libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2022-04-12

rwpbrocashelm, The release cycle is young yet.  Plenty of time left for problems! :-)01:15
brocashelmguess i'm staying on ceres :D01:21
rwpAfter all of this dialog you are going to stay the course? :-)  Or just say that you can change from Ceres to Testing at any time you want, because you are not addicted. :-)01:24
XenguyIs anyone here seeding the 'devuan_chimaera' torrent?  If so, can you tell me the size of said file?01:24
XenguyI'm just trying to confirm the file size01:25
brocashelmrwp: we'll see. if i'm switching, i'm definitely going the daedalus (before freeze) route01:29
brocashelmi don't mind the updates :)01:30
systemdletefsmithred:  There is a package listed in the packages list called "firmware-linux-free" but I don't see a deb file for it.  I have mounted /dev/sdc1 (my thumbdrive with the refracta 11 ISO image) and did a find for anything that looks like *firmware* and it comes up bupkas.03:43
systemdleteI am sure I don't understand what is going on.03:43
systemdleteI suspect I need a network connection to do this...03:45
gnarfaceit should be in the repos03:48
gnarfacehttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=firmware-linux-free&x=submit03:49
systemdletegnarface: fsmithred said it was in the firmware directory.03:49
gnarfacewell it's a package but all the firmware does go in /lib/firmware and you can easily just copy files in there instead03:50
systemdletewhen they said "directory" I thought they meant in an ISO directory03:50
gnarfaceoh, i'm not sure where in the actual directory structure of the iso that would be03:50
systemdleteit doesn't appear to be anywhere on the ISO.  find /mnt -name '*firmware*' comes up with nothing03:51
rrqas a live iso it might have a squasfs wit a root filestructure, and then possibly the firmware package is on that03:56
gnarfaceoh, yea you might need to open up the initrd.img03:57
systemdletenvm.  I got my network connection working... so now it is "easy"04:00
systemdletehmmm.  the package is already installed04:01
systemdleteso what I was trying to do is install the radeon driver(s) for the video card.  Right now I am getting very low res04:02
systemdletelike 640 or 72004:02
systemdletethe display options don't offer anything over 72004:02
systemdleteanyone have a suggestion on how to get higher res?   iirc, it's pretty straight forward, but I can't remember the package fu04:27
gnarfacesystemdlete: now that you'll need non-free for; the package name is  firmware-amd-graphics04:53
gnarfacesystemdlete: (to get anything other than max res working you'll also need a boatload of mesa libraries too long for me to itemize by memory)04:53
systemdletegnarface:  Installing that package solved it.  I haven't tried any intermediate resolutions; I usually only use the highest anyway.06:58
systemdletethank you for the help07:21
gnarfaceno problem07:24
systemdletefsmithred:  So I changed the name of the default user from "user" to "tester" and everything has gone downhill.   I sort of liked the way the autologin gives me 6 tty's with my user already logged in.  But I don't like the name "user" and besides, I'm going to be restoring some stuff I created for beowulf and it will be easier if I don't have to change the user name everywhere.08:54
systemdleteI had to create a temporary other user, disable the autologin, and then reboot and change the user info in passwd, group and also under /home (rename directory to tester)08:55
systemdleteBut now the autologin no longer works.  I get a blank screen with the browser (because I had it open when I last shutdown) but no desktop, panels, etc.08:56
systemdleteI wonder why so much merchandise got damaged when all I did was change the name of the user.  I didn't modify and user IDs or group IDs08:57
systemdletes/and/any/09:01
systemdletedoes the refracta installer allow me to choose the name of my user, and maybe I missed it?09:02
braddYou could always add another user09:04
systemdletethat's what I did ^^09:04
systemdleteAdding another user permanently would mean the user id and group id would change and I'd have similar problems restoring files.09:04
braddoh, i see. kind of odd it didnt ask you during the install09:05
braddusermod may have worked better?09:06
systemdleteYes I used usermod to do this in fact09:10
systemdletebradd, the installer quit before I was done (I think).  I made a typo and it crashed out.  It was in the last part where it was asking about grub stuff09:11
systemdleteI'm thinking the part where it would prompt for a user name might come after that, but idk.  I'm not very familiar with refractainstaller09:12
systemdleteI am thinking of starting over...09:15
braddI dont have many suggestions.. maybe the 'autologin' thing needs the default user name set in the configs somewhere?09:16
