Guest63 | hello i made a desktop iso from https://git.devuan.org/devuan/installer-iso when i mount it it says the packages are there but they dont install when i install the iso | 00:38 |
---|---|---|
rrq | Guest63: gratuitous web search result, https://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Modify/CD ..pretty much the same for these Devuan ISOs | 01:34 |
rwp | I am not sure what it means to "install the iso" and the possibilities make me nervous. | 06:24 |
Guest63 | the link you sent shows me how to add packages not edit the installer | 06:25 |
rwp | So... Just to keep things clear... Usually one would copy the ISO to either USB or cdrom and then boot the installer from it. Then use the installer to install a system from nothing. | 06:27 |
rwp | And then after the system is installed one never needs that iso again. Unless they need a rescue. Because the installer makes an excellent rescue system too. | 06:27 |
rwp | And then with the running system one installs packages from the running system. Two choices for sources there. | 06:28 |
rwp | One is the network. That's preferred. Install packages from the network from then forward. | 06:28 |
rwp | But some systems are always offline. In which case there is the original iso and also additional CD#2 #3 #4 and such with a snapshot of the repository. Can install from them. Tediously. | 06:29 |
rwp | It's certainly possible to modify the installation iso though. Mostly people need that for additional drivers or a newer kernel. | 06:30 |
Guest63 | while i made iso from devuan custom isos and when i installl my packages dont install | 06:49 |
rwp | Guest63, It's always useful to pastebin what you are doing and seeing as a response. Too many possibilities to guess at what might be happening. | 07:09 |
gnarface | Guest63: is it possible you're forgetting to actually select the packages at install time? | 07:50 |
ham5urg | I have a laptop with an Intel GPU "00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation WhiskeyLake-U GT2 [UHD Graphics 620] (rev 02)". I played some 4k-movie-mp4 via VLC but the framerate is too low. Can I check if this GPU has an hardware-renderer and if it is used? | 17:06 |
charles | Hey all, new to Devuan and loving it. Having a problem with loading my printer driver. Deb installer and Apt installer both says needs "lsb 3.2" but when I try to install lsb-base or lsb-release it says it is already the newest version (11). lsb -v returns "bash: lsb: command not found". No lsb libraries in /usr/lib/ either. Sudo apt-get remove lsb says not installed. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance. | 17:06 |
sedrosken | ham5urg make sure you have intel-media-va-driver installed, or the nonfree version if you're okay with that, and VLC should automagically make use of it | 17:08 |
sedrosken | hmm | 17:08 |
sedrosken | hang on | 17:08 |
sedrosken | let me think... UHD620, WhiskeyLake-U... that's right at the line where I think it might be either-or driver. Maybe also make sure you have i965-va-driver and/or i965-va-driver-shaders (nonfree) just for good measure? | 17:10 |
charles | BTW- using chrimera | 17:10 |
Tenkawa | charles: are you trying to install a vendor supplied printer driver though? | 17:11 |
charles | yes | 17:12 |
Tenkawa | what model printer is it? you most likely will need to use cups packages and use those drivers in chimaera | 17:12 |
charles | epson workforce 630 | 17:13 |
Tenkawa | the ones supplied by the vendor aren't packaged for interoperability | 17:13 |
charles | ahh! | 17:13 |
Tenkawa | just a sec.. let me see if that printer is in the cups database | 17:13 |
charles | Thanks | 17:13 |
Tenkawa | interesting... fairly low amount of epson printers supported nowadays.. trying a driver test on a box here | 17:16 |
Tenkawa | oh thats quite an old printer isn't it? | 17:17 |
charles | Been using the printer on LMDE4 | 17:17 |
ham5urg | sedrosken, I installed the packages (intel-media-va-driver, intel-media-va-driver-nonfree, i965-va-driver, i965-va-driver-shaders) but had no luck with VLC or other players. | 17:17 |
charles | I suppose its old but was working on LMDE4 with no issues | 17:17 |
Tenkawa | charles: LMDE4 is just a desktop env not a os distro | 17:18 |
ham5urg | Is there some bash-magic I can check for GPU-decoding in hardware-support? | 17:18 |
Tenkawa | unless you are talking about a dff lmde4 | 17:18 |
Tenkawa | ahh mint 4 | 17:19 |
charles | yes, debian 10 but is it lack of systemd? | 17:19 |
buZz | i -think- you can run debian10 without that redhat tool | 17:19 |
Tenkawa | charles: and lmde4 is also very old too | 17:20 |
Tenkawa | it emulates buster not bullseye | 17:20 |
charles | I see. Darn. | 17:20 |
Tenkawa | chimaera is bullseye | 17:20 |
buZz | charles: 'apt remove lsb' doesnt do anything because the packages are called lsb-base and lsb-release | 17:21 |
charles | Is lsb not compatible with Devuan chrimeara? | 17:21 |
buZz | i HIGHLY recommend not removing them | 17:21 |
