libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2022-06-17

dbbsbtrfs-progs needs to be installed00:00
Afdalwuzzat00:00
dbbsalso I installed reiserprogs and reiser4progs... should I do reiserfs again... I always liked it00:00
dbbspresumably it's the btrfs programs?00:00
dbbs:V00:00
AfdalI've never used either of those file systems :'c00:00
dbbsI always had the best luck with reiserfs in the past00:00
dbbsI guess I'll blast from the past and install reiserfs.00:00
dbbsI don't think reiser4 was ever completely finished but I could be wrong00:01
dbbsdo I need to add a swap partition or does it use a swapfile like the installer prompted me to do...00:01
AfdalYou can use files as swap?00:02
AfdalNews to me...00:02
dbbsI dunno in the first screen of the installer there was a list of checkboxes and one said "use an existing swap partition instead of a swapfile"00:02
dbbsI'll make a swap partition to be safe00:02
Afdalprobably best...00:03
Afdalas long as it's not your SSD00:03
dbbsnow it's wanting to reformat my reiserfs partition as ext400:03
dbbs:(00:04
dbbsI guess I don't have any choice of what file system to use00:08
dbbseven for my /home partition00:08
gnarfacedid you grab the reiserfs package from the "load additional installer components?" if it's not there anymore then support may have been removed00:10
dbbswhere is load additional installer components00:10
dbbsthere's nothing on the desktop...00:11
dbbsdid afdal trick me by telling me to use the desktop installer00:11
dbbsI admit I hate using textual fdisk....00:11
dbbswhat if I checkbox do not format filesystems in the installation options00:12
dbbsit should be able to install to reiserfs if I do that rite...00:12
gnarfacewell which installer did you pick?00:12
dbbsthe desktop installer00:12
dbbsi think it's in an xfce4 live environment?00:12
gnarfaceoh, if it's the live one i'm not sure how you'd do it, but the netinstall one should have an expert mode option that gives you more flexiblity - that said, i haven't verified myself that it supported reiserfs for a few releases... i thought i remembered hearing it got removed00:13
dbbslet me see if checking "do not format filesystems. I'll handle it myself." in the graphical installer works as long as I have the paritions already formated to reiserfs. i'll let you know the results so if someone asks in the future it helps. (I did have to install reiserfsprogs with apt first to get it to let me format to reiserfs in gparted first.)00:15
gnarfaceyea the netinstaller should have a partitioning tool in both x11 and ncurses interfaces00:18
dbbsit appears to be working00:18
gnarfaceit at least used to support reiserfs in earlier versions, but you may have had to be in expert mode00:18
dbbsit's copying the system over fine00:18
dbbsJust had to install reiserfsprogs and select "do not format filesystems. I'll handle it myself." and select reiserfs in gparted?00:19
dbbsWe'll see if it boots lol00:19
gnarfaceshould be fine, reiserfs is still in the kernel in ceres00:19
dbbsok good00:19
dbbsthanks for the help00:19
dbbshopefully grub2 detects windows and I don't have to rescue it00:20
gnarfacethere usually isn't a problem as long as windows is on the first drive & partition00:20
dbbsyeah it is00:20
dbbsdid it install the bootloader to the wrong drive...00:23
gnarfaceyou might have to re-run grub-install to uninstall it00:24
gnarfacei think by default it probably puts grub on all drives (another one that you can change in expert mode, iirc)00:25
dbbsyeah it's not starting grub at al00:26
dbbsit's just going into windows like I didn't do anything...00:27
AfdalYou may need to pass a directory parameter to your grub-install line00:28
Afdalerr not directory00:29
Afdalbut the name of your EFI system partition00:29
dbbsgrub-install cannot find efi directory...00:38
dbbsHow do I find the name of my grub partition.00:38
dbbs:(00:38
dbbsdo you mean like00:38
dbbs /dev/xyz00:38
Afdalyeah like that00:38
dbbsoh ok00:38
dbbshold on00:38
Afdalwhat does your device mapper call it00:38
Afdalgparted is helpful for this00:39
dbbsyeah that's what I just used 2 seconds ago to find the name00:39
Afdalor you can just use uh00:39
Afdalblkid00:39
Afdalor umm00:40
Afdalno that's not what I'm thinking of00:40
dbbserror cannot find efi directory00:40
dbbsand I put the /dev/vnme0n1p1 in...00:40
gnarfacelsblk00:40
dbbsnvme00:40