systemdleteIt does by default in refracta09:16
systemdleteOr, actually09:16
systemdleteyou get a choice during install.  I chose autologin09:16
braddmaybe /etc/inittab is the place to set the user name09:19
systemdleteI've updated /etc/inittab.  The trouble seems to be in the desktop login mechanism.09:21
systemdleteI've been combing through the X logs and xfce and lxdm log09:24
braddhow about /etc/lxdm/lxdm.conf ?09:25
systemdleteWhat about it?  The only line I've ever modified in that file was the autologin.09:29
braddthats what i meant. did you set that line to your new user name?09:29
systemdleteof course09:29
braddcuz thats all i got. maybe someone else can help more09:29
systemdleteAnd it does start to work.  The problem is that the desktop does not start up (panels, background, etc) and the mouse does nothing.  No context menu on desktop09:30
gnarfacethis has come up before but i still forget what the trick is10:08
gnarfacethere might be config files in ~user/10:08
gnarfacestuff relevant to the desktop environment10:09
rrqsystemdlete: if you've renamed the home directory for the new user, you might want to put a link /home/user to it since more than a few of the desktop configurations files uses the old home path10:11
systemdleterrq:  thanks.  But I solved it by "grep -r /home/user" and just edited whatever needed be.  Also got rid of .cache10:37
systemdleteIt's working again, with my desired user name.10:37
systemdleteNow I will have to do the same for my other system when the time comes...10:38
systemdletethe /etc directory is 775.  gufw complains it should be 755.  Again, this is refracta 1110:46
ddsyswhat init system is most popular on devuan?15:15
Xenguyddsys, sysvinit I assume15:20
Xenguygotta run, have fun15:21
ddsysok. i thought runit was15:21
Xenguyrunit is supported, give it a whirl15:21
ddsysi did :)15:21
ddsysbut i like sysvinit to15:21
XenguyI just never saw a reason to not use it, but perhaps one day I'll try another15:22
Xenguybye for now15:22
ddsysbye15:22
fsmithredsystemdlete, I don't know where the 775 on /etc is coming from. I've check a few systems on hardware, in VM and in live-isos. Some are one way and some are the other. I even have two systems initially installed by the same live-iso, and they are different.20:16
fsmithredbtw, searching for "/home/user" in the hidden files and changing it is the right fix. Normally the installer will do that for you if you change the user name, but I guess you bailed out before that.20:17
systemdleteIt's just gufw complaining, and only on chimaera.  This is the first time I've ever encountered this complaint from gufw.20:17
systemdleteok, thanks.20:18
fsmithredwell, I'm perplexed by it.20:18
fsmithredand I'm sure I didn't chmod /etc. Ever.20:18
systemdleteI know this is so simple, like Bourne Shell 101, but I am running into a huge loss of essential knowledge... maybe because I don't deal with shell much (I tend to do a lot of perl and other things).  Anyway, my question is:  How do I set an envar so that the X11 environment will pick it up?   I am using autologin, so there is no chance that my .bashrc or .bash_profile (or even .profile) will be read in before the desktop starts.20:20
systemdleteStrangely, this has always worked -- somehow! -- on beowulf and prior, but I can't seem to coerce chimaera to do it.20:21
systemdleteI'm looking at /etc/environment, but I think that will only work if PAM runs during the autologin process.20:21
fsmithredI put stuff in ~/.bashrc20:22
systemdleteThere is XDG and its environment but I don't set that anywhere that I can see in my beowulf environment.20:22
systemdleteI have the envars I want set in my .bashrc, but they don't seem to get picked up by the desktop environment--there is a graphical program that needs to read this variable.20:23
systemdleteI almost wish there were a way to run some utility on *nix systems to trace where and how an envar gets set.20:24
fsmithredyeah, my vars are for doing stuff in terminal20:24
fsmithred(building packages)20:24
fsmithredyou tried exporting and not just setting them?20:25
systemdleteHas something major changed between beowulf and chimaera in terms of the desktop environments?   Like, for example, maybe something to do with how our old nemesis works and non-systemd systems just won't know about it?20:27
systemdlete(yes they are exported)20:27
systemdlete(I can see them in my terminals)20:27
systemdleteI think I can set them in the desktop file for the program, but I have not done that in beowulf.  Again, this is driving me nuts!20:28
hagbardThe brutal way would be to wrap the program in an on-liner skript, that sets the environment variable for just that one programm.20:29
systemdleteYes, indeed, that would work.   I've thought of doing it in the startup script for the program, which is in /usr/bin or another system bin.20:30