Tenkawa | this can still work I think | 17:21 |
charles | I tried both- no packages installed | 17:21 |
Tenkawa | from what i'm reading.. you probably will need to just need to use ipp protocol | 17:21 |
buZz | charles: BULLSHIT | 17:21 |
buZz | you said you have them installed | 17:21 |
Tenkawa | buZz: come on... thats a bit harsh | 17:22 |
buZz | > when I try to install lsb-base or lsb-release it says it is already the newest version (11) | 17:22 |
buZz | aka already installed | 17:22 |
buZz | yeah i have low tolerance for lack of attention to detail today , i'll gtfo :P | 17:22 |
charles | sudo apt-get install lsb-release | 17:22 |
charles | [sudo] password for charles: | 17:22 |
charles | Reading package lists... Done | 17:22 |
charles | Building dependency tree... Done | 17:22 |
charles | Reading state information... Done | 17:22 |
charles | lsb-release is already the newest version (11.1.0). | 17:22 |
charles | 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. | 17:22 |
buZz | 17:22:51 < charles> lsb-release is already the newest version (11.1.0). | 17:22 |
buZz | ^^^^ | 17:23 |
charles | $ lsb -v | 17:23 |
charles | bash: lsb: command not found | 17:23 |
Tenkawa | charles: lsb isn't a command.. its a set of standards | 17:23 |
buZz | its not a command | 17:23 |
charles | $ lsb-release -v | 17:23 |
charles | bash: lsb-release: command not found | 17:23 |
buZz | /usr/bin/lsb_release | 17:23 |
buZz | not lsb-release | 17:24 |
buZz | lsb_release | 17:24 |
Tenkawa | its also some docs too | 17:24 |
charles | sb-base -v | 17:24 |
charles | bash: lsb-base: command not found | 17:24 |
buZz | charles: ffs | 17:24 |
buZz | a) have you installed cups | 17:24 |
buZz | b) is it a USB printer | 17:24 |
buZz | c) have you tried asking cups to detect the printer | 17:24 |
Tenkawa | thats why I think he's going to need to use ipp.. the driver is way too old... I was just looking at it | 17:25 |
buZz | d) have you installed this: | 17:25 |
buZz | printer-driver-escpr/oldstable 1.6.33-1 amd64 | 17:25 |
buZz | printer driver for Epson Inkjet that use ESC/P-R | 17:25 |
buZz | well, not the oldstable version | 17:25 |
charles | network printer. | 17:25 |
buZz | but printer-driver-escpr is the literal driver for that printer | 17:26 |
buZz | which is in devuan | 17:26 |
buZz | charles: install cups, install that driver, let cups detect the network printer, print to your local spooler for that network printer , done | 17:26 |
charles | I have to check if I have cups installed | 17:26 |
buZz | dpkg -l | grep cups | 17:26 |
charles | Sounds good guys. Thanks for all the help! | 17:27 |
buZz | fyi, i googled 'epson workforce 630 cups' | 17:27 |
buZz | it was the literal first hit, to https://www.openprinting.org/driver/epson-escpr/ | 17:27 |
buZz | which is that driver | 17:27 |
charles | dpkg -l | grep cups | 17:27 |
charles | ii cups 2.3.3op2-3+deb11u1 amd64 Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - PPD/driver support, web interface | 17:27 |
charles | ii cups-browsed 1.28.7-1 amd64 OpenPrinting CUPS Filters - cups-browsed | 17:27 |
charles | ii cups-client 2.3.3op2-3+deb11u1 amd64 Common UNIX Printing System(tm) - client programs (SysV) | 17:27 |
charles | Looks like it is installed. cups | 17:28 |
Tenkawa | yeah its right in apt... | 17:28 |
buZz | cool, now you can contine yourself :P | 17:28 |
buZz | 'how do i config cups' -> go to http://localhost:631/ | 17:28 |
charles | Thanks Buzz, just what I was missing | 17:29 |
charles | You guys are totally awesome! Many Thanks! | 17:31 |
buZz | ;) | 17:32 |
buZz | keep at it :P | 17:32 |
buZz | charles: you're printing already? | 17:32 |
Tenkawa | np.. good luck and keep learning and making the linux world thrive :) | 17:32 |
Tenkawa | I've been using it almost since its existence and haven't looked back | 17:34 |
buZz | hehe, WinME made me desire back to a OS where the user was in charge (after ~2 years of 95/98/ME , while getting paid to get MCSE for NT3/4) | 17:36 |
buZz | ran WinME for a while with a X server, all programs remote from a linux machine | 17:37 |
buZz | 'so i can alt-tab back to my windows-only programs' , but after just a few days , there wasnt any | 17:37 |
Tenkawa | I run so many os's I can't count. It was my career though... system build integration for unix/windows/os x integration and database across so many different platforms and pieces of software.... | 17:39 |
Tenkawa | almost 30 years of it as career | 17:40 |
buZz | yeah i'm just talking about my home setup , as soon as it was an option i just ran 'windows with office and AD integration' in a VM on linux to comply to boss' wishes | 17:40 |
Tenkawa | buZz: I just do it at home too now.. | 17:40 |
buZz | since i started my own company i can just ignore windows' existance again ;) | 17:42 |
Tenkawa | heheh | 17:43 |
charles | buzz- no, I had to stop and tend to my wife. I'm back working on it now. | 17:44 |
