libera/#devuan/ Monday, 2022-07-11

systemdletefirefox and thunderbird are crashing after I rebooted all my systems, on both VMs and hosts.  This behavior is new, only since the reboot to new kernel (5.10.0-16).  Anyone else having this, or knows what is going on?21:09
systemdletewas using 5.10.0-14 previously (yes, I never ran 5.10.0-15, sorry)21:10
systemdleteGoogling, I found a hit for the error messages from 2018 and earlier, but nothing more recent.21:11
systemdletethe solution then (at least, one solution anyways) was to revert to an earlier version of ff.21:12
fsmithredwas that after a firefox update or a kernel update?21:13
systemdleteIs it time, once again, to switch to chromium21:13
fsmithredewwww21:13
systemdletefsmithred, well, not sure, there have been updates of both recently21:13
fsmithredI mean the old post21:13
systemdleteyes, it was21:13
rwpsystemdlete, is this in Ceres Unstable?21:13
systemdleteno chimaera21:14
fsmithredI'm upgrading now. Kernel is in the list, but firefox is not and has been working ok.21:14
systemdletefsmithred, upgrading from _____ to ____ ?21:14
systemdlete(just wondering if it's the same sequence as mine)21:14
fsmithredupgrading to current chimaera from current chimaera minus 64 package.21:15
fsmithred-15 to -1621:15
systemdleteah, ty21:15
systemdletenote that I skipped -15; went directly from -14 to -1621:15
fsmithredrebooting21:15
rwpI have not had any problems with Firefox on Chimaera with Linux 5.10 and firefox-esr 91.1121:15
systemdleteit's crazy, because in my case, both tbird AND ff are crashing.21:15
systemdleteI had not either, until just a little while ago when I rebooted to the new kernel (and perhaps newer ff and tbird, not 100% sure)21:16
rwpI think that is a clue that it is in the libraries that both of those share using.  Both being Mozilla and all.21:16
systemdleterwp:  right21:16
systemdleteI've seen stuff just like this in the past.  Iirc, I had to wait for a fix from upstream21:17
systemdlete(that was on centos, not devuan, though)21:17
systemdlete(years ago)21:17
systemdleterwp, fsmithred:  I'm using only stock (repo) versions of the kernels and ff and tbird.  Just for further reference/context.21:18
systemdleteAlso, this is happening on the StarLinux variant also.  (but let's not go THERE, ok?  LOL)21:19
systemdleteI am not certain but Star might be stuck at beowulf.21:19
systemdleteI have not seen an update since then.21:20
fsmithredyou upgraded it to chimaera?21:20
fsmithredI opened 12 tabs. What else do I need to do?21:20
systemdlete4.19.0 is the kernel running on StarLinux21:21
systemdleteand I've kept it up to date21:21
fsmithredup-to-date beowulf or chimaera?21:21
fsmithredapt policy libc6 please21:21
systemdleteI think, but not sure, StarLinux was beowulf.21:21
fsmithredI can tell you if you answer.21:22
systemdlete2.31-13+deb11u321:22
systemdletethat's on chimaera systems.21:22
fsmithredyes21:23
fsmithredchimaera21:23
fsmithredany particular website makes it crash?21:23
systemdleteon Star, it is 2.28-10+deb10u121:23
systemdlete(and 12 tabs is plenty to repro)21:23
fsmithredthat's beowulf21:23
systemdleteright, as I thought...21:23
fsmithredyou have the problem on both systems?21:24
systemdleteso kernel level might be irrelevant ?21:24
systemdleteyes21:24
fsmithredyeah, I'm running beowulf most of the time (right here, now) and no browser crashes.21:24
systemdletehmmm21:24
systemdleteok21:24
systemdleteso it's just me then21:24
fsmithredalso t'bird on this beowulf.21:25
rwpI have my new machine running Chimaera and no crashes.  systemdlete, Try opening firefox from the command line with: firefox -safe-mode21:25
systemdletethx for that info21:25
fsmithredhow does the crash act?21:25
systemdleterwp:  sure... hold on21:25
systemdletefsmithred, I get the crash dialog21:25
fsmithredoh21:25
rwpUpstream docs on that mode: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/diagnose-firefox-issues-using-troubleshoot-mode21:25
systemdleteit offers to restart it21:25
systemdletesafe-mode seems to alleviate it, yeah rwp... but let me try some more things21:26
rwpThe next step in the Mozilla Firefox trouble shooting decision tree is: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-extensions-themes-to-fix-problems21:28
