| buZz | 21:37:15 < rafael2k> Go Maemo! | 02:11 |
|---|---|---|
| buZz | w0000 | 02:11 |
| buZz | :D | 02:11 |
| buZz | lol | 02:11 |
| rafael2k | https://github.com/rafael2k/pine64-kernel/blob/maemo/beowulf-devel/debian/patches/maemo/0245-sun6i_v4l2.patch | 10:42 |
| rafael2k | lets see if I can get it right now | 10:42 |
| buZz | rafael2k: sun6i = pinephone? | 12:07 |
| buZz | i guess so :P | 12:07 |
| buZz | rafael2k: do you have a d4 yet too? :P | 12:07 |
| rafael2k | yes, pinephone | 13:56 |
| rafael2k | buZz: not yet | 13:56 |
| rafael2k | :P | 13:56 |
| buZz | rafael2k: asked Wizzup for one yet? :P | 14:00 |
| rafael2k | want to ask a PPP to him | 14:01 |
| rafael2k | :P | 14:01 |
| buZz | both | 14:01 |
| rafael2k | I read it has better kernel compilation times... | 14:01 |
| rafael2k | eheheheheheh | 14:01 |
| buZz | lol i think d4 is more likely | 14:01 |
| buZz | its so cheap | 14:01 |
| buZz | and mad well supported now, near mint | 14:02 |
| rafael2k | D4 seems a very cool phone indeed | 15:01 |
| norayr | rafael2k: would you write a wiki page about full disk encryption? | 19:38 |
| norayr | hm, msid-repos build failed but apparently i got the update on device. | 19:40 |
| Wizzup | norayr: that happens if it fails only for some arches | 20:15 |
| norayr | oh | 20:16 |
| norayr | will see | 20:16 |
| norayr | build for all three architectures is finished with success. | 20:18 |
| Wizzup | is the package written in C? | 20:23 |
| Wizzup | it looks like one already had the src pkg with tag registered | 20:24 |
| Wizzup | did you increase the version? | 20:24 |
| rafael2k | norayr: I coulđ... but is mostly just set u-boot for initrd... the rest Debian/Devuan tools take care | 20:31 |
| rafael2k | I can do it, after I get proper support for camera in PP | 20:37 |
| unege[m] | Hey guys, starting from maemo 5 1.2 i need some help installing ML and running from sd, if at all possible. The “getting started” on the wiki is a bit too brief for my liking. Do i need some additional firmware? CSSU 1.3? Can I somewhat follow the pmos dual boot wiki? | 21:31 |
| unege[m] | Nokia n900 ofc | 21:31 |
| unege[m] | Did dd onto SD, just can’t choose to boot from sd | 21:33 |
| unege[m] | https://leste.maemo.org/Getting_Started | 21:38 |
| unege[m] | https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 | 21:40 |
| dsc_ | win 19 | 21:41 |
| * dsc_ waves | 21:41 | |
| unege[m] | ? | 21:44 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: what step are you stuck at? | 22:24 |
| sicelo | I haven't run leste on n900 in a rather long time now, but maybe i can possibly help | 22:25 |
| unege[m] | So I got an N900 with PR1.2, I added some of the mirrors that are still active to the repos and installed “backupmenu” | 22:29 |
| unege[m] | Did a full backup, so in any case I could return to this state, assuming it works like that. | 22:30 |
| unege[m] | Now I dd’ed the latest image of ML to an SD card as the wiki states, and I presumed it would be possible to select the sd card as a boot option during startup but this appears not to be true | 22:32 |
| unege[m] | What do I do? | 22:32 |
| uvos | unege[m]: whay are you trying to achive? | 22:34 |
| uvos | *what | 22:34 |
| uvos | oh install | 22:35 |
| uvos | the getting started page is the wrong page | 22:35 |
| uvos | since of there isent one install process | 22:35 |
| uvos | its different for every device | 22:35 |
| uvos | look at the leste wiki page for the n900 | 22:35 |
| unege[m] | At least it says that u-boot (as stated on the pmos wiki) in the app-center requires some kernel modules not present, do i need to upgrade to PR1.3 first? | 22:36 |
| unege[m] | Yes install, preferably run from sd though, having M5 next to it. | 22:36 |
| uvos | no idea about installing uboot from meamo5 | 22:36 |
| unege[m] | Is that feasible? | 22:36 |
| uvos | i just flashed it via 0xfff | 22:37 |
| uvos | unege[m]: i gues if the repos still work | 22:37 |
| uvos | the difficulty doing it externally is apending the kernel | 22:37 |
| uvos | if your not on cssu but just on regular last maemo 5 version | 22:38 |
| uvos | you can use this one with it allready appended: | 22:38 |
| uvos | http://uvos.xyz/maserati/u-boot-2013.04-2-with-freemantle-kern.bin | 22:39 |
| uvos | as described on the wiki you can also just flash uboot with no kernel appended | 22:39 |
| uvos | thats easiest | 22:39 |
| uvos | but you loose the ablility to boot maemo 5 | 22:39 |