charles | I love linux but now that I'm 68 I forget things like cups. ;_0 | 17:45 |
buZz | the only apple product you should care about ;) | 17:45 |
Tenkawa | hey!! | 17:45 |
Tenkawa | *as he types from his M1* | 17:46 |
Tenkawa | lol | 17:46 |
buZz | yeah thats a cool netbook , too bad its not using anything anyone can use | 17:46 |
buZz | maybe someday apple will wisen up and just push a foss driver for the gpu or something | 17:46 |
buZz | as-is its just a walledgarden , like apple made millions of already | 17:46 |
Tenkawa | join -offtopic | 17:47 |
buZz | its pretty -ontopic? dont you want to run a decent OS on it? :P | 17:47 |
Tenkawa | just didn't want anyone else "relegating" our convo | 17:47 |
buZz | oh they can take it up with the ops | 17:48 |
buZz | teehee | 17:48 |
Tenkawa | buZz: do you know who I am? | 17:48 |
Tenkawa | I feel like you should | 17:49 |
buZz | i dont know many japanese villages, no | 17:49 |
Tenkawa | I use to be on the devuan vid calls a while back before I had recurring medical issues | 17:49 |
buZz | 'vid calls' ? :D | 17:49 |
Tenkawa | mostly for Arm stuff | 17:50 |
buZz | nothing i would know about, no | 17:50 |
Tenkawa | ARM is my area of expertise | 17:50 |
Tenkawa | (nowadays) | 17:51 |
djph | buZz: they're like regular calls, except people can see you. It's gross | 17:51 |
buZz | nice, must be happy that the get-devuan page now finally links to ARM images ;) | 17:51 |
Tenkawa | djph: especially when they have to see me lol | 17:51 |
buZz | djph: i havent voluntary used a phone in over ...20? years | 17:51 |
buZz | they arent suitable for communication imho | 17:52 |
buZz | especially projectcommunication | 17:52 |
buZz | papertrail > * | 17:52 |
djph | indeed | 17:52 |
* Tenkawa is a long hair who is like 25 yrs older than he looks lol | 17:52 | |
buZz | ' i told you over the phone! ' isnt a replacement for a papertrail | 17:52 |
djph | well, I mean I prefer electronic means over "paper" these days | 17:52 |
buZz | djph: right, but written down | 17:52 |
djph | exactly | 17:52 |
buZz | not some 90 minute video dump you have to FULLY watch to find that 3 letters of commandline you need | 17:53 |
* Tenkawa hasn't voluntarily written much since he was about 16 | 17:53 | |
buZz | then its not likely i know you ;) | 17:53 |
* Tenkawa actually was forced to take writing classes amd his writing got worse | 17:53 | |
* Tenkawa can type 70-80 wpm with one hand | 17:53 | |
Tenkawa | Any of you using Devuan x86 on multi-displays by chance? | 17:54 |
buZz | sure, i have 4 monitors on my desktop here | 17:58 |
buZz | Screen 0: minimum 8 x 8, current 6674 x 1680, maximum 32767 x 32767 | 17:58 |
buZz | dimensions: 6674x1680 pixels (1766x445 millimeters) | 17:59 |
buZz | not sure if those mm are correct now | 17:59 |
buZz | hmm, yeah must be correct | 17:59 |
Tenkawa | does the screen to screen transitions work fairly well? | 17:59 |
buZz | sure, no issues | 17:59 |
Tenkawa | what kind of gpu are you using? | 17:59 |
buZz | wait, transitions? you mean dragging a window over? | 17:59 |
buZz | a GTX1060 | 17:59 |
Tenkawa | yeah dragging | 18:00 |
buZz | with nvidia's proprietary driver | 18:00 |
Tenkawa | same gpu I'd be using | 18:00 |
buZz | so heavily accelerated | 18:00 |
buZz | not nouveau which kinda works but is a ton slower | 18:00 |
Tenkawa | I have an omen sitting beside me | 18:00 |
buZz | what future is it foretelling? | 18:00 |
Tenkawa | I just had to replace a bad battery but I'm trying to determine its "future" | 18:01 |
buZz | ah , some portable device | 18:01 |
Tenkawa | yeah.. high end gaming laptop | 18:01 |
buZz | ahhh, 'voodoo pc' that rings a bell | 18:02 |
Tenkawa | but I think the battery and a cap went bad | 18:02 |
buZz | hmhm, gaming laptops in general arent intended to function beyond the warranty | 18:02 |
Tenkawa | indeed | 18:03 |
buZz | they're pretty abysmal wastes of money, imho | 18:03 |
Tenkawa | yeah I got this one for 1/2 off | 18:03 |
buZz | screen removed? :D | 18:03 |
buZz | oh, half off the price | 18:03 |
Tenkawa | no. just on sale | 18:03 |
buZz | it was -new-? :D | 18:03 |
Tenkawa | yep | 18:03 |
buZz | oh, not a recent purchase then i guess | 18:03 |
Tenkawa | no | 18:03 |
buZz | hehe ait | 18:04 |
Tenkawa | 3 years old | 18:04 |
Tenkawa | 2019 | 18:04 |
buZz | just find your nearest hackerspace, donate your ewaste to them | 18:04 |
buZz | hehe | 18:04 |
Tenkawa | ewaste is one blocik | 18:04 |
Tenkawa | er block away | 18:04 |
buZz | the netbook i bought in 2007 (eeepc 700surf) still works :P | 18:05 |
Tenkawa | my electric company takes all hazardous material (batteries (including lead acid) cfl & other bulbs) etc) | 18:05 |
buZz | wait, 701 surf, i guess | 18:05 |
Tenkawa | great find | 18:05 |
buZz | Tenkawa: i dont suggest recycling, i suggest upcycling :D | 18:06 |
Tenkawa | buZz: noone around here does it | 18:06 |
buZz | half working laptop melted down for metals is not good for environment | 18:06 |
buZz | hackerspaces do it | 18:06 |
