libera/#devuan/ Friday, 2022-08-05

gnarfaceeyalroz: what do you get as a result for: dpkg -l |grep icon\-theme00:12
eyalrozgnarface:00:13
eyalrozii  adwaita-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  breeze-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  deepsea-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  gnome-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  hicolor-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  mate-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  oxygen-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  papirus-icon-theme00:13
eyalrozii  tango-icon-theme00:13
gnarfacecareful don't get flood kicked00:14
eyalrozgnarface: Well, you asked...00:14
gnarfacelooks like you have plenty00:14
gnarfacei'm not sure how to set one specifically in cinnamon00:14
Unit193But no elementary-xfce-icon-theme!00:25
systemdletemore fun with apt updates.  I've seen these messages before, but ignored them.   Here is a sample, but it occurs for about a dozen packages:  "dpkg: warning: files list file for package 'libmodule-runtime-perl' missing; assuming package has no files currently installed"00:27
systemdleteThe message seems to go away if I run apt update/apt upgrade again.  Of course, that may not be a good test.  However, if I run apt reinstall <pkgname> I will see the messages again.  Apt does finish ok, though, it seems.00:28
eyalrozWell, looks like locating an icon via in the menu item properties dialog - helps.00:29
rwpeyalroz, The flood kicker is a global Libera.Chat mechanism and not specific to any one channel.  Someone might ask for data but then expect a paste URL back.00:49
rwpsystemdlete, /var/lib/dpkg/info/libmodule-runtime-perl.list is missing on your system?  How could that happen?00:50
YugiohMaster88hello im new to using devuan and i was just wondering how do i start and stop services on devuan through the terminal?05:08
GoatAvengerYugiohMaster88, I'm no expert, but I think you want the command (/etc/init.d/serviceinquestion start|stop|restart|etc..)05:09
GoatAvengerif you are using sysV, anyway05:10
GoatAvengerwhich is the default, I believe05:10
YugiohMaster88ah ok thank you very much05:10
GoatAvengernp05:10
rwpGoatAvenger, FYI: service is /usr/sbin/service.  So "sudo service fooname stop" and "service fooname restart" so forth.05:41
rwpBTW...  Has anyone ever mused that there is a stop and a start and a restart but no restop? :-)05:42
* GoatAvenger chuckles05:42
GoatAvengerrwp, /etc/init.d/yadada are the scripts themselves the init system uses, then..?05:42
GoatAvengerthink i answered my own question05:42
ltsAdditional recommendation: sysv-rc-conf is nice for enabling services by using an interface05:51
ltsDoesn't start them but enables them to start during boot05:52
ltsACtually, looks like it can start/stop them immediatelly with + and - keys. Nice.05:53
rwpGoatAvenger, Yes.  /etc/init.d/* are the scripts themselves.  But if you run them directly then they inherit your command line environment.06:25
rwpYour current working directory.  Your environment variables.  Your ssh-agent connection.  All of that.  Which is not desirable because it is not the boot time environment.06:26
GoatAvengerrwp, therefore it's best to use, 'service serviceinquestion start|stop|run?'06:26
rwpThe "service" command cleans all of those things before calling the actual scripts.  That's why it is the recommended way.  But whether it is really needed or not depends upon the service script.06:27
GoatAvengergood to know.  I forget the conventions, I think, when the switch to systemd was made06:27
GoatAvengerand then switching back06:27
rwpIf I am debugging things then I will call the /etc/init.d script directly with "sudo sh -x /etc/init.d/foo start" so as to trace things.  But as a normal course of events I will use service to clean up my env first.06:29
onefangWhen using the service command keep in mind this bit from it's man page - "The existence of a systemd unit of the same name as a script in /etc/init.d will cause the unit to take precedence over the init.d script."07:03
onefangsysv-rc-conf FTW.07:04
funlw65 /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER funlw65 6GcG3lJc8P3XtNGW07:23
funlw65 /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER funlw65 6GcG3lJc8P3XtNGW07:24
onefangOops, you just told everyone what your password is.07:27
Unit193Nope, it's only a verification ID.07:27
funlw65The problem is, the veryfication ID can't be sent directly on the server, you have to be on a channel...08:24
funlw65Or I don't know, new to IRC.08:25