| unege[m] | Could you break it down in a bit smaller pieces? If possible i want a dual boot, maemo 5 and ML. Does it indeed help to be on cssu as you state? | 22:41 |
| uvos | if you want to dual boot you need uboot with appended ainchent m5 kernel | 22:42 |
| uvos | you can do this from within maemo 5 cssu if the package repos are still around or you can flash it via pc | 22:43 |
| uvos | i hear installing cssu is quite hard now | 22:43 |
| uvos | because of broken links etc | 22:43 |
| uvos | but no idea on that front | 22:43 |
| uvos | if your on stock maemo 5 | 22:43 |
| uvos | you can just flash the above uboot | 22:44 |
| missMyN900 | oh I see unege is online again | 22:44 |
| missMyN900 | I was just reading yesterday's log | 22:44 |
| uvos | instructions are here https://leste.maemo.org/Nokia_N900 | 22:44 |
| unege[m] | missMyN900: Haha yes :)) | 22:44 |
| uvos | btw | 22:44 |
| missMyN900 | norayr: actually, the original Pinebook (no longer sold) also has an A64 like the Pinephone. It is the Pinebook Pro that has the RK3399 like the PPP | 22:44 |
| uvos | do the Bootloader (U-Boot) setup Quick | 22:45 |
| missMyN900 | basically all Pro devices have RK3399 (including RockPro SBC) | 22:45 |
| uvos | with the above file | 22:45 |
| missMyN900 | non-Pro have A64 (or for SBCs can also have RK3328 or H6) | 22:45 |
| missMyN900 | unege[m]: I have a Pinephone (3 GB/32 GB edition) and have run Maemo Leste on it | 22:45 |
| missMyN900 | in addition to pmOS | 22:45 |
| missMyN900 | I cannot recommend it all for daily use | 22:46 |
| missMyN900 | only as a dev device | 22:46 |
| uvos | dev device with no keyboard | 22:46 |
| uvos | eh | 22:46 |
| missMyN900 | it is definitely good that there is an affordable, easily available globally and good dev platform available to move mobile (free) Linux forward | 22:46 |
| missMyN900 | well, it can have a keyboard, uvos | 22:46 |
| missMyN900 | one that likes to fry itself, but I disgress... | 22:46 |
| missMyN900 | but I cannot honestly call this is a usable daily driver phone | 22:47 |
| missMyN900 | in fact, I am selling mine | 22:47 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: sorry we're on and off. you should be able to install u-boot on PR1.2. but installing PR1.3. is just as easy too ... there's a flashable image | 22:47 |
| missMyN900 | unege[m]: however, you are lucky to be in Europe | 22:47 |
| missMyN900 | which means that either 2G or 3G will likely live on in your area | 22:47 |
| missMyN900 | so mapphones (such as Droid 4 or Droid Bionic) can be a good option as a daily driver for you | 22:48 |
| missMyN900 | and they have good battery life | 22:48 |
| missMyN900 | unlike the Pinephone | 22:48 |
| missMyN900 | me, living in the US, I am moving back to an Android without Google stuff | 22:48 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: the OP already made a decision to buy a specific phone | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | oh nvm | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | I hadn't finished reading the logs yet | 22:49 |
| uvos | also idk about 2g only being enough for a daily driver really, depends on what you expect | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | got a bit too excited when I say OP was online again | 22:49 |
| uvos | (not much browsing the web i gues) | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | I guess | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | but it is still a lot better than not being able to receive calls at all | 22:49 |
| missMyN900 | like in the US | 22:50 |
| uvos | 3g is gohne or with a sunset date in all eu countires | 22:50 |
| missMyN900 | 2G is already gone and 3G is getting shut down in the US | 22:50 |
| missMyN900 | at least for T-Mobile | 22:50 |
| missMyN900 | but every network here is moving in that direction for sure | 22:50 |
| missMyN900 | I am not up to date on the current state exactly | 22:50 |
| missMyN900 | but it is clear that you should not buy a non(Vo)-LTE phone currently | 22:50 |
| unege[m] | <uvos> "you can just flash the above..." <- Allright, thanks, just to be sure, that still allows for dualboot? I was currently walking the cssu path, think if I end up at a showstopper Ill attempt the proposal, thanks for being so helpful | 22:51 |
| missMyN900 | I guess unege decided to get an N900? | 22:51 |
| unege[m] | missMyN900: Haha yes, easy to obtain, would be interested int the d4 though | 22:52 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: you don't even need cssu to install u-boot on maemo fremantle. of course doing so is highly recommended for other reasons | 22:52 |
