| stewmu | If gnome 3.8+ has *some* dependencies or at least some usage of systemd, how does devuan manage to still package gnome (and even in testing and unstable) 3.38/40+? | 13:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Necrodiver | stewmu: from what i understand, they have special packages that take the place of systemd packages, i.e. systemd-tmpfiles, that remove the systemd garbage and replace it with non-systemd packages to make sure the dependencies are covered | 13:12 |
| stewmu | I really hope this keeps going for every gnome release. Because I'm starting to like gnome and it appears even KDE might even start having some systemd dependencies. Becoming harder and harder to avoid using systemd these days. | 13:13 |
| stewmu | Necrodiver, are these special packages part of the gnome packages? Or are they a separate package? | 13:16 |
| fsmithred | I don't see any devuanized gnome packages. It probably works because elogind satisfies the dependencies. | 13:19 |
| fsmithred | elogind libpam-elogind and libelogind0 | 13:19 |
| stewmu | I recall that gnome doesn't require the entire systemd stack, just systemd-logind, which elogind satisfies. Thanks fsmithred. | 13:21 |
| Necrodiver | stewmu: If you dont want systemD dependencies, but want kde, try trinity desktop | 13:24 |
| Necrodiver | its based on kde 3 | 13:24 |
| Necrodiver | im on trinity right now | 13:24 |
| Necrodiver | the problem with gnome is that they are planning on switching to wayland at gtk5, so nows a good time to start looking at other DEs or WMs going forward to avoid that mess | 13:27 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | Necrodiver: Is trinity packaged in devuan? | 13:27 |
| stewmu | X can't live forever unfortunately. It's a product of the 80s and needs a replacement. | 13:28 |
| fsmithred | no, but they have devuan instructions on their website | 13:28 |
| Necrodiver | https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ | 13:28 |
| * Necrodiver feels insulted, was born in 1980 and saying things from the 80s need to be replaced is saying i need to be replaced | 13:29 | |
| fsmithred | looks to me like is still works just fine | 13:29 |
| Necrodiver | fsmithred: x11? | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | (Typed on a vnc connection to the computer across the room so I don't have to get up) | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | yes, x11 | 13:30 |
| djph | X works fine. It certainly needs fixed up; but ... the options for "replacement" aren't that good | 13:30 |
| fsmithred | try that on your wayland | 13:30 |
| Necrodiver | ive never had a single issue with x | 13:30 |
| Necrodiver | but the things i hear about wayland scare me | 13:31 |
| fsmithred | lucky or new to linux? | 13:31 |
| Necrodiver | lol | 13:31 |
| Necrodiver | new enough to have not seen the horrors | 13:31 |
| Necrodiver | lol | 13:31 |
| djph | I remember it still being a feat to get X started up in 2004/5 :) | 13:31 |
| Necrodiver | i saw a video once of someone installing debian from like 97 or something | 13:32 |
| fsmithred | debian installer improved a lot with etch | 13:32 |
| Necrodiver | something i noticed between refracta 10 and 11 was the installer for non-roman-alphabet languages | 13:34 |
| Necrodiver | installing japanese support in 10 was a LOT of work | 13:35 |
| Necrodiver | 11 was easy peazy | 13:35 |
| fsmithred | yeah, some package I added helped wiht that. | 13:36 |
| Necrodiver | ive been trying to convince people to move to refracta over here | 13:36 |
| Necrodiver | and get away from winblows | 13:36 |
| Necrodiver | i have almost gone as far as creating an iso in refractasnapshot so i can install it for them without all the extra necessary downloading, AND include a list of commands to copy and paste into terminal, like a cheat sheet | 13:37 |
| Necrodiver | because japanese people are the most normie yo ucan get when it comes to computers, there are actually young people here nowadays who have never even touched an actual desktop pc | 13:39 |
| fsmithred | fonts-droid-fallback (I think that's the one) | 13:40 |
| Necrodiver | that package alone made it that much easier? | 13:41 |
| Necrodiver | wow | 13:41 |
| fsmithred | I think so. Pretty sure someone told me to add that when I was complaining that Chinese characters were not working in web browser. | 13:41 |
| fsmithred | and yes, make your own mix. That's the whole idea. | 13:42 |
| bgstack15 | I'm struggling to get my usb scanner to work with my user in Devuan Ceres. | 19:27 |
| bgstack15 | I've got the permissions set up for the /dev/bus/usb/*/* thing with mode 0666 for now. | 19:27 |
| bgstack15 | sudo sane-find-scanner shows the scanner. | 19:29 |
| bgstack15 | and regular sane-find-scanner can list it. | 19:30 |
| bgstack15 | scanimage -L does not | 19:30 |
| bgstack15 | Ah, I didn't have hplip installed! I didn't realize that was useful for scanning. | 19:36 |
| fsmithred | is it a printer/scanner combo? | 19:40 |
| u-amarsh04 | finally had an "aha" moment with my broken exim4 config - "mail name" in the dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config script and hence /etc/mailname should have been "localhost" to enable local delivery | 19:40 |
| bgstack15 | fsmithred: yes, it is. DeskJet 3050 psc (print/scan/copy) | 19:43 |
| bgstack15 | I spent so long on that I had almost forgotten what I was scanning, lol | 19:45 |
