| eyalroz | and updates occasionally overriding this somehow | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| rwp | eyalroz, Remove the packaged version of firefox and then apps cannot start it. Only your upstream Mozilla Firefox will remain. | 00:06 |
| rwp | Where did you put the firefox.desktop file? I put it at ~/.local/share/applications/firefox.desktop for me. | 00:08 |
| rwp | There is also the ~/.config/mimeapps.list which sets the "default browser" too. | 00:09 |
| rwp | Personally I did not like Mozilla's placement of /opt/firefox since that is a system level directory and Mozilla's Firefox updates as a user update. | 00:10 |
| rwp | Therefore I located it in ~/var/firefox instead and made that path adjustment throughout with a symlink in $HOME/bin/firefox to ../var/firefox/firefox | 00:11 |
| hightower2 | maybe the apps tried to run sensible-browser which is controlled by debian-alternatives? | 00:11 |
| rwp | That way everything is self-contained in $HOME. | 00:11 |
| hightower2 | so you sometimes got two versions... | 00:12 |
| rwp | hightower2, You are likely correct. Which is why removing the packaged version is needed to avoid it. That will update the alternatives. | 00:12 |
| hightower2 | yes but alternatives aren't updated on updates. So if he configured the alternative to the same place, it'd work? And if he really wanted to make sure, he could dpkg-divert /usr/bin/firefox ? | 00:13 |
| rwp | alternatives are updated on install and remove/purge though so purging firefox or firefox-esr would remove the alternative entirely. | 00:14 |
| rwp | I haven't had the problem myself of things trying to start the current alternative: update-alternatives --display www-browser | 00:14 |
| hightower2 | well yes but he'd never do that | 00:14 |
| hightower2 | (if it worked correctly all the time) | 00:14 |
| rwp | Which I see is lynx because I removed the packaged version of firefox. | 00:14 |
| rwp | Hmm... Ahem... Nothing works correctly all of the time. Sigh. | 00:15 |
| rwp | Looking at /usr/bin/sensible-browser after it tries various things if those fail it says: printf "Set the BROWSER environment variable to your desired browser.\n" | 00:16 |
| rwp | So one can force a particular browser by setting BROWSER in the environment. Probably best to set that in the ~/.sessionrc file. | 00:17 |
| hightower2 | good one | 00:17 |
| rwp | That way it can be set to a graphical browser in X but won't be set if using ssh to log in with a terminal. | 00:17 |
| eyalroz | rwp: Actually, my alternative for www-browser is links2, somehow | 00:40 |
| eyalroz | even with firefox installed | 00:40 |
| eyalroz | rwp: BROWSER is an interesting idea. | 00:40 |
| eyalroz | When does ~/.sessionrc get run though? | 00:41 |
| eyalroz | rwp: About _removing_ firefox - that removes a browser icon from my cinnamon start menu left bar; and the Menu Editor doesn't seem to let me add a different icon there | 00:49 |
| linux_n | In xfburn when i click burn image i get error -->burn mode is not currently implemented. | 00:57 |
| linux_n | How do i fix this? | 00:57 |
| rwp | eyalroz, ~/.xsessionrc is loaded by /etc/X11/Xsession at X start. In /etc/X11/Xsession.d/40x11-common_xsessionrc | 00:59 |
| rwp | eyalroz, Re: removing from the start menu... That's why I asked about where you installed your firefox.desktop file. | 01:00 |
| rwp | I put it at ~/.local/share/applications/firefox.desktop for me. | 01:00 |
| rwp | Then it will appear in the desktop menu. | 01:00 |
| rrq | linux_n: did you check https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=339720 | 01:00 |
| rwp | linux_n, Sorry but I know nothing about xfburn. | 01:01 |
| gnarface | linux_n: my initial searching suggests there should be a "refresh" button | 01:01 |
| linux_n | ya the refresh seem to make it work just now i get the selected image does not fit on the inserted disc. I guess i have to find a disc with bigger gb. Thanks | 01:11 |
| gnarface | np | 01:12 |
| spine-o-saurus | hay what is the package for lua? i've installed liblua5.3 but when I type 'lua' it says command not found | 11:05 |
| Joril | for the record: lua5.3 | 11:23 |
| onefang | lua5.3 in this case. Or lua-any. You could also install 5.4. | 11:23 |
