| joerg | somehow all my concepts how I wanna do backups fall to dust, with 2TB /home RAID1 and 4TB USB expansion drives. I'm missing the times when a DVD+RW in your optical drive was fine for a few days full unattended automatic backup | 00:51 |
|---|---|---|
| joerg | btrfs FTW | 00:52 |
| joerg | and snapper | 00:53 |
| Xenguy | joerg, It's ready for prime time? | 00:53 |
| joerg | btrfs? | 00:53 |
| joerg | works great for me | 00:53 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, any risks at this point? | 00:53 |
| joerg | none I know of | 00:53 |
| Xenguy | Good to know | 00:53 |
| Xenguy | And it's kind of ZFS'ish IIRC? | 00:53 |
| Xenguy | "It was initially designed at Oracle Corporation in 2007 for use in Linux, and since November 2013, the file system's on-disk format has been declared stable in the Linux kernel." | 00:55 |
| Xenguy | "In 2009, Btrfs was expected to offer a feature set comparable to ZFS, developed by Sun Microsystems.[57] After Oracle's acquisition of Sun in 2009, Mason and Oracle decided to continue with Btrfs development." | 00:57 |
| joerg | unlike [XYZ]FS, btrfs didn't render my system inaccessible yet, then OTOH I don't have it on my root partition (yet) which is a SSD and "small" (/dev/sda2 79G 59G 17G 79% / ) so no problem to backup it very quickly | 01:01 |
| joerg | snapshots are almost as good as a really fast backup feature, just that a fast backup of 2TB doesn't exist | 01:06 |
| * rrq prefers nilfs (nilfs2) as it comes with less advertising :) | 01:06 | |
| rwp | Facebook uses btrfs extensively across its internal datacenter servers. But probably 30,000 machines doing exactly the same thing. | 01:10 |
| rwp | I continue to think ZFS is the best file system for my large storage needs. | 01:12 |
| Guest4792 | Hello, recently I updated devuan stable to catch up packages and "apt-get" stopped working. It prints a sementation fault messge. Any idea what is happen? Thank you. | 08:58 |
| gnarface | something bad | 08:59 |
| gnarface | could be a symptom of a few things | 09:00 |
| gnarface | maybe you have packages from other distros or releases mixed in inappropriately | 09:00 |
| gnarface | or maybe bad ram | 09:00 |
| gnarface | do you have chimaera in your sources.list or the word "stable"? | 09:01 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: I'm not with my PC right now, but I think is "chimera". This detail has implications? | 09:06 |
| lts- | Depends on what was "stable" when you updated last time.. :-) | 09:07 |
| gnarface | yea, if for example you used the word "stable" instead of the actual release name and then the release changed out from underneath you, it might have broken during update, resulting in a mix of both beowulf and chimaera packages - library version mismatches are one possible cause of segfaults | 09:08 |
| Guest4792 | gnarfce: regarding to the ram, this would affect others programas, isn´t it? | 09:08 |
| gnarface | yes, you could likely reliably get segfaults out of something whenever the ram was nearly full | 09:08 |
| gnarface | it might be tricky to cause though still if it's not much bad ram | 09:09 |
| gnarface | you can boot memtest but it's time consuming | 09:10 |
| gnarface | using any packages from other distros? mixing in ubuntu ppa crap is a common mistake that can lead to problems | 09:11 |
| gnarface | or if you used backports in a previous release those packages may be holding newer ones back | 09:11 |
| gnarface | basically, other than bad ram the only likely cause is packages' expected version mismatches | 09:12 |
| gnarface | it would be unlikely for apt-get in the stable release to be segfaulting | 09:12 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: no, I'm not using packages for other distros | 09:12 |
| brocashelm | can you still use aptitude command? | 09:13 |
| gnarface | i've just updated stable on a few machines here and not seeing any problems so far with them, so if it's actually apt-get broken upstream then whatever happened it either happened in the last couple hours or it's only happening on your hardware | 09:13 |