systemdleteI've disabled all extensions.21:29
systemdleteExcept for the ddg one.21:29
systemdleteHere is an exmple of the cmd line trace from ff:   https://pastebin.com/3amqvYmW21:31
systemdlete(if interested)21:32
systemdleterwp:  They suggest disabling hw accel -- I will try that21:34
systemdletebut it still crashes, even with hw accel disabled (unchecked box)21:36
rwpI really have no idea.  I can only walk through the upstream decision tree for debugging these types of problems.21:37
rwpBut a combination kernel, library, and program upgrades and specific hardware is plausible to trip over a problem of hardware acceleration.  Maybe.21:39
systemdleteThis was not an issue until after I rebooted to this new kernel.   I can try rebooting to the old kernel.  Bbs...21:42
systemdleterolling back to previous kernel does not help.21:54
systemdleteI noticed this message just now:   Failed to open curl lib from binary, use libcurl.so instead21:54
systemdleteThat message does not always seem to show up21:55
systemdleteAm I supposed to coerce these programs (ff and tbird) to somehow make sure to use the shared library?21:56
systemdleteah!   In the kern.log, I see tons of these:   [drm:vmw_msg_ioctl [vmwgfx]] *ERROR* Failed to open channel.21:59
rwpShared libraries such as for curl should Just Work.  That doesn't mean that isn't where the breakage is though.21:59
systemdletebtw, I should tell you that this is in a VM.  I tried ff on the host, and I didn't see problems, but I only did some very basic tests.21:59
systemdleteso this might be a video driver issue?  Maybe?  But I haven't done ANYTHING to vbox since looooong before the kernel reboot22:00
systemdleteI wonder... if I revert all the way back to  the -14 kernel, maybe that would restore things22:01
rwpIf someone asks if some particular random thing might be a problem the answer is always yes, yes it might be a problem.22:01
rwpBut guessing like that is a hard way to debug.  It's better to work through from the known data.22:01
systemdleterwp:  Well, I *was* running the -14 kernel before these crashes started occurring.22:02
rwpBut you booted back to the -14 kernel and that did not resolve the problem.22:03
systemdleteThere is, in fact, a vbox issue with video, so that could be the smoking gun.22:03
systemdleterwp: NO!22:03
rwpNo?22:03
systemdleteactually, the -14 kernel is gone now.   I only had -15 to work with.  That's what I am running22:03
systemdleteSo maybe the "rollback" is not a fair test22:03
systemdleteIf I use apt to install the -14 kernel, will that cause -16 to disappear, or something like that?22:04
systemdlete(not sure how apt handles this, sorry)22:04
rwpInstalling a different kernel with different version number will not make other version'd kernels disappear.22:05
systemdletegood, thanks22:06
rwpSometimes though they release updated kernels of the same version to be installed on top of the existing kernels.  Those do replace each other.22:06
systemdletedo I need just the kernel package, or will I need to also install something else (I forget this)22:06
rwpI don't approve of that since it can cause problems depending upon how they handle things.  If they get it right then fine.  But too often they have not.22:06
rwpDo you still have the linux-image .deb file in your /var/cache/apt/archives directory?22:07
systemdleteso I shouldn't try installing -14?22:07
rwpIf so then you could install it again and try it again.22:07
systemdleteI will look...22:07
fsmithredI don't have any old kernel debs. Just other stuff.22:07
systemdleteno kernel debs in my archives either (except other pacakges)22:09
fsmithredlooks like everthing back to -11 is still in the repo22:09
rwpI don't happen to have that kernel around either.  I also don't see it at snapshot.debian.net making me wonder...22:10
systemdletesadly, I don't have a VM snapshot either...22:10
systemdlete(sometimes I do have those laying around)22:10
fsmithredI just downloaded -1122:11
rwpCorrection, sorry, http://snapshot.debian.org/ doesn't list it either.22:11
systemdleteWhen I tried to install -14, I got a bunch of hash mismatch error messagse22:11
fsmithredI can't try to intsall -14 because it's still there.22:12
