany ppl to this day still believe devuan doesnt do arm19:00
Tenkawayeah... I know that since the first ones weren't even c0rnelius and my builder they were way out of date19:01
WoCoh, ty19:01
WoCppc64be would be nice too19:03
TenkawaWoC: is there a "public available" board for that architecture thats not in a machine (ie a soc) or are they all in prebuilt machines?19:04
WoCthere's an iso19:06
WoCalong with them pre-built images per board19:06
WoCboard=sbc19:06
WoCi'll just see if I can make a usb-stick from the iso19:07
buZzyeah there's only ppc64el19:07
buZzwhich machine is ppc64be?19:07
buZzxbox360?19:07
Tenkawaahh its a powerpc19:07
WoCBigEndian, such as G519:07
Tenkawaouch19:07
buZzoh yeah :D hahaha19:07
Tenkawathats older19:08
buZzwe have some dual G5 at the hackerspace , they use >1600W19:08
buZzwe never turned em on :)19:08
Tenkawawould be a harder one to build images for19:08
WoCThe PPC970x does not have the little endian mode19:08
buZzthats a 20 year old cpu though19:08
WoCRight, i got two of them19:09
WoCG5 PowerMacs that is19:09
TenkawaWoC: today's kernel would likely have issues with them19:09
buZzlikewise, the itanium from 2002 isnt supported either :P19:09
WoCActually no, works fine19:09
TenkawaWoC: what kernel version?19:09
WoCRight, they really messed up with the scheduler in Itanium19:10
buZzWoC: welp, build a image? :D19:10
WoCjust an iso ;)19:10
buZzyou sound like the most likely ppc expert now :)19:10
WoCheh19:10
WoCTo be honest, what I like the most with Devuan is the option to select SystemV as init ;)19:11
WoCI don't recall which version of the kernel I last ran on my G5's... it's been on the back burner for a while19:12
WoCBut you got to love that WindFarm...19:13
WoCI thought that was pretty loud, until i started up my PowerEdge w/o the door closed19:13
TenkawaWoC: that's exactly my point.. if you haven't used any of the new branches in the last 2-3 years they have dramaticly changed/dropped support for some of that older hardware19:13
Tenkawathe kernel is going  through massive changes right now19:14
WoCRight, i wouldn't mind some nVidia drivers for ppc64be though ;P19:14
WoCnot nouv*19:14
Tenkawano.. I mean as in architectures like those being dropped...19:15
Tenkawaolder architectures19:15
WoCRight19:15
WoCi guess some of the vax etc19:15
WoCparisc too probably19:16
TenkawaIt was a sad day for me long ago when parisc *lol*19:16
Tenkawahahaa19:16
Tenkawajinx19:16
Tenkawathats too funny19:16
WoCI used to have a HP 9000/E4519:16
buZzmaybe a i386 version would be fun aswell19:16
buZz:P19:16
Tenkawaparisc is gone19:16
WoCWell it was a file server, three raid systems19:17
WoCHP-UX 10.2019:17
WoCJust enough to make the fuse box in my apartment shimmer in red19:17
Tenkawayeah I was a HP-UX 11 admin last19:17
WoCSomehow i never had a fire though19:18
Tenkawayeah HP hardware was scary19:18
WoC:)19:18
WoCI loved that you could boot from a tape19:18
WoCI used that a number of times when I re-arranged the raids19:19
WoCi even had gnu on it19:19
golinuxThis is wandering  to OT banter guys . . .Please do your chest thumping there19:19
WoC;]19:20
WoCSorry, nostalgia trip not planned...19:20
buZztldr; there is devuan for ppc64el, arm64, armel and armhf19:24
buZzand a couple of those boring x86 ones19:24
golinuxYeah . . . it's exciting to find new friends but this is a support channel . .19:24
buZzone of these days i wanna finally get a devuan working properly on my ancient chromebook19:25
WoCarm7 ?19:27
buZzyeah , exynos 5800 , 8core19:27
buZz4gb ddr3 iirc19:27
buZzsamsung xe503c32 , weirdly still kinda pricey used19:28
WoCARMv7-A32 (32 bit)19:29
buZzyeah lol, as if there was a 64bit armv7 ever :D19:30
