missMyN900 | uvos: xt1602 has even worse specs than the PP | 00:01 |
---|---|---|
missMyN900 | I think that SDM845 devices would still be better then | 00:02 |
uvos | well its gpu is mutch faster | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | if you are going to go with Qualcomm-based devices anyway | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | I guess | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | but 1/3 of the RAM | 00:02 |
uvos | and its cpu can idle | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | 1/4 of the eMMC | 00:02 |
uvos | 1/3? | 00:02 |
uvos | pp has 3g no | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | mine does ;) | 00:02 |
uvos | xt1602 has 2 | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | 1 according to GSMArena | 00:02 |
missMyN900 | https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g4_play-8104.php | 00:03 |
uvos | there are different versions | 00:03 |
uvos | thats xt1601 | 00:03 |
uvos | xt1602 has 2x the flash | 00:03 |
missMyN900 | I have a 3 GB/32 GB Beta Edition | 00:03 |
uvos | and 2x the ram | 00:03 |
missMyN900 | last version of the original PP | 00:03 |
uvos | of the one you linked | 00:03 |
missMyN900 | hmm that is better then | 00:03 |
missMyN900 | 2 GB RAM is acceptable | 00:03 |
missMyN900 | but how likely is that idle to actually ever work with mainline? | 00:03 |
uvos | no idea really | 00:04 |
uvos | the kernel is quite active | 00:04 |
uvos | so maybe some day but i dont active follow it | 00:04 |
sicelo | missMyN900: btw N900 *has* idled before with ML. just bitrot because only one person has worked on it so far, and they're stretched thin | 00:04 |
uvos | well not with all drivers loaded | 00:05 |
missMyN900 | that is good, I was never discussing the N900 though?? ;) | 00:05 |
uvos | if you load nothing | 00:05 |
uvos | it sill idles | 00:05 |
uvos | but you dont have any devices then | 00:05 |
uvos | anyhwo the plus points of xt1602 are: its cheep as chips (30 euro street price), volte, well supported by mainline, sill removable battery. | 00:06 |
missMyN900 | I doubt that VoLTE works in America though | 00:06 |
missMyN900 | because I have heard of even G7 not being supported | 00:06 |
missMyN900 | I don't know if that is with all networks | 00:06 |
missMyN900 | or just one | 00:06 |
missMyN900 | the whitelists are really nasty | 00:06 |
uvos | well idk what insane us carriers are doing | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | I am glad T-Mobile does not have one | 00:07 |
uvos | in eu it has volte | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | AT&T has a whitelist | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | they won't allow any device that is not on it | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | does not matter what it can do | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | theoretically it could 6G already | 00:07 |
uvos | that must really fuck with tourists then | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | they do not care at all | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | they are actually kicking existing customers off | 00:07 |
missMyN900 | I don't know what kind of business strategy that is but whatever | 00:08 |
missMyN900 | well, you already need to pay attention that your phone even supports American LTE bands | 00:08 |
missMyN900 | I don't know if those bands are also used in Latin America | 00:08 |
uvos | sure but thats easy | 00:08 |
missMyN900 | or only in US/Canada | 00:08 |
missMyN900 | some low-end Android phones apparently do not | 00:09 |
missMyN900 | they will only work well in Europe and Asia | 00:09 |
missMyN900 | I have been doing some limited research lately | 00:09 |
missMyN900 | I discovered that some countries are using completely different bands | 00:09 |
missMyN900 | some Europe/Australia oriented modems are completely useless in the US | 00:10 |
missMyN900 | so basically we are back to the bad old days | 00:10 |
missMyN900 | when you had dual band GSM phones | 00:10 |
missMyN900 | that were not suitable for worldwide use | 00:10 |
uvos | yes us has allways had silly incompatabil cell networks | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | you need to pay more to get the LTE equivalent of a "quad band" phone | 00:11 |
uvos | cdma anyone? :P | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | Korea was also using CDMA though | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | and some other countries | 00:11 |