gnarfacefor a efi machine you might need some package00:40
Afdalyeah lsblk00:40
dbbsany idea what some package is :V00:40
dbbsI've never done this complicated an install before outside of a server or gentoo...00:41
gnarfacei remember it had "efi" in the name00:41
dbbsoh and arch00:41
AfdalI'd be very surprised if he needed a special package00:41
Afdalalmost everyone is running an EFI setup these days00:41
AfdalThe only reason I'm still using MBR is because I have a WinXP partition00:42
dbbsalso this install didn't ask me what init system I wanted.. I wonder what it picked...00:42
Afdalit'll be sysvinit if you didn't get the option to choose00:42
dbbsok I'm not picky00:43
AfdalThat's what I ended up with when I did an install over ssh with my Devuan setup00:43
golinuxLive CD just copies file in the iso to your HD00:43
AfdalSeems only one of the installers actually asks which init you wanna use...00:43
golinuxInstall media are described here: https://www.devuan.org/get-devuan00:44
gnarfaceif you try it again with the netinstall it'll probably give you more options00:44
gnarfacelike a lot more00:44
dbbsyeah I read the descriptions00:44
rrqdbbs: you may need to go into the boot setup of your machine and configure it to recognize and use the Devuan boot option00:45
dbbsafdal told me what to install00:45
AfdalD:>00:45
dbbsI went to the bios and didn't see anything for devuan00:45
dbbs:/00:45
dbbsWill this work better if I just do the other installer00:45
dbbsI didn't think I'd already be mucking around with all these grubs00:45
dbbslol00:45
gnarfacewell at this point i'd just boot the livecd, chroot into the install and re-run the grub-install00:45
AfdalYeah I don't think your BIOS has any interest in what operating systems you have installed00:46
AfdalBIOS only cares about bootloaders00:46
AfdalBIOS manages the bootloaders, the bootloader manages your operating systems00:46
gnarfacewell, the bios may be able to force it to boot from the other drive though if grub is there, and then you could re-run the grub-install without chrooting00:46
rrqyour machine runs the UEFI bios, which somewhere keeps a list of its boot options. It may be trivial or not to get teh devuan option into it.00:46
dbbsI don't remember how to chroot and what speecific commands I'd have to do :( I thought this would be somewhat easy to install like debian or ubuntu or fedora and I wouldn't have systemd... or snap packages...00:46
dbbsI don't mind a text installer00:47
AfdalI can walk ya through chrooting00:47
gnarfacewell either way should work00:47
AfdalI've had to do my share of that00:47
gnarfacemount -o bind /sys ./chroot/sys00:47
gnarfacemount -o bind /proc ./chroot/proc00:47
rrqanything in the devuan installation only takes effect *after* you've got your UEFI system to recongize it00:47
dbbsit has "windows boot manager" "pop os" "fedora" "usb" and "ubuntu" (only windows is actually installed)00:48
gnarfacemount -o bind /dev ./chroot/dev00:48
gnarfacemount -o bind /dev/pts ./chroot/dev/pts00:48
gnarfacechroot ./chroot /bin/bash00:48
AfdalI've run endless chroots and grub-install commands in my adventures to get GRUB to recognize a LUKSv2 encrypted boot setup00:48
AfdalI just mount stuff in /mnt/00:49
AfdalWhat's the point of ./chroot/ gnarface00:49
dbbshmmmm00:50
dbbswell00:50
dbbswhich efi file do I want in my \EFI\debian folder00:51
dbbsshimx64 grubx64 mmx64 or fbx6400:51
gnarfacesorry presumably you'd have mounted the install drive in there already, Afdal, i left that step out00:51
Afdalehhh, I would let grub-install handle that dbbs00:52
gnarfacecan be any directory, most advisably an empty one you made yourself though00:52
dbbsI'm in my bios00:52
dbbsit's giving me those options00:52
dbbsI guess I'll try them down the list00:52
AfdalAre you trying to run binaries?00:52
gnarfacei dunno, i just remembered a thing about needing to change /efi/debian to /efi/devuan or visa-versa in some cases though and i don't remember the details00:52
dbbsi'm trying to set something in my bios so it will give me some kind of boot option00:53
dbbsshimx64 says failed to set seccond stage.00:53
Afdalhmm00:53
AfdalI think the typical name is grubx64.efi00:53
Afdalthe binary that your BIOS actually runs at boot time00:53
rrqdbbs: is there a manual "add option" ?00:53
dbbsthat just loads a grub terminal00:53
dbbsno00:54
dbbsI can change an existing option though00:54
