libera/#maemo-leste/ Monday, 2022-02-28

Wizzupfreemangordon: can you remind me what I had to do for libsdl(2) ?10:25
buZzis it me or is phoenix.maemo.org really slow11:23
buZzgrabbing last droid4 build at 300kb/s11:24
freemangordonWizzup: pull latest from debian in our repo so I can make it build on leste11:30
freemangordon(IIRC) :)11:30
freemangordondebian == salsa.$whatever.$it.$was11:31
buZzthis 'low battery poweroff' is kinda annoying when trying to setup a fresh droid4 :P11:58
Wizzupok12:03
buZzguess i'll just leave it on usb for longer12:04
WizzupbuZz: what do you observe?12:05
buZzmaemo boots, charging led is on , i can connect to wifi, start a 'apt update' , and during it just powers off, seemingly12:05
buZzalso, white led is blinking through the charging led now? hmm12:06
buZzhmmmm , maybe it just synced time during connecting to wifi and got confused?12:08
buZzoh, btw, last build oin phoenix. gives me on 'apt update' (after 5th time it seems to stay running now) : 'invalid signature 'maemo leste extra signing key''12:09
buZzon latest image from phoenix*12:10
buZzi'll try upgrade & dist-upgrade, reboot, and retry apt update12:11
buZzah, already a 'apt update' after the upgrade doesnt give the key error12:12
WizzupbuZz: not sure about the power off, that seems weird, does it do a reboot, or just reset?12:16
WizzupbuZz: the signing key is fixed with an update of core pkgs12:16
buZzit seems to do a full poweroff, its kinda weird12:17
buZzmaybe this cable is dubious .. hmm12:17
uvosbuZz: thats expected behavior14:38
buZzright, just saying its a annoying situation :)14:39
uvosbuZz: the d4 only charges with 500mA if you load it (like apt update dose) it will be discarging the battery14:39
uvosbuZz: if its discarging the battery while the voltage is below threshold it will power off14:39
uvosbuZz: this is the only thing it can do to prevent damage14:39
buZzhmhm14:39
buZzwell, there are alternatives :)14:39
uvosno14:39
buZz'while (battery <2%) { echo "preventing further booting while charging to minimum capacity"; }' in rc.local or something14:40
uvosdosent help14:40
uvosand we do this14:40
uvosin charge-mode14:40
Wizzupuvos: the power off you describe, is that what buzz sees?14:40
buZzah, didnt see any msg14:40
Wizzupuvos: it sounded like immediate power off to me14:40
uvosWizzup: its working as intended14:40
Wizzuphmm, is there a way to see this in the logs?14:41
uvosWizzup: mce powers off because the battery is discarging while below a voltage threshold14:41
buZzyeah often its immediate , but as i read it, it might just be dropping so low that it plops away instantly?14:41
Wizzupa buddy of mine had his d4 also just shut down without errors in dmesg14:41
Wizzupand I  htink I saw it too at some point14:41
Wizzupmaybe it's a voltage drop14:41
uvosWizzup: well the led makes it obivous14:41
buZzwhat does the led say?14:41
Wizzupuvos: then I think it is a different behaviour14:41
uvosWizzup: led on = mce is volontarly shuting down14:41
WizzupbuZz: I think the led should be purple14:41
uvoswhite14:41
buZzwhich color on?14:41
Wizzupok, white then14:41
buZzuvos: once i had 'white led on' while completely powered off even14:42
buZzis that this behaviour?14:42
uvosits not off14:42
uvosit turns off the display immidatly14:42
uvosand then powers off14:42
uvoswhile the led is on its not finished14:42
Wizzupok I just thought that buzz said the device powered off immediately14:42
Wizzuplike some reset14:42
buZzright, just not responding to keyboard, slider or USB in/out14:42
uvosright14:42
uvosthis is correct14:42
buZzwith whiteled on14:42
uvosits in the processes of shutdown14:42
Wizzupok14:42
Wizzupthen it is what uvos said14:42
buZzuvos: it took >5 minutes?14:42
uvosbuZz: there a kernel bug14:43
uvosbuZz: that causes a oops on shutdown14:43
buZzeventually i did power+voldown14:43