| gnarface | anything weird about the hardware? | 09:13 |
| gnarface | something very old, very new, or rare? | 09:14 |
| gnarface | maybe the bios hasn't been updated? | 09:14 |
| brocashelm | apt-get works for me and i'm on ceres (unstable), so it's probably not an upstream problem | 09:15 |
| Guest4792 | brocashelm: I not probed it. I'll take note | 09:15 |
| brocashelm | my version of apt is 2.5.2devuan1 | 09:15 |
| brocashelm | aptitude is more accurate than apt or apt-get, so running for example aptitude full-upgrade will attempt to match all dependency errors | 09:16 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: but if were a hardware problem would affect other programs. "apt-get" seems the only affected | 09:17 |
| gnarface | like i said, not necessarily | 09:18 |
| gnarface | it would have to be something that used the bad spot in the ram, so programs that don't use much ram are less likely to hit it | 09:18 |
| gnarface | try compiling a kernel or something | 09:19 |
| gnarface | or some game that fills your ram up completely | 09:19 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: I'll probe it. | 09:19 |
| gnarface | does apt-get segfault immediately or at different times? | 09:19 |
| gnarface | i wonder if a file it uses could have gotten corrupted on disk instead | 09:20 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: immediately. | 09:20 |
| gnarface | hmm, does seem like it has to be a library issue | 09:20 |
| brocashelm | do you get anything with apt-get download apt? | 09:20 |
| brocashelm | looking up your problem, seems this is an issue that has happened a couple of times. there are some solutions provided here: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/193169/apt-get-install-ends-with-segmentation-fault | 09:22 |
| brocashelm | although it may be a hardware issue | 09:22 |
| Guest4792 | brocashelm: thank you. I'll take a look | 09:22 |
| Guest4792 | gnarface: I'll read my "sources.list" too, for check what word ("chimera" or "stable") I have. Thank you. | 09:26 |
| Guest4792 | Thank you both for your help | 09:26 |
| brocashelm | make sure it says chimaera, btw | 09:26 |
| brocashelm | hopefully your issue is resolved then | 09:26 |
| golinux | Guest4792 is gonna have a problem if he tries to use "chimera". It is "chimaera" of course. | 15:04 |
| djph | woo, everything works fine post-upgrade to daedalus. should've done this months ago :) | 15:10 |
| golinux | Congrats! | 15:14 |
| djph | hardest part was spelling it, lol :D | 15:44 |
| golinux | LOL! | 15:44 |
| golinux | What messade? | 15:52 |
| golinux | nessage | 15:52 |
| golinux | Oy . . . it's gonna be that kind of day | 15:52 |
| golinux | I was wondering why you ghosted us | 15:52 |
| djph | golinux: who? me? | 16:35 |
| golinux | djph: No. auanta. | 16:39 |
| djph | oh ... something must be screwey over here then; since I'm not seeing anything except your comment :| *sigh* breaking things is fun | 16:40 |
| golinux | djph: You didn't see this? | 16:53 |
| golinux | *auanta* hi just wanted to make sure you got my message | 16:53 |
| djph | golinux: nope | 16:54 |
| golinux | If it was meant for me persona;;y, it shouldn;t be showing on this channel | 16:55 |
| djph | golinux: no idea then | 16:56 |
| golinux | maybe joerg can explain things when he sees this | 16:56 |
| golinux | I'm off to the kitchen | 16:56 |
| joerg | hm? | 17:02 |
| fsmithred | joerg, how to send someone a private message that shows up in the window/tab for this public channel, but only shows for the intended recipient? | 17:09 |
| joerg | /help notice | 17:09 |
| fsmithred | ok, so it's possible. That was the real question. Thanks. | 17:09 |
| joerg | also useful: /help umode | 17:10 |
| fsmithred | um, that last one was not helpful | 17:10 |
| fsmithred | what is 'mode %n &2' ?? | 17:11 |
| fsmithred | oh | 17:11 |
| joerg | +g is useful for sure, when you really want not get pestered | 17:12 |
| joerg | and a plain /umode at least in my client shows the user modes I've set | 17:13 |
| joerg | alternatively /mode <yourownnick> | 17:14 |
