libera/#devuan/ Saturday, 2022-06-18

plasma41Pon: Try rerunning `apt-cdrom add`?00:36
PonI've tried rerunning it something like several times. What changed that made you suggest this? (Not being rude)00:39
plasma41Pon: Just trying to eliminate the possibility that you had hand editted the sources.list file which doesn't work with cdrom sources.00:42
PonOh.... See that line in sources.list was generated when I installed the os off of the same usb.00:43
plasma41Pon: Which iso are you using on the usb?00:44
Pondevuan_daedalus_5.0.preview-20220613_amd64_desktop.iso00:44
plasma41Is there a 'pool' directory on the usb?00:46
PonYeah.00:46
rrqPon: there is a "file:" variant for deb repositories to use ... I have never had luck with the "cdrom:" variant00:46
PonWhat do you mean?00:47
rrqtwo steps: 1) mount the iso to be at some path "/.../" to where the pool directory is,00:47
rrq2) add "deb [trusted=yes] file:///.... daedalus main" to your sources list00:48
rrqand comment out the cdrom one00:48
rrqthen: apt-get update ; apt-get install something00:48
PonSo mount /dev/sdx1 and then set the path after file:// to the full path for the pool directory?00:51
rrqyes, except "/pool"00:51
PonI might as well try that.00:51
PonThanks.00:51
PonUsing the root of the usb instead of pool seemed like it was going to work because then it could find a Release file where it expected, but then it said it's disabled because it's not signed.01:00
PonHonestly01:00
rrqhmm even with the "[trusted=yes]" bit?01:00
PonWhere do I put that?01:01
rrq2) add "deb [trusted=yes] file:///.... daedalus main" to your sources list01:01
PonOh thanks.01:01
PonIt looks like that worked, thanks. Although it hasn't solved my problem. It's starting to look like the packages I want to install next, libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 and libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0, are just not on the usb as I was starting to suspect. In fact they don't even seem to be on the 501:04
PonGB "pool1" iso either.01:04
PonI'm not completely sure where to even get them for daedalus.01:04
plasma41Pon, if they are there, I think they should be in 'pool/main/e/elogind/'01:05
PonThat's pretty much one place I checked already, that's why I was starting to suspect they're not on either ISO.01:06
plasma41Scratch that. They should be in 'pool/main/p/policykit-1/' if they are there at all01:07
rrqwhich package wants those?01:07
PonIt's not a package that wants them, I'm looking to replace consolekit so I can uninstall it.01:07
rrqah.. that one01:08
rrqit's all a dependency quirk01:08
rrqbecause consolekit depends on libsystemd001:08
rrqand libelogind0 is (only) declared to provide libsystemd001:09
rrqso apt doesn't realise that libelogind0 is good enough for consolekit to stay in01:09
Ponplasma41 yeah I found that folder at some point as well, it's not there either. I've had problems with consolekit making my lightdm not boot seemingly twice now, I know elogind is taken out of systemd so it's not good but consolekit seems to be a major problem to me.01:10
rrqbut I remember it that you just install libelogind0 and then all are happy anyhow ... was a while ago01:11
gnarfaceis this an air-gapped system? why not just download them from the repo?01:11
PonSee.... If lightdm doesn't boot, and I have no GUI... Then I can't use the network-manager GUI.01:12
PonNor can I use other software I want to install first01:13
gnarfaceoh, well that's a fairly avoidable problem01:13
gnarfaceyou can put the network config into /etc/network/interfaces by hand01:13
gnarfaceif you're using dhcp it's 2 lines01:13
gnarfacestatic ip it's like 4-701:14
PonI think I probably could technically find some way to connect it to the internet like what you're saying, there's no ethernet cable but I MIGHT be able to get tethering or some kind of wlan to work... But it seems like a pain...01:14
rrqlibpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 doesn't exist for chimaera and later01:14
gnarfaceoh?01:14
gnarfacewhich installer cd is this?01:15
rrqdaedalus01:15
gnarfacehmm, odd01:15
PonBut if backend doesn't exist, then does that mean that what I need is gobject?01:15
plasma41Is xdm on that ISO? If lightdm is not working for you, xdm may work well enough to get you to a desktop01:17
PonThere, I guess I'll just try and install this. https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0=0.105-33devuan101:21