Tenkawa | we don't have any | 18:06 |
buZz | they use whatever tech they can get to do whatever they want | 18:06 |
buZz | yes you do | 18:06 |
buZz | what region are you in? | 18:06 |
Tenkawa | buZz: trust me.. we don't... the ones we had.. got shutdown by jerks | 18:07 |
buZz | unless you live in rural africa, its very likely there's a hackerspace near :P | 18:07 |
djph | the "nearby" one closed down, now I'dhave to drive like 2 hours(ew) | 18:07 |
buZz | welp, bbl, gotta feed my breadmaker some flour | 18:07 |
Tenkawa | everything here is so "commercial" | 18:07 |
djph | mmmmm, bread | 18:07 |
buZz | djph: found a breadmaker at a thriftstore for 7.50 | 18:08 |
djph | noice | 18:08 |
buZz | think i ate more bread since i found it than i did in the ~10 years before | 18:08 |
djph | I usually make 1-2 loaves a week | 18:08 |
buZz | also a LOT tastier bread | 18:08 |
* Tenkawa doesn't have a breadmaker but has been making a lot of homemade icecream lately | 18:08 | |
djph | breadmaker to do the dough-making, oven for the actual baking. | 18:08 |
buZz | i made 3 baquettes yesterday, were all gone when i woke up today :) | 18:08 |
buZz | my housemates like it | 18:09 |
djph | hahahah | 18:09 |
djph | now what you need is to put linux on it, and ... something ... | 18:09 |
buZz | just ~800gram a pop though | 18:09 |
Tenkawa | I would be in trouble if I had a homemade breadmaker | 18:09 |
buZz | djph: yeah i want to 'iot' one of em | 18:09 |
buZz | need to get me a second one | 18:09 |
buZz | at least measure current and temperature, and maybe also 'read the display' and 'operate the buttons' | 18:10 |
Tenkawa | my wife and I just got a big order of bagels from our local bakery this morning lol | 18:10 |
buZz | frozen bagels then? | 18:10 |
Tenkawa | buZz: fortunately the truck woke my wife up so she was able to grab them from outside before they did | 18:11 |
Tenkawa | (truck was loud) | 18:11 |
Tenkawa | they dropped them off at the house | 18:12 |
buZz | ah no , i ment, why order a large number of bagels, are you planning to freeze them? are they made with conservation products to keep >2 days? | 18:12 |
buZz | here in .nl its illegal for commercial bread to use such products | 18:12 |
Tenkawa | fresh bagels last about a week | 18:13 |
buZz | > a fresh bagel can harden out in just 48 hours | 18:13 |
buZz | i guess store em without oxygen ;) | 18:13 |
Tenkawa | if you don't store them properly | 18:13 |
Tenkawa | ours are stored airtight | 18:14 |
buZz | nice, and vacuum then? | 18:14 |
Tenkawa | pretty much | 18:14 |
Tenkawa | we are vegetarian so food tends to have lower shelf life in general once its opened if we don't | 18:15 |
golinux | The enforcer here. Take it to OT guys . . . | 18:18 |
golinux | Tenkawa: I heard a rumor that you were through with devuan . . . | 18:18 |
Tenkawa | don't know who told you that: | 18:19 |
Tenkawa | No LSB modules are available. | 18:19 |
Tenkawa | Distributor ID: Devuan | 18:19 |
Tenkawa | I still have it on multiple arm boxes | 18:19 |
WoC | Does the 32 bit edition have PAE ? | 18:22 |
WoC | ( devuan_chimaera_4.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso ) | 18:23 |
fsmithred | WoC, the desktop-live has the pad kernel, the minimal-live does not. | 18:23 |
fsmithred | pae | 18:24 |
WoC | ok, ty | 18:32 |
WoC | Appreciated | 18:33 |
WoC | Btw, is there an aarch32/aarch64 version in the works ? | 18:43 |
WoC | That would be awesome | 18:43 |
Tenkawa | WoC: join #devuan-arm .. it already exists | 18:50 |
buZz | WoC: its already on the download page? | 18:55 |
buZz | WoC: https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan.html 'download locations' behind 'embedded' , halfway down the page | 18:56 |
Tenkawa | buZz: that link really needs to be fixed... its very confusing because you have to dig down to find actual up to date versions | 18:59 |
buZz | i agree, i commented to xenguy about it | 18:59 |
buZz | imho it should be top center under ARM | 19:00 |
buZz | not hidden in a paragraph behind many links | 19:00 |
buZz | many ppl to this day still believe devuan doesnt do arm | 19:00 |
Tenkawa | yeah... I know that since the first ones weren't even c0rnelius and my builder they were way out of date | 19:01 |
WoC | oh, ty | 19:01 |
WoC | ppc64be would be nice too | 19:03 |
Tenkawa | WoC: is there a "public available" board for that architecture thats not in a machine (ie a soc) or are they all in prebuilt machines? | 19:04 |
WoC | there's an iso | 19:06 |
WoC | along with them pre-built images per board | 19:06 |
WoC | board=sbc | 19:06 |
WoC | i'll just see if I can make a usb-stick from the iso | 19:07 |
buZz | yeah there's only ppc64el | 19:07 |
buZz | which machine is ppc64be? | 19:07 |
buZz | xbox360? | 19:07 |
Tenkawa | ahh its a powerpc | 19:07 |
WoC | BigEndian, such as G5 | 19:07 |
Tenkawa | ouch | 19:07 |
buZz | oh yeah :D hahaha | 19:07 |
Tenkawa | thats older | 19:08 |
buZz | we have some dual G5 at the hackerspace , they use >1600W | 19:08 |
