| libh | What did the installer mean by openrc is still experimental? I thought devuan was supposed to work with openrc, any gotchas I should be aware of because I wish to use openrc. | 11:38 |
|---|---|---|
| ShorTie | na, ir's good | 11:45 |
| libh | Was that meant to be for me ShortTie? | 11:48 |
| gnarface | the primary issue with openrc is just that there's a lot less people using it so if you run into issues you'll have to wait longer to get attention from someone who knows first hand | 11:50 |
| gnarface | there's a few people here who have had plenty of success | 11:50 |
| gnarface | some of them have had to craft a missing startup file here or there | 11:50 |
| libh | Experimental implied my system could stop working entirely because of openrc. I can deal with now and again having to create my own startup files or manually having to configure something. | 11:53 |
| gnarface | well there's a high bar to call something stable around here | 12:12 |
| gnarface | also, i'm not sure there were enough people around who had tried it to really know how well it would work when that was written | 12:14 |
| gnarface | i think, if you're planning on doing something important with it, it might be a good idea to stick around and talk to some others who have used it, or check the forum for a thread about it | 12:14 |
| libh | I'll direct all openrc questions to the openrc channel unless something more devuan related happens. Thank you for the help. | 12:16 |
| gnarface | well | 12:17 |
| gnarface | one thing should be noted | 12:17 |
| gnarface | it's debian's openrc build which relies on sysvinit scripts by default | 12:17 |
| gnarface | different from the gentoo one | 12:17 |
| libh | Point taken. Thank you. | 12:18 |
| gnarface | though you can easily change it, i'm not sure if the openrc channel actually supports this method | 12:18 |
| gnarface | actually someone has changed them out, that build is around here somewhere but i think still not official | 12:18 |
| gnarface | and i think the difference is a path or a symlink or something, so you can alter it in place to behave like the gentoo one and just supply all your own startup files, which some have also done but i forget the details | 12:19 |
| gnarface | maybe there's info in the forum about that | 12:19 |
| gnarface | if you stick around here though someone will eventually show up who has used it | 12:20 |
| libh | I'll lurk for a while. | 12:21 |
| gnarface | some regulars do use it, it's just not the popular choice because alot of us are real old. sysvinit has its flaws but for us the cost has already been paid | 12:22 |
| libh | You think in the future we could remove the dependency on sysvinit scripts for openrc and make it closer to gentoo's openrc setup? | 12:22 |
| gnarface | not my call | 12:22 |
| gnarface | i know it has been discussed but we try to keep stuff as close to debian as possible where it's not directly related to systemd | 12:23 |
| gnarface | and by we i mean they, but i agree with the principle | 12:23 |
| gnarface | i think there might be a better chance of a second version being put in some "proposed-updates" repo but my info may be so out of date on that that it may have already been done | 12:25 |
| fsmithred | that and there needs to be someone to actually do it | 12:25 |
| gnarface | ah, yea it would need a maintainer | 12:25 |
| fsmithred | there are a few regulars on the forum who use openrc. My impression is that it works just fine. | 12:26 |
| gnarface | just leaving it the way debian does it keeps maintenance costs low | 12:26 |
| fsmithred | debian has what, 1000 or 2000 devs/maintainers? We have around a dozen to maybe 20 depending on how you count. | 12:26 |
| fsmithred | I've made a few live-isos with openrc. The fact that it uses sysvinit scripts makes it work without having to do anything special. I never had any problems with those isos. | 12:29 |
| tarzeau | fsmithred: do you have publicly documented your live-iso creation? how long does it take per iso? | 12:31 |
| fsmithred | yes, it's documented. On my old toshiba laptop with hyperthreaded quad i7, it takes about 10 minutes on hardware and around 20 in VM | 12:34 |
| fsmithred | hang on... | 12:34 |
| fsmithred | you want to see the code or the documentation for refractasnapshot? | 12:35 |
| fsmithred | https://refracta.org/documents.html | 12:35 |
| fsmithred | https://git.devuan.org/devuan/refractasnapshot-base | 12:36 |
| tarzeau | how would https://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/bullseye-to-chimaera work for debian sid? | 12:36 |
| fsmithred | probably close to the same | 12:37 |
| tarzeau | i'd like a Makefile i can run that creates an iso :) that i can fiddle around (edit iso name, add my own packages, and so on) | 12:37 |
| fsmithred | there's really no way to predict what has changed | 12:37 |
| fsmithred | oh, you might want to look at live-sdk | 12:37 |
| fsmithred | refractasnapshot copies the running live system to hard disk. | 12:38 |
| tarzeau | https://packages.devuan.org/search?keywords=live-sdk 404 | 12:38 |
| fsmithred | live-sdk does a debootstrap install and pulls packages from the rpo | 12:38 |
| fsmithred | nope. | 12:38 |
| fsmithred | it's not packaged. Just pull the git. https://git.devuan.org/devuan-sdk/live-sdk | 12:39 |
| fsmithred | if you want to use debian's live-build to make isos, talk to the devs for Star or Crows (devuan respins) | 12:40 |
| tarzeau | will it work for the next 20 years? | 12:40 |
| fsmithred | not sure if I'll still be on this side of the grass in 20 years | 12:40 |
| tarzeau | i'm asking because for http://www.aiei.ch/gnustep/ i've basically started from scratch every release | 12:41 |
| tarzeau | and it's been 5 years without a release already | 12:41 |
| fsmithred | refractasnapshot is the easier workflow. Install a system in a VM or on spare hardware. Set it up exactly how you want. Run refractasnapshot. Wait a few minutes. Test your iso. | 12:43 |
| tarzeau | https://repology.org/projects/?search=refracta basically unavailable as .deb | 12:44 |
| tarzeau | but thanks for the pointer, will look at sources | 12:44 |
| fsmithred | live-sdk you set up a package list and some build instructions and/or pre-edited config files, run it, wait about an hour, test the iso and see what it looks like. Rinse and repeat until you get it right. | 12:45 |
| tarzeau | reminds me of lh (live-helper) | 12:45 |
| fsmithred | refractasnapshot-base and refractasnapshot-gui are in devuan repo | 12:45 |
| tarzeau | it was so unbearably slow, i just stopped trying | 12:45 |
| fsmithred | yes, live-sdk is similar to live-helper/live-build | 12:45 |
| fsmithred | it is good if you plan to make a lot of updated releases. | 12:46 |
| fsmithred | you just run it and it pulls the latest packages. | 12:46 |
| fsmithred | and the same setup will build for both i386 and amd64 | 12:46 |
| fsmithred | with refractasnapshot you'd need two installed systems for that | 12:47 |
| libh | I'll admit that openrc has been a smoother experience than sysvinit has been for me. Example- I was trying a debootstrap install and installing sane-utils gave me an error 1. No such error with openrc. I'll admit the openrc was from a standard netinstall rather than a debootstrap attempt. | 12:48 |
| libh | Though I think I know why, I was using a package install script and I forgot a backslash \ to continue to the next line, which may have screwed up the entirely command making things difficult with sane-utils for sysvinit. | 12:59 |
| wipt | hey, I upgraded from Devuan 2.1 -> 3.1 -> 4.0, but the last upgrade broke wifi. Is there something simple I'm probably overlooking? | 18:14 |
| golinux | wipt: wicd is removed due to new Python version | 18:18 |
| golinux | Choose another way yo do it until of if wicd returns. And next time read the Release Notes. ;) https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/Release_notes.txt | 18:20 |
| wipt | golinux: thanks! | 18:20 |
| golinux | Choose another way to do it until or if (need to start proofreading) | 18:20 |
| golinux | yw | 18:21 |
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