libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2022-04-11

Hurgotronslightly confused... I updated from beowulf to chimaera, and now wicd is gone and Network-Manager is there (as expected)... but I don't have anything in my xfce bar for the network. Do I need some applet?01:41
gnarfaceuh, not sure but i think if so it'd probably start with xfce in the name01:51
fsmithredHurgotron, check autostart apps01:51
gnarfacetry "apt-cache search ^xfce"01:51
gnarfaceoh, or that01:51
fsmithredyou might need to restart the desktop (or the panel)01:52
golinuxHurgotron: Please read the chimaera Release Notes. https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/Release_notes.txt02:33
adhocgolinux: oh, that explains much =)02:35
adhocgolinux: did debian drop all the python2 apps from Bullseye ?02:36
adhocalso; "Starting from Devuan 2.0 ASCII, users should exclusively use02:37
adhoc   [24]deb.devuan.org in their sources.list file, e.g.:"02:37
adhocthat explains some weirdness too...02:37
golinuxadhoc: https://git.devuan.org/devuan?tab=&sort=recentupdate&q=amprolla02:49
golinuxThere is a reason for that advice which is not weird and could save you from a reinstall . . .02:50
adhocI ahve been doing some work around proxying my repo access to reduce the outbound traffic02:52
adhocamprolla, news to me02:54
* adhoc reads02:54
brocashelmit's genius02:57
adhocok ...02:58
adhocgolinux: so why would any one want to use this, outside of a distro maintainer?02:58
golinuxadhoc: Exactly. "amprolla is an apt repository merger originally intended for use with the Devuan infrastructure."03:12
golinuxAnd it needs to be used in sources.list in order to update/upgrade a devuan installation properly.03:15
adhocno mention of snmpd in there03:22
adhocit fails to install in the post-installation step03:23
adhocis required for package frr-snmp03:23
adhocwhich I believe I need for the frr stack to work properly03:23
adhocthe post-install barfs on creating a user03:24
adhocwith a home directory of; SNMP_DIR="/var/lib/snmp"03:24
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=snmpd&x=submit03:24
golinuxSo install it!03:25
adhocit fails on teh post install step03:25
fsmithredlooks like it installed here ok03:26
adhoc ls -al /var/lib/snmp03:26
adhoctotal 1203:26
adhocdrwxr-xr-x  3 Debian-snmp Debian-snmp 4096 Apr 11 10:35 .03:26
golinuxSorry Can't help with that. I'm the librarian . . .03:26
adhocso the user Debian-snmp ...03:26
adhoc# grep snmp /etc/passwd03:26
adhocDebian-snmp:x:107:112::/var/lib/snmp:/bin/false03:26
adhochmm03:27
adhocfsmithred: wondering if this is devuan specific, or a debian problem03:27
fsmithredare you running chimaera?03:27
adhocyes03:27
fsmithredme too03:28
adhocupgraded from 3.003:28
fsmithreddrwxr-xr-x  2 root root 4096 Jan  5  201903:28
fsmithredI did get a warning on install...03:28
fsmithredWarning: The home dir /nonexistent you specified can't be accessed: No such file or directory03:28
fsmithredgot that after it added group frr03:29
fsmithredI have no user or group with snmp in the name03:31
fsmithredI installed snmp and frr-snmp. adhoc did you do something different?03:32
fsmithredand I installed without Recommends03:32
adhocdecided to drop frr-snmp and will see if I can do everything I neeed to with out it for now03:37
adhocfsmithred: snmp would be nice, but will deal with it later =)03:37
adhocfsmithred: would be good to undertand why it fails to start, but it is not throwing errors when you start it on the command line, but silently fails =(03:42
fsmithredadhoc, what are you trying to run?03:45
fsmithredit comes with a bunch of commands03:45
fsmithred(I don't know what any of them are or what snmp is.)03:45
adhocApr 11 10:44:55 adldcns03 snmpd[9732]: Error opening specified endpoint "[::1]"03:45
adhocApr 11 10:44:55 adldcns03 snmpd[9732]: Server Exiting with code 103:45
adhocah03:45
fsmithredwhere'd you get snmpd?03:46
adhocI wonder if this is a box I have disabled IPv6 on?03:46
fsmithredoh03:46
adhocnet.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6 = 103:46
adhocnet.ipv6.conf.eth0.disable_ipv6 = 103:46
fsmithredI didn't install that package. Just snmp03:46
adhocfrom /etc/sysctl.conf03:47
adhocsome things are so fragile03:47
fsmithredadduser: Warning: The home directory `/var/lib/snmp' does not belong to the user you are currently creating.03:47
fsmithredI got that warning installing snmpd03:47
adhocfsmithred: yes, I get that too, but it then installs anyway03:47
fsmithredsnmpd is running.03:48
adhocnow I remember, I had to enable IPv6, reboot, install ...03:48
adhocsome services are so fragile03:49
adhocbecause everyone runs IPv603:49
adhoceven though lots of ipv6 traffic causes shitty appliances on the network to crash =/03:50
adhocfsmithred: mystery solved03:51
adhocfsmithred: thanks for your help03:51
fsmithredcool03:51
fsmithredyw03:51
adhocnext problem; get kubernetes running smoothly03:51
fsmithredso now that I have it installed and running, what can I do with it. (in 25 words or less, please)03:51
adhocoh, you can query the snmp service to get status information, collect that in monitoring apps for service history03:52