uvos | sure, was quite rare really | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | it is similar to ATSC | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | and DVB-T | 00:11 |
missMyN900 | of course, with digital television there are even different standards in Asia | 00:12 |
missMyN900 | Korea and Japan have their own, China probably too | 00:12 |
uvos | sure | 00:12 |
uvos | dosent make it less silly | 00:12 |
missMyN900 | it made Qualcomm *a lot* money though | 00:12 |
missMyN900 | and gave them a lot of power in the market | 00:13 |
missMyN900 | why do you think that my North American BB Z10 has a Snapdragon when the international version had an OMAP4? | 00:13 |
missMyN900 | uvos: if you want to learn more: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/qvdawd/whats_going_on_with_att_and_the_whitelist/ | 00:14 |
missMyN900 | "Because they have to pay ATT to have their phones whitelisted. Many phone manufacturers decided that they don't want to pay to have their older or unpopular models whitelisted. Many others simply didn't want to pay ATT for the whitelisting." | 00:15 |
missMyN900 | you literally could not come up with something worse than this... | 00:15 |
missMyN900 | be glad that this is not happening in Europe | 00:16 |
missMyN900 | and fight hard to keep that from changing | 00:16 |
missMyN900 | because this will totally kill any alternative phone project | 00:16 |
uvos | if they tried this in europe the eu would probubly nuke them from orbit with anti-trust | 00:17 |
* sicelo should try LOS again on the d4 | 00:17 | |
missMyN900 | "You cant. And the work around wont work permanently, because phones are not included or excluded only by the IMEI. At&t sweeps imei regularly. I was able to get VoLTE on 6t, but a few weeks later it was kicked out." | 00:18 |
missMyN900 | they are actually actively policing what phone their customers are using | 00:18 |
missMyN900 | if this mentality spreads, then all alternative phone (OS) projects can start converting themselves to (WiFi) tablet projects... | 00:19 |
missMyN900 | 6T is of course the OnePlus 6T | 00:20 |
missMyN900 | so these are not old or obscure devices even | 00:20 |
missMyN900 | 6T is by the way also a relatively well supported pmOS phone | 00:21 |
missMyN900 | I think it maybe an SDM845 device actually | 00:21 |
missMyN900 | *may be | 00:21 |
sicelo | yes it is | 00:21 |
sicelo | both 6 and 6T have really good mainline support | 00:22 |
missMyN900 | at least we have Verizon and T-Mobile in the US, for now... | 00:25 |
missMyN900 | norayr: by the way, have you tried GNU Jami? I have heard of it but never used it | 00:26 |
sicelo | don't those also lock phones? | 00:26 |
missMyN900 | it is not about locked/unlocked | 00:27 |
missMyN900 | sicelo: you can have a fully VoLTE compatible, unlocked phone and they (AT&T) won't allow it on their network because they haven't been bribed by the manufacturer for that specific model | 00:28 |
missMyN900 | AFAIK, it is possible to unlock your phone anyway, idk | 00:28 |
missMyN900 | I have never had locked phones, except for my Z10 (and Galaxy Nexus that I gave away) but I don't have a SIM in those anyway | 00:29 |
missMyN900 | actually I do not know if the Z10 is locked | 00:29 |
missMyN900 | I know it is Canadian, ex-Rogers (GSM) | 00:29 |
missMyN900 | it could maybe on T-Mobile US | 00:29 |
missMyN900 | don't think it does VoLTE though | 00:29 |
missMyN900 | sicelo: like the 6T example, that person could have bought it directly from OnePlus (unlocked) for all I know | 00:30 |
missMyN900 | still they do not allow it | 00:30 |
missMyN900 | locked phones are really a lesser evil compared with this | 00:31 |
missMyN900 | like locked (but unlockable) bootloaders | 00:31 |
missMyN900 | one of those things that we used to complain/cry about in the past | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | but they have been surpassed by far greater evils since | 00:32 |
sicelo | ah, still got los on my droid 4 after all. just needed to change slots :p | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | :) | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | but why run Lineage on it? | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | aren't there much better devices for that? | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | seems like a waste of a D4 also | 00:32 |
sicelo | what else can i run on it? | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | ML | 00:32 |