PonWell... Come to think of it.... I could try and see if sddm might work. But I didn't end up getting xdm for some reason.01:22
rrqPon: not that libpolkit-backend-1-0 also ceased presence after beowulf01:22
rrqnot=note01:22
rrqyou need to get libelogind0 installed so apt understands it provides libsystemd0 ...01:24
rrq(hmm the daedalus version of libelogind0 doesn't provide libsystemd0 ?) ... maybe I should be quiet rather01:26
rrq(I'm talking around chimaera apparently)01:27
* rrq goes for breakfast01:29
PonWell, apparently sddm works, even though lightdm for some reason doesn't.01:29
brocashelmsddm and lxdm are the only ones that have worked for me. lightdm seems to require some bs service stuff enabled that i could never figure out, with or without systemd01:32
PonIt always worked for me except for a handful of bizarre errors, one of which I think was related to policykit.01:33
brocashelmthose things are way too problematic as it is that i just use startx01:42
brocashelmbtw, trinity desktop comes with its own display manager; it's pretty nifty and has devuan repo01:43
PonStartx?01:45
brocashelmif your os doesn't detect an existing dm, then you get prompted on a tty login screen (you can preview it with ctrl+alt+f1/2/3/4/5/6/7)01:46
brocashelmi created an .xinitrc file in home and only put the line: exec startxfce401:47
brocashelmonce logged in, just type startx and your xfce (or another de/wm you prefer) will start up01:47
brocashelmi find that method much simpler and more convenient in case i run into display problems that could be fixed through cli01:47
brocashelmbut sddm is pretty decent i should say, and easier to get working than lightdm or slim01:48
PonHuh..... Thanks. That sure sounds useful. I'll make a note of it.01:48
gnarfacei agree, it's a lot more reliable to do it that way, and probably more secure, it's just not pretty01:48
brocashelmindeed01:49
brocashelmbut it gets easier to get the hang of01:49
PonIt doesn't sound hard, and you can make a script so you only have to type 3+ characters instead of 9 or so too.01:49
brocashelmjust put in your credentials and then type startx (provided your .xinitrc file is present and correct)01:49
PonThanks.01:50
KingsyHi, so I cant get my internal mic working on my laptop, I am currently using pulse audio, can anyone help?01:51
Kingsynot sure how to debug it01:51
rrq(ne experts around)... I'd start with "amixer" to see that Capture is on02:02
rrqne=no02:02
gnarfacepavucontrol might give you options that can help02:05
gnarfaceif the driver works and pavucontrol doesn't help, try running alsamixer without pulseaudio running to see if something is still muted there02:05
fsmithredF6 should let you see alsa even if pulse is running.02:15
fsmithred^^^in alsamixer02:16
dbbbsI know you guys recommended lightdm but I opted for sddm and it's working great08:01
dbbbs:308:01
dbbbsfsmithred did you get reiserfs working08:02
brocashelmi recommended sddm ;)08:17
brocashelmeven on systemdumbed machines, lightdm and slim wouldn't launch on their own, but sddm always did08:18
fsmithreddbbs, yes, I just did it. It worked fine. Booted live iso in qemu, installed reiserfsprogs and got an error on the postinst script, but it installed. Made a single partition and formatted it as reiserfs. Ran refractainstaller with no-format option. Installed grub-pc to mbr. It boots.14:49
fsmithredFWIW, I used a Refracta-11 (chimaera) iso. (It's devuan with my software choices.) Plain devuan-live iso should work the same.14:51
Guest171Hi,15:16
Guest1711) What are the parameters of the nucleus launches so that a file is used for all saving in the system?15:16
Guest1712) How to write these parameters in the GRUB menu?15:16
Guest1713) How to change the GRUB menu from the ISO file? (I will install it on a flash drive)15:16
fsmithredGuest171, for #3, if you do a normal installation to a usb flash drive (not the one you're using to boot the iso) then you can just install grub to the mbr of the usb. Then when you want to boot that system, use the motherboard's boot device menu to select it.15:21
fsmithredI don't understand questions 1 and 2.15:21
fsmithredif you install grub to the mbr (or efi partition) of the internal disk, then you will need to have the usb plugged in to boot the internal disk.15:22
fsmithredactually, I'm not sure that's true with uefi. And it's likely different with different uefi computers. They don't all follow the specs.15:23