| missMyN900 | unege[m]: Droid Bionics are also readily available in the US, even new, on eBay | 22:52 |
| missMyN900 | you can import them | 22:53 |
| missMyN900 | norayr: I have to disagree with you that mostly everything works on the PP unfortunately | 22:55 |
| missMyN900 | latest pmOS 22.06 is very unstable on my PP | 22:55 |
| missMyN900 | something is going wrong in the graphics stack | 22:55 |
| missMyN900 | I don't know if it is Plasma or Wayland | 22:55 |
| unege[m] | missMyN900: Concerning your username, how big of an effort would it be to upgrade the n900? LTE module, usbC, possibly a bit faster soc? I read some stuff on a neo900, but that appears to have ended somewhere… | 22:55 |
| missMyN900 | well, I mean | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | I think neo900 was quite far along | 22:56 |
| uvos | unege[m]: theres no point to that really | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | so if that has died | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | then there is not much hope really | 22:56 |
| unege[m] | So sad | 22:56 |
| uvos | the droid 4 is vastly better speced than the neo900 would have been | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | yep | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | yep | 22:56 |
| uvos | and that was a pip dream anyhow | 22:56 |
| uvos | *pipe | 22:56 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/u/u-boot/u-boot-tools_2013.04-2_armel.deb ... install this. if you enter that link on maemo browser, it should offer you an install | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | neo900 was still Cortex A8 | 22:56 |
| missMyN900 | just a version of the OMAP that was still sold | 22:57 |
| sicelo | then http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/u/u-boot/u-boot-flasher_2013.04-2_armel.deb | 22:57 |
| missMyN900 | and a nice frequency boost IIRC | 22:57 |
| sicelo | this might require other packages, but will handle that as needed | 22:57 |
| missMyN900 | also, they had a similar modem setup to the PP IIRC | 22:57 |
| missMyN900 | before the PP even existed | 22:57 |
| uvos | or the d4 | 22:57 |
| missMyN900 | I don't know if PP was inspired by it | 22:57 |
| uvos | really the d4 has the same kind of modem setup | 22:57 |
| missMyN900 | does it have a kill switch? | 22:57 |
| uvos | in effect yes | 22:58 |
| uvos | the omap controlles a gpio that kills power | 22:58 |
| missMyN900 | hmmm | 22:58 |
| missMyN900 | I wonder if all early LTE phones have that | 22:58 |
| missMyN900 | such as Galaxy Nexus | 22:58 |
| missMyN900 | because they all had a separate LTE modem | 22:58 |
| uvos | probubly yes | 22:58 |
| uvos | or at least most | 22:58 |
| missMyN900 | I think Samsung Exynos phones also had a separate modem for a long time | 22:58 |
| uvos | but some modems might be able to do dma | 22:59 |
| missMyN900 | Qualcomm really is the worst | 22:59 |
| uvos | or controll the pmic / other hw devices | 22:59 |
| uvos | the d4 kinda is unique in that the modems cant do anything really | 22:59 |
| bencoh | samsung's design is some kind of hybrid (I work with samsung SoCs at $job) | 22:59 |
| missMyN900 | that is why I will never like SDM845 devices, no matter how well mainlined they will be | 22:59 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: you might need these repositories, http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ . just clicking the links should work straight from the maemo browser too | 22:59 |
| bencoh | the main SoC has a communication processor alongside the main application processor, but the radio part lives in a separate chip | 23:00 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: you will, when there's no longer any omap4 with decent performance :-p | 23:00 |
| sicelo | s/omap4/omap/ | 23:00 |
| missMyN900 | sicelo: there are still alternatives that I prefer but I won't get into that here | 23:01 |
| sicelo | ah, yes. i was referring to something running mainline kernel. i think the alternatives you mention are ... something else | 23:01 |
| bencoh | provided you don't add a radio chip, and keep the communication core(s) off, you should be "okay" (regarding modem/radio issues) | 23:01 |
| bencoh | (meaning you could use an external usb modem with your samsung SoC) | 23:01 |
| missMyN900 | bencoh: so it is basically as if the Cortex A7 of the Quectel EG25 is integrated into the A64 but the Hexagon DSP is still isolated? | 23:02 |