missMyN900 | pmOS maybe | 00:33 |
missMyN900 | it should be able to run sxmo+pmOS well | 00:33 |
uvos | note that los on a safestrap slot is quite a bit slower than installing it natively to the main system partition | 00:33 |
uvos | (on d4) | 00:33 |
sicelo | i do | 00:33 |
missMyN900 | oh wait is sxmo wayland? | 00:33 |
uvos | wayland works fine on d4 | 00:34 |
missMyN900 | hmm that wouldn't work well on PowerVR... | 00:34 |
uvos | well mostly | 00:34 |
uvos | PowerVR has perfecly complinant drm drivers | 00:34 |
sicelo | uvos: meaning install over the stock android? | 00:34 |
missMyN900 | actually, is it not time to beg Imagination to release the source code? | 00:34 |
uvos | sicelo: yes | 00:34 |
missMyN900 | Do you guys know they are open sourcing their Rogue (6000 series) driver? | 00:35 |
uvos | yes and they went to the effort of reimplmenting the driver | 00:35 |
sicelo | i thought overwriting stock was risking a bricked phone. did things change? | 00:35 |
uvos | instead of releasing it | 00:35 |
uvos | sicelo: that was never the case | 00:35 |
missMyN900 | so those Mediatek (and Allwinner) devices will be freed | 00:35 |
sicelo | missMyN900: i have run phosh on the N900 | 00:35 |
missMyN900 | it is great news | 00:35 |
sicelo | i mean, droid 4 | 00:35 |
missMyN900 | hell has official frozen over | 00:35 |
uvos | so they went to the effort of reimplementing the rogue driver | 00:36 |
uvos | so they clearly cant release the current one | 00:36 |
missMyN900 | I would never have imagined that even Nvidia and Imagination would go down this path | 00:36 |
missMyN900 | uvos: yes | 00:36 |
uvos | the nviida "open source" driver | 00:36 |
missMyN900 | it is something | 00:36 |
uvos | is less open source then the powervr driver | 00:36 |
uvos | the "closed source" one | 00:36 |
uvos | and less compliant | 00:36 |
missMyN900 | AMD still has a proprietary driver component | 00:37 |
uvos | only fw | 00:37 |
missMyN900 | amdgpupro it is called | 00:37 |
missMyN900 | no | 00:37 |
missMyN900 | not just fw | 00:37 |
uvos | no one uses that | 00:37 |
missMyN900 | it is for certain standards | 00:37 |
uvos | its wors perf and worse compliance | 00:37 |
uvos | its only exists for cad certs | 00:37 |
missMyN900 | hmm | 00:37 |
uvos | amd has service contracts with cad vendors | 00:38 |
uvos | that require the maintiaince of the gl pipeline | 00:38 |
uvos | this forces the existance of amdgpu-pro | 00:38 |
uvos | even amd dosent really want it | 00:38 |
missMyN900 | still, ATI used to be horrible | 00:39 |
missMyN900 | people forget that | 00:39 |
missMyN900 | so Nvidia can change too, theoretically at least | 00:39 |
missMyN900 | and now we have Imagination as an example too :) | 00:39 |
uvos | ati was apathetic nvidia is hostlie | 00:40 |
missMyN900 | libv (Luc Verhaegen) would beg to differ | 00:40 |
uvos | (even when ati was maintaing the close source driver they did release specs/ datasheets for foss devs) | 00:40 |
uvos | sure | 00:40 |
uvos | not this radionhd shit again | 00:40 |
missMyN900 | you disagree? | 00:40 |
missMyN900 | I was reading some of his stuff yesterday | 00:40 |
uvos | lets not go there | 00:40 |
missMyN900 | because I did not know anything about that history | 00:41 |
missMyN900 | anyway, according to him ARM was also actually really hostile | 00:42 |
missMyN900 | don't know if that is true | 00:42 |
missMyN900 | I guess I need to read some different points of view as well | 00:42 |
missMyN900 | but yeah it is not a big priority for me honestly | 00:43 |
missMyN900 | there is enough in the present, after all | 00:43 |
missMyN900 | this TowBoot stuff is really confusing | 00:48 |
missMyN900 | apparently there are three different ways to install Mobian with it | 00:48 |
missMyN900 | and for one option the wiki says "Pinephone Pro" | 00:48 |
missMyN900 | so now I don't know if it is just outdated or if that option actually only works on the PPP | 00:49 |
missMyN900 | I guess I will have to try... | 00:49 |
missMyN900 | I should charge extra for this service of installing all this stuff... | 00:49 |
sicelo | maybe don't do it :-) | 00:50 |
missMyN900 | what? | 00:50 |
sicelo | what if the buyer wants to run ML? or Manjaro | 00:50 |
missMyN900 | from what I have heard, Mobian runs the best currently | 00:51 |
missMyN900 | so I think that most people will want that | 00:51 |
missMyN900 | personally I have a dislike of GNOME/phosh | 00:51 |