| onefang | SNAP! | 11:23 |
| Joril | :D | 11:23 |
| oscareczek | gnarface: I actually forgot that I should see what's happening on another X230 with Artix + OpenRC, on that acpi_listen sends the same events for mic mute and ThinkVantage as on Debian | 16:53 |
| oscareczek | so it's not really systemd…? | 16:54 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: that is interesting, but there's gotta be some other difference.... if you're actually on debian stable and devuan stable and they're behaving differently, start looking at package versions... most of them should be the same so that should reduce the possible suspects | 17:40 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: to be honest my first guess is that either the devuan or debian install isn't actually the stable version, or there are backports packages mixed in with one but not the other, or the upgrade was incomplete, something like that | 17:41 |
| gnarface | something has to be causing it and devuan only actually even changes a small handful of the total packages (the rest are actually served by http redirect; they're not even mirrored copies) | 17:41 |
| oscareczek | well, I don't have Debian anymore, so I can't check that | 17:42 |
| gnarface | hmm | 17:42 |
| gnarface | the only other major difference is permissions | 17:43 |
| gnarface | systemd will grant blanket open access to all devices for any local user | 17:43 |
| gnarface | which is quite insecure, but does also mitigate some complications | 17:43 |
| gnarface | so... is it a fancy keyboard or something? | 17:43 |
| gnarface | something that may have extra /dev/ nodes that might not all be properly represented in udev or something like that? | 17:44 |
| gnarface | there's really only so many possibilities | 17:44 |
| gnarface | the systemd permissions thing allows you to ignore a lot of udev rules errors | 17:44 |
| oscareczek | I think it's just PS/2, but how do I double-check? | 17:45 |
| gnarface | it was a real struggle for me to get my Steam Controller working until i realized that Valve doesn't know how it fucking works either and so i learned to fix busted udev rules | 17:45 |
| gnarface | good question on how to check though with ps/2... if it were USB it might cough up some notes about which dev nodes it's using in dmesg on hotplug but not sure about ps/2 | 17:46 |
| gnarface | i mean if it's ps/2 it's probably nothing fancy but if it's USB it could theoretically even be using multiple /dev/ nodes and some may be virtually spawned based on userspace interactions | 17:47 |
| gnarface | (another Steam Controller peculiarity) | 17:47 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 17:48 |
| gnarface | although... | 17:48 |
| gnarface | one idea that comes to mind, you could just diff the list of devices and their permissions that show up in /dev/ between the devuan and artix install | 17:48 |
| gnarface | if the artix one is working right and it is a permissions issue, there should be some obvious discrepancy with regards to user/group permissions on relevant devices | 17:49 |
| oscareczek | artix https://paste.asie.pl/Nq9B devuan https://paste.asie.pl/CrP1 | 17:51 |
| gnarface | uh, please use paste.debian.net | 17:51 |
| gnarface | i'm paranoid of strange urls | 17:52 |
| gnarface | udev/eudev might be a key difference here if it's something to do with device creation or permission | 17:52 |
| oscareczek | devuan https://pastebin.com/qsRDJNmt | 17:52 |
| gnarface | come on that's not paste.debian.net either | 17:52 |
| oscareczek | artix https://pastebin.com/NUk1MGzf | 17:53 |
| oscareczek | c'mon you're just paranoid, everyone knows pastebin | 17:53 |
| gnarface | i know pastebin too well | 17:53 |
| gnarface | they're an ad supported site and if you knew what they were doing with them you wouldn't go there either | 17:53 |
| oscareczek | using the web without any adblocker is impossible regardless | 17:54 |
| gnarface | no banner ads on paste.debian.net | 17:54 |
| oscareczek | and it's just ls -lR, I don't care where this data goes | 17:54 |
| oscareczek | for me paste.debian.net is as trusted as paste.asie.pl is for you | 17:54 |