| bencoh | missMyN900: pretty much, yeah | 23:02 |
| missMyN900 | I don't know if that is really all that great | 23:02 |
| missMyN900 | because I think the A7 is the "dangerous" part | 23:02 |
| bencoh | it's not that great, but it means you could design a phone with a separate modem | 23:02 |
| bencoh | provided the A7 is off and has no way to talk to the outside world | 23:02 |
| missMyN900 | I guess if you can run open "firmware" on the "A7" Biktorg's then it is okay ;) | 23:02 |
| missMyN900 | *like | 23:03 |
| bencoh | obviously samsung wouldn't allow that, they won't give you any kind of documentation or sdk for that :) | 23:03 |
| missMyN900 | yes, because regulations etc | 23:03 |
| bencoh | you could poke with jtag if you really wanted, but that's it | 23:03 |
| missMyN900 | same for Qualcomm of course (as Quectel EG25 is still Qualcomm) | 23:03 |
| bencoh | so you just turn it off from the main core, and bring an external modem | 23:03 |
| bencoh | qualcomm is a bit more of an issue, since the modem part has more control over the way the chip boots | 23:04 |
| bencoh | and the radio is builtin, so you can't really take it out | 23:04 |
| missMyN900 | sicelo: you are correct in intuiting that my alternatives are not mainline devices ;) But when the situation gets that desperate, well, you have to have priorities IMHO | 23:04 |
| sicelo | yeah | 23:04 |
| sicelo | mainline is my priority ;-) | 23:04 |
| missMyN900 | as I have said before I am not a hard core open source or Linux person | 23:04 |
| bencoh | if you *really* care about those modem issues, I think the only options right now are the pipephone, librem (errr), and droid4/n900 | 23:05 |
| bencoh | (available for now at least) | 23:05 |
| missMyN900 | bencoh: depends on if you trust all modems equally ;) | 23:05 |
| sicelo | unege[m]: let us know if that info helps, and please feel free to adjust wiki as needed. it will help the next person with an N900 in a drawer | 23:06 |
| uvos | missMyN900: the pps modem with foss fw is def best | 23:06 |
| bencoh | missMyN900: that's the point, you can't trust a modem unless you now what runs on it | 23:07 |
| bencoh | (ie, unless you have the full code) | 23:07 |
| uvos | missMyN900: unfortionatly the motorola modem in the d4 dosent work, since its significant parts of its fw is foss | 23:07 |
| missMyN900 | bencoh: I think this gets back to threat modeling as r3boot_ mentioned yesterday | 23:07 |
| bencoh | yeah | 23:07 |
| uvos | missMyN900: the qualcomm modem is not as open | 23:08 |
| missMyN900 | but I thought Wizzup was using it? | 23:08 |
| uvos | sure | 23:08 |
| uvos | but its firmware is very closed up | 23:08 |
| missMyN900 | so how can it not work? | 23:08 |
| uvos | Wizzup uses the qualcomm modem | 23:08 |
| bencoh | main threat on current phones is that some vendors actually leverage their design to provide ISP and/or govs with SDKs to have access to user data | 23:08 |
| uvos | not the motorola one | 23:08 |
| missMyN900 | D4 has two modems? | 23:09 |
| bencoh | and take over part of the system | 23:09 |
| uvos | yes | 23:09 |
| missMyN900 | 2G/3G and LTE? | 23:09 |
| missMyN900 | hmmm | 23:09 |
| uvos | one for 2g and 3g and one for lte | 23:09 |
| bencoh | (it's not just theory, those are fact, qualcomm did that and sold it) | 23:09 |
| missMyN900 | I thought it only had Motorola | 23:09 |
| uvos | no | 23:09 |
| bencoh | droid4 has two modems | 23:09 |
| uvos | the motorola modem is interesting in that it runs android and gives you root access more or less out of the box | 23:09 |
| bencoh | which is pretty funny when you think of it, and compare it to modern design | 23:09 |
| uvos | you can just log into it via telnet and get a root shell | 23:10 |
| missMyN900 | bencoh: I think you can certainly understand my point then about not trusting all modems equally ;) | 23:10 |
| bencoh | uvos: wow, so they squeezed a complete android system there? fun | 23:10 |
| uvos | yes | 23:10 |
| missMyN900 | bencoh: actually Quectel also runs Android | 23:10 |
| uvos | android 2.1 with no gui but otherwise compleate | 23:10 |
| missMyN900 | it was first described as running Linux | 23:11 |
| missMyN900 | but later I discovered something that implied it was actually running Android | 23:11 |
| unege[m] | sicelo: Yeah thanks, i am trying to record the steps, must say i have forgotten half of it already. So excited anyhow still. | 23:11 |
| uvos | it runs a kernel from the same tree as the droid 1 funny enougth | 23:11 |