Guest171How to increase the size of the FD64Save.EXT4 file for Fatdog? Gslapt writes about a lack of free space. I need to somehow fix it.15:43
fsmithredI don't know if anyone here knows about fatdog. Is it even based on devuan?15:58
Guest171I accidentally wrote there16:04
Guest171I go out16:04
tete_hi, is there an .iso for daedalus available? or do i have to install chimaera and then modify sources.list to switch?17:14
debdogtete_: yes, chimaera then upgrade17:15
tete_ok17:15
Pontete_ there are isos for it.17:29
Ponhttps://files.devuan.org/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/17:30
PonIt works alright17:30
Ponat least for me so far17:30
Ponbut if you do an offline install, don't select console productivity (I'm not sure if that option is only available in expert installs or not) and if you use lightdm and it doesn't work, just use dpkg-reconfigure lightdm and switch to a different login manager like sddm.17:31
debdogoh, that's news to me17:35
PonThe console productivity problem and lightdm problems seem to have both been around since like beowulf or before.17:36
PonBut I think you meant the isos.17:36
tete_i just want to see s6 on a testserver, so i'll go without any display manager17:41
PonConsole Productivity causes the problem with offline installs even if you go without any display manager.17:42
tete_oh ok17:42
tete_seems like the link with the isos is now dead, i started the download, now i can not reach it anymore ^^17:45
tete_after about 25mb :>17:45
PonThat doesn't sound like a right conclusion.17:45
tete_lucky me i was able to find https://mirror.ungleich.ch/mirror/devuan/devuan_daedalus/installer-iso/ :P17:46
PonDoes anyone know what's the best IRC channel to ask for help with bluetooth tethering on?17:54
tete_oh, devuan does not provide s6, its only meant for inclusion?18:07
tete_and somehow i get errors when using backports/updates/security repos, 404 not found at deb.devuan.org/merged daedalus-updates Release etc.18:10
PonDoes anyone know why my bluetooth tethering might be failing?18:28
PonI can pair with my device but I can't share internet.18:28
fsmithredtete_, daedalus is still the Testing suite. There is only a single repo until it's released as stable.18:40
fsmithrednext year18:41
tete_ah ok18:42
dbbs:o19:22
dbbswho hilited me19:22
dbbsoh fsmithred I'm glad it worked19:22
_wheelI'm getting EAGAIN errors loops which will use CPU very much. This happens in devuan4 and 5, both fresh installed. --> https://justpaste.it/1vjqa19:39
_wheelunable to use computer because loads are so high19:39
_wheelthese EAGAIN, futex things loops very fast which causes high CPU loads. What is causing this?19:41
treeofknowledgehi guys i just installed devuan will need some help in a bit :/20:16
treeofknowledgeHow do I install nvidia drivers on devuan?20:19
fsmithredtreeofknowledge, same as in debian. See the debian wiki for detailed instructions.20:20
fsmithredoutside... bbl20:21
treeofknowledgewhen installing nvidia i get "Errors were encountered while processing:20:37
treeofknowledge nvidia-persistenced20:37
treeofknowledge"20:37
fsmithredtreeofknowledge, I don't think you need nvidia-persistenced (not really sure) but I do know that you can avoid it by installing with option --no-install-recommends20:46
fsmithred"the daemon prevents the driver from20:47
fsmithred releasing device state when the device is not in use"  That sounds like the reason I stopped using nvidia driver.20:47
brocashelmnvidia is still not all the way there when it comes to open-source support20:48
fsmithredit saved the last thing I looked at and displayed it during the next boot.20:48
brocashelmit's down to just nouveau and being like linus and giving nvidia the middle finger until they get it right20:48
brocashelmintel and amd linux support is vastly superior. i think intel is a bit more compatible with linux than amd is (e.g. you get per-core sensors temps with intel cpus out of the box with coretemp-isa, whereas you have to enable k10temp for amd cpus to get the average cpu temp)20:52
gnarfaceyou don't need nvidia-persistenced, and sometimes they abandon it during a minor revision and you have to remove it manually to make apt stop complaining about it21:00
gnarfacetreeofknowledge: ^21:00
treeofknowledgeNow that I'm trying to use the debian instructions with the debian repository updated, it tells me to insert a media device and it's not working -.-21:15