| joerg | the /umode is an alias/shortcut | 17:14 |
| fsmithred | just /umode gives me Bad arguments for user command. | 17:15 |
| joerg | irc has user modes and channel modes aka /cmode or /mode <#channel> | 17:15 |
| joerg | not all clients seem to understand the shortcut | 17:16 |
| golinux | All that makes my head swim . . . | 17:20 |
| golinux | I seek simplicity | 17:20 |
| golinux | But I do appreciate the explanation joerg . . . You are our very own chat "wikipedia"! | 17:21 |
| joerg | https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes | 17:22 |
| joerg | :-D | 17:22 |
| * golinux never rtfm | 17:26 | |
| joerg | it's not a manual, it's a terse cheat sheet that explains stuff better than I could | 17:28 |
| golinux | Chicken scratches to me | 17:30 |
| joerg | actually the real cheatsheet is in the middle of https://libera.chat/guides/basics | 17:30 |
| golinux | My abstract symbol skills have never been that good and now about non-existent. I am very analog. | 17:31 |
| golinux | I seek simplicity in all things, | 17:32 |
| joerg | abstract symbols? | 17:34 |
| golinux | Old dogs find new tricks challenging. | 17:35 |
| joerg | I don't see the abstract symbols anywhere | 17:36 |
| golinux | I am tired of learning new ways to behave for the machine. | 17:36 |
| golinux | I have only been able to grasp the most basic bits of irc communucation. | 17:37 |
| joerg | errr, who recommended you to learn new ways of behavior? I just gave you infos | 17:38 |
| golinux | I don't want/need all that clutter in my head. | 17:38 |
| golinux | And I thank you for that. I now know what *[username]* means. I have no interest in learning how to use it myself. | 17:40 |
| joerg | well, sorry, I can't read your mind, neither could I change your user modes on your behalf. You may ask me what _you_ can do to configure your user client/account/whatever in a way so you like it most, but I can't tell you what is the way you like most | 17:40 |
| golinux | But now I know where to find it if I change my mind. :D | 17:40 |
| * golinux saved notes | 17:40 | |
| golinux | It gives me a headache to even think about trying to figure out what that means | 17:41 |
| joerg | you can block all messages addressed at you by the command /mode golinux +g but I don't know if that's what you really want, there are variants like the "soft" /mode golinux +G but please read about what all the usermode flags do, in https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes, then if you got any questions regarding this, feel free to ask me in any channel you find me or PM me | 17:47 |
| joerg | I know irc is not "userfriendly", it took me years to understand the basics | 17:49 |
| joerg | mainly because there are not many real user manuals / tutorials that explain what a command is useful for and how all this stuff plays together | 17:51 |
| joerg | or rather, I didn't know of any such manual/tutorial back when | 17:54 |
| djph | joerg: I just come across the garbage-tier blogspot (etc.) type stuff | 17:58 |
| joerg | >><fsmithred> what is 'mode %n &2' ??<< where did you see that? | 18:02 |
| joerg | I never heard of such thing | 18:02 |
| joerg | or rather, I seem to recall it's a config option for probably a irc client GUI pushbutton | 18:06 |
| fsmithred | <joerg> also useful: /help umode | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | User Command for: mode %n &2 | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | <fsmithred> um, that last one was not helpful | 18:24 |
| fsmithred | <fsmithred> what is 'mode %n &2' ?? | 18:24 |
| joerg | sorry, you use a client that spits unhelpful error messages | 18:25 |
| fsmithred | hexchat FTR. | 18:25 |
| joerg | :nod: | 18:25 |
| fsmithred | that message comes when I try to get help on umode | 18:26 |
| joerg | https://i.imgur.com/7MgmMyw.jpg | 18:28 |
| joerg | every client does some "translation", the raw data is as gibberish as running as any arbitrary API is. The problem now is: there's no RFC for what and how exactly your client must do to translate between raw and human-readable | 18:31 |