systemdletethis time, maybe it is working...22:12
systemdleteflakey, if so22:12
rwplinux-image-5.10.0-14-amd64 definitely existed because I had installed it on 2022-05-27.  Therefore there must be an archive of it somewhere.22:13
systemdleteI wonder if NSO is busy in our repos22:13
fsmithredit should work, and it should not remove the -16 kernel.22:13
systemdleteagain, it does seem to be doing something atm22:13
systemdleteoooh.22:14
systemdleteI just checked df on my /home and it is under 1G22:14
fsmithredthat's tight22:14
systemdleteI do have about 15 tabs open in the browser on this VM (a chimaera, not star)22:14
systemdleteyeah, possibly.22:14
systemdletebut I am not seeing errors about space22:14
systemdletejust those "channel" errors, which might be indicative of such a thing, idk22:15
fsmithredshould be more than 5% free22:15
systemdletemy /home is about 2.5G, 59% used22:16
fsmithredoh22:16
systemdleteinstall of -14 kernel is stuck at 20% for about the last 5 minutes22:16
systemdlete(unpacking)22:16
systemdletejust advanced, nvm22:17
fsmithredtook me a minute at least. 100Mb/s down speed here.22:17
rwpAh, found it, you can download that kernel from here: http://deb.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN-SECURITY/updates/main/l/linux-signed-amd64/linux-image-5.10.0-14-amd64_5.10.113-1_amd64.deb22:17
rwpFound from https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/package-query.html?c=package&q=linux-image-5.10.0-14-amd64=5.10.113-122:17
systemdleteI'm supposedly 400 down22:17
systemdletedone!22:17
systemdleteok, give me a moment to reboot.  bbs22:17
rwpWait... You already had a deb of it?  I missed that.  Sorry.22:18
systemdletebak22:22
systemdletetesting now under -1422:22
systemdletecrud.  crashed22:23
systemdleteso not the kernel22:23
fsmithredcheck power supply and memory?22:23
systemdleteI have my PCs on UPS's22:23
fsmithredI mean check internal voltages and do memtest22:24
fsmithredor try ff from a live usb22:25
systemdleteVM has 3.84 G memory, using about 1G of it with FF running.   Disk space barely budging on /home22:26
systemdletethe /tmp has nearly 2G and only using 1% of that22:26
systemdleteother fs look ok I think22:26
systemdleteit has been very hot here for a few days now and I am not running A/C22:29
rwpIt's a VM so that seems less likely the problem.  I would be inclined to purge --autoremove firefox-esr and perhaps *curl* too since it was implicated then install all again.22:29
systemdleterwp:  good idea.  Will proceed to do so now.  Do you think a reboot is in order?22:30
systemdleteI'm thnking: test reinstalled ff and tb before reboot, then try them after rebooting to -16 kernel22:30
systemdleteapt purge firefox thunderbird curl gives me:  E: The package cache file is corrupted, it has the wrong hash22:31
rwpWell...  That's a BIG CLUE.22:31
rwpI would also look at this list "dpkg -l | grep ^rc" and purge those off to clean up too.  (No idea what you will find there.)22:31
systemdleteI DID mention that I had gotten a bunch of hash mismatch errors when I first tried to install -14 kernel, but not the 2nd time22:32
rwpMaybe you are having RAM problems after all...22:33
systemdleteok... so I could run a memtest but I will of course have to shut this down22:33
systemdletefor hours22:33
fsmithredprobably check smart first. That only takes a few minutes.22:34
fsmithredseconds...   smartctl -a /dev/sda22:34
systemdleteon the host? or vm?22:34
systemdleteI mean, the VM does not really support smart22:34
fsmithredoh, on the host22:35
fsmithredsame with the memtest22:35
fsmithredfor temps, put some temp display on the desktop so you can watch it. But usually, overheating just causes shutdown.22:36
rwpLook in the host /var/log/syslog and /var/log/kern.log for anything that looks like problems.22:37
systemdleteyeah, just looked through the hosts's kern and message logs22:39
systemdleteI know of a few error messages to look for in case of drive issues, like ata error messages.  I don't see any of those.22:40
systemdleteI don't see any recent messages that indicate hardware issues.22:40
systemdleteAnd I looked back a few hundred lines22:40
systemdleteskimmed22:40
