| mighty17[m] | <tmlind> "mighty17: no that's old legacy..." <- Should being the keyword, I'm trying to forward port the sound stuff (omap4_wm8994) | 05:11 |
|---|---|---|
| dreamer | Wizzup: why on earth would I want t-mobile? :P | 07:32 |
| Wizzup | dreamer: don't know, I don't prefer one over the other really | 09:35 |
| d4irc | t-mobile rules.... | 15:35 |
| dsc_ | just some chats, bla bla | 15:36 |
| dsc_ | look guiz I made whatsapp https://plak.infrapuin.nl/selif/1q40k4xn.png | 15:37 |
| dsc_ | :P | 15:37 |
| dsc_ | (pls now lawsuits) | 15:38 |
| dsc_ | no* | 15:38 |
| mighty17[m] | Now* :P | 15:42 |
| dsc_ | noes | 15:42 |
| dreamer | what's app about it? the theming? | 16:34 |
| dsc_ | > what's app | 16:38 |
| dreamer | sorry I don't use facebook. sue me. | 16:39 |
| dsc_ | no, I just like the world play :P | 16:40 |
| dsc_ | word play* | 16:40 |
| dsc_ | but yeah the theme looks like whatsapp | 16:40 |
| Wizzup | :) | 16:41 |
| dsc_ | https://plak.infrapuin.nl/selif/rsbwyhmf.png | 16:46 |
| dsc_ | darker background now | 16:46 |
| dsc_ | i declare this theme done | 16:47 |
| dsc_ | Wizzup: we'll have to look at rtcom/telepathy stuff soon | 16:47 |
| Wizzup | yep | 16:47 |
| bencoh | this all looks very cool and promising :) | 16:48 |
| uvos | allso needs discussion about other things | 16:51 |
| Wizzup | hm? | 16:52 |
| uvos | like notification esp the light, how mces state is to be managed wrt rinnger, display behvior etc. | 16:52 |
| uvos | like i know your going to say telepathy handles everything, but thats a _terrible_ solution | 16:53 |
| uvos | take for instance the light | 16:53 |
| uvos | some app enables the notification pattern | 16:53 |
| uvos | some other app also wants to notify and and toggels it on | 16:53 |
| uvos | mce just ignores that | 16:53 |
| uvos | now who is repsonable for turning off the light? | 16:54 |
| uvos | right | 16:54 |
| Wizzup | I'll look in ida and see what fremantle does | 16:54 |
| uvos | so on sane operating systems the gobal notification que takes care of this | 16:54 |
| uvos | every notification being taged with "wants a pattern" | 16:54 |
| uvos | and the light stays on as long as at least one notification is in the que | 16:55 |
| uvos | Wizzup: ok | 16:56 |
| Wizzup | it'll probably be similar to what modest does too | 16:56 |
| Wizzup | since that cooperates already in fremantle afaik | 16:57 |
| uvos | well... | 16:57 |
| uvos | Wizzup: but looking at how maemo lacks stuch a que, and also looking at how suspiciously modest is the only thing not telephathy and gets its own special pattern, it seams the solution they have | 16:57 |
| uvos | is just telepathy handels everything | 16:57 |
| uvos | and other applications are impossible | 16:57 |
| Wizzup | oh, chat/im pattern being different from email? maybe yeah | 16:57 |
| uvos | is what i suspect | 16:57 |
| uvos | yeh | 16:57 |
| uvos | its just broken i think | 16:57 |
| uvos | architecturally | 16:57 |
| Wizzup | in any case I think we can just postpone this for a bit since we need to get the backend working before we worry about this detail | 16:57 |
| uvos | (the way notifications work in general) | 16:57 |
| bencoh | uvos: I have notifications and custom led status working for pidgin on fremantle | 16:58 |
| uvos | bencoh: ok well wheres the code to hildonized pidign then? | 16:58 |
| uvos | your not just adding another pattern are you? | 16:58 |
| uvos | like modest dose | 16:58 |
| d4irc | think ill make an irssi theme next | 17:05 |
| uvos | not to be a drag here but is theaming really important? | 17:05 |
| d4irc | not really :P | 17:06 |
| Wizzup | as long as he has fun doing it I think it's great | 17:06 |
| asriel | just found a cheap n900 on the internet, going to buy it tomorrow and get maemo leste on it :D | 17:06 |
| uvos | asriel: great :) | 17:06 |
| asriel | those things are somehow expensive now | 17:06 |