| joerg | and hexchat is notorious to suck in that regard | 18:31 |
| joerg | ooh, and server commands via bounbcer proxy is yet another nightmare to explain and get right | 18:36 |
| joerg | -b | 18:36 |
| joerg | bouncer aka ZNC# | 18:36 |
| joerg | maybe helpful https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Modes | 18:37 |
| joerg | see, this is why I prefer to point users to "manuals" like ^^^ this or that https://libera.chat/guides/usermodes. I have no way to be sure what your client does, and often I'm just not aware there's a potential trouble when I look at my nice Konversation screen and think >>hmm, shouldn't be too hard<< and then neither the user I puzzled with my ignorance nor I realize that I'm looking at another client's screen than the user who sees a massively rude "User | 18:42 |
| joerg | Command for: mode %n &2" where I hoped they see a https://i.imgur.com/7MgmMyw.jpg | 18:42 |
| joerg | now this is explaining that stuff about the client "translation" issues better than I could https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Commands_and_replies | 18:49 |
| joerg | >>Depending on the command, these may either be handled entirely by the client, or (generally for commands the client does not recognize) passed directly to the server, possibly with some modification<< | 18:51 |
| joerg | there's a command /quote which took me years until I understood why it's needed on *some* clients like hexchat maybe | 18:53 |
| sabasedigh | hello | 19:24 |
| sabasedigh | need urgent help | 19:24 |
| joerg | hi :-) | 19:24 |
| sabasedigh | I was installing somthing with apt and it got stuck on libc-bin and the end of install | 19:25 |
| sabasedigh | Setting up libc-bin | 19:25 |
| sabasedigh | right now no application opens | 19:26 |
| sabasedigh | I terminated that apt install and if I try ap install anything I get directed to do | 19:26 |
| sabasedigh | dpkg --configure -a | 19:26 |
| sabasedigh | which stucks at Setting up libc-bin (2.31-13+deb11u3) ... | 19:27 |
| sabasedigh | any help? | 19:27 |
| joerg | sounds similar to a few hours ago http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/libera/_devuan/_devuan.2022-08-19.log.html#t2022-08-19T08:58:16 | 19:28 |
| joerg | the bottom line aiui been >>gnarfacedo you have chimaera in your sources.list or the word "stable"? << | 19:30 |
| sabasedigh | joerg: chimaera | 19:30 |
| gnarface | we never got a confirmation on the other issue though | 19:31 |
| sabasedigh | which issue? | 19:31 |
| gnarface | someone had a update fail on chimaera earlier but they were actually segfaulting | 19:31 |
| sabasedigh | apt upgrade | 19:31 |
| sabasedigh | dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. | 19:31 |
| sabasedigh | it is this over and over | 19:32 |
| sabasedigh | and I can't open any application | 19:32 |
| sabasedigh | right now I am on irssi | 19:32 |
| gnarface | this old solution to corrupted apt internal files was mentioned, but the user never came back to confirm or deny whether it worked: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/193169/apt-get-install-ends-with-segmentation-fault | 19:32 |
| sabasedigh | even htop and top won't open | 19:32 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: maybe because nothing worked after that for him | 19:33 |
| gnarface | yea, that's a possibility | 19:33 |
| gnarface | do you have enough functionality to download the live image and burn it to a usb key? you might end up needing it... | 19:33 |
| joerg | not really surprising when >>it got stuck on libc-bin<< | 19:33 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: right now I have a browser open | 19:34 |
| joerg | when libc binary is broken, probably there's hardly anything except kernel that works? | 19:34 |
| gnarface | well i wouldn't really expect the old one to be so different on stable, i don't know | 19:35 |
| sabasedigh | is there any way to get the libc package and extract it over the broken one? | 19:35 |
| * joerg shuts up | 19:35 | |