buZz | we never turned em on :) | 19:08 |
Tenkawa | would be a harder one to build images for | 19:08 |
WoC | The PPC970x does not have the little endian mode | 19:08 |
buZz | thats a 20 year old cpu though | 19:08 |
WoC | Right, i got two of them | 19:09 |
WoC | G5 PowerMacs that is | 19:09 |
Tenkawa | WoC: today's kernel would likely have issues with them | 19:09 |
buZz | likewise, the itanium from 2002 isnt supported either :P | 19:09 |
WoC | Actually no, works fine | 19:09 |
Tenkawa | WoC: what kernel version? | 19:09 |
WoC | Right, they really messed up with the scheduler in Itanium | 19:10 |
buZz | WoC: welp, build a image? :D | 19:10 |
WoC | just an iso ;) | 19:10 |
buZz | you sound like the most likely ppc expert now :) | 19:10 |
WoC | heh | 19:10 |
WoC | To be honest, what I like the most with Devuan is the option to select SystemV as init ;) | 19:11 |
WoC | I don't recall which version of the kernel I last ran on my G5's... it's been on the back burner for a while | 19:12 |
WoC | But you got to love that WindFarm... | 19:13 |
WoC | I thought that was pretty loud, until i started up my PowerEdge w/o the door closed | 19:13 |
Tenkawa | WoC: that's exactly my point.. if you haven't used any of the new branches in the last 2-3 years they have dramaticly changed/dropped support for some of that older hardware | 19:13 |
Tenkawa | the kernel is going through massive changes right now | 19:14 |
WoC | Right, i wouldn't mind some nVidia drivers for ppc64be though ;P | 19:14 |
WoC | not nouv* | 19:14 |
Tenkawa | no.. I mean as in architectures like those being dropped... | 19:15 |
Tenkawa | older architectures | 19:15 |
WoC | Right | 19:15 |
WoC | i guess some of the vax etc | 19:15 |
WoC | parisc too probably | 19:16 |
Tenkawa | It was a sad day for me long ago when parisc *lol* | 19:16 |
Tenkawa | hahaa | 19:16 |
Tenkawa | jinx | 19:16 |
Tenkawa | thats too funny | 19:16 |
WoC | I used to have a HP 9000/E45 | 19:16 |
buZz | maybe a i386 version would be fun aswell | 19:16 |
buZz | :P | 19:16 |
Tenkawa | parisc is gone | 19:16 |
WoC | Well it was a file server, three raid systems | 19:17 |
WoC | HP-UX 10.20 | 19:17 |
WoC | Just enough to make the fuse box in my apartment shimmer in red | 19:17 |
Tenkawa | yeah I was a HP-UX 11 admin last | 19:17 |
WoC | Somehow i never had a fire though | 19:18 |
Tenkawa | yeah HP hardware was scary | 19:18 |
WoC | :) | 19:18 |
WoC | I loved that you could boot from a tape | 19:18 |
WoC | I used that a number of times when I re-arranged the raids | 19:19 |
WoC | i even had gnu on it | 19:19 |
golinux | This is wandering to OT banter guys . . .Please do your chest thumping there | 19:19 |
WoC | ;] | 19:20 |
WoC | Sorry, nostalgia trip not planned... | 19:20 |
buZz | tldr; there is devuan for ppc64el, arm64, armel and armhf | 19:24 |
buZz | and a couple of those boring x86 ones | 19:24 |
golinux | Yeah . . . it's exciting to find new friends but this is a support channel . . | 19:24 |
buZz | one of these days i wanna finally get a devuan working properly on my ancient chromebook | 19:25 |
WoC | arm7 ? | 19:27 |
buZz | yeah , exynos 5800 , 8core | 19:27 |
buZz | 4gb ddr3 iirc | 19:27 |
buZz | samsung xe503c32 , weirdly still kinda pricey used | 19:28 |
WoC | ARMv7-A32 (32 bit) | 19:29 |
buZz | yeah lol, as if there was a 64bit armv7 ever :D | 19:30 |
buZz | who writes such line with a straight face :D | 19:30 |
WoC | That be Arm8 | 19:30 |
buZz | '80386 32bit edition' | 19:30 |
buZz | :D | 19:30 |
WoC | But the micro controller version of the 386 would be fun to play with | 19:31 |
WoC | i forgot what it was called though | 19:31 |
buZz | the radiation hardened ones? | 19:31 |
WoC | My memory fails me on that | 19:32 |
buZz | the ones that are in so many satellites | 19:32 |
gordonDrogon | Speaking of Devian ARM... RISC-V ? | 19:32 |
buZz | incl hubble up till recently? | 19:32 |
WoC | Sounds plausible | 19:32 |
buZz | gordonDrogon: i bet it'll be 'hw donations welcome' for a while :P | 19:32 |
golinux | And what does this have to do with devuan support? | 19:33 |
buZz | risc-v support? well, it'll be coming? | 19:33 |
gordonDrogon | hope so. | 19:33 |
buZz | me too | 19:33 |
WoC | I second that ;) | 19:33 |
golinux | Surrpot is for grub is broken in the here and now. | 19:33 |
golinux | Sypport | 19:33 |
gordonDrogon | lilo is still a thing... | 19:34 |
golinux | Good grief . . .support | 19:34 |
buZz | ait, well, for ARM devuan doesnt use grub either, afaik | 19:34 |
buZz | -probably- uBoot | 19:34 |
WoC | I use Tow-Boot, not an issue ;) | 19:34 |
golinux | If you have a support problem please post here. Otherwise take it to OT guys . . . | 19:34 |
WoC | [; sorry | 19:35 |
WoC | I keep derailing | 19:35 |
golinux | buZz should know better . . . | 19:35 |
WoC | or for arm* #devuan-arm | 19:36 |
golinux | We shouldn't have to log all this nonsense | 19:36 |
golinux | Yeah . . . good idea to go there too | 19:36 |
WoC | Maybe #Devuan-RISC-V too ? | 19:38 |