adhocfor example, on switches, NIC stats, throughput in each direction, packet errors, etc03:53
adhocuseful when doing capacity planning03:53
fsmithredthanks03:53
adhocespecially when you need to prepare a report for management, "we need to upgrade" because "interfaces running at 90+% across the working day" and "staff complaining network is 'slow'"03:54
adhocetc03:54
adhocsimple network monitoring protocol03:54
adhocnow for my next error to fix for exim;  2022-03-28 13:55:49 socket bind() to port 25 for address ::1 failed: Cannot assign requested address: daemon abandoned03:55
adhocI see what I did there ...  >.>03:55
ddsyswhat folder do i create a service in?04:15
fsmithredscripts are in /etc/init.d04:15
ddsysthx04:16
ddsysfsmithred: what is the command to start the service04:25
XenguySomething like:  service <service> start05:02
XenguyOh he's gone05:03
* Xenguy shrugs05:03
adhocfsmithred: so if you enable IPv6 and install frr-snmp and snmpd, it just works (TM)05:11
adhoc=/05:11
adhocnow to move other network appliances off to another subnet05:13
Kingsysorry I missed a message in here. is there logging?14:40
humpelstilzchen[The link in the topic might have a log14:53
ddsyscant seem to start a service. always says down. can some help me create service?16:31
ddsysrunit16:31
fsmithredddsys, what service?16:49
ddsysit can be any service. i just need to know where to create it and start it16:50
fsmithredI have to check notes. One minute.16:50
ddsysthanks16:51
fsmithredyou have some runscripts in a directory named after the service?16:51
fsmithredcopy that dir to /etc/sv/16:52
ddsysi have runscript in /etc/init.d16:52
fsmithredif the service is using a sysvinit script, stop it.16:52
fsmithredthen run 'update-service --add /etc/sv/<service-name>16:53
fsmithred /etc/init.d is where the sysvinit scripts are16:53
ddsysso i dont want /etc/initd if im using runit?16:54
fsmithredyeah, you do16:54
ddsysoh16:54
fsmithredin debian/devuan runit uses sysvinit scripts by default16:54
ddsysok16:54
fsmithredexcept for the gettys and a few other things16:54
fsmithredbut you can switch to runit scripts16:55
fsmithredhttps://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=371616:55
fsmithredand there are sources for scripts from the runit maintainer, from antix and a couple other places.16:55
ddsysfsmithred: thanks for your help i will try your update-service command16:56
fsmithredlook through the discussion I posted16:56
fsmithredalso be aware that void linux and some other sources of info might say to put things in different directories. Modify those instructions to fit the debian/devuan locations.16:58
ddsysfsmithred: yes i noticed different sources says to use diff directories17:05
ddsysi was able to add service but still down17:06
fsmithredddsys, what service, and can you paste your runscript at paste.debian.net?17:20
ddsyspaste.debian.net/123760017:23
ddsysit prevents staircase effect on shutdown17:24
ddsysi had the script working but i want it as a service so i can learn17:24
ddsysi put script in /etc/sv/staircase/run17:28
ddsysthen update-service --add /etc/sv/staircase17:28
ddsysthen sv up staircase and then sv status staircase but still says down17:29
fsmithredwhat is the script supposed to do?17:30
fsmithredand why sudo? system scripts are run as root17:31
ddsyshave you ever heard of staircase effect?17:31
ddsysoh ok about sudo17:31
fsmithredno17:31
ddsyson shutdown the messages are all zigzagged17:32
ddsysinstead of in a straight column17:32
ddsysmost people dont care but im trying to learn17:33
fsmithredI'm not the best person to be helping with managing services, but that seems like something that doesn't need to be running all the time. Just at shutdown.17:34
ddsyslightdm causes it17:34
systemdletefsmithred:  I made a typo at the end of the refracta 11 refractainstall script at the point where it asks which device (not devices) to install the bootloader (which I thought I had already answered the question before, idk).  Anyway, I was able to reboot but the resolution is awful.  Are the radeon drivers on the refracta ISO also?17:34
ddsysneeds at startup foe some reason17:35
fsmithredsystemdlete, firmware-amd-graphics should be in the firmware dir17:35
systemdleteIs that the only package I will need?17:35
fsmithredI hope so17:35
systemdleteok, thanks17:36
fsmithredno network?17:36
fsmithredddsys, I don't know how to help, but if you poke around the forum and look at the discussions about runit, you will learn a lot. The debian runit maintainer sometimes posts on those threads.17:37
ddsysok thx17:37
systemdletefsmithred:  I still think the installer should be slightly more robust, and less confusing with the grub steps.17:38
fsmithredno shit17:38
systemdleteI'm not trying to give you shit, honest.17:38
systemdleteJust some (hopefully) constructive feedback.17:38
fsmithredyeah, I am agreeing with you.17:38
systemdleteI know.17:38
fsmithredI think I changed the button label in the last version from 'copy files' to 'install bootloader'17:39
systemdleteother than that, the install was pretty quick and easy.17:39