Unit193I mean, it's usually a good idea to have your client focused on the status window when doing that.08:26
onefangMaybe no space in front?08:30
funlw65I've sent yesterday the verification ID only to come today with the message that the ID is not verified... Tried to do it from there but requested to join a channel first...08:34
funlw65After joining, instead of going back to status window, I've sent the message from here :P . Well, sent it again from the status window and it says (again) that the ID is now verified. Will see (I apologize, I hate to be off-topic).08:36
Unit193funlw65: You're now verified, congrats!08:39
limutooHello Devuan tribe.09:34
systemdleterwp:  beats me.  I just ran apt upgrade and got those messages about the missing info files09:35
systemdleteis there a way to re-establish them (aside from reinstalling the problem packages)?09:35
systemdleteI mean, does apt have a fix-up mode that tests for and corrects inconsistencies?09:36
systemdlete(rpm had an audit feature like that, iirc, or maybe yum, idr)09:36
systemdletebeep makes no sound.  "apulse /usr/bin/beep" makes no sound.  "apulse -l 250 -f 300" makes no sound.10:53
systemdleteBUT10:53
systemdleteaplay /usr/share/sounds/alsa/Front_Center.wav works just fine10:53
systemdletebeep broken?10:53
systemdlete(no pulse here!)10:54
djphsystemdlete: 'beep' uses (is supposed to use) pcspkr.  lotta distros disable it ...10:57
systemdletehmmm.  Interesting.  beep was installed by default in devuan, or by some other package via dependency.10:58
systemdletedjph, any alternative that is simple?10:58
systemdleteyears ago, "beep" worked.  Like a lot of stuff did.  Then they improved the system.  And now it does not work.10:59
djphsystemdlete: assuming your machine HAS a pcspkr (the little piezo on the motherboard), then it might be blacklisted or something11:03
systemdleteit does have one, yes.11:03
systemdleteand it works.11:03
systemdletebut just not for "beep"11:04
djphthen 'beep' should work.  unles your user doesn't have permissions to access the pcspkr11:04
joerg>>[5 Aug 2022 08:24:16] <funlw65> The problem is, the veryfication ID can't be sent directly on the server, you have to be on a channel...<< depends entirely on your IRC client. I'd recommend to open a /QUERY NickServ which is equivalent to the sending a /msg NickServ  but had the advantage that you can't fatfinger-typo stuff and cause disclosure of your credentials14:36
joergin expression: open a new tab or window or whatever the thing on your IRC client, by sending the command /query nickserv which should open a private channel to the nickserv bot for you. There you can go ahead and type plain text without and clumsy /msg bla intro. Try sending a simple %HELP14:40
joergvery convenient and more resilient to typos etc14:42
joergsorry, my typo fatfingering, I meant to say >>Try sending a simple HELP<<14:43
joergscreenshot of such query https://i.imgur.com/cRQ6wKV.png14:46
joerg*sigh* hexchat - notorious for confusing the user by a very creative approach to what message text goes which tab14:53
joerg(pc) beep is a very weird tricky thing, iirc an IOCTL call to the keyboard device15:06
joergit's completely unrelated to anything sound/audio/ALSA/pulse15:07
djphjoerg: yeah, thankfully I got out of using hexchat :)15:07
joergsorry, I got to correct myself: some mainboards support a real tiny speaker (not a piezo beeper) and those mainboards often offer a "beeper" audio channel in hw mixer15:15
djphoh, that's fun15:16
joerge.g. see /usr/share/alsa/init/postinit/01beep.conf (not guaranteed to be same path and filename on your system)15:16
joergin a true console (not a virtual terminal under a window manager), a `echo -en "\007"` *should* trigger the PC beeper15:20
joergxterm and the like usually have a config where user can define what to do when a BELL (\007) gets "printed"15:23
joerg((re: got to correct myself)) likewise mainboards may offer a hw mixer control to mix the TTL squarewave piezo beeper output into the real audio stream to whatever is the "soundcard" on your system15:27
joerghttps://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/ioctl_console.2.html  >> KDMKTONE   Generate tone of specified length.  The lower 16 bits of the unsigned long integer in argp specify the period in clock cycles, and the upper 16 bits give the duration in msec.<<15:32
joergI'm not sure if it's exactly to the point, but obviously sufficiently close to what I recall it to be15:34
joergregarding BEL aka ASCII \007 all the history and stuff in a nutshell, to understand why things are the way they are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_character15:41