| gnarface | that's also something you could do readily from a live image | 19:36 |
| sabasedigh | this system took lots of work to setup | 19:36 |
| gnarface | ... it doesn't really answer the question of what actually went wrong though | 19:36 |
| gnarface | this is definitely not something that should be happening normally | 19:36 |
| djph | ^ | 19:36 |
| gnarface | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_chimaera/desktop-live/ | 19:36 |
| gnarface | grab one of these if you can and dd or cp it to a usb key then run "sync" once to be sure it completed | 19:37 |
| gnarface | just before anything else goes off the rails so you can have a recovery path | 19:37 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: I as installing a package with apt install and the install process at the end of the apt "those ###### process bar got stuck at 31%" I terminated the process and now we are here .... | 19:37 |
| gnarface | hmm, i wonder if something has gone wrong at the repo end... | 19:38 |
| gnarface | stable updates are usually better than this | 19:38 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: I have a usb live. how could I repair libc from that | 19:38 |
| sabasedigh | I really don't want to install new OS | 19:38 |
| gnarface | easy, boot the live usb, mount the drive and do the manual libc replacement you proposed earlier | 19:39 |
| gnarface | i don't know if that's gonna fix the real problem but it's as good an idea as any at this point | 19:39 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: where is the the libc location to be repaired over | 19:39 |
| joerg | >>then run "sync" once<< or "safely remove" if that's available | 19:39 |
| gnarface | sabasedigh: you're not Guest4792 from earlier, are you? | 19:40 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: oh; no... I am as alway sabasedigh | 19:40 |
| sabasedigh | and I came here about 10 minutes ago | 19:41 |
| sabasedigh | where is libc location? | 19:42 |
| gnarface | dpkg -L [package name] | 19:43 |
| gnarface | you said it actually failed on libc-bin which isn't actually libc, it's some tools for dealing with libc | 19:43 |
| gnarface | you're sure this isn't something mundane like you're out of drive space or something like that, right? | 19:44 |
| gnarface | you should check the dmesg output for some errors | 19:44 |
| gnarface | someone else recently had a failure doing an upgrade but it's possible your problems aren't related | 19:46 |
| gnarface | at this point we don't actually have a diagnosis on either issue really | 19:46 |
| joerg | >>out of drive space or something like that<< quite plausible | 19:47 |
| joerg | or IOerror, swap hell, whatever | 19:47 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: dpkg -L shows wide range of directories which I am gussing needs to be replace with amounts new install | 19:47 |
| gnarface | sabasedigh: what does "df -h" say you have for free space? | 19:48 |
| sabasedigh | */with/which | 19:48 |
| gnarface | a new install? hardly... dpkg -L libc-bin|wc -l | 19:48 |
| gnarface | like 58 files | 19:49 |
| gnarface | i'm just concerned it's not gonna actually fix the problem | 19:49 |
| joerg | what the heck _is_ libc-bin? | 19:49 |
| gnarface | the package with ldd in it | 19:49 |
| joerg | oooh | 19:49 |
| sabasedigh | yup | 19:49 |
| sabasedigh | 4GB free at root | 19:49 |
| sabasedigh | '/' | 19:49 |
| joerg | dmesg | 19:50 |
| sabasedigh | joerg: what am I looking in dmesg output? | 19:51 |
| gnarface | a bunch of i/p errors from the drive maybe | 19:52 |
| gnarface | i/o* | 19:53 |
| joerg | hmm good question. Maybe search for the /dev/sdX device name your root filesystem was on. Or search for "error" | 19:53 |
| gnarface | it'd probably be near the end | 19:53 |
| joerg | a pity dmesg has no meaningful timestamps afaik | 19:54 |
| sabasedigh | https://dpaste.org/7SUtL/raw | 19:55 |
| joerg | relevant, that's at least a clue | 19:55 |
| gnarface | uh, please use paste.debian.net if you want me to look at it | 19:58 |
| joerg | I'm out, that's not a topic I could help | 19:58 |