Afdalis it regular grub or grub rescue terminal00:54
fsmithredare you using secure boot?00:54
dbbsno00:54
AfdalIf you're in the grub terminal then don't leave it yet00:54
dbbsI can go back to it00:54
Afdalsee if you can boot from the grub terminal00:54
dbbs:(00:54
dbbsI don't know how00:54
AfdalI can tell you00:54
Afdalit's not hard00:54
Afdaljust gotta remember...00:54
dbbsBut I have a terrible memory you know this :(00:55
Afdallsmod something or other...00:55
dbbsD:<00:55
AfdalI just wanna see if it boots first00:55
dbbssomething or other00:55
Afdalobviously you don't want to have to do this every time00:55
fsmithredset root=(hd... something00:55
fsmithredconfigfile /path/to/grub.cfg00:55
rrqpresumably devuan's efi boot has not got into the EFI partition. so you will indeed go back into the installer and deal with tht00:55
fsmithredalthough that might not work with uefi00:56
fsmithredif you chroot, you can just do grub-install and update-grub00:56
fsmithredor even dpkg-reconfigure grub00:56
dbbs:(00:56
Afdalare you in the grub rescue console00:56
dbbsnot yet00:57
gnarfaceoh, "dpkg-reconfigure grub" would be the better option, that one should give you an ncursess prompt with checkboxes for every drive partition00:57
dbbsnow I am00:57
Afdalokay uh00:57
Afdaltype lsmod first00:57
Afdalsee if you have any modules loaded00:57
fsmithredyou got a grub rescue prompt, or a grub prompt?00:57
dbbsI don't know the difference00:58
fsmithredlook at the words in the prompt00:58
AfdalIt'll say it's the rescue console if it us00:58
Afdalis00:58
dbbsI can reboot if you want me to go back00:58
fsmithrednot yet00:58
dbbsI can't exactyl scroll up and find out what it said at the start00:58
fsmithreddoes it say 'grub' or 'grub-rescue'00:58
dbbsgrub>00:58
Afdaloh okay00:58
fsmithredgood00:58
Afdaldo ls00:58
dbbsI did00:58
dbbsit gave me a giant list I can't scroll up on...00:59
Afdaldo regular ls00:59
Afdalnot lsmod00:59
fsmithredshift-pgup might work00:59
dbbsok00:59
dbbsI did ls00:59
Afdalbut that's good, that means you probably have all the modules you need available00:59
AfdalDo you see what look like your drive partitions?00:59
dbbsI see like00:59
Afdalthey'll have different games according to GRUB00:59
Afdalnames*00:59
dbbsproc hd0 hd0,msdos1 hd1 hd1 gpt1-701:00
Afdalproc?01:00
Afdalthat's odd...01:00
Afdalanyway01:00
dbbsis this going to break my computer01:00
Afdaldo ls (hd0,msdos1)01:00
Afdalthis is just a list command01:00
dbbsI know what ls is01:00
dbbs>:O01:00
dbbsI'm asking is doing all of this going to break my computer01:00
Afdalno01:00
Afdalwe need to find your Devuan partition01:01
gnarfaceit's just putting in a boot entry manually then booting from it, should be safe01:01
Afdaldo ls on those until you find the right one by its directory structure01:01
gnarfacehd0,msdos1 is probably the windows partition, i'd guess01:01
Afdalyeah01:01
dbbsthat's my hdd01:01
dbbsnot my nvme drive01:01
dbbsit's just a storage drive01:01
Afdalso hd1 then?01:01
dbbsyeah01:02
dbbsI assume so01:02
AfdalDo ls01:02
Afdaland see what they look like01:02
gnarfaceit's (drive,partition)01:02
Afdalyeah01:02
Afdalwhen you specify one of them it'll tell you what directories are in it01:02
dbbsit's saying other than the 2 ntfs drives that they are no known filesystem detected01:02
Afdalyou should be able to recognize the linux one from that01:02
dbbsprobably because I did reiserfs01:03
fsmithredand just to make it more interesting, drives are counted from 0 and paritions are counted from 101:03
gnarfacesee if you can load the reiserfs module01:03
dbbshow01:03
dbbs:V01:03
AfdalOh you might not have the reiserfs module loaded01:03
gnarfacechecking...01:03
Afdallet's see, what's that called...01:03
fsmithredinsmod reiserfs?01:03
gnarfaceinsmod reiserfs01:03
gnarfacei think01:03
dbbsfile not found01:03
dbbs>:(01:03
Afdalruh roh01:03
dbbsShould I just reinstall with btrf01:03
dbbsbtfs01:04
dbbsbtrfs*01:04
dbbs>:O01:04
Afdalyeah lol you'll need to get that module added when you run grub-install then01:04
fsmithredNO!!!01:04
dbbswhy no01:04
AfdalWell now we know what your problem is01:04
dbbs:(01:04
fsmithredyou can do btrfs with the live installer, but there are a couple of threads on the forum you need to study first.01:04
dbbsI'm okay with using btrfs01:04
AfdalYou'll need to go back to a live environment and get the module added to your EFI grub directory01:04