| uvos | yeah a d4 is cheaper and mutch better ususally | 17:07 |
| uvos | or a pp even | 17:07 |
| uvos | unless you get a very good deal | 17:07 |
| asriel | pp is nice, i've seen that keyboard :P | 17:07 |
| asriel | still yet to hold it | 17:07 |
| asriel | the d4 is nice, but it's verizon exclusive so can't even find a listing here :\ | 17:08 |
| uvos | you can often buy it on us ebay and have it shiped | 17:08 |
| uvos | at least in germany this comes out cheeper than a local n900 | 17:08 |
| Wizzup | right yeah all the ones I get I either carried with me or shipped | 17:09 |
| Wizzup | s/get/got/ | 17:09 |
| Wizzup | uvos but yes in general there is a lot to figure out tp wise as well | 17:10 |
| Wizzup | notifications is just scratching the surface I think | 17:10 |
| uvos | yeah | 17:10 |
| uvos | but my immidate concern is shareing state with sphone ofc | 17:10 |
| Wizzup | there's sending messages, making sure the ui knows when to show new messages, account management, etc | 17:10 |
| uvos | this mostly touches nottifications | 17:11 |
| Wizzup | right, but conversations sending I don't think will go through the sphone sms layer, but rather the standard tp layer since then it's the same code for all protocols | 17:11 |
| Danct12 | asriel: i can give you my n900 but i'm using it as a email client :P | 17:12 |
| Wizzup | otherwise there needs to be special sphone case and then other protocols | 17:12 |
| Danct12 | also the keyboard membrane is a bit messed up too :) | 17:12 |
| Wizzup | I'm going to make sure I don't miss my bus, bbl | 17:12 |
| Danct12 | also i have the pinephone keyboard | 17:12 |
| Danct12 | does any of the ml devs have the pinephone pro/keyboard offer? | 17:13 |
| uvos | no | 17:13 |
| uvos | i think parazyd was thinking about buying | 17:14 |
| dsc_ | i want a pinephone pro :( | 17:14 |
| asriel | sadly we'll have to wait for a few months for the explorer edition :( | 17:17 |
| Danct12 | who doesn't? i personally like it because it's my pinebook pro inside a phone, and i use it as my on the go laptop so i know how powerful the thing is | 17:18 |
| Danct12 | a weird thing pine64 does but at least it's done | 17:18 |
| Danct12 | asriel, if you're gonna buy it.. watch out for the keyboard and the magnet :P | 17:20 |
| Danct12 | i recommend bringing a fridge magnet with you, as well as a fat32 formatted sd card, that should help to determine if there is a magnet on the back case | 17:22 |
| Danct12 | the keyboard one is unfortunately hard to watch out, but maybe try to touch buttons or something and see if it wobbles a lot | 17:22 |
| asriel | Danct12: i'll let you know when i buy it, thanks for the tips! | 17:26 |
| bencoh | uvos: the pidgin notify plugin send an IM notification | 17:26 |
| bencoh | or at least I had it set that way | 17:26 |
| bencoh | (I don't remember if it was by default) | 17:26 |
| bencoh | uvos: pidgin itself comes from the maemo (extras iirc) repository | 17:26 |
| bencoh | uvos: as for the pidgin-notify, I patched it, lemme check | 17:27 |
| Wizzup | Danct12: we didn't ask I think | 17:35 |
| bencoh | uvos: looks like I used notify_send_dbus_mce_message(MCE_ACTIVATE_VIBRATOR_PATTERN,"PatternChatAndEmail"); | 18:08 |
| bencoh | and notify_send_dbus_mce_message(MCE_ACTIVATE_LED_PATTERN,"PatternCommunicationIM"); | 18:08 |
| bencoh | I wonder where I got that from though | 18:10 |
| uvos | bencoh: right | 18:10 |
| uvos | bencoh: but doing so is broken | 18:11 |
| bencoh | probably, but why? | 18:11 |
| bencoh | I mean, I guess there is a reason why I didn't commit that yet :D | 18:11 |
| Wizzup | so they override is the problem | 18:11 |
| bencoh | s/yet/back then/ | 18:11 |
| uvos | becasue this activates a pattern in mce, until you call DeactivatePattern on the same pattern | 18:11 |
| Wizzup | in general 5 diff apps cannot all have their own pattern state if they share a pattern | 18:11 |