gnarfacesounds like a problem with your sources.list21:15
fsmithredwhat debian repository updated???21:16
fsmithreddon't use debian repos.21:16
gnarfacenote that when you were told to use the debian instructions it was not intended for you to literally use them verbatim; just use the method but use the devuan repo urls21:16
brocashelmexactly, do not use debian repositories for devuan21:16
brocashelmdo not use any other repository other than devuan's21:16
gnarfacehowever, the "insert media device" error kinda sounds like what you'd get if you'd left the "cdrom://" line in there from an offline install21:16
fsmithredyou can get all the debian packages you want through devuan repos except for about 100 packages that you don't want anyway.21:16
treeofknowledgewell i need noob assistance can someone guide me like a complete noob because clearly im doing something wrong21:20
gnarfacechimaera install, right?21:21
brocashelmtreeofknowledge: could you please post your /etc/apt/sources.list file to dpaste.org or similar?21:22
gnarfacejust change your /etc/apt/sources.list to this: https://paste.debian.net/1244497/21:22
brocashelmif you're using chimaera, you should have this line: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged chimaera main21:22
treeofknowledgeyes chimaera21:25
treeofknowledgeok i added that and did apt update now what21:29
treeofknowledgejust run sudo apt install nvidia-driver?21:30
treeofknowledgei mean no sudo21:30
treeofknowledgebtw it did have the cd rom under sources list lol21:31
_wheelhttp://merkaba.starseeds.space/problem.mp4 <-- I'm having this problem in my desktop and in virtualmachines. Fresh Devuan4 and 5 installs.21:31
_wheelCpu load goes very high. many programs does this21:32
_wheelit's not radeon driver because virtualmachines does that same too (no radeon drivers there)21:32
gnarfacetreeofknowledge: yes, although sometimes it leaves some behind and you have to request to install them too afterwards; check the versions on the output of this for a start: dpkg -l |grep nvidia -i21:33
gnarfacenvidia's driver is a mess21:34
gnarfacelike 30 packages with sloppy dependencies21:34
fsmithred_wheel, "Video can't be played because the file is corrupt."21:34
gnarfaceeventually you just start to recognize them21:34
brocashelmvideo works with mpv21:35
brocashelmmpv http://merkaba.starseeds.space/problem.mp421:35
fsmithredI can see it, but I can't interpret it.21:38
_wheelhttp://merkaba.starseeds.space/another_example.mp421:38
fsmithred_wheel, are you using virtualbox?21:38
_wheelit's hard to work in computer because loads will go high21:38
_wheelfsmithred: it does that in real computer and in virtualbox too21:38
_wheelthat video is from real computer21:39
fsmithredand top will show different programs doing it?21:39
_wheelyes many programs does that21:40
_wheelfirefox,xorg,xfwm4, etc21:40
_wheelsame EAGAIN looping21:40
treeofknowledgehow do i view what packages i can install. does devuan have a gui for viewing available software i can install such as psensor21:40
fsmithredsynaptic21:40
fsmithredor...21:40
fsmithredapt-cache search <string>21:41
gnarfaceor just browse to pkginfo.devuan.org21:41
fsmithredI really should remember that one.21:41
treeofknowledgethank you , you beautiful people!21:42
fsmithredafk, back in a bit.21:42
treeofknowledgei'm not a pro but i did a little research. I don't understand how qubes, tails, etc can be privacy and security oriented if they use systemd21:43
treeofknowledgeis systemd still using google dns?21:43
brocashelmi can't recommend synaptic enough21:46
brocashelmyou can also use aptitude if you want to stay in the terminal (but it does have a simple gui)21:46
brocashelmfor security hardening your devuan/debian, there are articles around the web for that. i personally use lynis to check the basics21:47
brocashelmsudo lynis audit system21:47
brocashelmis how you do a basic system scan21:47
treeofknowledgeaha nice thank you. I am using synaptic only21:48
treeofknowledgealso i need to unisntall a lot of crap that came with it21:48
treeofknowledgei have another question21:48
brocashelmit offers some tips at the end for improving security, but things like password expiration aren't that necessary unless you're in snowden mode and want to avoid those who glow in the dark21:48
brocashelmsynaptic is great. it's very user-friendly. all you have to do is open it up, reload, mark all upgrades, and then apply (if all goes well). and then carry on with life21:49