* gnarface doesn't want to give up on reiserfs01:04
dbbs>:O01:04
fsmithredsame here01:04
dbbsme either but01:04
fsmithredI think we can figure this out01:05
dbbsIf it will "just work" i would rather just... have it work01:05
gnarfacels /boot/grub/i386-pc/reiserfs.mod01:05
gnarface?01:05
gnarfacestill present on ceres, i would think this should be working01:05
dbbsarlsfolder not found01:05
dbbsthere's no /boot/grub/i386-pc folder01:06
gnarfacels (hd1,1) /boot/grub/i386-pc01:06
Afdalreiserfs.mod, yeah that's what it's called01:06
gnarfacels (hd1,1)/boot/grub/i386-pc01:06
gnarfacehmm, but without it already loaded it won't work01:06
fsmithred  /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/01:06
Afdalthat's only if he formatted his EFI system partition as ReiserFS too01:06
Afdalwhich uh, wouldn't load GRUB up at all if that were the case01:06
dbbsfile '/boot/grub/i386-pc' not foud01:07
Afdalbecause his BIOS certainly can't read ReiserFS01:07
fsmithredlook in /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/01:07
gnarfacewe sure we're not on some stale grub install on the old storage disk hd0?01:07
dbbsI don't know but this is getting way overcomplicated over my head and if I can just give in and use ext4 I'd much rather do that01:08
rrqthe EFI partition is a FAT partition01:08
fsmithredtake a deep breath01:08
dbbsthat doesn't help01:08
rrqit needs to contaion the grub modules for other filesystems01:08
* Afdal gives dbbs a paper bag01:08
dbbsthat doesn't help01:08
Afdalc:}01:08
gnarfaceas a sanity check: insmod gzio01:09
rrqyou need to reenter the installer and make sure grub installs to the efi partition01:09
gnarfacedoes it find that one?01:09
dbbsit doesn't reply at all01:09
fsmithredrrq, he installed from the live iso.01:09
dbbsit's just like >grub01:09
rrqyes01:09
dbbs:(01:09
AfdalHere's an example of what my grub-install command looks like when I need to do some tricky stuff: grub-install --target=x86_64-efi --efi-directory=/boot/efi --boot-directory=/boot --bootloader-id=GRUB --modules="luks2 part_gpt cryptodisk pbkdf2 ls cbtable normal reboot fat efi_gop efi_uga gcry_rijndael gcry_sha256 gcry_sha512"01:10
rrqhe made rootfs be reiserfs01:10
dbbsoh so a bunch of stuff I don't want to type in eh01:10
rrqmight not have mounte /boot/efi01:10
dbbscan I just reinstall as ext4 and avoid all this nonsense?01:10
AfdalYou might need to add --modules="reiserfs" to make sure the module gets added01:10
gnarfacedbbs: that means it worked01:10
dbbswhy will no one answer my question.01:11
gnarfacedbbs: after that do: insmod part_msdos01:11
dbbs:(01:11
AfdalWhat question01:11
gnarfacedbbs: then: insmod reiserfs01:11
gnarfacedbbs: tell me if all 3 of those insmods work in order01:11
dbbsfile not found for reiserfs01:11
rrqdbbs: ... fsmothred knows the devuan live installler01:11
gnarfacedbbs: :(01:11
fsmithredyeah, you can reinstall and use ext401:11
rrqsorry fsmithred01:11
dbbsyeah I'll just do that01:11
fsmithredit takes about 10 minutes01:11
AfdalNo way01:11
dbbssorry I know it's not the fun let's figure out how to fix reiserfs way01:12
AfdalJust go to the live environment and run grub-install again I:<01:12
dbbsI don't mind fixing stuff when it's broken01:12
dbbsbut I just... would like the initial install to work.01:13
fsmithredoh yeah01:13
gnarfacedbbs: for me on ceres, that file is in the "grub-pc-bin" package, not sure how you could be missing it, but that's a a bummer01:13
AfdalIn the future it seems the Devuan installers needs to pass a --modules="reiserfs" to its grub-install script01:13
fsmithredthe live isos have all the grub-*-bin packages installed01:13
rrqgnarface: grub-pc-bin is for old bios, not for uefi; it needs grub-efi-$ARCH for uefi01:14
gnarfaceoh, i see01:14
* gnarface fears and mistrusts efi01:14
fsmithredlol, I don't fear it anymore, but trust is thin01:14
dbbsboth packages are already installed on the live iso01:14
fsmithredyeah, that's deliberate01:15
rrqthen /boot/efi needs to be the efi partition01:15
fsmithredare you in a live session now, or still at the grub prompt?01:15
dbbsspecial time zone for arizona smh01:16
fsmithredjust pick the zone and the system should know when summer hours start01:17
dbbslol01:17
fsmithreddoesn't work for AZ?01:17
dbbsI already selected arizona I'm just being silly01:17
fsmithredoh, ok01:18
