| jason1236 | nemo: because ascii is less junk than the more modern debian releases. it gets worst n worst with debian | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| djph | isn't ascii EOL? | 01:16 |
| Xenguy | djph, https://www.devuan.org/os/releases | 01:17 |
| systemdlete | the current upgrade is demanding I install avahi. I don't want to. Why is this suddenly a dependency of one of the packages I've been using for years WITHOUT avahi? Did I miss a memo? | 03:09 |
| brocashelm | which package is it? | 03:10 |
| systemdlete | not sure. | 03:10 |
| brocashelm | i checked aptitude why-not avahi-daemon and noticed libsane1 is one of those dependencies (libsane1 is installed on my machine, but i don't have avahi-daemon) | 03:12 |
| systemdlete | I did install a new package this past week: gnome todo. I wonder if gnome is requiring avahi? | 03:12 |
| systemdlete | I removed avahi-daemon today, with no complaints from apt. So it seems to be a "soft" dependency | 03:13 |
| systemdlete | I guess I could ban avahi* packages | 03:13 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: did you use --no-install-recommends? | 03:13 |
| gnarface | systemdlete: it's probably just a recommend not an actual depend | 03:14 |
| systemdlete | no I did not. | 03:14 |
| systemdlete | apt rdepends avahi-daemon | grep Depends | 03:14 |
| brocashelm | pin the avahi* packages and you'll see which upgrades are needing it | 03:14 |
| systemdlete | apt-mark? | 03:15 |
| brocashelm | i use apt pinning | 03:15 |
| gnarface | it at least used to be just a recommend, it'd be disappointing if they changed that | 03:15 |
| brocashelm | in your /etc/apt/preference.d dir, create a file for avahi | 03:15 |
| systemdlete | will that prevent installation in the future? | 03:15 |
| gnarface | it was recommended for cups and sane for automatic network printer discovery, i can't imagine it would actually need it to work | 03:16 |
| gnarface | printer/scanner | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | in the file, put this: | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | Package: avahi* | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | Pin: release * | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | Pin-Priority: -1 | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | then try upgrading and see which packages got affected | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | it will prevent any avahi* package from being installed/upgraded | 03:16 |
| brocashelm | refracta by default does not come with avahi-daemon | 03:17 |
| systemdlete | thanks, brocashelm! that works nicely. | 03:17 |
| fsmithred | I could never figure out what it was good for | 03:17 |
| brocashelm | systemdlete: yw | 03:18 |
| fsmithred | I guess it advertises services, which is the opposite of what I want to do. | 03:18 |
| brocashelm | apt pinning (if done right) is a lifesaver | 03:18 |
| systemdlete | fsmithred: The problem is that I added gnome to-do this week. That, in turn, wants to install avahi. I did not realize until this morning that avahi had been installed with to-do | 03:19 |
| systemdlete | I think the same would have happened even with refracta. | 03:19 |
| brocashelm | you can install different versions of packages from other repos if you so prefer. i get my libgtk-3-0 packages from an obs repo that were built for devuan ceres (which i use) | 03:19 |
| brocashelm | let me check | 03:19 |
| systemdlete | (fsmithred: I still need to try out refracta on chimaera) | 03:19 |
| brocashelm | systemdlete: not seeing any avahi here | 03:20 |
| fsmithred | you should dump gnome-todo and install taskfer (aka todo-fsr, my first bash project) | 03:20 |
| systemdlete | hmmm. Do you see any "to-do" | 03:20 |
| brocashelm | https://dpaste.org/hee0 | 03:21 |
| systemdlete | taskfer! ah, will try that, thanks. I've been looking for a todo list that isn't broken like thunderbird's task list | 03:21 |
| brocashelm | this is a list of all the packages that will be installed if i only install gnome-todo | 03:21 |
| brocashelm | i have not installed (aborted the prompt). just wanted to make sure if this would affect me anyway | 03:22 |
| systemdlete | ok, I'm convinced. I did like refracta releases in the past, so I may return to them. | 03:22 |
| systemdlete | you guys are awesome, as always. | 03:22 |
| fsmithred | my chimaera isos were updated recently | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | what i like most about refracta is it doesn't come with metapackages installed by default | 03:23 |
| brocashelm | so you could remove individual packages without affecting your whole system | 03:23 |
| systemdlete | brocashelm: +1 on that | 03:23 |
| fsmithred | there are a couple - xorg and cups come to mind | 03:23 |
| systemdlete | meta packages are great if I want to install the entire suite of software. But otherwise, they can become a nuisance. | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | i convinced my mint friend to switch to devuan once he tried out refracta. he's still using it | 03:24 |
| systemdlete | :) | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | refracta also does the right thing by not having pulseaudio installed :D | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | btw, found out you could run a gvfs-less and policykit-1-less lxqt | 03:24 |