uvosit can hang14:43
uvosyeah14:43
uvosthis is a different issue14:43
buZzcant we keep display on with backlight off on poweroff-by-mce ?14:43
uvosthis is the uart dirver oopsing14:43
uvosbuZz: we dont want to14:43
uvosthe led is your indication :)14:43
buZzright but its indicating things that arent clear :D14:43
uvos(and serial sticks around ofc)14:43
uvosimo its fine14:44
uvosofc the kernel should not oops :P14:44
Wizzupmaybe the led pattern could pulse or something14:47
uvosno not possible14:47
uvosand not a good idea14:47
uvosthe led pattern has to be on untill the device is hardware off14:47
uvosthis is long after mce dies14:47
uvosso mce cant be pulsing the led14:47
uvosthe current pattern on n900/fremantle is also very dumb14:48
uvosit ramps down in about 1 sec14:48
uvosthus not telling the user anything really (ie the n900 can hang in shutdown forever and the user wont know untill he finds his battery unexpectantly empty)14:49
uvoswe should be changing the n900 led to be like the mapphone one not the other way around14:49
bencohwait, the n900 led driver has a hardware led pattern engine15:24
uvosright, so dose the d4, but its not used sanely on n90015:26
uvosits programed to turn off the led slowly in a fixed time15:26
uvosthis has no relation to the n900 acctually turning off15:26
uvosits just a meaningless/useless animation15:26
freemangordonuvos: not really, on n900 WD actually works, not like the one on d415:36
uvosmope15:36
uvosnope15:36
freemangordonyes, it does15:36
uvosn900 can and absoulty dose hang like this15:36
uvosi has in the past15:36
uvos*it15:36
freemangordonno way15:36
uvoswd can not prevent every hang15:36
freemangordonsure it can15:36
uvosno15:36
freemangordonI don;t know waht happens on d4 though15:36
freemangordonI suspect WD there is not correctly setup or something15:37
uvossame way it can happen on n900 (and has on older kernels)15:37
uvosor maybe its not set up, but that dosent change that it can still hapen with wd15:37
freemangordonif WD is correctly set-up (no way out), there is absolutely no way for device to hang forever15:38
uvosofc there is15:38
uvoscome one15:38
freemangordonno, ther eis no, this is HW engine connected to one of the reset signals15:38
uvosthere millions of ways the wd can still be kicked while the device is stuck in some way15:38
uvosthe d4 isent really stuck either15:38
uvosyou can still use it over serial in this state15:38
freemangordonsee, I am using n900 for 11 years already15:38
uvosits just parts of userspace that get stuck15:38
uvosi dont care if you have been using it for 1million years15:38
uvoswd is not a silver bullet15:38
freemangordonyeah, right15:39
* freemangordon is out15:39
Wizzupwell we disable ws reset on reboot15:43
Wizzups/ws/wd/15:43
uvosno15:43
Wizzupthat's why we don't have NOWAYOUT set15:43
WizzupI think we do, don't we?15:43
Wizzupat least we hand it back to kernel I think15:43
uvospretty sure it works15:43
uvosoh on reboot15:44
uvossorry i read that wrong15:44
uvosyeah its disabled at some point in the reboot process15:44
Wizzupright15:46
freemangordonwhy do we do that?15:46
uvosiirc dsme get shut down15:46
Wizzupbecause our reboot with sysvinit/openrc is too slow15:47
uvosand then it would wd before its power off15:47
freemangordondsme is not touched by openrc15:47
freemangordonsec15:47
Wizzupwe even had this do not kill pids list15:47
Wizzupbut this, what we have now, was the proper solution15:47
Wizzupif kernel didn't panic and keep wd alive during panic we'd be ok15:47
freemangordonhttps://github.com/maemo-leste/dsme/blob/master/debian/dsme.init#L2815:48
uvosiirc from poking around in the d4 state the problem is that agetty15:48
uvosis in D state15:48
uvosbecause of the oops15:48
uvosso it cant be killed15:48
uvosand init just waits for it to die forever15:48