golinux<joerg> *sigh* hexchat - notorious for confusing the user by a very creative approach to what message text goes which tab16:03
golinuxIs that why I found messages in a PM from a user that wasn't assigned to that window?16:04
golinuxWhile I've got your attention . . . is there a way to turn off the channel info clutter at the top of the window.  That clutter is really annoying.16:06
golinuxIt used to quicky scroll out of view . . .16:06
joerggolinux: PM is not related to the hexchat "issue". Anybody opening a /query to any arbitrary user (not channel) will usually open a private tab on the addressee's IRC client, no matter if hexchat or any other client. That's the definition of what a /query does, aiui16:15
HelenahAgreed16:16
golinuxBut why would messages from unrelated users share one use's channel16:16
golinuxThat NEVER happened on xchat.16:17
joergin contrary, a /msg <addressee> Some Message Text  and similar type of responses and info messages is not defined in IRC specs where exactly it gets displayed to the user. This is where hexchat has very unique ideas where those get displayed16:20
joergregarding the >>channel info clutter<< I assume you refer to the /topic ? that depends on your IRC client16:21
Helenah/msg is merely an alias to PRIVMSG, the server doesn't see /msg rather it sees PRIVMSG and the /msg alias in itself is coded to have differences depending on client.16:21
joergaah wait, there are also the server or chanserv generated ONJOIN or whatever they're called messages16:25
joerggolinux: this? please check /msg chanserv help set entrymsg16:28
* joerg fails to find out how to check the current setting of chanserv entrymsg16:32
Helenahjoerg: /quote ChanServ HELP or /raw ChanServ HELP16:41
HelenahLook for SET in the list.16:41
joerg/msg chanserv info #devuan  ==>no "[Notice] -ChanServ- Entrymsg   : <whatever message>"16:43
joergso I gather golinux referred to her hexchat displaying the chanel /topic and chanmode settings at /join16:44
joergthis? https://i.imgur.com/zZNnFVg.png16:45
joergI have no idea who triggers this and if/how you could disable it16:46
HelenahDisabling channel topics isn't a good idea, often channel rules and important stuff is specified in them.16:47
joergkonversation IRC client shows the /topic persistently in a separate box on top of the channel tab16:48
joergso I could live without the chat window *** message text16:49
HelenahThere's /topic if you need the topic of a channel at any point, you don't need to keep scrolling up.16:50
golinuxjoerg: Sorry  . . . been in the kitchen16:51
joergand golinux specifically asked >>is there a way to turn off the channel info clutter at the top of the window.  That clutter is really annoying. It used to quicky scroll out of view . . .<< which sounds like a sane rationale for wanting to get rid of it16:51
HelenahAlso be careful using /msg with services, for what you just used it for is fine but there is a risk of sensitive data ending up in the hands of someone masquerading as NickServ or ChanServ, they could get NickServ account credentials and channel passwords.16:51
golinuxI'm talking about the bar with channel into at the top of the message content. Would also be nice to get rid of the verbose join message that goes on and on.16:52
joergHelenah: I recommended using a /query instead16:52
golinuxYes, joerg, you understand.16:52
Helenahjoerg: Why? That's if you want to open a PM window with someone. The vulnerability I spoke of is still there.16:53
golinuxSadly I am in a rush atm so can't stick around. Will read and digest these notes later16:53
joergso please elaborate16:53
joerg^^^ Helenah16:54
HelenahEvery nick that is on this server could be used by anyone including services nicks unless Libera staff have made them unusable so just incase someone masquerades as NickServ or ChanServ, you should use /quote <ServiceName> or /raw <ServiceName>16:55
joerg>><Helenah> Also be careful using /msg with services, ***for what you just used it***…<< what was it "I just used it for"?16:55
HelenahYou need to give me chance to type...16:55
joergHelenah: yes, nobody can use service nicks except the service bots, on libera16:56
HelenahYes but the habit should still be /quote or /raw is my point.16:56
HelenahJust because Libera claim they've protected those nicks, doesn't mean every other IRC network has.16:56
joergsorry, I never heard of that and don't see the benefit16:56
HelenahMore the reason to listen to my security advice then.16:57
HelenahUnless you want to gullibly dump passwords into the hands of people pretending to the services.16:57