| uvos | but there is nothing telling oyu you own this pattern | 18:11 |
| Wizzup | is uvos' point | 18:11 |
| bencoh | hmm | 18:12 |
| uvos | so if some other app activated the pattern too | 18:12 |
| uvos | and then deactivates it | 18:12 |
| uvos | the pattern wont show while the message is still unread | 18:12 |
| bencoh | ah | 18:12 |
| Wizzup | that said I do not have a good sense od how this works exactly in fremantle | 18:12 |
| bencoh | I see | 18:12 |
| uvos | i gues mce could do what is esseantly refererance counting | 18:13 |
| bencoh | I'm not certain the pattern is supposed to still show once there was any user activity actually | 18:13 |
| uvos | and only deactivate the pattern when its been deactivated as often as it has been activated | 18:13 |
| uvos | but thats not how it works atm or histroricly | 18:13 |
| bencoh | I mean, I think the devs had in mind that user would take his phone, check notifications, and ... basically that's it | 18:13 |
| uvos | bencoh: a app disables the pattern for any number of reason | 18:14 |
| uvos | s | 18:14 |
| uvos | you could have looked at the message on a different device for instane | 18:14 |
| bencoh | so basically once you open the window mosaic (forgot how that thing is called ... launcher?), it goes off | 18:14 |
| bencoh | (I think) | 18:14 |
| uvos | the notfications are hidden as soon as you enable the display anyhow | 18:14 |
| uvos | but thats not the point | 18:14 |
| bencoh | uvos: in theory yeah | 18:14 |
| bencoh | ah, so that happens once you enable display? :) | 18:15 |
| uvos | no | 18:15 |
| uvos | mce just stops showing it then | 18:15 |
| bencoh | yeah | 18:15 |
| uvos | its still activated | 18:15 |
| bencoh | *nods* | 18:15 |
| uvos | the only real way to solve it in all cases is to have a gobal notification que | 18:15 |
| bencoh | I just mean that it being activated or not doesn't really bear any sense hildon-wise | 18:15 |
| bencoh | but now I see what you meant by "it's broken" | 18:16 |
| bencoh | it basically forbids any external (remote) action | 18:16 |
| bencoh | (like a message being read from another device) | 18:16 |
| uvos | i also think its broken that the device cant continue to notfy untill all notifications are cleared | 18:17 |
| bencoh | dunno | 18:17 |
| bencoh | the notifications stay there | 18:17 |
| bencoh | but the light goes off | 18:17 |
| uvos | right i mean the light | 18:17 |
| uvos | not the windows | 18:17 |
| bencoh | I think that part is fine, kinda | 18:17 |
| bencoh | the point is to get the user to "check his phone" | 18:18 |
| Wizzup | it depends on what you expect yeah | 18:18 |
| bencoh | up to him to read everything (or not) | 18:18 |
| uvos | even then its incosistant | 18:18 |
| Wizzup | you do not want blinkie blinkie after turning/unlocking once | 18:18 |
| bencoh | I wouldn't want it at least | 18:18 |
| uvos | even if you do expect that (i dont) becasue there are several notification classes its broken | 18:18 |
| uvos | because you have to check on im message | 18:18 |
| uvos | but also one email | 18:18 |
| uvos | etc | 18:19 |
| bencoh | I mean, maybe I left that notification there on purpose, because I wanna get back to it | 18:19 |
| uvos | for the light to turn off | 18:19 |
| uvos | because some stuff is a different pattern (farily randomly really) | 18:19 |
| bencoh | but I still want to notice that I received *another* notification | 18:19 |
| bencoh | here I have a different light pattern for IM/phone/sms | 18:19 |
| bencoh | (purple / blue / cyan) | 18:19 |
| bencoh | (more pink than purple) | 18:20 |
| bencoh | in that regard it's pretty effective | 18:20 |
| uvos | there is also email | 18:20 |
| bencoh | email == chat I think | 18:20 |
| uvos | and "PatternCommonNotification" | 18:20 |
| bencoh | but I might be wrong | 18:20 |
| uvos | that looks teh same as PatternCommunicationIM | 18:20 |
| bencoh | (maybe that's only for vibrations) | 18:20 |