| joerg | gnarface: https://termbin.com/iohr | 19:59 |
| gnarface | why is everyone so disobedient? | 19:59 |
| joerg | lol | 19:59 |
| gnarface | just /msg it to me if it's that big of a deal | 20:00 |
| gnarface | oh, damn. so there's segfaults after all | 20:01 |
| gnarface | it's starting to look like something has gone severely wrong with a chimaera update late last night | 20:01 |
| gnarface | something i apparently missed myself by just a few hours | 20:01 |
| sabasedigh | http://paste.debian.net/1251030/ | 20:02 |
| gnarface | yea, i got it thanks. joerg messaged it to me | 20:02 |
| gnarface | the firmware load failure is about your wifi device, it's not related | 20:02 |
| gnarface | the libc segfaults are bad news | 20:03 |
| sabasedigh | gnarface: it is about 8hrs ago.... I remove the wifi dongle and attached the cat6 cable | 20:03 |
| gnarface | i would consider rolling the packages back and checking bugs.debian.org to see if someone has already reported this | 20:03 |
| gnarface | just as a sanity check can i see your /etc/apt/sources.list file? | 20:04 |
| gnarface | also make sure you don't have anything in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | 20:04 |
| joerg | firmware load failure -> internet connectivity loss -> stalled download? installer hickup? | 20:06 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure that would explain libc segfaults | 20:06 |
| joerg | I have no idea how it's installing a new ldd related stuff | 20:07 |
| joerg | or anything. First full download and store temporary, then unpack, ch4ecksum, then install by overwriting or by rename of a temp filename to target name after write? | 20:08 |
| joerg | smells like pending doom | 20:09 |
| gnarface | it does occur to me that i've seen something like this come up before with people who had failed to include the chimaera-security or chimaera-updates repos in their sources.list, and that link i pasted earlier i think mentioned it could come from having google earth sources in your sources.list.d directory or something like that | 20:15 |
| gnarface | any prior distro/release mixing might also be a culprit, but we told all that to the last person too and now these incidents are starting to look less likely to be self-inflicted | 20:16 |
| gnarface | ^ sabasedigh | 20:16 |
| fsmithred | I'm trying apt update/upgrade in chimaera live iso now. Couple hundred packages are being upgraded. sabasedigh what package were you trying to install. | 20:38 |
| fsmithred | ohh.... dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, abortins | 20:39 |
| fsmithred | oh, nm. I ran out of space in my live session. Need to give it more RAM> | 20:39 |
| gnarface | watch out for snipers, fsmithred | 20:42 |
| gnarface | so far everyone else this has happened to disappeared without a trace | 20:42 |
| fsmithred | I'm doing it in a VM. That should shield me. | 20:42 |
| fsmithred | upgrade completed successfully. I wish I knew what package to test install to see if it breaks. | 20:46 |
| fsmithred | brb | 20:46 |
| fsmithred | sabasedigh, ^^^ | 20:46 |
| joerg | fsmithred: you seen https://termbin.com/iohr ? | 21:10 |
| * joerg wouldn't be surprised to find a bug in firmware or firmware flasher for that WLAN chipset | 21:12 | |
| * joerg now playing: https://youtu.be/s7WDbnHlc1E | 21:26 | |
| joerg | if I were a blackhat, I'd implant my trojan horse rootkit into some firmware blob | 21:28 |
| bb|hcb | About dmesg and timestamps, there is dmesg -T, HTH :) | 21:51 |
| ibanja | I installed flatpak. When I issue a "flatpak --user install" command I am asked for an sudo password. the package is then installed as root. I followed the https://wiki.debian.org/FlatPak instructions. | 21:53 |
| ibanja | Fixed it... not sure what happened... purged flatpak and all associated directories. reinstalled... rebooted... now it works. | 22:36 |
| ibanja | nevermind... It installed with the sudo command again... the sudo password must not have timed out, so it didn't ask for a password... I'm done for the weekend. | 22:45 |
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