buZzwho writes such line with a straight face :D19:30
WoCThat be Arm819:30
buZz'80386 32bit edition'19:30
buZz:D19:30
WoCBut the micro controller version of the 386 would be fun to play with19:31
WoCi forgot what it was called though19:31
buZzthe radiation hardened ones?19:31
WoCMy memory fails me on that19:32
buZzthe ones that are in so many satellites19:32
gordonDrogonSpeaking of Devian ARM... RISC-V ?19:32
buZzincl hubble up till recently?19:32
WoCSounds plausible19:32
buZzgordonDrogon: i bet it'll be 'hw donations welcome' for a while :P19:32
golinuxAnd what does this have to do with devuan support?19:33
buZzrisc-v support? well, it'll be coming?19:33
gordonDrogonhope so.19:33
buZzme too19:33
WoCI second that ;)19:33
golinuxSurrpot is for grub is broken in the here and now.19:33
golinuxSypport19:33
gordonDrogonlilo is still a thing...19:34
golinuxGood grief . . .support19:34
buZzait, well, for ARM devuan doesnt use grub either, afaik19:34
buZz-probably- uBoot19:34
WoCI use Tow-Boot, not an issue ;)19:34
golinuxIf you have a support problem please post here.  Otherwise take it to OT guys . . .19:34
WoC[; sorry19:35
WoCI keep derailing19:35
golinuxbuZz should know better . . .19:35
WoCor for arm* #devuan-arm19:36
golinuxWe shouldn't have to log all this nonsense19:36
golinuxYeah . . . good idea to go there too19:36
WoCMaybe  #Devuan-RISC-V too ?19:38
bb|hcbbuZz: I have an arm board that boots Devuan with grub/efi; btw. the current Devuan aarch64 iso does not support EFI20:06
Tenkawayeah the only one I know that does is ubuntu.. I think we'd have to redo our hooks20:09
TenkawaLet me ask c0rnelius20:09
bb|hcbNot only, Debian aarch64 iso also supports EFI20:11
Tenkawabb|hcb: only on certain images20:12
TenkawaI'm talking specificly about devuan (that uses our builder)20:12
bb|hcbhttp://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera_4.0_arm64_pool1.iso this one?20:14
bb|hcbMaybe _pool1 should suggest it is not bootable...20:15
Tenkawathose aren't ours20:15
Tenkawalet me ask20:16
fsmithredbootable isos for arm are on pkgmaster in the installer tree20:17
fsmithredmini.iso with the installer in it20:17
fsmithredI've used the one for ppc64le20:17
fsmithredit installs devuan20:17
fsmithred(in qemu)20:17
WoCfrom what I have seen, most distros are using grub for the EFI on aarch6420:18
TenkawaI think something mentioned to me was right too... ubuntu has even stopped using u-boot after focal20:18
TenkawaWoC: no.. most aren't20:19
WoCwell, those I have seen20:19
Tenkawarpi aren't.. alpine isn't....nothing debian "I've" seen is20:19
Tenkawawhat have you seen is?20:19
WoCopensuse20:20
Tenkawaopensuse is one of the smallest used arm distros20:20
WoChmmm, some more but i can't recall20:20
WoCright... pmOS20:21
Tenkawaalso next to non-existant used20:21
buZzthere's a devuan based OS for phones :)20:21
buZzits maemo-leste !20:21
buZzthey're reviving old nokia foss on top of devuan, its really cool stuff20:22
TenkawaMaemo/Devuan would be awesome20:22
buZzTenkawa: this exists today20:22
buZzfor n900/droid4/droid3/coupleothers20:22
buZzpinephone20:22
TenkawaI still  have my N80020:22
Tenkawalol20:22
buZzhttps://leste.maemo.org/Main_Page20:22
buZzhehe me too, but got it many years later ;)20:22
WoCi'm still hoping to install gnu/linux on my old Pixel 4 XL Coral20:23
WoCMaybe one day...20:23
buZzWoC: do you have a booting kernel?20:23
buZzoh, lineage does, you might be able to just get that working with devuan20:23
WoCnope... someone built a whole set but didn't save it20:24
WoChate to replace android for another android20:24
sedroskenno he's saying you might be able to get the kernel meant for lineage to work with the devuan userland20:25
WoCoh20:25