| bencoh | ah | 18:20 |
| uvos | ot the behavior is very inconsistant | 18:20 |
| uvos | depending on what the app decides to use | 18:20 |
| uvos | no PatternCommunicationIM and PatternCommunicationEmail are seperate | 18:21 |
| bencoh | anyway, hildon offers a way to configure every of those patterns, and applications are supposed to choose a class that matches them the most | 18:21 |
| bencoh | it might be the same for leds, yeah | 18:21 |
| uvos | so worst case you have to clear one of eatch PatternCommunicationIM PatternCommunicationSMS PatternCommunicationEmail PatternCommonNotification | 18:21 |
| uvos | before the light turns off | 18:21 |
| bencoh | err different* I meant | 18:21 |
| uvos | if you have one sms one email and one im message and one something | 18:21 |
| bencoh | uvos: I'm pretty certain we wouldn't want that as a user | 18:22 |
| uvos | you have to clear all of those | 18:22 |
| bencoh | honestly I want my phone to just go back to no-led-state until the next event happens | 18:22 |
| uvos | if you have one telegram message one irc message one whatsapp message and one skype message | 18:22 |
| uvos | you have to clear one one | 18:22 |
| uvos | this is terrible imo | 18:22 |
| * bencoh headscratches | 18:22 | |
| uvos | *only one | 18:22 |
| bencoh | uvos: leds are just a mean of saying to the user "something happened, check it up" | 18:24 |
| uvos | bencoh: sure if you want to use it like that thats fine | 18:24 |
| bencoh | with the exception that we have some order of precedence | 18:25 |
| uvos | what im saying it works like this in the current system _sometimes_ depending on the type of message you got | 18:25 |
| bencoh | ie phone > sms > im | 18:25 |
| uvos | even ignoreing sms and phone there are still 3 seperate patterns to contend with | 18:25 |
| bencoh | so receiving an event with a higher priority will override the pattern | 18:25 |
| uvos | no it wont | 18:26 |
| bencoh | it does | 18:26 |
| bencoh | I mean, I use it as a daily phone | 18:26 |
| uvos | it will _hide_ the lower priorty pattern | 18:26 |
| bencoh | yeah | 18:26 |
| uvos | not remove it | 18:26 |
| bencoh | sorry | 18:26 |
| uvos | so you have to clear every pattern | 18:26 |
| bencoh | it disappears once I open my phone | 18:26 |
| bencoh | so the user doesn't really care | 18:26 |
| bencoh | again, the desactive thing isn't really visible to the user because there is no other application to it | 18:26 |
| bencoh | deactivate* | 18:27 |
| bencoh | (admittedly this is bad for multi-device apps) | 18:27 |
| uvos | either your missundersanding me | 18:27 |
| uvos | or leste is missing a piece | 18:27 |
| uvos | ok lets say you get an sms and an email and an im message. | 18:28 |
| uvos | then the pattern sms will show | 18:28 |
| bencoh | omdeed | 18:28 |
| bencoh | indeed* | 18:28 |
| uvos | you turn on the device | 18:29 |
| uvos | all patterns are hidden | 18:29 |
| * bencoh nods | 18:29 | |
| uvos | then you click the sms notification | 18:29 |
| uvos | sms pattern is deactivated | 18:29 |
| uvos | you lock the device | 18:29 |
| uvos | now the im will show | 18:29 |
| bencoh | I dont think it does | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | I don't think it does on fremantle | 18:29 |
| bencoh | I'm pretty sure it doesn't | 18:29 |
| uvos | ok | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | but it might be the case on leste | 18:29 |
| uvos | then something is missing | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | or something sphone does or does not do :p | 18:29 |
| bencoh | yeah | 18:29 |
| Wizzup | conversations on leste is a _big_ program | 18:29 |
| uvos | sphone isent involved :P | 18:29 |
| uvos | it dosent even do the light yet | 18:30 |
| bencoh | I might be wrong, but I don't think so, because I often leave notifications open | 18:30 |
| Wizzup | ah ok then, where do you see this problem then? | 18:30 |