uvosthis is becasue the tty subsystem is in unsable state after the oops15:48
freemangordonTBH I don;t think we shall return the WD control to the kernel15:49
uvosfreemangordon: in this case whatever you wont help15:49
uvosfreemangordon: if you give wd to kernel it wont reboot15:49
uvosfreemangordon: if you keep dsme allive it wont eihter15:49
freemangordonno, wait15:49
uvoswd cant help you here15:49
freemangordonthe point is - dsme is not killed by openrc15:50
freemangordonkernel starts to kill processes and dsme gets killed but init is not15:51
freemangordon15 seconds afted dsme gets killed, WD reboots the device15:51
freemangordonor was it 1 seconds?15:51
freemangordon*1215:52
Wizzupwe're going back to a discussion we resolved before15:52
freemangordondid we?15:52
Wizzupmaybe read logs and issues going back to get up to date on this15:52
Wizzupyes15:52
freemangordonok15:52
freemangordonso, is it possible what you decided back then to be wrong?15:52
uvosthat is a _terrible_ thing to do15:52
uvosbtw15:52
Wizzupit could be wrong, but let's read the older issues / logs first15:53
freemangordonok15:53
uvosthe time the kernel takes to shutdown after killing everything is not determistic15:53
freemangordonsure, but WD timeout is controllable too, iirc15:53
uvosdosent help15:53
uvosjust give wd back to the kernel15:53
uvosthe kernl has to for intance sync disks, that might mean flushing 2gb to a really slow usb stick on pp15:53
freemangordonand hope for the best?15:53
uvosa hard time out is _bad_15:54
uvosreally really bad15:54
Wizzupfreemangordon: imho this is a kernel problem15:54
freemangordonok, I'll try to find the log15:54
freemangordonWizzup: yeah, maybe there is some knob we can play with, maybe - "how long shall we wait for a process to die"?15:54
Wizzupas I understand it getty is unkillable because of oops15:55
Wizzupwhich prevents reboot15:55
Wizzupso maybe we can skip waiting15:55
uvosyou could force the kenrel to just reboot15:55
Wizzupbut if this wasn't oops but a panic the device would I think just reboot15:55
uvosbut really15:55
uvosjust dont panic15:55
Wizzupit's not a panic I think15:55
uvoser oops15:55
uvosyes15:55
freemangordonuvos: we can;t guarantee that15:55
uvosfreemangordon: well you cant guarentee everything15:56
uvosthats just how it is15:56
freemangordonbullshit15:56
uvosfucking around with the wd dosent help it just causes more issues15:56
freemangordonit is reaaly not productive15:56
freemangordonWD is there for a reason, don;'t you think?15:56
Wizzupfwiw I agree with uvos here that we did the right thing with the handoff instead of hard timeou15:56
freemangordonwhich I guess differs from "lets disable WD"15:57
uvosright its there for the kernel to use it15:57
uvosthe kernel dose use it15:57
Wizzupwe don't disable it15:57
uvosif the kernel hangs it will wd reboot15:57
Wizzupit's enabled, kernel just decides it doesn't want to restart15:57
uvosproblem is that in this case the kernel is not really hanged so its kicking the wd15:57
Wizzupor maybe openrc/sysvinit does, because getty is unkillable15:57
freemangordonok, that's why I said " yeah, maybe there is some knob we can play with, maybe - "how long shall we wait for a process to die"?"15:57
Wizzupright, or we fix this oops and move on :)15:57
Wizzupor make it a panic, in which case the right thing happens15:57
freemangordonno, because we can;t prevent kernel from oopsing15:58
freemangordonanyway15:58
uvosyou kan make every oops a panic15:58
uvosbtw15:58
uvosso sure15:58
uvosyou could do taht15:58
uvos(not right now please)15:58
bencohWizzup: I'd suggest enabling kgdb/kgdboc instead of making it a panic16:16
bencohthen you might be able to debug it some16:16
bencohhttps://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.14/dev-tools/kgdb.html if you're interested16:17
