| missMyN900 | updated the pmOS (Plasma) on my PP eMMC to 22.06 recently | 04:22 |
|---|---|---|
| missMyN900 | very mixed experience | 04:22 |
| missMyN900 | UI is significantly smoother | 04:22 |
| missMyN900 | getting close to Hildon/ML | 04:22 |
| missMyN900 | Firefox is working very nicely with the mobile config that pmOS has | 04:23 |
| missMyN900 | Angelfish is still a buggy mess (crashes often) | 04:23 |
| missMyN900 | I browsed the web on it for a couple hours without issues (FF, of course) | 04:23 |
| missMyN900 | volume buttons still work | 04:24 |
| missMyN900 | however, then it suddenly became very buggy | 04:24 |
| missMyN900 | I have experienced two complete freezes in a couple hours | 04:24 |
| missMyN900 | and now I keep getting a CLI login screen just after boot and after briefly interacting with the UI (specifically the control panel) | 04:25 |
| missMyN900 | only option is to force shutdown the device | 04:25 |
| missMyN900 | camera works with Megapixels (which of course is not yet possible on ML) | 04:25 |
| missMyN900 | it takes an awful long time to save the image though (even JPEG) | 04:26 |
| missMyN900 | basically pmOS 22.06 is very unstable. Seems to be graphics related (probably Wayland or maybe KWin) | 04:29 |
| missMyN900 | still it is nice to see the progress that has been made in some areas. I am sure that the stability will improved upon again in the service packs. | 04:30 |
| missMyN900 | oh and by the way (screen-on) battery life did not really seem better than ML | 04:30 |
| missMyN900 | so ML is not really lagging behind there | 04:31 |
| missMyN900 | suspend is apparently supported though as there is a delay option in settings (default is 5 min) | 04:31 |
| missMyN900 | while playing around with pmOS 22.06 I did discover two things that are relevant for Leste | 04:34 |
| missMyN900 | I installed two music players that I was planning to test to see if pmOS would be suitable for use a mobile audio player | 04:35 |
| missMyN900 | vvave and elisa (Elisa is a convergent Qt5 app) | 04:35 |
| missMyN900 | but then I realized since Elisa is a quite well-known desktop KDE app, it must be in the Debian repos too | 04:36 |
| missMyN900 | and since a music player does not strictly need keyboard input, there is therefore no reason it could not be used on ML! | 04:36 |
| missMyN900 | (even on PP/DB) | 04:36 |
| missMyN900 | so it looks like I may have finally found the perfect music player for ML/my PP | 04:37 |
| missMyN900 | I will be inserting my ML microSD back into the PP and test it | 04:38 |
| missMyN900 | I also installed Pure Maps (from SFOS) on pmOS and discovered that it installs something called 'OSM Scout Server' too | 04:40 |
| missMyN900 | it is also mentioned on the pmOS wiki | 04:40 |
| missMyN900 | this is its homepage: https://rinigus.github.io/osmscout-server/en/ | 04:41 |
| missMyN900 | I think you may find it useful norayr | 04:41 |
| missMyN900 | looks like elisa is only in the chimaera repos... | 07:40 |
| missMyN900 | *sigh* | 07:40 |
| missMyN900 | just got the cloudfare "we are checking your browser" screen while trying to visit a website that I frequently visit (on other devices) | 21:24 |
| missMyN900 | get stuck in an endless cycle of captcha... | 21:24 |
| missMyN900 | qtwebbrowser is apparently suspicious. They must think that it is some sort of bot since it uses a Chromium-based engine but is not Chrome | 21:25 |
| missMyN900 | I suspect we will have to mod the user agent to make it appear as Chrome | 21:25 |
| uvos | missMyN900: doubtfull | 23:32 |
| missMyN900 | tried to install elisa from flatpak so I can at least test it on the PP but flatpak does not seem to be working | 23:32 |
| missMyN900 | https://paste.debian.net/1244331/ | 23:32 |
| uvos | missMyN900: Blink based browsers are very common | 23:32 |
| uvos | more likely the problem is that its a really old version | 23:32 |
| uvos | (yes also the web engine is out of date in this devuan) | 23:32 |
| uvos | that goes for firefox too | 23:32 |
| uvos | all browsers on debian 10 are out of support | 23:33 |
| missMyN900 | ML really needs chimaera to be honest | 23:33 |
| missMyN900 | Debian 10 is just too old | 23:33 |
| missMyN900 | it is annoying to find out that so many things that are available on my desktop are not on ML | 23:33 |
| missMyN900 | since flatpak is not working I cannot install netsurf from there to test either | 23:34 |
| missMyN900 | at least I tested it a while ago on pmOS edge on the PP | 23:34 |
| uvos | unfortionatly ml uses several technologys that are ghone in chimaera | 23:34 |
| missMyN900 | really? | 23:34 |
| uvos | that are mearly depricated in debian 10 | 23:34 |
| uvos | yes | 23:34 |
| uvos | its very dependand on gconf for almost everything | 23:35 |
| uvos | for instance | 23:35 |
| uvos | unfortionatly the (bad) way it uses it makes it difficult to use dconf/gesettings instead | 23:35 |
| missMyN900 | uvos: but can't those just be moved to the Leste repos? | 23:37 |
| uvos | its not that simple | 23:37 |
| missMyN900 | because Leste already uses its own kernel and Mesa, right? | 23:37 |
| uvos | so gconf also requires integration with debhelper | 23:38 |
| uvos | you cant really use a different debhelper | 23:38 |
| uvos | there are other issues too | 23:39 |