| Wizzup | bencoh: yeah no, I know this is how it works | 18:30 |
| bencoh | like, not long ago I didn't open the Phone notification, it still showed in that lockscreen under the slider | 18:30 |
| bencoh | but I got no light | 18:30 |
| uvos | yeah with modest + updates | 18:30 |
| uvos | @wizzup | 18:31 |
| Wizzup | ok, so it might be a modest porting problem causing it not to behave like fremantle | 18:31 |
| Wizzup | that said I don't use modest on fremantle (anymore) | 18:31 |
| uvos | or something is supposed to clear all notifications | 18:31 |
| uvos | when something happens | 18:31 |
| uvos | would make more sense | 18:31 |
| uvos | because otherwise modest would have to clear all patterns | 18:31 |
| uvos | that sounds very broken | 18:31 |
| bencoh | either that, or one of the closed apps on fremantle deactivate led patterns altogether | 18:31 |
| bencoh | (closed and/or not ported) | 18:32 |
| uvos | yeah no way modest calling deactivate on all possible patterns is the plan here :P | 18:32 |
| bencoh | nah :) | 18:32 |
| Wizzup | there is rtcom notifications ui that we lack entirely | 18:32 |
| bencoh | it should be one of the UI daemons anyway, if at all (like mce) | 18:32 |
| bencoh | (not necessarily UI, but you got my point) | 18:32 |
| bencoh | (I really wonder what does it on fremantle though, assuming we understand it properly) | 18:35 |
| uvos | dbus-montior -s | 18:35 |
| uvos | :P | 18:35 |
| Wizzup | we can find out using dbus -- yeah uvos beat me ot it | 18:35 |
| Wizzup | unless mce does it internally in some tklock stuff | 18:35 |
| uvos | no | 18:35 |
| uvos | i changed mces internal api | 18:36 |
| uvos | so i was forced to look at everything that touches it | 18:36 |
| uvos | we could have mce do this ofc | 18:37 |
| uvos | but i dont think is a great solution | 18:37 |
| uvos | (clearing the notification on a different device or the remote party deleating the message that caused the notfication is sill broken_ | 18:37 |
| uvos | ) | 18:37 |
| uvos | if we do | 18:37 |
| Wizzup | I agree that some other place for notifications is useful, but I also think (like I said before) I'd rather tackle it when we're ready for it | 18:40 |
| uvos | idk i kinda think implementing something new is easier than implementing the same misake and then implementing something new anyways | 18:43 |
| uvos | but sure... | 18:43 |
| Wizzup | I agree yes, but I'm not at that point yet I mean | 18:49 |
| Wizzup | we might run into more info a month from now | 18:49 |
| uvos | ok | 18:49 |
| uvos | i might end up just doing it anyways for telegram-desktop and sphones benefit | 18:49 |
| Wizzup | also with many different chat programs I'd probably want to silence some altogether | 18:49 |
| uvos | (ie implement a notification deamon/window that implements the xdg apis) | 18:50 |
| Wizzup | who knows, I might get you on the telepathy (or libpurple) train eventually :P | 18:50 |
| bencoh | if anything we could even move to growl (or any other notification system) | 18:50 |
| uvos | heh | 18:50 |
| uvos | im not opossed to to telepathy at all | 18:50 |
| bencoh | but I doubt we'll go that way | 18:50 |
| uvos | just to depending to hard on _anything_ | 18:50 |
| uvos | you could say i have fear of abandoment :P | 18:51 |
| bencoh | I'd love to see everything integrated with telepathy, but I still have doubts regarding how it would handle medias (ie, anything beyond text and audio/video calls) | 18:51 |
| uvos | bencoh: this? Growl is a deprecated[1] global notification system and pop-up notification implementation for the Mac OS X and Windows[2] operating systems. | 18:51 |
| bencoh | uvos: oh, I thought it had been ported to linux, my bad | 18:52 |
| bencoh | I think I had https://github.com/mattn/growl-for-linux in mind | 18:53 |
| uvos | bencoh: ok | 18:53 |
| bencoh | anyway, that's just an example | 18:53 |