Wizzupwell tmlind was already looking into it16:23
bencohkgdb, or the bug?16:26
freemangordonthe bug16:26
siceloI like Wizzup's suggestion of purple led for d4 shutdown notification20:20
siceloOr some other noticeable color besides white. The Droid 4 has a tiny led, and for some reason the white is inconspicuous. The green works very well, so maybe purple could work good.20:26
Wizzupok21:18
Wizzuplet's see if I can get this arm build machine going :)21:18
Wizzupgoing ro restart the server that runs some of our infra momentarily22:09
Wizzuplooks like I need to remove a disk :)22:54
Wizzupstuff should be back23:23
Wizzupordered a disk replacement23:24
Wizzupshould be able to replace it by tomorrow23:24
uvosso abook dosent show any conacts23:25
Wizzup(16TB disk died after 2 years, wtf)23:25
Wizzupuvos: do you have any?23:25
uvosyeah sphone can see them, so can gnome-contacts23:25
WizzupI was going to look at syncing my n900 contacts to my d4, but didn't get to do it yet23:25
Wizzuphm, ok23:25
uvosi sync via dav with my android devices23:26
uvosanyhow23:26
Wizzupfrom leste?23:26
Wizzuphow a line on how you do that for contacts?23:26
Wizzups/how/got/23:26
uvosi used gnome-contacts to set it up iirc23:28
uvosit created a evolution adress book and set it as default23:29
Wizzupbtw, I have 8 more 10" mz tablets here it looks like23:29
Wizzupshould I send any out?23:29
uvosnot to me, mines fine23:29
Wizzupok23:29
uvosyou dont have mz609 right?23:29
uvosie those are mz617?23:30
uvosor 61523:30
WizzupI believe so23:30
uvosok23:30
Wizzupmz61723:30
uvosok - no interest23:30
Wizzupwas this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/15478493769723:30
WizzupI suspect they work23:31
Wizzupwill figure that out soon23:31
WizzupI'm a bit upset one of my 16TB disks died that soon :/23:31
Wizzupwell at least it was a raid and all23:31
uvos:\23:31
Wizzupwaiting for the replacement so I can run 'btrfs dev replace'23:32
Wizzupexperience thought me that just removing the missing dev and then adding one later is much, much slower23:32
Wizzupanwyay23:32
Wizzuphopefully tonight or tomorrow the 16core arm server is up :)23:32
uvosuvos.xyz/maserati/syncevo.txt23:33
uvosso thats the setup23:33
uvosi suspect that abook is using the wrong addressbook23:34
uvosit should let you choose (like sphone) and/or use the default address book23:34
uvosfreemangordon: ^^^23:34
uvos05ec7443-1cec-421a-a6c9-2bbd2892b974 is empty23:34
uvosdosent work even after deating all adress books except the right one23:43
Wizzupdoes it not have a store for its own?23:46
uvosit dosent make one and is should respect eds default no?23:47
uvosie at the very least contacts in eds default should show23:47
Wizzupuh, I don't think that's how it works per fmg23:47
Wizzupright23:47
uvoswell thats wrong23:47
Wizzupnot sure about that, but likely23:47
uvosit should not have its own it should do what its told by eds ie display the default book or the book user selects23:48
uvos*book the user23:48
uvoslike the other frontends23:48
* Wizzup cannot comment on what it should do23:50
Wizzupok, tomorrow I will setup the honeycomb23:50
Wizzupit seems not super hard23:50
uvoshoneycomb?23:50
uvosandroid 3.023:50
uvos?23:50
uvosah the arm server23:51
uvosright23:51
Wizzupyes23:52
Wizzup32GB 16 cores23:52
Wizzupgot all the other components as well23:52
uvoswell 16 fairly weak cores23:53
uvosanyhow cool23:53
uvoshow will we be manageing building for both arm archs?23:54
WizzupI will just make two KVM VMs23:56
WizzupI think that should be fine23:56
Wizzupof course it will take a while because parazyd used to do it and I don't know how :)23:56
Wizzupbut maybe I am take the ata over ethernet image and just read it from qemu for now (ofc not using ata over ethernet)23:56

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