systemdletefsmithred, I looked at smart output on host, but I always forget which ones to look for.  I usually look for remapped blocks and see if the pool is exhausted22:42
systemdleteand thanks to the lack of standards, it is hard to figure which cells are important for a particular drive type22:42
fsmithredage and reallocated sectors are good ones to check.22:42
systemdleterealloc'd are the sparing ones I mentioned22:43
systemdlete(what I meant by remapped)22:43
fsmithredyeah, I figured. It should be zero.22:43
systemdletethey are, on both drives.  But "age" -- many cells are type old_age, but I think that is their type, not their status22:45
systemdlete(I'm really not sure)22:45
fsmithredpower-on hours22:46
systemdleteand I would think I'd be seeing those awful console messages indicating terrible problems with the drive(s)--not to mention long lags and knocking noises from the drives, if a problem exists.22:46
systemdletethat's been my experience...22:46
systemdleteone's around 8,000 hours, and the other about 15,000 hours22:47
systemdleteWhen I disabled the hardware acceleration in FF, I got some really ugly artifacts from the video... and they didn't go away immediately.  I'm wondering if my video card might be the issue?22:50
systemdleteIt's a couple years old, maybe 3.22:50
_ds_That's possible. Are you seeing odd artefacts from time to time?22:50
_ds_(other than those videos)22:51
systemdlete_ds_, thanks for helping.  Yeah, I notice a lot of "flashes"22:51
systemdletesorry, when I said "video" I meant the screen, not youtube videos etc22:51
systemdletekeep in mind, most of my work is inside VMs22:52
systemdlete(but not all VMs are using graphical UIs, like appliances)22:52
_ds_Had a problem with one card not long ago – I was seeing some issues with tiling in certain situations. Random blocks of colour overlaid, but a clear pattern – 4×4 tiles, each 8×8 pixels22:54
_ds_That kind of thing Just Happening without changes in relevant software… hardware problem.22:55
_ds_Can also cause odd segfaults…22:57
systemdleteso you replaced it?22:57
_ds_Definitely grab another graphics card for testing.22:57
_ds_Yes.22:57
_ds_Problems went away immediately.22:57
systemdlete:)22:57
_ds_(At least prices are somewhere nearer sane these days.)22:57
systemdleteok, well when I take this PC down for memtest, I can try installing another card.  I think I have a spare here.22:58
_ds_I remember, some years ago, memory suddenly failing. Caused immediate and severe problems with trying to run most things (file systems survived, though); memtest spewed a lot of errors.23:01
systemdleteA few months back, I was having some funky problem, and people here suggested memtest.  So I did that, but after about 12 hours, no errors.  So I rebooted and carried on.  A little while later some updates came through and those seemed to fix it all.23:02
systemdletebut, hw can be the issue.  Speaking of which...23:02
systemdletewhile I was typing that long trope, I saw my open web page suddenly artifact itself, then refresh.23:03
systemdleteagain, plenty of memory, and plenty of disk space.23:03
systemdletecan't locate the card23:04
fsmithred?23:08
systemdletefsmithred, I meant that I couldn't find that spare video card23:09
systemdleteI was certain I had an extra here23:09
systemdleteIn the old days, I'd hop the bus and proceed directly to Fry's... but they are no more.  :(23:12
systemdleteI can go to the Best Buy near me... but I hate shopping in that place.  That company is a mess.23:12
systemdleteI don't even know if they have an ordinary video card that doesn't cost $600 in the store.23:13
systemdleteI wonder if moving the card to another pci slot might help.   And maybe cleaning the connectors.23:14
systemdletesometimes that also does miracles.23:14
systemdletebut only sometimes.23:14
systemdleteFOUND IT23:19
systemdleteok23:19
systemdletethanks to everyone who chimed in with suggestions.23:19
systemdleteI will shut down the PC now and run memtest while I hike over to Best Buy and see if they have video cards.  If not, I will try the one here--the problem is I am not even sure what it is.  Probably the only way to know is to insert it and boot with it.23:20
systemdletebbl23:21

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