bb|hcb | buZz: I have an arm board that boots Devuan with grub/efi; btw. the current Devuan aarch64 iso does not support EFI | 20:06 |
Tenkawa | yeah the only one I know that does is ubuntu.. I think we'd have to redo our hooks | 20:09 |
Tenkawa | Let me ask c0rnelius | 20:09 |
bb|hcb | Not only, Debian aarch64 iso also supports EFI | 20:11 |
Tenkawa | bb|hcb: only on certain images | 20:12 |
Tenkawa | I'm talking specificly about devuan (that uses our builder) | 20:12 |
bb|hcb | http://arm-files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera_4.0_arm64_pool1.iso this one? | 20:14 |
bb|hcb | Maybe _pool1 should suggest it is not bootable... | 20:15 |
Tenkawa | those aren't ours | 20:15 |
Tenkawa | let me ask | 20:16 |
fsmithred | bootable isos for arm are on pkgmaster in the installer tree | 20:17 |
fsmithred | mini.iso with the installer in it | 20:17 |
fsmithred | I've used the one for ppc64le | 20:17 |
fsmithred | it installs devuan | 20:17 |
fsmithred | (in qemu) | 20:17 |
WoC | from what I have seen, most distros are using grub for the EFI on aarch64 | 20:18 |
Tenkawa | I think something mentioned to me was right too... ubuntu has even stopped using u-boot after focal | 20:18 |
Tenkawa | WoC: no.. most aren't | 20:19 |
WoC | well, those I have seen | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | rpi aren't.. alpine isn't....nothing debian "I've" seen is | 20:19 |
Tenkawa | what have you seen is? | 20:19 |
WoC | opensuse | 20:20 |
Tenkawa | opensuse is one of the smallest used arm distros | 20:20 |
WoC | hmmm, some more but i can't recall | 20:20 |
WoC | right... pmOS | 20:21 |
Tenkawa | also next to non-existant used | 20:21 |
buZz | there's a devuan based OS for phones :) | 20:21 |
buZz | its maemo-leste ! | 20:21 |
buZz | they're reviving old nokia foss on top of devuan, its really cool stuff | 20:22 |
Tenkawa | Maemo/Devuan would be awesome | 20:22 |
buZz | Tenkawa: this exists today | 20:22 |
buZz | for n900/droid4/droid3/coupleothers | 20:22 |
buZz | pinephone | 20:22 |
Tenkawa | I still have my N800 | 20:22 |
Tenkawa | lol | 20:22 |
buZz | https://leste.maemo.org/Main_Page | 20:22 |
buZz | hehe me too, but got it many years later ;) | 20:22 |
WoC | i'm still hoping to install gnu/linux on my old Pixel 4 XL Coral | 20:23 |
WoC | Maybe one day... | 20:23 |
buZz | WoC: do you have a booting kernel? | 20:23 |
buZz | oh, lineage does, you might be able to just get that working with devuan | 20:23 |
WoC | nope... someone built a whole set but didn't save it | 20:24 |
WoC | hate to replace android for another android | 20:24 |
sedrosken | no he's saying you might be able to get the kernel meant for lineage to work with the devuan userland | 20:25 |
WoC | oh | 20:25 |
sedrosken | since, yknow, by and large, linux is linux | 20:25 |
WoC | right, but android is special... | 20:25 |
sedrosken | not at the kernel level | 20:26 |
sedrosken | not exceptionally so, anyway. Not in a show-stopping way | 20:26 |
WoC | it is, with all the android specifics | 20:26 |
Tenkawa | darn won't run on the n800... only the n900 | 20:26 |
bb|hcb | fsmithred: Thanks for the info, I have missed that somehow... | 20:27 |
WoC | just a partition table is tricky enough | 20:27 |
WoC | can you upgrade from within beowulf to chimera ? | 20:47 |
Tenkawa | yeah | 20:47 |
WoC | do-release-upgrade ? | 20:48 |
fsmithred | sed -i 's/beowulf/chimaera/g' /etc/apt/sources.list | 20:48 |
Tenkawa | https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/upgrade-to-chimaera | 20:48 |
fsmithred | apt update && apt dist-upgrade | 20:48 |
WoC | ah ok | 20:48 |
fsmithred | you might want to do apt updgrade before the dist-upgrade | 20:48 |
WoC | right | 20:49 |
Tenkawa | agreed... "always" upgrade before dist-upgrade | 20:49 |
WoC | ;] | 20:49 |
Tenkawa | I've been burnt by a bad pkging bug | 20:49 |
WoC | heh, haven't we all, or most | 20:49 |
Tenkawa | only once or twice in 20 years but why take the chance | 20:49 |
WoC | indeed | 20:50 |
buZz | does migrating from debian 11 to devuan chimaera still work? :P | 20:53 |
fsmithred | sometimes | 20:53 |
fsmithred | we had to modify the guides recently | 20:54 |
buZz | i found a 'untested' image of debian 11 that 'should' work on my chromebook :) mirroring the ssd now to try in a bit | 20:54 |
fsmithred | and there are a couple of scripts that will do it | 20:54 |
bb|hcb | Yes, but there are caveats... Yesterday I did that for 8 VMs, can share how it went | 20:54 |
buZz | i'll have a near virgin install | 20:54 |
fsmithred | that helps | 20:54 |
buZz | > This document describes how to remove D-Bus from Devuan | 20:55 |
fsmithred | bb|hcb, servers? | 20:55 |
buZz | zomg <3 | 20:55 |
fsmithred | dbus? Pin that sucker to -1 right from the start. | 20:55 |
bb|hcb | Yep, servers | 20:55 |
buZz | ah well, there's https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/bullseye-to-chimaera.html | 20:55 |
buZz | nice :) | 20:55 |
