| msiism | I've finally made it to Chimaera. The uppgrade went smooth and everyhting seems to work as excepted, except for font rendering in X. | 15:12 |
|---|---|---|
| msiism | I've had issues with this after the upgrade to Beowulf as well, but this time it seems to be a hinting issue. | 15:12 |
| msiism | I'v prepared a small comparision image (Beowulf on top, Chimaera below): https://www.msiism.org/fd/chimaera_fonts_issue/beowulf_chimaera_x_fonts_comparison.png | 15:13 |
| msiism | The issue here is that the letter spacing is weirdly off. | 15:13 |
| msiism | I've tried playing with fontconfig a bit, but to no avail. Thouch when I disable hinting completely, letter spacing goes back to normal. But then text is blurry as well. | 15:15 |
| msiism | Words containg "o" are especially bad. "root" looks more like "ro ot". | 15:18 |
| msiism | Okay, not all occurences of "o" are bad, actually. It's just weirdly off. | 15:19 |
| fsmithred | hi msiism | 15:21 |
| fsmithred | I'm not seeing that in chimaera or daedalus | 15:22 |
| fsmithred | what desktop are you using? | 15:22 |
| msiism | Hi. I'm using just Openbox plus a bunch of stuff. | 15:22 |
| fsmithred | xfce here | 15:23 |
| msiism | The wird thing is, it seems this des not occur strictly everywhere. | 15:23 |
| fsmithred | where do you see it happen | 15:23 |
| fsmithred | ? | 15:23 |
| msiism | In PCManFM, the Openbox root menu, menu bars in GUI applications. | 15:23 |
| msiism | But, e.g., the bookmarks toolbar in Firefox seems to be just fine. | 15:24 |
| fsmithred | I think firefox does its own thing with fonts | 15:25 |
| msiism | Probably. | 15:25 |
| msiism | Qt and GTK applications are affected just the same, as far as I can tell. | 15:26 |
| fsmithred | ...booting chimaera VM with openbox | 15:27 |
| fsmithred | hm, maybe not chimaera | 15:27 |
| msiism | I'm using `FREETYPE_PROPERTIES='truetype:interpreter-version=35'`, by the way. | 15:27 |
| msiism | This is the older rendering method. | 15:28 |
| msiism | I had to use this to keep fonts readable when I upgraded to Beowulf. | 15:28 |
| msiism | And turning that off makes things way worse. | 15:28 |
| msiism | I'm not sure I was seeing the same problem on any Chimaera live system I've tested. | 15:30 |
| msiism | But that was only on my laptop, I think. | 15:30 |
| msiism | I could try a live version on this machine and see. | 15:30 |
| fsmithred | I think my chimaera looks normal | 15:33 |
| msiism | Okay, thanks. | 15:33 |
| msiism | I'll compare with a live system as soon as I get to it. | 15:34 |
| fsmithred | msiism, here's a screenshot for you to do a reality check. My eyes are not so good and I don't see much difference between your two examples. https://termbin.com/b0pc | 15:41 |
| msiism | How do I get the PNG there? | 15:42 |
| msiism | It just shows "PNG" and some weird characters for me. | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | oops. forgot that termbin only works with text files | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | sorry | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | one minute... | 15:53 |
| fsmithred | msiism, https://transfer.sh/rb7T9A/Screenshot_2022-06-08_09-39-29.png | 15:55 |
| msiism | Thanks. | 15:57 |
| msiism | Okay, that looks alright. | 15:58 |
| msiism | I mean, I'm not seeing any of those problems with monospaced fonts. | 15:58 |
| gnarface | msiism: they've changed it on me before at least twice now, across which time i've changed from CRTs to LCDs so there's no way to get it back to the way it used to look. all i could do is try to get it to just look like what seems right. try this to see if it helps: from "dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config" set hinting type to Native, subpixel rendering to Automatic, bitmaps to false, and hinting style to full (some | 16:30 |
| gnarface | changes to the way i used to have it after the first change but looks more "correct" on my LCDs even if it doesn't quite look the same as it used to) | 16:30 |
| gnarface | you might have to restart some programs, maybe even the whole desktop environment, though some stuff might also take the changes immediately | 16:31 |
| msiism | Okay, let's see. I think I've tried those setting already, but I'll try them again. | 16:45 |
| msiism | gnarface: Hm… unfortunately, this doesn't yield any imporvements, but also doesn't make anything worse. | 16:47 |
| gnarface | msiism: did you try to see if reloading X changes any of it? | 16:48 |
| gnarface | you're not supposed to have to, but i seem to recall having to | 16:49 |
| msiism | I just start a new X server on another TTY. | 16:49 |
| msiism | This way, I'll see the whole thing with the new configuration. | 16:50 |
| msiism | Maybe somehting in DejaVu changed, who knows? | 16:50 |
| msiism | I should probably try a few different fonts for GUI applications. | 16:50 |
| gnarface | i thought dejavu was supposed to be one of the "correct" ones but i am not using it here either | 16:53 |
| msiism | Well, it's Debian's standard. | 16:53 |
| gnarface | i know it's the default now but i still like Bitstream better | 16:54 |
| msiism | Okay, I'll test that. | 16:54 |
| gnarface | oh, something else semi-important: make sure Xorg has your dpi correct (check the log to see what it auto-detects and compare that to your official manufacturer's manual) | 16:55 |
| msiism | Okay, will do. | 16:55 |
| _ds_ | One thing which I make sure of is that RGB sub-pixel rendering is switched off. I just don't like it: I seem always able to pick out the differently-coloured edges (given a typical 1080p display). | 18:48 |
| _ds_ | Then again, I probably got spoiled somewhat years ago by the font rendering in RISC OS… | 18:49 |
| _ds_ | (where the calculated width of a given piece of text in a given style was fixed regardless of renderer configuration) | 18:50 |
| ham5urg | Is it possible to install every deb (which comes after debootstrap) under a directory like '/pkgs'? Similar to bsd or guix. | 23:50 |
| gnarface | easy thing with rebuilt packages | 23:51 |
| gnarface | i seem to recall there might have been another way to override paths without rebuilding them but don't remember what | 23:51 |
| ham5urg | I will check the override | 23:53 |
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