sedroskensince, yknow, by and large, linux is linux20:25
WoCright, but android is special...20:25
sedroskennot at the kernel level20:26
sedroskennot exceptionally so, anyway. Not in a show-stopping way20:26
WoCit is, with all the android specifics20:26
Tenkawadarn won't run on the  n800... only the n90020:26
bb|hcbfsmithred: Thanks for the info, I have missed that somehow...20:27
WoCjust a partition table is tricky enough20:27
WoCcan you upgrade from within beowulf to chimera ?20:47
Tenkawayeah20:47
WoCdo-release-upgrade ?20:48
fsmithredsed -i 's/beowulf/chimaera/g' /etc/apt/sources.list20:48
Tenkawahttps://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/upgrade-to-chimaera20:48
fsmithredapt update && apt dist-upgrade20:48
WoCah ok20:48
fsmithredyou might want to do apt updgrade before the dist-upgrade20:48
WoCright20:49
Tenkawaagreed... "always" upgrade before dist-upgrade20:49
WoC;]20:49
TenkawaI've been burnt by a bad pkging bug20:49
WoCheh, haven't we all, or most20:49
Tenkawaonly once or twice in 20 years but why take the chance20:49
WoCindeed20:50
buZzdoes migrating from debian 11 to devuan chimaera still work? :P20:53
fsmithredsometimes20:53
fsmithredwe had to modify the guides recently20:54
buZzi found a 'untested' image of debian 11 that 'should' work on my chromebook :) mirroring the ssd now to try in a bit20:54
fsmithredand there are a couple of scripts that will do it20:54
bb|hcbYes, but there are caveats... Yesterday I did that for 8 VMs, can share how it went20:54
buZzi'll have a near virgin install20:54
fsmithredthat helps20:54
buZz> This document describes how to remove D-Bus from Devuan20:55
fsmithredbb|hcb, servers?20:55
buZzzomg <320:55
fsmithreddbus? Pin that sucker to -1 right from the start.20:55
bb|hcbYep, servers20:55
buZzah well, there's https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/bullseye-to-chimaera.html20:55
buZznice :)20:55
fsmithredI was gonna say that server upgrades are easier than desktops, but now I want to hear the truth.20:56
bb|hcbAlso Debian 11 is usrmerged, so the resulting Devuan after the convert will be too. I haven't tried to unmerge it20:56
buZzah > the /{bin,sbin,lib}/ directories becoming symbolic links to /usr/{bin,sbin,lib}/.20:56
WoCthem symlinks seems to be one of the major mistakes that infects many distros20:58
bb|hcbExactly. Also one of my laptops is like that and I haven't seen a problem. But if you build a package on a usrmerged system, the result may not work on non-usrmerged ones20:58
fsmithredyikes20:58
bb|hcbUnless you build in pbuilder/sbuild chroot, ofc20:58
fsmithredso we will have a lot more forked packages?20:59
buZz> Instead of moving more tools to /, we today already require /usr to be mounted from inside the initramfs, to be available before the real 'init' starts. The split of the root filesystem and /usr serves no purpose in Linux anymore and only complicates or prevents simple and more flexible setups.20:59
buZz(from fedora)20:59
fsmithredreally, we should do away with all subdirectories and put everything in /21:00
fsmithredthat way everything will be easier to find21:00
bb|hcbfsmithred: In case Devuan decides to stay un-usrmerged, one way is to rebuild everything (like Ubuntu)21:01
fsmithredwe need 100 people for that21:02
bb|hcbbuZz: usrmerge makes it impossible to have /usr on a separate device, unless there is initrd and the tooling+drivers to mount it21:02
bb|hcbfsmithred: no, automated w/o changing anything; with bookworm Debian will start building packages in a usrmerged chroot21:03
fsmithredoh, ok. not so bad, then.21:03
fsmithred(not a deal-breaker)21:04
bb|hcbAnd at least some of those will not be suitable (only the binaries, the source is unchanged)21:04