| gnarface | just /msg it to me then and be patient while the flood control lets it trickle through | 17:54 |
| oscareczek | if you really wish, but you're way too paranoid | 17:55 |
| APic | Hi! | 17:58 |
| * APic needs to compile DopeWars: checking for GTK+ - version >= 2.0.0... Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. | 17:58 | |
| APic | What Package do i need to install to fix this Dependency please? | 17:58 |
| brocashelm | apic: i think it's libgtk-2.0-dev | 17:59 |
| APic | brocashelm: Thank You very much! | 18:00 |
| brocashelm | np | 18:00 |
| * APic got distracted by the + | 18:00 | |
| brocashelm | :P | 18:01 |
| APic | 😉 | 18:02 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: two other things just occurred to me: 1) the permissions thing could tangentially be affected by not having any xorg.conf and relying on its auto-detect feature 2) the relevant nodes might actually be in /dev/input/ | 18:02 |
| APic | Unfortunately, libgtk-2.0-dev does not exist here | 18:02 |
| APic | daedalus/ceres | 18:02 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: and a third thing just occurred to me as i noticed "vboxusb" scrolling by in your paste... is this keyboard misbehavior you're experiencing happening in a VM on either machine? | 18:03 |
| gnarface | virtual machine behavior is often a forgotten culprit | 18:04 |
| APic | Ah | 18:05 |
| * APic already has libgtk2.0-dev/testing,now installed | 18:05 | |
| * APic actually just tries to build DopeWars to run a Server | 18:06 | |
| APic | checking for GTK+ - version >= 2.0.0... Package gtk+-2.0 was not found in the pkg-config search path. | 18:06 |
| APic | Perhaps you should add the directory containing `gtk+-2.0.pc' | 18:06 |
| APic | /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/gtk+-2.0.pc contains it | 18:06 |
| gnarface | APic: you sure you got pkg-config installed? | 18:06 |
| APic | Not yet | 18:07 |
| APic | Thanks a Bunch! | 18:07 |
| APic | Now it works! Absolutely epic! | 18:07 |
| APic | *purrrrrrr* 😸 =^.^= | 18:07 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: ah, and a fourth thing just occurred to me that might be different in devuan from artix; artix installs non-free firmware by default doesn't it? debian and devuan do not but you might have installed it in debian so long ago you'd forgotten | 18:08 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: the user you're testing this with is in the "input" group on both the artix and devuan installs, right? | 18:17 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: and also about the xorg.conf; are you using one on either install, even a partial one? or is one of them using xorg and the other wayland or something like that? | 18:18 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: i did just notice a permission discrepancy that shouldn't matter but the fact it's even there does draw suspicion to the udev rules being relevant: on artix you have 0660 permission for /dev/uinput but on devuan you have 0600 for it | 18:27 |
| gnarface | (i doubt your keyboard uses that but the steam controller sure does) | 18:28 |
| oscareczek | libgtk2.0-dev | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | because my answer was correct, not his | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | host on both | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | it's for usb passthrough I think | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | as for 1, neither have xorg.conf, Artix has a config to set globally Polish layout, but that's about it | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | as for 2, well, what about it? | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | it's a slightly different machine, but Parabola has no problems with these keys on X201 | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | so I don't believe in non-free here | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | besides, firmware-iwlwifi stayed during migration | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | so it's not like my non-free stuff disappeared | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | both are xorg | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | as for input group, I was