missMyN900 | but for the people who want a Linux phone that works as well as possible | 00:52 |
missMyN900 | which is probably the majority | 00:52 |
missMyN900 | the number of people who want to run ML is very small honestly | 00:52 |
missMyN900 | ML needs better advertising | 00:52 |
missMyN900 | but yeah, as long as the PP is not a priority for ML, it is maybe better to keep it this way | 00:52 |
missMyN900 | rather than getting a negative reputation | 00:52 |
sicelo | unfortunate | 00:53 |
missMyN900 | it is for sure | 00:53 |
missMyN900 | but it is just one of many distros listed on the Pine64 wiki | 00:53 |
sicelo | i only learned about these priorities today too | 00:53 |
missMyN900 | only reason I tried it is because I know what "Maemo" is :) | 00:53 |
missMyN900 | because I am an ex-N900 user | 00:53 |
missMyN900 | for the newer "generations" it is different | 00:54 |
missMyN900 | first time Linux phone users | 00:54 |
missMyN900 | or maybe people who have only used Jolla or Ubuntu Touch | 00:54 |
sicelo | plamo and phosh for those | 00:54 |
missMyN900 | or run SFOS on Xperia | 00:54 |
missMyN900 | maybe I will still buy a DB eventually to replace my Z10 as music player, if there is a good deal | 00:56 |
missMyN900 | for now, I would rather save the time and money | 00:56 |
missMyN900 | I already have so many devices | 00:56 |
missMyN900 | it is working | 01:03 |
missMyN900 | PP eMMC shows up as /dev/sdd | 01:03 |
missMyN900 | now I am just going with the old dd method and not this newfangled bmap stuff, whatever that is | 01:04 |
missMyN900 | because otherwise I will have to download the bmap image first... | 01:04 |
unege[m] | <sicelo> "unege: http://repository.maemo...." <- Thanks! This helped out, did a apt-get u-boot- tools and flasher and now I am om Leste as a dual boot! Will try to summarize on either of the wiki pages. | 01:04 |
missMyN900 | unege[m]: did you already have an N900? | 01:06 |
sicelo | unege[m]: yay! | 01:06 |
unege[m] | No bought it yesterday | 01:07 |
missMyN900 | congrats | 01:07 |
missMyN900 | is it in good condition? | 01:07 |
unege[m] | Worth it already | 01:07 |
missMyN900 | also, I read of some people using an external charger and never using the microUSB port | 01:07 |
unege[m] | missMyN900: Subliminsl | 01:07 |
missMyN900 | wait I need to download the normal mobian image... | 01:08 |
missMyN900 | sigh | 01:08 |
sicelo | i'm sure they could easily help you in the mobian chat. i don't have pp, otherwise i'd try | 01:08 |
missMyN900 | I do not like that towboot does not even provide a checksum either | 01:09 |
unege[m] | missMyN900: Yeah lets see, i might check if i can solder on a usb c | 01:09 |
sicelo | all i know is PP is working very well for many people with mobian and pmos. and we also know it's working very well with ML for rafael here, as it did for parazyd at least | 01:09 |
missMyN900 | but I mean, I can't be the only person with horrible battery life? | 01:10 |
missMyN900 | Wizzup was complaining about it as well, actually | 01:10 |
sicelo | i know :-) | 01:10 |
unege[m] | missMyN900: So many pieces of normie software don’t, and asking for it somehow does not make sense to most. Plain lame. | 01:10 |
missMyN900 | I used to never bother with it until I became more educated | 01:11 |
sicelo | i don't have pp, nor do i think i'll ever have one. and yes, it doesn't do idle like the droid 4. but the suspend works for myriads of other people. sounds good enough to me | 01:11 |
missMyN900 | it is also the hardware issues that have scared me frankly | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | it is one thing with a device like my $20 Z10 | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | or a $40 DB | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | but $200 is still a decent amount of money | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | it is not just one thing | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | it is a lot of little things stacked on top of each other if that makes sense | 01:12 |
missMyN900 | that led me to decide to sell it | 01:13 |
missMyN900 | I just think I can get something less risky and a lot more usable for that money | 01:13 |
missMyN900 | that is all | 01:14 |
sicelo | np | 01:14 |
unege[m] | Guys where do I post any feeback? | 01:14 |
missMyN900 | I just reported it here :) | 01:15 |
sicelo | wiki, or talk.maemo.org | 01:15 |
missMyN900 | I did file one issue on the ML github | 01:15 |
missMyN900 | but yeah of course for Maemo 5 it is different | 01:15 |