buZzwait, they want /lib/modules to be /usr/lib/modules aswell, ehr21:04
WoCand firmware21:04
buZzah, ofcourse it originates from 'him'21:05
bb|hcb"lib -> usr/lib" (symlink), so see above about initrd21:06
buZzthe guy that thought rm -rf . should also recursively delete .. 'because its in the directory aswell!'21:06
bb|hcbPersonally I do not see any benefit from usrmerge; only problems (incompatible packages) and less freedom, e.g. can't run without initrd and /usr on another drive21:09
ibanjarwp: You helped me with a backspace issue last week. Your "stty -a" command helped locate the problem. I have since noticed that qtermianl shows erase = ^H and lxterminal has erase = ^?.  I didn't realize I have qterminal running. I stopped all qterminals and switched to lxterminal and all backspace problems are gone. The space issue seems to have cleared up too.21:10
buZzi see one argument for its adoption , its to make .rpm building easier21:10
buZzhavent found another, beside some weird ro /usr for internetcafes or something?21:11
ElPresidentei've noticed that openrc scripts look really similar to sysv scripts.  are openrc scripts backwards compatible with sysv-init scripts?21:11
rwpibanja, Cool!21:11
bb|hcbAlso in the transition period (think: bullseye / chimaera), dpkg doesn't know which is where, because packages are built on non-merged chroot and installed on a merged system, so dpkg thinks that mount is /sbin/mount but it is actually in /usr/sbin/mount21:12
rwpibanja, Years ago there was a split in real actual terminal vendors in what should be the erase key.  It's was a problem when both were active.  But pretty much DEL has won that war.21:12
rwpI have no idea why qterminal would decide to choose ^H for the erase character today in 2022.  That seems really strange to me now.  Blasting us back to 1990 on an IBM terminal or something.21:14
ibanjaIt does sound strange.21:14
rwpbb|hcb, I agree.  No real benefit from the UsrMerge.  It's just change for the sake of change.21:15
ibanjaqterminal was running because the alternives was set to qterminal... I was playing with lxqt for a few days21:15
buZzhttps://github.com/lxqt/qterminal/issues/770#issuecomment-74844488921:15
WoCat least you don't lose the 180+ char command line when you by accident use back-space21:15
buZzfrom dev > ^H for Backspace and ^? for Ctrl+Backspace is what I got from xterm 362. Also, ncurses considers as ^H as the backspace key for xterm [1][2].21:15
buZzwtf is ctrl+backspace :D21:16
WoCto kill x21:16
buZzctrl+alt+backspace, yeah, ctrl+backspace isnt21:16
rwpibanja, from buZz ^^ https://github.com/lxqt/qterminal/issues/770#issuecomment-74844488921:16
WoCalt+control+backspace21:17
rwpZap!21:17
rwpDon't do it!  Drops X.21:17
buZz:)21:17
buZzi think xorg removed that default a while ago21:17
rwpIf configured since it is disabled now by default everywhere.21:17
ibanjajust read the read the link... so it makes sense then that I was having issues21:17
WoCalmost as fun as hitting break on a serial terminal hooked up to a hp ;)21:17
rwpUbuntu removed it because it became a prank thing that kids would tell their friends to do to prank them.21:17
buZzWoC: if you see a unguarded chromebook, try 'refresh' + 'power' on the keyb, should be insta-powercycle :P21:17
WoC;)21:18
buZzrwp: ooo, like 'press alt+f4 in game to gain 10 lives!'21:18
ibanjaI think the install process gives an option to include the at+control+backspace as the x killer21:18
WoClol21:18
rwpNote that I always enable it.  "setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp ..." plus other options.21:18
buZzibanja: the devuan installer?21:18
ibanjabuZz: yes, the devuan installer21:19