dbbsit has its own "time zone" because we don't have dst01:18
fsmithredthe rest of us are stuck on dst forever01:18
dbbsI hate dst :(01:18
dbbsdid the rest of the us (other than hawaii) finally do year long dst01:18
fsmithredyeah01:19
fsmithredmidnight will never again be in the middle of the night01:19
fsmithredand we are drifting waaaay OT01:19
fsmithredbrb01:19
dbbsokay now devuan started, so that's good01:22
dbbsbut grub didn't detect windows01:22
dbbsor the installer didn't.01:22
fsmithredrun os-prober01:23
dbbsah01:24
dbbsthat thing01:24
dbbsokay01:24
dbbsi did that and update-grub01:24
fsmithredI'm surprised it didn't run01:24
dbbssays it found it and added it01:24
fsmithredbut it's not in the boot menu?01:24
dbbsno no I just did it just this second01:24
fsmithredoh01:24
fsmithredwhew01:24
dbbsLol01:24
dbbsyeah it's starting now with windows so it's working01:25
fsmithredyou probably don't know this, but now that you bailed out on using reiser, I'm gonna have to try it.01:25
dbbshahaha01:25
dbbsmore power to you01:25
dbbs:301:25
dbbsSorry if I wasn't being fun01:26
dbbsI just didn't wnat to have to deal with this right on setup01:26
fsmithredI understand01:26
dbbsif I was working in a vm and could like... alt tab with the same keyboard between machines that would be different01:26
dbbsBut switching between these keyboards is a pain in the butt to me01:26
dbbsmore than anything01:27
dbbsalso I was worried (maybe stupidly) that I'd break the windows install01:27
dbbsI could easily reinstall windows, I just had gotten it setup right and didn't want to touch it01:27
dbbsis there a metapackage I should install if I want to use kde and have it install all the usual suspects I would from kubuntu-desktop on ubuntu01:28
gnarfacebackups are always a good idea01:28
dbbs:V01:28
dbbsOh I have backups01:28
dbbsI just meant specific programs installed and stuff01:28
fsmithredtask-kde-desktop I think01:29
dbbsI just don't have drive images01:29
dbbsok01:29
dbbsthanks01:29
dbbs:301:29
fsmithredbut mixing desktop environments can sometimes be tricky01:29
fsmithredbecause of the policykit crap01:29
dbbsthat worked01:30
dbbs:V01:30
fsmithredwow01:30
dbbsWe'll see if I have issues01:30
fsmithredis consolekit installed?01:30
fsmithredand is slim or lightdm installed?01:30
dbbsgimme a sec01:31
dbbs:301:31
dbbspolicykit yes01:32
dbbsslim is installed not lightdm01:32
fsmithredyou're in kde now?01:32
dbbsno not yet01:32
dbbsI meant it worked as in that was the correct package01:32
dbbsShould I install lightdm...01:33
fsmithrednot sure01:33
fsmithredI think maybe see if it works first01:33
dbbsok01:33
fsmithredbut I will check the release notes01:33
dbbsI'm not against xfce but I prefer kde, you know how it is01:33
dbbswe all like our things how we like them01:34
dbbsafdal thinks i'm a heathen...01:34
fsmithredlol, is consolekit installed?01:34
fsmithredyou might need elogind and libpam-elogind01:35
dbbsno consolekit01:35
fsmithredcool01:35
dbbswhat's elogind01:35
dbbsI can install it after aptitude is done01:35
fsmithredyou probably already have it01:36
dbbslet me check01:36
dbbsyeah both are installed01:36
fsmithredit handles the login session01:36
dbbslike lightdm? or seperate01:36
fsmithredit's a neutered piece of systemd that helps with satisfying dependencies01:37
gnarfacei had better luck with lightdm than slim with kde01:37
dbbssorry I'm stupid, I'm not like a beginning linux user these are just things I haven't ever had to touch01:37
gnarfacebut that was beowulf01:37
dbbsI'm on chimaera if that changes things01:37
rrqtry "man elogind"01:37
dbbsdoes installing lightdm's package make it switch to lightdm01:38
fsmithredI don't use slim because I did have problems with it in the past.01:38
dbbsyeah it's open01:38
dbbsthe manpage01:38
fsmithredyou'll get a debconf dialog asking which dm to use01:38
dbbsok01:38
dbbsi'll install lightdm then, I've used it in the past01:38
dbbsis there something you wanted me to check in the manpage rrq01:39
fsmithredI use lightdm or lxdm.01:39
dbbssure is a lot of packages for kde lol01:39
rrqno, just suggested it to tell you what elogind is/does01:39
fsmithredI think he wanted you to read a better description of elogind than I can give you.01:39
dbbsoh thanks rrq01:39
rrqa hotch-potch of things, some of which might be useful01:39
dbbswhat is this I am not good at computer etc01:40