| missMyN900 | sounds like a mess | 23:39 |
| missMyN900 | but I thought the transition was planned for later this year? | 23:40 |
| missMyN900 | is that even possible then? | 23:40 |
| uvos | its not impossible | 23:41 |
| missMyN900 | I guess Debian 5 -> 10 is already a huge upgrade... | 23:41 |
| missMyN900 | I remember Fremantle already being outdated in 2012-13 when I was using it | 23:41 |
| uvos | fremantle was released outdated | 23:42 |
| uvos | really | 23:42 |
| uvos | anyhow its not impossible to move leste to 11 | 23:42 |
| uvos | its just quite a bit of work left to do | 23:42 |
| missMyN900 | so is all the gconf stuff going to be replaced? | 23:42 |
| missMyN900 | or will it be ported to 11+? | 23:43 |
| uvos | well in my "house" (ie the packages i mantain) | 23:43 |
| uvos | i replaced gconf | 23:43 |
| missMyN900 | at least ML is a lot more stable than pmOS is currently | 23:44 |
| missMyN900 | it is probably because it uses X11 and matchbox | 23:44 |
| uvos | the main problem with this is how fremantle/leste breaks dbus/gconf user / system seperation | 23:44 |
| missMyN900 | I have never used Wayland on the desktop but from what I have heard the experience is still not great | 23:45 |
| uvos | there are deep assumptions that there is only one user | 23:45 |
| uvos | and that this one user has one session | 23:45 |
| missMyN900 | I don't know how that is possible when it seemed work fine on my Jolla in 2014 | 23:45 |
| uvos | and this session is shared with root | 23:45 |
| missMyN900 | seems like not much progress has been made since then almost... | 23:45 |
| uvos | total mess | 23:45 |
| missMyN900 | shared with root? | 23:45 |
| missMyN900 | so the original Nokia software engineering was actually not that great? | 23:46 |
| uvos | yes so root and user share a dbus session bus and gconf via terrible hacks in af-serices | 23:46 |
| missMyN900 | or were they just working with what was available at the time | 23:46 |
| uvos | missMyN900: no it was really really not | 23:46 |
| uvos | (imo) | 23:46 |
| uvos | they where on a tight dedline | 23:46 |
| uvos | and did whatever to make it work | 23:46 |
| missMyN900 | it is really really unfortunate how everything turned out | 23:47 |
| uvos | incl breaking all linux desktop standards | 23:47 |
| uvos | and making the whole thing hardcoded to fit the n900 | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | if they had spent the resources on fixing Fremantle instead of creating Harmattan and MeeGo | 23:47 |
| uvos | and the n900 only | 23:47 |
| uvos | this is something we allready mostly cleaned up | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | only to abandon all that | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | some people don't like dbus in general but I am not really knowledgeable enough at all to comment on that | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | it seems to me that it does fulfill some useful purpose at least | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | same can be said about pulseaudio to some degree I suppose | 23:49 |
| uvos | dbus is kinda the worst possible ipc mechanisum | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | with systemd, well... | 23:49 |
| uvos | except for all the others | 23:49 |
| uvos | are worse :P | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | are Windows and macOS ones worse? | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | I don't think the *BSDs have anything at all | 23:50 |
| uvos | well dbus | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | except dbus itself but it is optional | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | yes | 23:50 |
| uvos | its optional on linux too | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | but I think many people view it like running pulseaudio on *BSD | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | that is to say, not very positively | 23:50 |
| uvos | i cant comment on windows of macos | 23:51 |
| uvos | but dbus is the best ipc mechanisum we have | 23:51 |
| uvos | its also not that great | 23:51 |
| uvos | but really its not that terrible either | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | I remember there was also something called kdbus (kernel dbus) and BUS1 | 23:51 |
| uvos | this is also dbus | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | I don't know if that fullfills the same purpose or is an extension of the idea | 23:52 |
| uvos | its dbus, now with less context switches | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | so it was just moved into the kernel for higher performance? | 23:52 |
| uvos | well it dident happen | 23:53 |
| uvos | but yes thats the idea | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | oh right | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | yes, I recall BUS1 failing | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | anyway, I am still planning to mod qtwebbrowser to add some features | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | I just haven't gotten around to it | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | have been busy with other stuff | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | computer-related and not computer-related ;) | 23:54 |
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