treeofknowledgehttps://www.devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/chimaera/img/023tasksel.png Please view this image and tell me if i unselect standard system utilities will i not get all these horrible games installed? what will be the outcome?21:49
brocashelmthere's also muon for kde plasma systems21:50
treeofknowledgethank you brocashelm21:50
fsmithredstandard system utilities includes things like: bzip2 less whois and a bunch of other things you probably expect to be there21:51
treeofknowledgeok.21:51
brocashelmi would keep that selected21:51
treeofknowledgeI only selected cinnamon and didn't select devuan desktop environment thats fine right?21:51
brocashelmyeah, that's fine21:51
fsmithredif you unselect 'devuan desktop environmen' you won't get the desktop theme21:51
treeofknowledgei only like cinnamon lol21:52
brocashelmoh yeah clearlooks and the like?21:52
treeofknowledgei'm coming from linux mint21:52
treeofknowledgei don't mind the older version as long as its cinnamon21:52
brocashelmonly mint programs i still use are hypnotix and mintstick (the latter is currently available from debian sid, which i expect to go to testing and stable soon)21:53
brocashelmbut refracta's tools are also great21:53
treeofknowledgethanks again21:54
brocashelmnp21:54
treeofknowledgehow can i avoid having these games installed when i install this as my main21:54
fsmithredwhat games?21:54
treeofknowledgei don't want to use other devuan distributions i'd prefer the original21:54
fsmithredno games get installed by default21:54
treeofknowledgelol, it must be the cinnamon DE21:54
treeofknowledgethen21:54
treeofknowledgelmao21:54
treeofknowledgei only selected cinnamon21:55
treeofknowledgeso that must be the reason why21:55
fsmithredback in a few minutes...21:55
treeofknowledgexD21:55
brocashelmxlennart is a fun game21:57
treeofknowledgehey broca, how do i view the marked for uninstallation packages after im done selecting them in the synaptic manager21:57
brocashelmif you click apply, you will get a prompt showing you lists of packages to upgrade, install, remove, and purge (with configs)21:59
treeofknowledgeawesome thank u22:00
brocashelm:)22:00
treeofknowledgelast question (i hope lol) when i use ctrl + end (my shortcut for taking screenshots) it just blinks on the screen but doesn't take the screen shot, why is this?22:06
treeofknowledgei am using gnome-screenshot -a for the keyboard hot key22:08
brocashelmcan you launch gnome-screenshot from terminal?22:09
treeofknowledgedoes anyone know the terminal command i can add so it takes a screen shot from a selected area hen i use a hot key22:09
treeofknowledgeno i use that command in the keyboard option as a hotkey to take a screenshot in linux mint but it's not working in devuan22:10
brocashelmlooks like it's broken for me if i try -a22:11
brocashelm** Message: 13:11:13.734: Unable to select area using GNOME Shell's builtin screenshot interface, resorting to fallback X11.22:11
brocashelm** Message: 13:11:16.770: Unable to use GNOME Shell's builtin screenshot interface, resorting to fallback X11.22:11
brocashelmand then with -w, i get this22:12
brocashelm(gnome-screenshot:23830): Handy-WARNING **: 13:11:47.069: Using GtkSettings:gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme together with HdyStyleManager is unsupported. Please use HdyStyleManager:color-scheme instead.22:12
brocashelmso some dependency issue22:12
brocashelmif you want, try xfce4-screenshooter or scrot22:12
brocashelmgn*me's programs tend to be quite broken by design22:13
brocashelmyou can just use xfce4-screenshooter for the keybind and it prompts you with options before taking the screenshot22:13
treeofknowledgeah ok thanks!22:15
gnarfacetreeofknowledge: if you only select "standard system utilities" and nothing else, you won't get any games22:21
gnarfaceif you really don't want extra stuff on the install, that's usually the best approach22:21
gnarfaceyou can install anything else you want afterwards22:21
gnarfaceymmv, but there's nothing in standard system utilites i didn't always end up having to install anyway22:22
treeofknowledgeso i just select the default devuan environment and standard system utilities then install cinnamon after?22:46
DPAThe package is "task-cinnamon-desktop"22:48
treeofknowledgethank you DPA22:54

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