fsmithred | I was gonna say that server upgrades are easier than desktops, but now I want to hear the truth. | 20:56 |
bb|hcb | Also Debian 11 is usrmerged, so the resulting Devuan after the convert will be too. I haven't tried to unmerge it | 20:56 |
buZz | ah > the /{bin,sbin,lib}/ directories becoming symbolic links to /usr/{bin,sbin,lib}/. | 20:56 |
WoC | them symlinks seems to be one of the major mistakes that infects many distros | 20:58 |
bb|hcb | Exactly. Also one of my laptops is like that and I haven't seen a problem. But if you build a package on a usrmerged system, the result may not work on non-usrmerged ones | 20:58 |
fsmithred | yikes | 20:58 |
bb|hcb | Unless you build in pbuilder/sbuild chroot, ofc | 20:58 |
fsmithred | so we will have a lot more forked packages? | 20:59 |
buZz | > Instead of moving more tools to /, we today already require /usr to be mounted from inside the initramfs, to be available before the real 'init' starts. The split of the root filesystem and /usr serves no purpose in Linux anymore and only complicates or prevents simple and more flexible setups. | 20:59 |
buZz | (from fedora) | 20:59 |
fsmithred | really, we should do away with all subdirectories and put everything in / | 21:00 |
fsmithred | that way everything will be easier to find | 21:00 |
bb|hcb | fsmithred: In case Devuan decides to stay un-usrmerged, one way is to rebuild everything (like Ubuntu) | 21:01 |
fsmithred | we need 100 people for that | 21:02 |
bb|hcb | buZz: usrmerge makes it impossible to have /usr on a separate device, unless there is initrd and the tooling+drivers to mount it | 21:02 |
bb|hcb | fsmithred: no, automated w/o changing anything; with bookworm Debian will start building packages in a usrmerged chroot | 21:03 |
fsmithred | oh, ok. not so bad, then. | 21:03 |
fsmithred | (not a deal-breaker) | 21:04 |
bb|hcb | And at least some of those will not be suitable (only the binaries, the source is unchanged) | 21:04 |
buZz | wait, they want /lib/modules to be /usr/lib/modules aswell, ehr | 21:04 |
WoC | and firmware | 21:04 |
buZz | ah, ofcourse it originates from 'him' | 21:05 |
bb|hcb | "lib -> usr/lib" (symlink), so see above about initrd | 21:06 |
buZz | the guy that thought rm -rf . should also recursively delete .. 'because its in the directory aswell!' | 21:06 |
bb|hcb | Personally I do not see any benefit from usrmerge; only problems (incompatible packages) and less freedom, e.g. can't run without initrd and /usr on another drive | 21:09 |
ibanja | rwp: You helped me with a backspace issue last week. Your "stty -a" command helped locate the problem. I have since noticed that qtermianl shows erase = ^H and lxterminal has erase = ^?. I didn't realize I have qterminal running. I stopped all qterminals and switched to lxterminal and all backspace problems are gone. The space issue seems to have cleared up too. | 21:10 |
buZz | i see one argument for its adoption , its to make .rpm building easier | 21:10 |
buZz | havent found another, beside some weird ro /usr for internetcafes or something? | 21:11 |
ElPresidente | i've noticed that openrc scripts look really similar to sysv scripts. are openrc scripts backwards compatible with sysv-init scripts? | 21:11 |
rwp | ibanja, Cool! | 21:11 |
bb|hcb | Also in the transition period (think: bullseye / chimaera), dpkg doesn't know which is where, because packages are built on non-merged chroot and installed on a merged system, so dpkg thinks that mount is /sbin/mount but it is actually in /usr/sbin/mount | 21:12 |
rwp | ibanja, Years ago there was a split in real actual terminal vendors in what should be the erase key. It's was a problem when both were active. But pretty much DEL has won that war. | 21:12 |
rwp | I have no idea why qterminal would decide to choose ^H for the erase character today in 2022. That seems really strange to me now. Blasting us back to 1990 on an IBM terminal or something. | 21:14 |
ibanja | It does sound strange. | 21:14 |
rwp | bb|hcb, I agree. No real benefit from the UsrMerge. It's just change for the sake of change. | 21:15 |
ibanja | qterminal was running because the alternives was set to qterminal... I was playing with lxqt for a few days | 21:15 |
buZz | https://github.com/lxqt/qterminal/issues/770#issuecomment-748444889 | 21:15 |
WoC | at least you don't lose the 180+ char command line when you by accident use back-space | 21:15 |
buZz | from dev > ^H for Backspace and ^? for Ctrl+Backspace is what I got from xterm 362. Also, ncurses considers as ^H as the backspace key for xterm [1][2]. | 21:15 |
buZz | wtf is ctrl+backspace :D | 21:16 |
WoC | to kill x | 21:16 |
buZz | ctrl+alt+backspace, yeah, ctrl+backspace isnt | 21:16 |
rwp | ibanja, from buZz ^^ https://github.com/lxqt/qterminal/issues/770#issuecomment-748444889 | 21:16 |
WoC | alt+control+backspace | 21:17 |
rwp | Zap! | 21:17 |
rwp | Don't do it! Drops X. | 21:17 |
buZz | :) | 21:17 |
buZz | i think xorg removed that default a while ago | 21:17 |