dbbslol01:40
rrqbtw in early 1800s the coincidence of trains and personal time keeping devices gave rise to the notion of "political time zones", and since then midnight has not been midnight almost anywhere01:52
rrq.. to hard to adjust the clock a secind every 10 km :)01:53
AfdalWhen will timekeeping catch up to relativity though :'c01:58
jjakobrrq: work and opening hours should adjust to the local time instead of people adjusting to the imaginary time02:02
jjakobhave a dynamic work and opening schedule that is recomputed every once in a while02:03
jjakoboh, this is for offtopic...02:03
jjakobManis: thank you, I'll try it tomorrow, didn't have time yet02:04
dbbskde is working fine, I ended up switching to sddm after lightdm, it all works fine02:54
dbbsI'll stick around here and stalk afdal, got it on my autologin irc servers...02:54
Afdal{:02:55
dbbsgotta make sure he behaves himself...02:55
PonDoes anyone know how I can fix the problem where on an offline install tin installs inexplicably and then throws a hostname error causing the select and install software step to fail?03:55
rrqfirst an "apt-get -f install" to bring it back to consistent state04:03
rrqthen install with adding "tin-" on the command line04:03
PonThis seems like it could be a misinterpretation, the situation is that I'm trying to install devuan from scratch using the 4 GB AMD64 ISO.04:06
PonBut I'll try it.04:06
PonAlso for more information, I'm trying out Daedalus, but as far as I know, this error was already present back in Beowulf or something, and has never been fixed and I can't understand why. tin is just a usenet news reader or something, and it's causing offline OS installs to fail.04:07
rrqin that case you should install a smaller system choice and then fatten it up via command line installs .. I don't know which installation variant(s) results in "tin"04:08
rrqor alternatively, dive in via C-A-F2 when the "select software" dialog comes up and add an /etc/apt/preferences.d/ file to prohibit tin04:10
PonIt looks like "console productivity" is pulling this in.04:11
PonI guess I could try installing without that...04:11
rrqyeah, "tin" certainly shouldn't fail its installation in that way; maybe you'd like lodging a debian bug on that.04:16
PonIs console productivity a debian thing?04:17
PonIt doesn't seem to be.04:18
PonIt's a package anyone can look up, task-console-productivity.04:18
PonI just cannot understand this situation. In all my time using devuan this might be the one thing I most cannot understand.04:20
rrqit appears "tin" fails its installation due to something missing with its deployment; but it should fail installing just because running it fails.04:21
PonBut at least being able to leave out console productivity seems to make things a lot better than I thought they were.04:21
rrqtask-console-productivity is a "virtual package" that merely depends on other packages. I suppose one option is to exclude tin from its recommends04:22
PonIt's a package tasksel uses to install other things, when you select "console productivity" during the "select and install software" step. At least during an "expert install". I'm not sure about other types of installs.04:23
rrqyes, the whole installationis based on selecting some virtual packages that depends/recommends other packages (recursively)04:24
rrqthen each package installs via its own coding04:24
gnarfacemaybe try it without recommends?04:24
gnarfaceapt-get --no-install-recommends [package]04:24
gnarfaceer, i mean apt-get --no-install-recommends install [package]04:25
PonThere is no option for without recommends in the expert install (and probably not in a non-expert install either). If I used apt-get via the command line though, then I could do that. But I'm not sure that's relevant to OS installation. I guess it could be somehow.04:25
gnarfacesorry was skimming too fast04:26
rrqIMO the fundamental issue is when packages get deployed just by being installed, and in particular when the installation fails due to deployment failure04:27
rrqbut that's kind of irrelevant here :)04:27
PonI am not sure what console productivity is. I just selected it thinking I would get nice potentially useful console utilities already installed. I guess it was my mistake for trying to always select it.04:28
Ponhttps://www.devuan.org/os/announce/ascii-stable-announce-060818 "hundreds of CLI and TUI utils" that's the most information I've managed to find on what it is yet.04:30