excited because it wasn't the case on Devuan, but adding it didn't change anything | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | I rebooted ofc | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | I have this on Artix, as I mentioned before: Section "InputClass" \n Identifier "system-keyboard" \n MatchIsKeyboard "on" \n Option "XkbLayout" "pl" \n EndSection | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | I can add it, but I don't really know if it changes much, on Plasma I just set it through Plasma settings and also, again, it worked before removing systemd, so that shouldn't be relevant | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | on both machines group is root, so I'd call it double irrelevant since neither users are in that | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | but actually, what's more intriguing to me is this plus at the end | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | getfacl has rw on my user on Artix | 18:34 |
| oscareczek | will check if that does anything in a while, laptop is currently used | 18:34 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: the xorg.conf could be relevant for the same reason the input group could be relevant; if you've got no corekeyboard definition you need to give yourself permission for the keyboard by putting yourself in the input group | 18:50 |
| gnarface | you said you're in the input group on both installs or not? | 18:50 |
| gnarface | similarly, extraneous input devices (like for example if perhaps the extra buttons show up as a separate input device) should default to the "input" group but if they don't (the Steam Controller didn't until i fixed the udev rules) then you won't have access to them unless xorg thinks they're the "core keyboard" | 18:53 |
| gnarface | ...or you're in the "input" group | 18:53 |
| gnarface | and i don't know what artix does for default groups but on debian/devun iirc you would not be in it by default for a fresh install anyway | 18:54 |
| gnarface | and both your artix and devuan permissions show that the entirety of /dev/input/ is restricted to only root or the input group | 18:54 |
| gnarface | again, we're just looking for any possible differences here | 18:55 |
| gnarface | it would help a lot to know exactly which of these /dev/ nodes controls the buttons in question | 18:55 |
| oscareczek | currently both users are in input group | 18:56 |
| oscareczek | removing this part of xorg.conf from Artix didn't break anything, I don't need it actually now that I think about it | 18:58 |
| gnarface | what does the xorg log say about the keyboard on both of them? | 19:00 |
| gnarface | using libinput in both cases? | 19:00 |
| oscareczek | Artix has something called ThinkPad Extra Buttons handled by libinput, /dev/input/event5 | 19:02 |
| gnarface | ah, now that right there sounds likely to be related | 19:02 |
| oscareczek | as for Devuan, where is the log? I thought it'd be in /var/log, but I can't see it | 19:02 |
| oscareczek | nvm wrong machine | 19:03 |
| gnarface | if you're not running xorg as root the log is now in ~/.local/share/xorg/ | 19:03 |
| gnarface | it does still go in /var/log/ if you're running xorg as root but you pretty much only have to now for nvidia official closed-source drivers | 19:03 |
| oscareczek | on Devuan, I can see this: | 19:04 |
| oscareczek | [ 65.444] (II) event7 - ThinkPad Extra Buttons: is tagged by udev as: Keyboard Switch | 19:04 |
| oscareczek | [ 65.444] (II) event7 - ThinkPad Extra Buttons: device is a keyboard | 19:04 |
| oscareczek | [ 65.444] (II) event7 - ThinkPad Extra Buttons: device removed | 19:04 |
| oscareczek | oh, wait, it's the same on Artix | 19:04 |
| oscareczek | these logs look the same except for the numbers, Artix has: | 19:05 |
| oscareczek | [ 65.460] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/input/input8/event7" | 19:05 |
| oscareczek | [ 65.460] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "ThinkPad Extra Buttons" (type: KEYBOARD, id 13) | 19:05 |
| oscareczek | …that's a lie, that was Devuan | 19:06 |
| oscareczek | Artix has: | 19:06 |
| oscareczek | [ 9.410] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/platform/thinkpad_acpi/input/input7/event5" | 19:06 |
