| norayr | buZz, i have written an irc bot in oberon, which remembers last 100 (or n) messages, and can tell when asked privaterly what was going on. it was for the oberon irc room. then it was invited to a couple of channels (i had no courage to bring him to live there myself) . | 12:38 |
|---|---|---|
| norayr | i worked with osm api, but not exactly. there was a web service that would render the tiles and give you the tiles by web request. | 12:40 |
| norayr | whole world is very easy ho get because the tiles had zoom levels | 12:40 |
| norayr | and at zoom level zero you can fit the world in one or several (dont remember) tiles, each a couple of kbs. | 12:41 |
| norayr | i think for my program i was usinc tiles at zoom level 18. | 12:41 |
| norayr | that service is not available now, but i guess it was also possible to selfhost the renderer. | 12:42 |
| norayr | anyway i missed, why are you talking about osm api? the only place maemo (the system, the desktop environment) used the map was in the locale and time settings. | 12:43 |
| buZz | norayr: imho, best OSM experience is from a vector map stored on device | 13:35 |
| buZz | there's a bunch of map/gps applications in leste already, afaik most just download tiles | 13:35 |
| norayr | buZz, and vector maps take much less space. | 13:51 |
| freemangordon | but, how often shall we re-download? | 13:52 |
| freemangordon | also, how much cpu we need to render every time we need a tile? | 13:52 |
| norayr | my understanding is that you decide. | 13:52 |
| freemangordon | who is 'you'? | 13:53 |
| freemangordon | imagine maemo location applet | 13:53 |
| norayr | with tiles it was like you were setting up the timeout for yourself. you, the author of the program, i have no idea what are you doing. but i was deciding how long my cache is valid. | 13:53 |
| norayr | but with vector maps, probably there are snapshots, and it is possible to check | 13:53 |
| norayr | if there is a new snapshot | 13:53 |
| freemangordon | you turn it on, and it asks maps provider (dbus service) for tiles | 13:54 |
| norayr | with tiles, it might be possible to check if http header of the tile changed, reports other size. | 13:54 |
| freemangordon | wait, you said everything is on-device | 13:54 |
| norayr | i? (: | 13:54 |
| uvos | with vector mapps you can also just update changed vectors | 13:54 |
| uvos | osmand dose this | 13:54 |
| freemangordon | well, you agreed | 13:54 |
| uvos | this ofc is the most efficant way possible | 13:55 |
| freemangordon | ok, but in order to render we must have mapnik or sleepi-maps or whatever renederer on-device, no? | 13:55 |
| norayr | vector maps on device take less space, but... let's say if you want to keep whole germany in tiles of all sizes vs germany in vector, vector is much much smaller. | 13:56 |
| norayr | but if you just need to download a couple of tiles for a backyard of your house, then a couple of tiles of fixed size are smaller than vector archive of country. | 13:56 |
| freemangordon | norayr: I understand that vector maps are smaller, the point is - what we do if we want to show a map? | 13:56 |
| uvos | freemangordon: sure yes | 13:56 |
| uvos | so? | 13:56 |
| freemangordon | that seems overkill to me | 13:56 |
| norayr | which zoom level do you want the map to show? | 13:57 |
| freemangordon | this will pull the repo and the kitchen sink I am afraid | 13:57 |
| norayr | you just show it on a world map? or on a level of city? | 13:57 |
| freemangordon | norayr: depends | 13:57 |
| freemangordon | norayr: do you know location home applet? | 13:57 |
| norayr | that's the problem, i don't remember it, probably never used. | 13:57 |
| freemangordon | the level of details shown depends on gps lock accuracy | 13:58 |
| freemangordon | so variable zoom | 13:58 |
| norayr | i only remember settings applett and probably same during first boot when it asked for locale and i had to point it on the map. | 13:58 |
| freemangordon | no, this is different thing | 13:58 |
| norayr | but did it download tiles? | 13:59 |
| freemangordon | it has nothing to do with gps or map, besides world map | 13:59 |
| freemangordon | 'world map image" | 13:59 |
| norayr | or did it ask which country the user wants to download vector info for? | 13:59 |
| freemangordon | it does not wokr like thta | 13:59 |
| norayr | just my understanding is that 'world map' image can be one tile at zoom level zero. | 13:59 |
| norayr | then can be like 6 tiles at the zoom level, don't remember which, let's say 4. | 14:00 |
| freemangordon | application asks provider: "give me a map with area x1,y1,x2,y2 on zoom level z" | 14:00 |
| norayr | and at the zoom level 18 the city tiles will take more space than the vector of the whole country. | 14:00 |
| freemangordon | this has nothing to do with country, city or whatever | 14:00 |
| norayr | okay, cool. yes that should be possible, but then you download tiles, and it requires internet. | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | yes, exactly | 14:01 |
| uvos | this api also has another fatal flaw | 14:01 |
| bencoh | freemangordon: actually iirc the application fetches tiles in an explicit fashion from the provider repository | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | yes | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | and caches them | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | no, it is not the application | 14:01 |
| * bencoh nods | 14:01 | |
| bencoh | uh? | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | it is the provider ;) | 14:01 |
| norayr | freemangordon, so regarding the cache, the application decides when to invalidate it. | 14:01 |
| freemangordon | "application" is home applet | 14:02 |
| freemangordon | and it uses libnavigation | 14:02 |
| bencoh | aah, I see, nevermind then :) | 14:02 |
| norayr | you can just hardcode one week. otherwise maybe it's possible to get the size of the tile via http header, and if it changed, then to redownload. | 14:02 |
| freemangordon | libnavigatin just calls dbus provider | 14:02 |
| norayr | theoretically it can be changed, but the size may remain the same, but not likely with jpegs. | 14:02 |
| freemangordon | and provider is the one that does whatever needed to serve the request | 14:02 |
| freemangordon | uvos: like what? | 14:03 |
| bencoh | yeah, I missed the fact that you were talking about maemo integration (not how the 3rd-party map apps work) | 14:03 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 14:03 |
| norayr | somebody please port mappero to leste. it is too tough work for me. | 14:03 |
| norayr | but i loved it. | 14:03 |
| freemangordon | uvos: could you elaborate on the flow you think this API has? | 14:04 |
| freemangordon | *flaw | 14:04 |
| buZz | freemangordon: its so small the vector, a full vector OSM dump of whole Netherlands is ~1GB | 14:16 |
| bencoh | how much is it for the tile version? | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | I wonder if this is s good choice | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | like, get the vector data and render it on device | 17:00 |
| bencoh | on n900? definitely not | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | this https://github.com/rahra/smrender | 17:00 |
| freemangordon | maybe it is not that resource-intensive | 17:01 |
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