rrqPon: yes, perhaps you'd prefer lodging a devuan bug against task-console-productivity (part of tasksel), although its "bug" is that it includes "tin", which has an installation bug :)04:31
PonYEah which IIRC does not cause the bug/failure when you do an online install, IIRC it only does it during an offline install.04:32
PonBut now that I know it's console productivity, this is a lot more understandable to me, this is just an extra optional task that devuan made and I guess they are only testing offline installs without it04:33
PonIf I really want to I can even install task-console-productivity after I boot to my new OS, with or without recommends, so the situation isn't so bad once I know what's going on to this degree, but to people who don't, this may be very strange and frustrating.04:35
rrqI guess lodging two bus would be ideal: against tin re its broken installation variant, and re t-c-p re its inconenient choice of packages ...04:43
rrqbus=bugs04:43
rrq...and /re/on/ and /con/conv/04:45
PonI was able to install fine. But does anyone know why lightdm might not be showing up? It just makes a blinking text cursor in the top left.06:03
dbbsis devuan chimaera based off of debian bullseye12:54
dbbs?12:54
debdogyes12:55
debdoghttps://www.devuan.org/os/releases12:55
dbbsoh lol12:55
dbbsI saw that and just saw stable not bullseye12:55
debdoghehe, that happens12:56
dbbsThanks I just wanted to get a game from debian repos that I didn't find in the devuan repos12:56
dbbs:312:56
debdogif it's in debian's official repo it shoulld™ be there12:56
dbbsI didn't see it but I was in the muon package manager frontend12:57
dbbslet me see if it just installs with apt...12:57
debdogwhat's its name?12:57
dbbsyeah it's not there12:57
dbbsthe package is uqm12:57
debdogaptitude search uqm12:58
debdogi   uqm                                                                      - The Ur-Quan Masters - An inter-galactic adventure game12:58
dbbsis there something wrong with my repos?12:58
debdoghmm, odd. what does your sources.list look like?12:59
dbbsdeb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main12:59
dbbsthen chimaera-updates chimaera-security and chimaera-backports are #commentedouut13:00
debdogare you up-to-date? (even though I suppose it should be there even if not)13:00
dbbsI ran upgrade yesterday13:00
debdogmaybe it is in non-free13:00
dbbshow do I add that13:01
debdogor contrib13:01
dbbssorry I just installed devuan yesterday13:01
debdogdeb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ chimaera main non-free contrib13:01
dbbsor rather what line do I put in13:01
dbbsokay13:01
debdogthen apt update13:01
dbbsthanks :3 let me try it13:01
dbbsyes13:02
dbbsthat fixed it13:02
debdog\ø/13:02
debdogoops13:02
debdog\o/13:02
dbbsnow I don't have to manually install stuff \:3/13:02
dbbslol13:02
debdoghehe13:02
dbbsDevuan is pretty cool so far, i was kind of surprised with how many packages are available that this one game wasn't in the repos13:03
dbbsbut it was all along13:03
debdogexcept for a few packages which depend on systemd everyting is available as in the debian repo13:04
dbbscool :313:05
dbbsthat's how I assumed it would be based on what my friend told me about it13:06
dbbsbut now you've confirmed it13:06
onefanguqm itself is in contrib, there are optional music and voice bits in non-free, but the uqm-content package is non-free, and is a dependancy of uqm.13:16
onefangLooks interesting, installing it now.  SOmething to do on the weekend.13:16
dbbsit's a great game imo13:29
dbbsmy only hint for the first minute of the game is your ship will be hard to control (it's upgradeable after you collect resources and get access to the starbase) and head for the starbase13:29
dbbs:313:29
dbbsthe starbase around eaerth13:30
djphwhat game?13:38
djphoh, 'uqm' ?13:38
debdoggameplay is somewhat similar to EVN or Endless-Sky13:40
onefangNow we have drifted off to #devuan-offtopic.13:42
djphjust a bit13:42
debdogEndless-Sky is in devuan repo, so yes, partly13:43
golinuxdbbs: Some useful links:15:19
golinuxhttps://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html15:19
golinuxhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt15:19
golinuxDebian repos should not be used directly.15:21