joergsecurity by obscurity? when I don't understand why something is needed, then I tend to not use it or - even worse - use it the wrong way and cause more trouble than without16:58
HelenahI'm done supporting you because you're just being stubborn.16:59
joergon lebara network (and freenode, back when) the services nicks are protected and itS' been ages since anybody managed to pull a hack like that16:59
joergHelenah: you're welcome16:59
HelenahYes but you haven't been reading what I've been saying.17:00
HelenahI said once that you've to make /raw and /quote habbit just incase an IRC network isn't protecting those nicks.17:00
joergI'm done arguing with you17:00
HelenahWow rude.17:00
joergHAH17:00
joerg<Helenah> I'm done supporting you because you're just being stubborn.  <joerg> I'm done arguing with you  <Helenah> Wow rude.17:02
joerggolden17:02
HelenahPlease stop!17:02
HelenahThis is a support channel.17:02
joergORLY?17:03
joergI still miss the rationale how a /quote or /raw would provide any whatsoever increased protection against a rogue user squatting on a nick that is commonly associated to a service bot user account17:16
Helenahjoerg: Some IRCd's support aliases that can be pointed to a target (service). On Libera, the vhost "services." is reserved for services meaning nobody else can claim it. So while you're typing /msg NickServ, you're just messaging the NickServ with no checks of who is using that nick while the target of the alias is "NickServ!NickServ@services." instead.17:19
HelenahYou could also just: /msg NickServ@services.17:20
joergwhile a /query nickserv massively increases the chances you avoid leading space typos to disclose whole command parameter messages into an arbitrary public channel, and the https://i.imgur.com/WV6ds05.png "@services.libera.chat" hostmask is a good indication you don't chat to a rogue impersonator and chances you see that hostmask are much higher in a /query dedicated tab17:22
joergand any considerations about "other networks" is basically pointless since you have no way to guesss if that other network has any services at all, and how they're named there17:24
joergparticuly we're on libera network here and users ask "libera related IRC questions"17:24
ltsDear both, surely this is not a matter important enough to spend a fine Friday on. #devuan-offtopic if you really want to continue, please?17:26
Helenahlts: Sure.17:26
joerglts: actually this should go to #libera, since it's libera's own emails and FAQs that recommend /msg nickserv VERIFY foobar etc. When I suggest to use a /query (*without* command/message parameter!) instead, I'm not willing to take bashing about this allegedly would introduce additional risks of impersonating services that apply on other networks only17:49
joergand maybe I'm dull but I still not seen why a /raw or /quote would help with this, and how17:53
joergso yes, take it to #libera please17:53
Helenahjoerg: You need to learn that not every mistake made in a situation is everyone elses but your own fault. We both went offtopic, I don't appreciate this blame game.18:06
joergplease take it to #libera !  last warning. If you want to tell me what you think I to must  learn, you're welconme to do so in a /query18:09
sabas3dghHello23:43
sabas3dghHow could I learn about how to run/stop/reload services in devuan?23:44
debdogsabas3dgh: /etc/init.d/ contains the cripts. /etc/rcX.d/ contains the links for automatically calling the scripts depending on runlevel (the X in rcX.d)23:47
sabas3dghdebdog, anymore information on devuan site (maybe). how to activate-deactivate?23:48
debdogto just stop a service run e.g. "/etc/init.d/slim stop" as root23:48
debdogsame for start and restart23:49
sabas3dghwhat is the usage of rcX.d?23:50
joergthey have the links that tell the init system what to start/stop during boot and shutdown23:51
joergthe links defining runlevel 1 are in rc1.d/ etc23:51
joergaiui23:52
debdoginside each of those dirs are READMEs with an explanation23:52
joerg:-)23:52
joergthere's this command, was it insserv?23:52
debdogfor startup the default runlevel is 2, so look at rc2.d23:52
sabas3dghis it the run service OpenRC? or something else special to devuan?23:54
debdogthe default is System V ini23:54
debdogt23:54
debdogopenrc is availbe, too23:55
debdogit's the one debian used by default in the past. so there still may be some docs on their wiki23:56
joergsabas3dgh: http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/_devuan/_devuan.2022-08-05.log.html#t2022-08-05T05:41:29 ff related23:56

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