| missMyN900 | makes sense since they are using fastboot to flash the alternative open "firmware" | 23:11 |
| uvos | it also runs the droid 1's mbm | 23:11 |
| uvos | (bootloader) | 23:11 |
| uvos | its kinda a droid 1 shoved into the droid 4 xD | 23:11 |
| missMyN900 | so Droid 4 and PP are actually quite similar wrt that aspect | 23:12 |
| missMyN900 | uvos: yes, it is also interesting that the Quectel Cortex A7 is more powerful than the CPU of my first smartphone | 23:12 |
| missMyN900 | (600 MHz ARMv6 MSM7227) | 23:13 |
| missMyN900 | uvos: I am installing Mobian on my PP eMMC before selling it | 23:16 |
| missMyN900 | apparently they are using something called tow-boot now | 23:16 |
| missMyN900 | you need to install that first to the eMMC | 23:16 |
| missMyN900 | it is a uboot fork | 23:16 |
| missMyN900 | if you don't it won't boot the installer from SD card as I discovered :( | 23:16 |
| missMyN900 | can ML work with this towboot thing? | 23:17 |
| uvos | missMyN900: yes if it can boot linux you can make it work with leste | 23:18 |
| uvos | missMyN900: its just the pp is not a huge focus | 23:18 |
| uvos | look into it if you can | 23:18 |
| unege[m] | missMyN900: When would you be willing to unsell it? | 23:20 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: towboot just handles boot, so yes, you can run any OS afterwards. | 23:21 |
| missMyN900 | sicelo: well, yes, I don't doubt that it is possible for ML to work with it but it sounds like it is not currently compatible | 23:23 |
| missMyN900 | so basically if I wanted to actually use my PP with current Mobian installed to eMMC (instead of pmOS) and ML running from SD card like I have been, that would not be possible | 23:23 |
| missMyN900 | seems like a mess to me | 23:23 |
| missMyN900 | more fragmentation is not a good thing | 23:24 |
| sicelo | there's no fragmentation here :-) | 23:24 |
| missMyN900 | it is not coming from ML, no | 23:24 |
| missMyN900 | I am definitely not blaming ML | 23:24 |
| sicelo | they're unifying the PP efforts, to the point of using same kernel everywhere | 23:24 |
| missMyN900 | but Mobian is essentially forcing you to ditch uboot | 23:25 |
| sicelo | just, as uvos mentioned, ML has chosen to prioritize D4 for now | 23:25 |
| missMyN900 | and use their special thing | 23:25 |
| missMyN900 | which does not work with other distros until they add support | 23:25 |
| missMyN900 | that is what I am currently understanding of this situation | 23:25 |
| sicelo | towboot is NOT a mobian special thing. it's a universal thing instead | 23:26 |
| sicelo | if you were not selling your pp, maybe you could help get ML working with it :-) | 23:26 |
| missMyN900 | well, I think that depends on how you define "special" | 23:26 |
| missMyN900 | it is not proprietary, no | 23:26 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: Mobian did not write towboot | 23:26 |
| missMyN900 | I thought that was probably the case but they are still adopting something that is incompatible with what all the other distros are using | 23:27 |
| sicelo | which other distros? | 23:28 |
| missMyN900 | ML, pmOS probably | 23:28 |
| caleb[m] | neato fact Qualcomm are back to running Linux on the modem with the x55 and x65 5G modems (in the OnePlus 9 and other phones of that generation), some folks already have mainline booting on the modem so would be neat to have mainline + FOSS userspace on the modem side AND the host side :D | 23:28 |
| missMyN900 | don't know about manjaro | 23:28 |
| missMyN900 | and nemo and all the others | 23:28 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: pmOS has towboot working | 23:28 |
| missMyN900 | that is good news | 23:29 |
| missMyN900 | caleb[m]: I assume those 5G modems are also LTE compatible? | 23:29 |
| caleb[m] | yeah I'm pretty sure | 23:30 |
| sicelo | i dare pmOS would be even happier if all supported phones could run towboot | 23:30 |
| sicelo | s/dare/dare say/ | 23:30 |
| missMyN900 | sicelo: how is it better than the current situation with uboot and pmbootstrap? | 23:31 |
| caleb[m] | sicelo: that would be pretty nice, in the long term we'll likely end up chainloading tow-boot on sdm845 devices | 23:31 |
| caleb[m] | the SHIFT6mq (sdm845 with no secureboot + active support from vendors) will hopefully end up with something a bit nicer, ie having tow-boot be more "permanent" rather than using hacks to trick the stock bootloader into thinking it's booting Linux | 23:32 |
| sicelo | missMyN900: see :-) | 23:32 |