golinuxAll "safe" pkg are merged with Devuan by amprolla https://git.devuan.org/devuan/amprolla315:23
dbbsthanks golinux15:47
dbbssorry if I'm not reading all the right docs automatically lol15:47
dbbssorry if I ask more stupid quetions in the future15:49
fsmithredyou don't need to apologize for asking questions here.15:50
dbbsok15:50
dbbsthanks15:50
dbbsI've had some RTFM type replies to me way in the past15:51
fsmithredyeah, we try not to be like that15:51
dbbsthat's good :315:51
fsmithredbecause it's mostly useless15:51
fsmithredi.e. saying that without providing some answer is useless. R'ing the FM is usually not useless. Just sometimes cryptic.15:52
dbbsWell sometimes documentation is... lacking15:52
dbbsor old or whatever15:52
fsmithredyup15:52
dbbsOr in my favorite linux package ffmpeg, a mile long15:52
fsmithreddo you know how to search a string in a man page?15:53
dbbsmmmm15:54
fsmithredtype /15:54
dbbsnot off the top of my head15:54
dbbsoh like aptitude?15:54
fsmithredthen type the search pattern15:54
fsmithredenter15:54
fsmithredthen '/ enter' to gget to the next one15:54
dbbsok that's easy15:54
dbbsthanks15:54
fsmithredyw15:54
debdogor just "n"15:54
dbbsalso easy15:55
dbbsaren't those the same exact ones from aptitude?15:55
debdogI think, yes15:55
dbbsok just making sure15:55
dbbsI have a lot a lot of experience with aptitude15:56
fsmithredI have almost no experience with the ncurses aptitude. I just use it on command line.15:56
debdogas long as a switch to apt is forced I'll stay with aptitude, too15:56
fsmithredIt reminds me too much of the old-old-old debian installer.15:56
dbbshaha15:57
fsmithreddselect15:57
debdogerm, *isn't15:57
u-amarsh04aptitude is pretty good to use these days with the control-U for undo16:19
Guest14Hi,16:48
Guest14What do these kernel startup options in GRUB mean?16:48
Guest14.linux /live/vmlinuz boot=live hostname=parrot quilet persistence components initrd=/live/initrd.img16:48
onefangShould that be "quiet", not "quilet"?16:49
Afdal<fsmithred> do you know how to search a string in a man page?16:50
AfdalWhat the hay, I never knew that...16:50
AfdalI just pipe searches to grep!!!16:50
brocashelmis it just me, or is mintstick now provided by debian/devuan?16:51
brocashelmi thought it was only for mint16:51
brocashelmlooks like it's only hit the sid repo...? https://pkgs.org/download/mintstick16:56
PonDid anything change with how apt-cdrom works? I used to be able to use it to install packages post-os-installation off my usb drive. I apparently can't anymore, it just says it can't find the cdrom. I don't remember needing to put it in /etc/fstab before but I tried putting it in there this time and I was able to confirm my fstab entry worked but I still couldn't get apt-cdrom to work.18:27
PonAnd apt-get update just says that I need to use apt-cdrom, which is what I'm used to.18:28
fsmithredPon, I haven't used apt-cdrom, but there have been times when I had to make a symlink from /dev/cdrom to wherever the usb was mounted.19:06
PonThat works? So replacing the mount directory with a symlink?19:08
fsmithredI think so. Last time I did it was a few years ago, possibly before devuan existed.19:08
fsmithrednormally if you only have the cdrom line in sources.list and no online repos enabled, then all should come from the CD by just using 'apt install <package>'19:09
PonI'm using to also needing to use apt-cdrom add before I can do that, for some reason.19:10
Ponused*19:10
fsmithredwhat's in sources.list? (don't paste the file here)19:10
PonJust the cdrom line, everything else is commented out.19:11
fsmithredit gave you that message with the update command or with the upgrade command?19:12
PonUpdate said use apt-cdrom.19:13
fsmithredwell, maybe it expects you to have a new CD/DVD that has newer packags than the one you used to install the system.19:13
fsmithredjust a guess19:13
PonI don't think so, the line in sources.list is for the one I used to install it.19:14
fsmithredyeah, so there's nothing to update19:14
fsmithrednothing available at your location, I mean19:14
Ponhm, well, it's just, I can't seem to install packages off the usb either.19:15
fsmithredwhat's it say if you try to install something? And what did you try to install?19:15
PonUnable to locate for one package, no installation candidate for another.20:03
PonI tried to install elogind.20:03

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