| fsmithred | that happens to me a lot | 19:46 |
| fsmithred | chase down a problem and forget why | 19:47 |
| golinux | bgstack15: I have a DeskJet 3050 too and it took me and fsmithred a while to get it working when I moved to Chimaera. Works really well now for scanning. Printing can be a little messy though . . . | 19:54 |
| bgstack15 | I've been out of ink forever and I have a separate printer anyway. | 19:55 |
| brocashelm | got an officejet here and just installing hplip did the trick | 19:56 |
| golinux | bgstack15: I remove my cartridge and keep it in a plastic bag. Problem is mostly blotches of ink in the corners especiall when it's not warmed up. I print maybe 5 pages a year . . . | 20:01 |
| fsmithred | HP4L made in 1994 still working here | 20:04 |
| bgstack15 | I have a dedicated scan+print server, but my current desk arrangement means I would have to use a very, very long USB cable and those (or chained ones) don't tend to work very well. | 20:09 |
| bgstack15 | Although getting scanimage to work with a network printer involves adding the print server name to /etc/sane/net.conf iirc | 20:10 |
| buZz | i have a laserjet 1000 but for the love of all that is jaromil, cant get it functional in devuan 11/3 :( | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | lpt or usb buzz? | 20:11 |
| buZz | ethernet | 20:12 |
| fsmithred | you tried both cups and hplip? | 20:12 |
| buZz | havent tried hplip yet, the install process looked troublesome :D | 20:12 |
| buZz | iirc its for 'debian' and confuses itself a lot on devuan | 20:13 |
| fsmithred | should just be apt install | 20:13 |
| buZz | ahhh its in devuan? | 20:13 |
| fsmithred | yeah | 20:13 |
| buZz | mostly very disappointed that a distupgrade caused it to stop working | 20:13 |
| fsmithred | warning: you might want to use --no-install-recommends | 20:14 |
| fsmithred | especaially if you don't want avahi-daemon | 20:14 |
| buZz | hmmm | 20:14 |
| buZz | The following NEW packages will be installed: | 20:14 |
| buZz | hpijs-ppds libhpmud0 printer-driver-hpijs | 20:14 |
| buZz | they got ppds too, why not use those in cups? | 20:15 |
| fsmithred | dunno. I've never used one. | 20:15 |
| buZz | :) | 20:15 |
| buZz | if only 2D printers worked as easy as 3D ones , lol | 20:15 |
| bgstack15 | Is avahi a LP/RH invention? Other than everything it stands for (barfing data onto a network), why do we dislike it again? | 20:15 |
| fsmithred | yes, LP | 20:16 |
| brocashelm | yup | 20:16 |
| * bgstack15 shudders | 20:16 | |
| * bgstack15 apt-purged avahi-daemon | 20:16 | |
| fsmithred | yeah, I want to hide, not advertise | 20:16 |
| brocashelm | refracta isos don't have avahi | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | nope | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | they just have a default password and ssh server turned on | 20:17 |
| fsmithred | I should probably arrange a popup window to remind people of that. | 20:18 |
| fsmithred | or a forced password change like heads has | 20:19 |
| brocashelm | easy to do with something like zenity and placing that command/script in session and autostart | 20:19 |
| fsmithred | yeah, there's already yad code for it in the installer | 20:20 |
| brocashelm | nice | 20:20 |
| fsmithred | ok, added it to the todo list | 20:21 |
| fsmithred | afk biab | 20:23 |
| brocashelm | ttyl | 20:23 |
| Soltis | I have an odd qusetion: why would `ssh $host 'service dovecot restart'` hang indefinitely when `service dovecot restart` returns instantly if I shell in and do it? | 20:40 |
| fsmithred | ssh -e <command> ? | 20:42 |
| rwp | Soltis, Perhaps because of ssh reading stdin?? Try using "ssh -n service dovecot restart" to close stdin to ssh. Reference https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/089 | 20:57 |
| amesser | Soltis, I had a lot of struggle with this too. For me restarting dovecot after ssl certificate renewal always became stuck. in the restart script | 21:12 |
| amesser | doing it manually via terminal worked without issue | 21:12 |
| amesser | I end up using "service dovecot reload" instead of restart. Need to figure out at some time what actually blocks the thing. | 21:15 |
| onefang | If you are using certbot, it has a hook for calling a script after renewel. I use it to restart the things. | 21:15 |
| amesser | yep, thats exactly where it became stuck. The day after the renewal was done, cron told me that certbot was already running... | 21:15 |
| onefang | Though I don't use dovecot. | 21:16 |
| Soltis | amesser: Thanks, that does work. Pretty bizarre that 'restart' fails, though. | 21:28 |
| amesser | glad it worked for you too. | 21:32 |
| Soltis | rwp: -n does nothing; I'm really curious what the actual cause is, even if amesser gave me a workaround. | 21:38 |
| amesser | Maybe the restart command needs some input on terminal. Maybe a redirection helps? ">/dev/null </dev/null 2>&1" | 21:44 |
| Soltis | amesser: 2>/dev/null seems to work. | 22:19 |
| Soltis | fsmithred: Any insight into why redirecting stderr to /dev/null would solve the issue? | 22:23 |
| fsmithred | some garbage output was getting interpreted as not garbage? | 22:26 |
| onefang | There might be an actual error? Try redirecting that to a file so you can read it. | 22:28 |
| onefang | I say as I'm falling asleep. lol | 22:28 |
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