| brocashelm | it's mainly the dbus that's a bitch to remove | 03:25 |
| fsmithred | it was designed by an active community that's no longer active. I stick to the plan as much as possible. | 03:25 |
| fsmithred | I tried to upgrade a chimaera nodbus to daedalus. Gave up and decided I need to start it from scratch. I don't recall what issues I ran into, but it got messy. | 03:26 |
| brocashelm | elogind and dbus are probably the hardest to remove in chimaera and beyond | 03:26 |
| systemdlete | systemd and friends... the "gifts" that keep on giving | 03:28 |
| systemdlete | why don't those guys just go work for Microsoft, since that seems to be the direction they want to take Linux in anyway | 03:28 |
| systemdlete | Give those jobs to people who actually care about *nix and standards and all that stuff | 03:29 |
| fsmithred | OT | 03:29 |
| systemdlete | (sorry) | 03:29 |
| brocashelm | systemdlete: if you go to #devuan-offtopic, i'd continue that convo with you :) | 03:29 |
| systemdlete | brocashelm... maybe some other time. I'm needing to do some things here today. Thanks for the offer. | 03:29 |
| brocashelm | but i think it would be great if more help came along to remove more systemd spawns from non-systemd distros as it is | 03:30 |
| brocashelm | at least systemd is guaranteed OUT | 03:30 |
| systemdlete | well, I am going around upgrading all of my systems which are due, and others are trying to install avahi even though to-do is not installed there. Hmm. | 03:36 |
| systemdlete | So I am creating that pinning file on them | 03:37 |
| systemdlete | well, one other system as it turns out... at least so far. But I think I'll take the precaution on them now... | 03:39 |
| systemdlete | star linux has a file in preferences.d called avoid-systemd: | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | Package: systemd-sysv | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | Pin: release o=Debian | 03:41 |
| systemdlete | Pin-Priority: -1 | 03:41 |
| brocashelm | i put *systemd* on mine | 03:42 |
| brocashelm | just in case i use a repo containing systemd (for some packages) | 03:43 |
| fsmithred | that's an old file from devuan-basefiles, I think. It's no longer needed. | 03:43 |
| * brocashelm hides his tinfoil hat | 03:43 | |
| systemdlete | fsmithred: which repo is taskfer in? | 03:44 |
| fsmithred | none | 03:44 |
| systemdlete | ah. | 03:44 |
| fsmithred | it's on my sourceforge site, I think. I'll check. | 03:44 |
| fsmithred | it's not. | 03:45 |
| fsmithred | I'll find it and upload somewhere | 03:45 |
| fsmithred | couple minutes | 03:45 |
| brocashelm | nice | 03:46 |
| fsmithred | systemdlete, it should show up here in a few minutes: https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/Extras/ | 03:52 |
| fsmithred | https://sourceforge.net/projects/refracta/files/Extras/taskfer_0.06_all.deb | 03:57 |
| systemdlete | seems to complete the install but there is a note at the end, thus: | 04:06 |
| systemdlete | N: Download is performed unsandboxed as root as file '/iso/taskfer_0.06_all.deb' couldn't be accessed by user '_apt'. - pkgAcquire::Run (13: Permission denied) | 04:07 |
| fsmithred | yup | 04:07 |
| fsmithred | wait, what? | 04:07 |
| systemdlete | so that is normal for this package then? | 04:07 |
| fsmithred | how the hell did you download it? | 04:07 |
| fsmithred | that's an apt error message | 04:07 |
| systemdlete | I clicked on the link above and saved it to a local deb file | 04:08 |
| fsmithred | I get similar message when I do 'apt download <package>' as root | 04:08 |
| systemdlete | "taskfer" is not anywhere in usual paths apparently | 04:10 |
| systemdlete | so it looks like it really did fail to install | 04:10 |
| fsmithred | todo-fsr | 04:11 |
| fsmithred | todoTAB | 04:11 |
| fsmithred | -h FTW | 04:11 |
| fsmithred | systemdlete, is it there? | 04:12 |
| systemdlete | this is a text gui? | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | lol, yes. I said "bash project" | 04:12 |
| systemdlete | oh | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | don't dismiss it for that reason | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | look at --help | 04:12 |
| systemdlete | what is "todoTAB"? | 04:12 |
| fsmithred | and read whatever | 04:13 |
| fsmithred | TAB completion | 04:13 |
| systemdlete | I don't see that when I run todo-fsr at the commandline | 04:13 |
| systemdlete | oh | 04:13 |
| fsmithred | you know about that, right? | 04:13 |
| fsmithred | don't see what? | 04:13 |
| systemdlete | I just didn't realize it was command line | 04:14 |
| systemdlete | well, you typed todo-fsr then todoTAB, so I thought you meant invoke it as todo-fsr then go to the "todo" gui tab... | 04:15 |
| fsmithred | zless /usr/share/doc/taskfer/README.gz | 04:15 |
| systemdlete | (yes I know about command completion, I use it all the time) | 04:15 |
| fsmithred | no gui, but some tricky things you can do with it. | 04:15 |
| systemdlete | thanks, I'll look at this some more later. | 04:17 |
| fsmithred | lol, me too. I need to read it all. | 04:17 |
| Xenguy | rawr | 04:44 |
| nemo | jason1236: dunno about the junk thing, but isn't that why you're on devuan? anyway, are you sure it has support for the hardware you are using? that's the main issue with unsupported releases | 20:08 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!