systemdleteBut, again, I did not have to do this for beowulf, yet it magically works there and not on chimaera.20:30
hagbard /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ might also be worth to have a look into, not sure. But it seems at a first glance several environment variables for the x session are set in there.20:32
hagbardsystemdlete: .xsessionrc is the right place for this20:34
hagbardjust remembered where i'm setting several environment variables for different appplications20:35
systemdletehagbard:  Thank you for that info.  I will try that.  But, again, I am not using such file in beowulf...20:39
systemdleteI see that I can insert "env MYVAR=value commandname args..." in the .desktop file for the program, and that works.  But the difficulty is that it won't be portable with an update to the system copy of the file.   I won't get the update to the system version in my local version.20:41
systemdleteAnd it won't work from the system menu of course, since that version doesn't get modified.20:42
hagbardthats why you'd set it for the whole x-session20:42
hagbardJust a wikld guess: maybe in þe olden times you had bash as /bin/sh instead of dash, so that one of your bash config files had been read20:44
rwp+1 for ~/.xsessionrc being the place for user environment variables for X that happens *under* things before bash starts a shall and can read the ~/.bashrc file.20:47
systemdletedid not work either.20:47
systemdletehagbard:  What do you mean?20:48
systemdleteI'm using chimaera from a refracta install.  It sets up lxdm--could that have something to do with it?20:49
fsmithredmaybe20:49
systemdleteMaybe I need some sort of .lxenvironment or the like20:49
rwpsystemdlete, Exactly what problem are you having?  You said "an environment variable" is no longer getting picked up?20:51
systemdleteright20:52
systemdleteI've tried setting in my .bashrc, but that does not seem to work20:52
rwpThe place to look is the /etc/X11/Xsession script.  Walk through what it does to see how things work.20:52
systemdlete(on chimaera, not sure how it has been able to work on beowulf, ascii, etc)20:52
rwpI have not noticed any changes of significance myself between Beowulf and Chimaera but I might not be tickling whatever it is that you are tickling.20:52
systemdleteShouldn't there be some rather generic way to do this though?20:52
fsmithredsystemdlete, look in ~/.dmrc20:53
systemdleteah, thanks fsmithred20:53
rwpsystemdlete, The .bashrc file definitely cannot do it as bash is not involved in the X startup sequence.20:54
systemdleteit just says "[Desktop]\nSession=default" that is it20:54
systemdleterwp:  Apparently so.  I must have done something else for beowulf and prior20:54
gnarfaceon beowulf with lightdm and kde i did actually notice here that it was no longer inheriting variables as expected from ~/.bashrc and ~/.bash_profile20:54
gnarfaceseems to have been a change just in certain desktop environments or session managers20:55
gnarfacei forget exactly what i did with that one, i think maybe just added the ~/.bash_profile to the kde launch programs20:55
rwpI will only ask if /bin/sh was previously a symlink to /bin/bash but is now (and has been for me) pointing to /bin/dash?20:55
rwpBecause if it was a symlink to bash before then that would get bash stuff like .bashrc involved.20:56
rwpReading through /etc/X11/Xsession will show how things work.  It's a /bin/sh script.  Which sources a variety of other files.  Including an optional ~/.xsessionrc file.  Making it the best place for generic X configuration.20:57
systemdleterwp:  I tried setting it in .xsessionrc and then rebooting.  no go20:59
systemdlete(but I agree that would seem to be ideal)20:59
rwpSince this seems to be something specific to your system then it will be something that only you can debug.20:59
systemdletegnarface: Thank you.  That is the kind of thing I am suspecting.21:00
rwpMaybe the mystery something you are trying to set is getting unset or overwritten.  Try setting a proxy variable near it and see if it is propagated.21:00
systemdleterwp:  Not necessarily though; see gnarface's comments above21:00
systemdletesetting envars for graphical programs launched from within a desktop environment seems like a foolish approach in the first place (except in the case where one is debugging from the command line where the program supports them).  I don't know why they don't allow for a config file like most other tools out there.21:02
systemdleteI'm asking now in the support channel for the program.21:03
systemdletebbl; thanks again21:03
systemdlete(lunch)21:03
rwpsystemdlete, If it is something for a particular program then I would suggest launching it with a wrapper script.  Have the wrapper script set up the environment before calling the program.22:04

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