WoChitting break on a serial terminal hooked up to a hp (and i think sun) drops you to firmware21:19
buZzhavent seen it in a while , should revisit :)21:19
bb|hcbThere is a better key-combo: Alt-SysRq-B (save your work before you dare try)21:20
rwpMeanwhile...  I am still trying to understand qterminal.  Why are they defaulting to ^H these days?  Do they set a different TERM setting?21:20
buZzthey seem to be under impression that its the better option21:20
buZzand that just the terminal programs are at fault, because ncurses gets it21:20
rwpWhen working with papertape it is important to have both BS (backspace) and DEL (delete) available.21:22
rwpSo one can backspace to the chars they want to overwrite with DEL chars to delete them.21:22
rwpBut if someone is actually working with papertape today then... Let me share in the fun too!  How can I join in? :-)21:22
WoCheh21:25
rwpRegarding Zap! IIRC Ubuntu was the first to disable it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgCtrlAltBackspace and also https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1051021:27
rwpOh, here we go, from 2007: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/9525821:28
WoCAlthough, speaking of, they also has the best sysv compatibility of all systemd distros21:30
WoCalthough it doesn't work as good as init 3 && init 521:31
ElPresidenterwp: kids running Linux?21:39
rwpMostly in university environments for programming classes.21:39
ElPresidenterwp: that would make sense.  i need a coffee21:39
rwpSo sorry that I am referring to twenty year olds as kids.  My bad.  It's inevitable.21:40
ElPresidenterwp: i'm 23 and i feel like a pensioner remembering using slackware when all the kids these days get ubuntu.21:40
rwpBut I was referring to the maturity level of people who would prank each other that way not their physical age.21:40
rwpElPresidente then you and I can unite in yelling at them to get off our lawn! :-)21:41
Akuli:DDDD21:45
ElPresidenterwp: i just found out that the distro i used to use, slax, isn't even based off slackware anymore.  nothing is sacred anymore.21:46
rwpibanja, Before leaving that issue entirely I should mention that one can put "stty erase ..." setting it to either ^H or ^? as needed.  Better if in a case $QTERMINAL_SOMETHING so that if in a qterminal then one gets the qterminal setting and otherwise one gets the other setting.21:49
rwpThat was often seen in .bashrc files when people were needing to switch between HP & IBM and DEC terminals, back in the day.21:49
Tenkawarwp: we use to have it as as interactive "press your backspace key to continue" if it was a ui login21:52
Tenkawathat way it would set everytime21:52
Tenkawaand not have to "think" lol21:52
golinuxGood grief . . . rwp had the good sense to move the conversation to where it belows. Please follow21:54
golinuxto #off-topic21:54
ibanjarwp: OK, thanks... good to remember.21:58
Tenkawagolinux: what I just posted was referencing was also in reference to ibanja's topic as well so drop it!''=22:00
golinuxTenkawa: If it was meant for someone then why didn't you call him by his nick?  Just curious . . . I thought that was the way irc worked . . .22:12
Tenkawabecause not all of use have to do everything exactly one certain way. Stop complaining to me unless its about Devuan22:14
Tenkawatalk on topic22:14
Tenkawafollow your own lead22:14
Tenkawaor let us be22:14
onefang600 messages since I went to sleep, and lots of it off topic.  Anything important I should know about?  I'll skip reading it all.23:47
golinuxonefang: Yeah . . . we need to get a handle on Tenkawa. He is often out of control on this channel and refuses to take it where it be;longs23:57

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