systemdlete | sometime back, I installed beowulf to my laptop. I'm pretty sure I asked here about the power saver and I ended up disabling it. I just don't recall now what I did. | 18:17 |
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systemdlete | I do see that tlp is not installed; I am wondering if I just removed tlp. | 18:18 |
systemdlete | Anyway, the laptop is running down on power within a few hours. This might be due to the overall crumminess of the device, or it might be because I disabled the power saver. | 18:18 |
systemdlete | Istr that the issue then was that the wifi was constantly quitting on me and the suggestion (I think it was) here was to disable power saver. | 18:20 |
systemdlete | I want to try re-enabling the power saver again, but I don't know if simply installing tlp will accomplish that, or if I need to tweak other things also. | 18:20 |
systemdlete | when I go to re-install tlp, it wants to install about 20 packages (most of which I am pretty sure I don't want). | 18:22 |
systemdlete | e.g., it wants to install network-manager, but I already have wicd working just fine. | 18:23 |
rwp | systemdlete, I run tlp on my main Thinkpad laptop. I look and see "Depends: init-system-helpers (>= 1.18~), lsb-base, hdparm, iw | wireless-tools, pciutils, rfkill, usbutils" | 18:24 |
rwp | Those don't seem unreasonable to have on a mobile device. But of course if one is not using a laptop mobile then many of those will seem unwanted. | 18:25 |
rwp | tlp is mostly a summary-package that does a bunch of things that it thinks is helpful. All of which a local admin might do themselves. | 18:26 |
rwp | It is certainly possible to examine what tlp does and then do those things that you wish yourself outside of its framework. | 18:27 |
systemdlete | "apt install tlp" wants to install: dns-root-data dnsmasq-base libbluetooth3 libcpupower1 libjim0.77 libmbim-glib4 | 18:50 |
systemdlete | libmbim-proxy libmm-glib0 libndp0 libnm0 libqmi-glib5 libqmi-proxy libteamdctl0 | 18:50 |
systemdlete | linux-cpupower modemmanager network-manager ppp tlp tlp-rdw usb-modeswitch | 18:50 |
systemdlete | usb-modeswitch-data | 18:50 |
systemdlete | (sorry for spamming; I thought it was one line) | 18:51 |
rwp | The global bot didn't trigger so you scraped in under the wire. :-) | 18:51 |
rwp | Hmm... I definitely do not have network-manager installed. Makes me wonder if my older version is better than the newer version. If the newer version requires that. | 18:52 |
rwp | Do you have Recommends installed on by default? I always disable that too. Maybe try with --no-install-recommends or whatever "apt" uses for that override? | 18:53 |
rwp | Which perhaps might canonically be "apt -o APT::Install-Recommends=0 ..." maybe. | 18:55 |
systemdlete | rwp: Do you mean "suggested packages?" | 19:41 |
systemdlete | because that does display with the other info | 19:42 |
systemdlete | and those are NOT included in what is to be installed | 19:42 |
systemdlete | rwp: Here is what I see when I try to install tlp: https://pastebin.com/aTeXk9eL | 20:04 |
systemdlete | "apt info tlp: " https://pastebin.com/Aa8AU3J2 | 20:08 |
Jjp137 | systemdlete, recommends are being treated as dependencies on your system (which is the default) | 20:09 |
Jjp137 | one of the recommends for tlp is tlp-rdw | 20:09 |
Jjp137 | tlp-rdw depends on network-manager | 20:09 |
Jjp137 | thus that also gets pulled in | 20:09 |
systemdlete | so rwp's suggestion, above, --no-install-recommendds | 20:10 |
Jjp137 | yeah something like that | 20:10 |
systemdlete | crud spelling | 20:10 |
systemdlete | sorry | 20:10 |
systemdlete | well, the battery on the laptop went out on me about half an hour ago, so I am waiting for it to charge up again... | 20:10 |
systemdlete | (total piece of crap) | 20:10 |
systemdlete | perfect... thanks rwp, jjakob | 20:11 |
systemdlete | oops | 20:11 |
systemdlete | i meant, Jjp137 and rwp | 20:12 |
systemdlete | (gotta watch that completetion thingy) | 20:12 |
rwp | The Recommends are almost always too much for me. Which is why I always disable them. | 20:26 |
rwp | For example I can't imagine a need for dns-root-data and dnsmasq-base for a tlp installation. Yet I know that chasing through the cone of Recommends+Depends would locate the reason. | 20:26 |
rwp | I don't know about apt but with apt-get one can selectively deselect individual packages with a trailing '-' such as "apt-get install tlp network-manager-" and if it isn't a hard Depends breaking the cone of dependencies then that solution will be used. | 20:28 |
rwp | But doing that is very tedious and somewhat error prone. | 20:28 |
jjakob | I always add APT::Install-Suggests "0"; APT::Install-Recommends "0"; to apt.conf.d | 21:40 |
jjakob | on ubuntu, debian, devuan | 21:40 |
jjakob | when installing I see what it recommends/suggests and look up the descriptions of packages, if I want any I install them later | 21:41 |
jjakob | Jjp137: systemdlete: rwp: | 21:42 |
Hanicef | jjakob: i would recommend to keep at least recommends activated, as some applications might have some functionality disabled without all recommended packages | 21:47 |
jjakob | I would know then it's missing some recommended package and go look for it and install it | 21:47 |
jjakob | I trust I'm competent enough to do that | 21:48 |
rwp | jjakob, Me too! | 21:56 |
rwp | The problem is that maintainers can put anything they wish into Recommends without oversight. Some with good recommends. Some with very egregious ones. | 21:58 |
rwp | Which creates situations such as the above where installing a laptop power management pulls in network-manager! WAT?! | 21:59 |
fsmithred | I like to disable recommends, but before I install anything I run 'aptitude -s install <stuff>' and it show which packages are recommended but won't be installed. Then I can add any that I want when I do the real install. | 22:02 |
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