| uvos | i think implementing https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/StatusNotifierItem/StatusNotifierItem/ and https://specifications.freedesktop.org/notification-spec/notification-spec-latest.html | 18:53 |
| uvos | makes more sense | 18:53 |
| uvos | since thats what existing sutff uses | 18:53 |
| uvos | one problem is that hildon dose implement https://specifications.freedesktop.org/notification-spec/notification-spec-latest.html sorta kinda | 18:54 |
| uvos | in a way that breaks spec | 18:54 |
| bencoh | https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Desktop_notifications#Notification_servers | 18:54 |
| uvos | witch would make it hard to make old maemo apps and stardart useage of that api work at the same time | 18:54 |
| bencoh | yeah, hildon doesn't do it properly | 18:54 |
| bencoh | well, fremantle's hildon is over 10y old | 18:54 |
| bencoh | and something tells me that spec wasn't exactly complete back then | 18:55 |
| uvos | possible, but nokia has a really poor track record of compatability | 18:56 |
| Wizzup | I think they often worked on the standards | 18:56 |
| uvos | i mean hildon-desktop makes a mockery of ICCCM too | 18:56 |
| Wizzup | tbh | 18:56 |
| bencoh | slightly unrelated, but https://github.com/sboli/twmn seems interesting for us tilingwm-users :) | 18:56 |
| bencoh | yeah, usually nokia was among the ones writing it | 18:56 |
| bencoh | or trying to push it forward | 18:56 |
| bencoh | (unfortunately they stopped in the middle, but that's another story) | 18:57 |
| uvos | either way supporting now non standard maemo stuff and standart xdg suff at the same time is hard/impossible when they both expect the same dbus call to do different things | 18:57 |
| Wizzup | yes, we can work on fixing that of course | 18:58 |
| Wizzup | wrt notify | 18:58 |
| sicelo | bencoh: that twmn really looks nice! wonder how/if it would work on wayland | 21:27 |
| sicelo | dsc_: looks really great - i only miss the timestamp, i.e. i'd rather have time instead of date, if i couldn't have both | 21:29 |
| dsc_ | sicelo: thanks, I accidentally typed `datestr` instead of `hourstr`, as such there is a date there that should be `hh:mm` instead :P | 21:31 |
| dsc_ | ill change it | 21:31 |
| dsc_ | I also need to make it so that it *does* show the date on day changes (just how whatsapp does it) | 21:31 |
| dsc_ | (nobody is telling me what to make in terms of UI, if anyone has an idea/example I'd be happy to re-create it) | 21:34 |
| uvos | i think the ui is fine | 21:36 |
| sicelo | i think you've done a great job with being 'true' to hildon styling that we're used to. | 21:36 |
| uvos | both what you showed origionally and the whatsapp clone | 21:37 |
| dsc_ | cool | 21:37 |
| uvos | btw | 21:40 |
| uvos | how are you handling having multiple chats open at the same time | 21:40 |
| uvos | with sphone i ran into the issue that libhildon uses a global for the stacked windows stack | 21:40 |
| uvos | so an application can have only one stack | 21:40 |
| dsc_ | uvos: right, but I dont think you, or me, have to do anything to facilitate hildon in supporting multiple stacked windows, other than spawning mulitple QMainWindow's of course | 22:00 |
| dsc_ | it just doesnt work right now because Wizzup messed up somewhere (c)(tm) | 22:00 |
| dsc_ | i.e: if your application spawns X windows, and sets the 'stacked window property', it should work, I think... | 22:00 |
| dsc_ | X amount of windows* | 22:00 |
| uvos | dsc_: well i my case i use libhildon1 | 22:01 |
| uvos | not qt | 22:01 |
| uvos | so they also messed up | 22:01 |
| uvos | yeah in theroy there is no reason for this in h-d itself | 22:01 |
| dsc_ | but to answer your question: I'm not spawning multiple windows currently | 22:01 |
| uvos | ok | 22:01 |
| dsc_ | but I do plan to after Wizzup says it is fixed :P | 22:02 |
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