| caleb[m] | it makes it actually feasible to do things liiiike let the user revert to a previous kernel, multi-boot, etc without having to do it via Android specific hacks | 23:35 |
| uvos | something something kexecboot :P | 23:46 |
| missMyN900 | uvos: SFOS is a lot nicer than LineageOS, c'mon ;) | 23:46 |
| missMyN900 | and it is still closer to typical desktop Linux than Android | 23:47 |
| uvos | its less foss | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | even though it may have parts of the "new" desktop Linux that I don't personally like (systemd, Wayland) | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | the UI is proprietary | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | but I don't think that Jolla is using that the spy on me | 23:47 |
| uvos | also some other stuff | 23:47 |
| uvos | on device | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | it is not comparable with Google's massive data collection operation | 23:47 |
| missMyN900 | and what they are using it for | 23:48 |
| uvos | los dosent have any sutch tracking | 23:48 |
| uvos | unless you install google services - which you just dont | 23:48 |
| missMyN900 | I would probably run SFOS on an Xperia if it was legally/officially available in the US | 23:48 |
| missMyN900 | but it is still Android | 23:49 |
| missMyN900 | do you also believe that running an imaginary proprietary desktop environment on Debian is worse than using LineageOS on a phone? | 23:49 |
| uvos | yes | 23:50 |
| uvos | idk what the fear is with android | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | ok then... | 23:50 |
| uvos | its fully foss | 23:50 |
| uvos | theres nothing wrong with it really | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | it is not really about fear in this case | 23:50 |
| uvos | its just not linux | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | but you are depending on Google ultimately | 23:50 |
| uvos | not really | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | and it is very far from typical desktop Linux | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | no GNU stuff at all | 23:50 |
| uvos | since again its fully foss if google dosent cooperate | 23:50 |
| missMyN900 | not even busybox by default | 23:51 |
| uvos | it gets forked | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | but who is funding the development? | 23:51 |
| uvos | (and los people have forkt lots of stuff) | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | and where does that money come from? | 23:51 |
| uvos | where dose the mony come from for the linux kernel? | 23:51 |
| uvos | same thing | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | I guess you could make that argument about the Linux kernel itself to some extent | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | at least that is diversified | 23:51 |
| missMyN900 | and it is not to the same degree | 23:52 |
| uvos | all major componantes of desktop linux are massively funded by coperate interests | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | yes, you do have Google and Facebook contributing | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | hardware vendors are still better than Google and Facebook | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | even Red Hat is still better than them | 23:52 |
| missMyN900 | and I am not a Red Hat fan at all to say the least | 23:52 |
| uvos | the point is using foss software dosent make you a dependant of the person who wrote the sw | 23:53 |
| uvos | thats the whole point of foss | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | I guess but it still feels a bit strange to me | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | to depend to such a large degree on one entity or person that is antagonistic towards you | 23:53 |
| missMyN900 | especially for something that needs constant (security) updates | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | if it is some library or application that is "finished", that is one thing | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | you can also replace it eventually | 23:54 |
| missMyN900 | I guess I need to continue with installing Mobian | 23:57 |
| sicelo | my view: los is perfectly fine for average use. sfos has an edge though if one is used to regular desktop linux and wants something closer to it on their phone | 23:57 |
| missMyN900 | towboot has been installed | 23:57 |
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