systemdlete"button" -- I didn't see many buttons, just numbered prompts.17:39
systemdlete(did I invoke the installer incorrectly?)17:40
systemdleteAlso, I note that the installer did not seem to be available on the desktop.17:40
systemdleteI thought it was the last refracta release17:40
systemdleteBut using my brain, I figured out to invoke "refractainstaller" right from the cmd line17:40
fsmithredrefractainstaller gives you the cli script, refractainstaller-yad gives you the graphical version.17:45
fsmithredit's in the menu under System17:45
Atari-FroschTIL: After reboot of my server that – besides other services – runs a Jitsi instance, Jitsi didn't accept any connections. Reason: prosody. With the reboot it was started using service, not prosodyctl. Killed the process (stopping by service didn't work), restarted with prosodyctl, my Jitsi is back.18:57
Atari-FroschServer runs with Devuan Beowulf.18:59
Atari-Frosch(Yeah, I know, I should update.)18:59
brocashelmif someone is on ceres and decided to switch back to stable, would it make sense to switch to daedalus (testing) and tough it out until it's stable? so as to not have to go through reinstalling and restoring/fixing configs all over again22:51
gnarfacedowngrading isn't a supported action by upstream22:53
gnarfacei tried it once and it appeared to work at first but subsequent updates tore the install apart22:54
gnarfaceymmv but i'd advise doing a backup and reinstall; it'll actually be faster by a lot22:54
gnarfacelots of configs aren't gonna be compatible anymore either with older versions22:55
gnarfaceso even if your package dependency tree isn't corrupted you're still probably in for approximately the same amount of manual config restoration22:56
gnarfacehowever, at some point recently i probably would have said daedalus and ceres are still close enough that you might succeed in that plan - i don't know if that's the case still22:57
gnarfacethere was a point shortly after daedalus was first cut that they were almost identical22:58
gnarfacemaybe someone else around here would have a better idea if that's the case but a minimal install only takes half an hour or so22:58
rwpGoing from Unstable to Stable is basically everything gnarface said.  Going from Unstable to Testing probably is not as bad.23:00
rwpI suggest installing apt-show-versions, configuring both ceres and Testing, and seeing how different they are from each other using apt-show-versions.23:00
gnarfacehmm, interesting plan23:00
fsmithredbrocashelm, I've done it, and if you time it right, it's no problem.23:00
fsmithredsince bookworm has not frozen yet, you will be safe23:01
fsmithredjust change sources to daedalus, and you will get the same updates you've been getting, only a week later.23:01
fsmithredgoing to chimaera would be a major pain in the ass. You have to play with pin priorities (1001 on chimaera)23:02
fsmithredand cross your fingers23:02
fsmithredand have some installation media on hand for when you're done playing23:02
rwpThere are two categories for differences.  The 10 day waiting period for migration from Unstable to Testing.  Packages stuck from migration due to RC bugs logged against them preventing migration but where Unstable keeps moving.23:03
fsmithredyou could keep a line for ceres and pin it low so that you only get stuff from ceres if you ask for it.23:05
rwpI think any downgrade that includes glibc, which would almost certainly include a long list of other libs too, would be REALLY HARD.  Technically possible.  But much easier and much more reliable to reinstall.23:05
fsmithredhe doesn't need to downgrade at this point23:06
fsmithredjust wait23:06
rwp":51 <brocashelm> if someone is on ceres and decided to switch back to stable..."  Sounded to me like Stable was the target.  :-(23:06
fsmithredyeah, that was his first thought.23:06
fsmithredthat would be bad.23:06
fsmithredbut his current ceres will soon be daedalus23:07
rwpI totally agree that moving from Ceres to Testing would be very easy, no problem, no muss, no fuss.23:07
fsmithredbrocashelm, what's the issue? Is something broken, or are you just tired of all the updates?23:07
brocashelmceres works fine for me and i'm fine with updating. i was just curious about turning one of my machines into daedalus instead so that it'd soon turn to stable23:36
brocashelmonly packages i have held back right now are for elogind (four of them), but that will be fixed soon23:37
brocashelmand, yeah, daedalus is still close to ceres23:38
brocashelmi just figured it'd be a matter of giving it time for packages to switch to their daedalus counterparts once there are newer versions than the ones you got from ceres23:38
rwpbrocashelm, It's really no problem at all for your migration plan from Ceres to Daedalus.  Easy.  No worries at all.23:43
brocashelmnice. i figured that would be simple enough. i just wanted to be sure, in case i plan on going back to stable (again, having zero problems with ceres in the two years i've been running it as my daily driver, and i update all the time)23:48

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