rwp | If configured since it is disabled now by default everywhere. | 21:17 |
ibanja | just read the read the link... so it makes sense then that I was having issues | 21:17 |
WoC | almost as fun as hitting break on a serial terminal hooked up to a hp ;) | 21:17 |
rwp | Ubuntu removed it because it became a prank thing that kids would tell their friends to do to prank them. | 21:17 |
buZz | WoC: if you see a unguarded chromebook, try 'refresh' + 'power' on the keyb, should be insta-powercycle :P | 21:17 |
WoC | ;) | 21:18 |
buZz | rwp: ooo, like 'press alt+f4 in game to gain 10 lives!' | 21:18 |
ibanja | I think the install process gives an option to include the at+control+backspace as the x killer | 21:18 |
WoC | lol | 21:18 |
rwp | Note that I always enable it. "setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp ..." plus other options. | 21:18 |
buZz | ibanja: the devuan installer? | 21:18 |
ibanja | buZz: yes, the devuan installer | 21:19 |
WoC | hitting break on a serial terminal hooked up to a hp (and i think sun) drops you to firmware | 21:19 |
buZz | havent seen it in a while , should revisit :) | 21:19 |
bb|hcb | There is a better key-combo: Alt-SysRq-B (save your work before you dare try) | 21:20 |
rwp | Meanwhile... I am still trying to understand qterminal. Why are they defaulting to ^H these days? Do they set a different TERM setting? | 21:20 |
buZz | they seem to be under impression that its the better option | 21:20 |
buZz | and that just the terminal programs are at fault, because ncurses gets it | 21:20 |
rwp | When working with papertape it is important to have both BS (backspace) and DEL (delete) available. | 21:22 |
rwp | So one can backspace to the chars they want to overwrite with DEL chars to delete them. | 21:22 |
rwp | But if someone is actually working with papertape today then... Let me share in the fun too! How can I join in? :-) | 21:22 |
WoC | heh | 21:25 |
rwp | Regarding Zap! IIRC Ubuntu was the first to disable it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgCtrlAltBackspace and also https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10510 | 21:27 |
rwp | Oh, here we go, from 2007: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/95258 | 21:28 |
WoC | Although, speaking of, they also has the best sysv compatibility of all systemd distros | 21:30 |
WoC | although it doesn't work as good as init 3 && init 5 | 21:31 |
ElPresidente | rwp: kids running Linux? | 21:39 |
rwp | Mostly in university environments for programming classes. | 21:39 |
ElPresidente | rwp: that would make sense. i need a coffee | 21:39 |
rwp | So sorry that I am referring to twenty year olds as kids. My bad. It's inevitable. | 21:40 |
ElPresidente | rwp: i'm 23 and i feel like a pensioner remembering using slackware when all the kids these days get ubuntu. | 21:40 |
rwp | But I was referring to the maturity level of people who would prank each other that way not their physical age. | 21:40 |
rwp | ElPresidente then you and I can unite in yelling at them to get off our lawn! :-) | 21:41 |
Akuli | :DDDD | 21:45 |
ElPresidente | rwp: i just found out that the distro i used to use, slax, isn't even based off slackware anymore. nothing is sacred anymore. | 21:46 |
rwp | ibanja, Before leaving that issue entirely I should mention that one can put "stty erase ..." setting it to either ^H or ^? as needed. Better if in a case $QTERMINAL_SOMETHING so that if in a qterminal then one gets the qterminal setting and otherwise one gets the other setting. | 21:49 |
rwp | That was often seen in .bashrc files when people were needing to switch between HP & IBM and DEC terminals, back in the day. | 21:49 |
Tenkawa | rwp: we use to have it as as interactive "press your backspace key to continue" if it was a ui login | 21:52 |
Tenkawa | that way it would set everytime | 21:52 |
Tenkawa | and not have to "think" lol | 21:52 |
golinux | Good grief . . . rwp had the good sense to move the conversation to where it belows. Please follow | 21:54 |
golinux | to #off-topic | 21:54 |
ibanja | rwp: OK, thanks... good to remember. | 21:58 |
Tenkawa | golinux: what I just posted was referencing was also in reference to ibanja's topic as well so drop it!''= | 22:00 |
golinux | Tenkawa: If it was meant for someone then why didn't you call him by his nick? Just curious . . . I thought that was the way irc worked . . . | 22:12 |
Tenkawa | because not all of use have to do everything exactly one certain way. Stop complaining to me unless its about Devuan | 22:14 |
Tenkawa | talk on topic | 22:14 |
Tenkawa | follow your own lead | 22:14 |
Tenkawa | or let us be | 22:14 |
onefang | 600 messages since I went to sleep, and lots of it off topic. Anything important I should know about? I'll skip reading it all. | 23:47 |
golinux | onefang: Yeah . . . we need to get a handle on Tenkawa. He is often out of control on this channel and refuses to take it where it be;longs | 23:57 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!