| oscareczek | [ 9.411] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "ThinkPad Extra Buttons" (type: KEYBOARD, id 12) | 19:06 |
| gnarface | do you have the firmware-linux-free package on devuan? | 19:07 |
| oscareczek | yes | 19:07 |
| gnarface | do you have the synaptics input driver installed on either system? | 19:08 |
| oscareczek | neither | 19:09 |
| gnarface | you sure? | 19:09 |
| oscareczek | yes | 19:09 |
| gnarface | https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/rrbrot/t470_linux_upper_mouse_buttons_and_trackpoint_not/ | 19:10 |
| gnarface | not the same device but i wonder if this is relevant | 19:10 |
| gnarface | try seeing if the buttons magically start working after it wakes from sleep or something | 19:11 |
| gnarface | and maybe check for loose connections | 19:11 |
| oscareczek | 40 series and up don't have these buttons | 19:11 |
| oscareczek | mouse is perfectly fine | 19:11 |
| gnarface | unrelated to that, are the kernel command-line parameters the same on these installs? | 19:11 |
| gnarface | someone else fixed a similar problem with touchpads by using this command-line parameter: psmouse.synaptics_intertouch=0 | 19:12 |
| gnarface | i know that won't help but maybe there's one like it that would | 19:12 |
| oscareczek | devuan has ro net.ifnames=0 quiet splash i915.fastboot=1, artix has rw quiet splash mitigations=off, I don't think anything here is relevant | 19:12 |
| oscareczek | and again, mouse is absolutely 100% fine | 19:12 |
| oscareczek | afk | 19:12 |
| gnarface | what's mitigations=off? | 19:12 |
| oscareczek | disable spectre fixes and such | 19:12 |
| gnarface | hmm | 19:12 |
| gnarface | yea, try the thing about letting it sleep then see if the buttons start working after it wakes up | 19:14 |
| gnarface | something has to be different but at this point i'm out of ideas | 19:15 |
| gnarface | artix probably has a different acpid and kernel version than devuan stable so that could enter into it | 19:20 |
| gnarface | you could try the backports kernel to see if it magically fixes anything | 19:21 |
| oscareczek | I mean, I could, but on Debian with 5.10 it worked, so I don't see how that would change anything | 19:22 |
| gnarface | i know it's a long shit | 19:25 |
| gnarface | long shot* | 19:25 |
| gnarface | but there's no acpid in backports so we can't try that | 19:25 |
| oscareczek | if I `apt install linux-image-amd64/stable-backports`, it will upgrade normally through backports over time, right? | 19:27 |
| gnarface | uh... theoretically but i thought there was no kernel meta-package in backports | 19:27 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure that's really what you'd want anyway | 19:27 |
| gnarface | you'd ideally want the stable kernel to stay installed and keep getting regular updates in case you needed to go back to it for some reason | 19:28 |
| gnarface | last time we went around and around about something like this i think i recall that what happened was it ultimately turned out to be a held package that the debian->devuan upgrade process had silently skipped due to a bizarre datestamp style version string | 19:29 |
| oscareczek | I don't see anything held though | 19:30 |
| gnarface | it was silent because the version looked higher | 19:30 |
| oscareczek | oh, like that | 19:30 |
| oscareczek | is there a command for checking what is misversioned against repos? | 19:31 |
| gnarface | i think it turned out to be something from backports in fact, and that user had also sworn up and down they'd never used backports; they had simply forgotten, perhaps it had been held since a previous debian release | 19:31 |
| gnarface | sometimes with firmware and stuff it's easy not to notice | 19:31 |
| gnarface | let's see, an easy way to do that, i'm not sure... | 19:31 |
| gnarface | well you can check versions at pkginfo.devuan.org though | 19:32 |
| oscareczek | well, I won't compare packages one by one :P | 19:32 |
| gnarface | no i don't blame you | 19:32 |
| golinux | kolofon: Let me have a look in admin. | 19:33 |
| golinux | I just responded to your post on dev1galaxy. Please have a look. | 19:33 |
| gnarface | primary suspects would be anything with a datestamp for a version or some weird long git version suffix after the - or ~ | 19:33 |
| gnarface | if you run "dpkg -l" they might readily stand out | 19:33 |
| gnarface | the devuan-forked packages will all have "devuan" in there | 19:34 |
| oscareczek | or chimaera as I can see | 19:34 |
| gnarface | hmm, maybe so | 19:35 |
| gnarface | but the version checks are simple string comparisons only slightly more complex than a base alphabetical order check, so anything that's not in a N.N.N-N format can choke it up | 19:35 |
| gnarface | backports stuff is a common culprit | 19:36 |
| oscareczek | I don't see anything with bpo, ~ doesn't show anything relevant to input and as expected, looking for - is impossible | 19:36 |
| oscareczek | as in, I can grep - -, it's just way too much | 19:36 |
| golinux | kolofon: That address is not in the git database. If you have not been there in a long time, perhaps you did not re-register after we transitioned from gitlab to gitea? | 19:37 |
| gnarface | hmm, i wonder if trying a dist-upgrade with --verbose-versions might actually turn something up | 19:37 |
| golinux | I will check for a user name. | 19:37 |
| kolofon | @golinux i'm reading your answer on the forum. | 19:38 |
| oscareczek | 0 results for `apt dist-upgrade --verbose-versions` | 19:39 |
| * golinux goes to grab some tea | 19:39 | |
| gnarface | oscareczek: i think someone had a better way to do this but i can't recall exactly; "apt list [package name]" is a start but i think there was some even better method mentioned a long time ago | 19:45 |
| gnarface | maybe aptitude can help | 19:45 |
| oscareczek | I don't really such an option there as well | 19:55 |
| gnarface | i'm sorry i don't remember what the easy way to do this was | 19:57 |
| gnarface | i just remember i was half way to writing a script to run them one at a time in a loop when someone popped in and mentioned an easy way | 19:58 |
| oscareczek | hmm, I've googled a little bit more, there's this https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Microphone_Mute_Button | 20:15 |
| oscareczek | the path it mentioned is old, but f20 is defined on both machines in /lib/udev/hwdb.d/60-keyboard.hwdb | 20:15 |
| oscareczek | and both machines have udevd running | 20:16 |
| spine-o-saurus | hay I installed liblua5.3 but when i type 'lua' it says command not found | 20:18 |
| onefang_ | Ah you didn't stick around for an answer last time you asked that. | 20:19 |
| onefang_ | [19:05:32] <spine-o-saurus> hay what is the package for lua? i've installed liblua5.3 but when I type 'lua' it says command not found | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | [19:15:13] * spine-o-saurus has quit (Quit: Leaving) | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | [19:17:57] * brocashelm (~brocashel@user/brocashelm) has joined | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | [19:18:54] * kolofon has quit (Quit: kolofon) | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | [19:23:35] <Joril> for the record: lua5.3 | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | [19:23:37] <onefang> lua5.3 in this case. Or lua-any. You could also install 5.4. | 20:20 |
| spine-o-saurus | ya i had to leave, was the package the same? | 20:20 |
| onefang_ | And now I'm off to sleep. | 20:20 |
| oscareczek | replacing /lib/udev/hwdb.bin completely fixes the buttons, but I have a strong feeling this file regenerates automatically on update | 20:22 |
| golinux | onefang: Isn't it just about to be morning where you are | 20:23 |
| spine-o-saurus | sounds like a vampiresh kinda name though | 20:24 |
| onefang | 4:30 AM, I keep odd hours. All this chatting with people all over theplanet. lol | 20:25 |
| gnarface | oscareczek: well good work narrowing it down... if the difference is that the eudev one doesn't work and the udev one works, you should report this to bugs.devuan.org | 21:09 |
| oscareczek | okay, done, thank you | 21:33 |
| spine-o-saurus | i linked net.eth0 to net.lo, but when it boots up it says config_eth0 not specified; defaulting to DHCP? | 22:17 |
| spine-o-saurus | is that right? | 22:17 |
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