unege[m] | Nah ML | 01:15 |
missMyN900 | TMO ML section seems kind of dead to me | 01:15 |
unege[m] | Tmo? | 01:16 |
missMyN900 | talk.maemo.org | 01:16 |
sicelo | unege[m]: what kind of feedback btw? | 01:16 |
unege[m] | Minor usability stuff | 01:16 |
missMyN900 | it is acronym that us "old timers" use | 01:16 |
unege[m] | Lol | 01:16 |
missMyN900 | *an | 01:16 |
missMyN900 | even though I am not old and was far from the first to get an N900 | 01:16 |
missMyN900 | only got mine in 2012 | 01:17 |
sicelo | unege[m]: elaborate a bit | 01:17 |
unege[m] | unege[m]: And possibly some more | 01:17 |
missMyN900 | I would say do I like I did | 01:17 |
missMyN900 | post it here first | 01:17 |
missMyN900 | then if someone ask if you can file an issue do so on GH | 01:17 |
missMyN900 | *asks | 01:17 |
missMyN900 | unege[m]: even back then N900 was already showing its limits | 01:18 |
missMyN900 | actually I only bought it as a stop gap until the Jolla became available | 01:19 |
missMyN900 | since I was following them from the very beginning | 01:19 |
missMyN900 | but I ended up using it longer than expected ;) | 01:19 |
missMyN900 | not that I ended up minding that | 01:19 |
missMyN900 | I actually look back to it more fondly than I do towards my Jolla | 01:20 |
missMyN900 | even though the Jolla was not at all a bad device overall | 01:20 |
unege[m] | missMyN900: It shows | 01:20 |
missMyN900 | but yeah back then with things like web browsing it was already showing its limits | 01:20 |
missMyN900 | not comparable to the current situation of course | 01:21 |
missMyN900 | I was mostly using Opera Mini or Mobile | 01:21 |
missMyN900 | that worked pretty great except for the outdated standards support | 01:21 |
missMyN900 | I would have a ton of tabs open | 01:21 |
missMyN900 | back then I also did not have mobile data | 01:21 |
missMyN900 | so I would use an Opera feature to save tabs for offline reading | 01:22 |
missMyN900 | I also used MicroB, the Hildon browser, sometimes but not nearly as much | 01:22 |
missMyN900 | Fennec was pretty useless IIRC | 01:22 |
missMyN900 | it was already really outdated | 01:22 |
missMyN900 | and also slow/too bloated for the N900 IIRC | 01:22 |
sicelo | i got mine in 2011, and i'm still using it today (for calendar, alarms, and music playback). modem has died, otherwise i'd still be using it as a phone too. | 01:22 |
missMyN900 | I would still be using mine today probably if I had not sold it thinking that it was slowing down my WiFi network... | 01:23 |
missMyN900 | then, I would never have bought the Galaxy Nexus and Z10 | 01:23 |
sicelo | :-D | 01:23 |
missMyN900 | I would have used it for music at least | 01:23 |
missMyN900 | it is almost painful to think of it | 01:24 |
missMyN900 | I would have come up with lots of cool uses for it | 01:24 |
missMyN900 | and it would have saved a lot of time | 01:24 |
missMyN900 | compared to having to buy the Galaxy Nexus and Z10, flash them, set them up etc | 01:24 |
missMyN900 | I could have done awesome things like run NetBSD in QEMU | 01:25 |
missMyN900 | I think ARMv7 already had virtualization extensions | 01:25 |
sicelo | recently i have less free time, but i really want to spend some of it hacking away on the N900's bluetooth, power mgmt, etc. | 01:25 |
missMyN900 | I have discovered my Apple AirPods (yes, I do cringe typing that) work really well with my Z10 | 01:26 |
missMyN900 | despite the Z10 being much older ;) | 01:26 |
missMyN900 | Galaxy Nexus did not support the minimum Bluetooth version | 01:27 |
sicelo | aren't airpods just bt headset? | 01:27 |
missMyN900 | basically, yes | 01:27 |
missMyN900 | although they do have some nice features that only work with iOS devices | 01:27 |
missMyN900 | but overall it works really well with BB10 | 01:27 |
missMyN900 | I resisted Bluetooth headphones/earbuds for a long time | 01:28 |
missMyN900 | still do not like them | 01:28 |
missMyN900 | but it is still *really* convenient sometimes | 01:28 |
missMyN900 | I can use them when I could never use my big headphones | 01:28 |
missMyN900 | especially those with a heavy coiled cord... | 01:29 |
missMyN900 | sicelo: but yeah if they weren't just BT earbuds there is no way they would have worked with the Z10 | 01:29 |
missMyN900 | since BlackBerry had no way of knowing that they would be invented/released when they were designing the Z10 | 01:30 |
missMyN900 | or when BB10 10.3.1 was released | 01:30 |
unege[m] | <sicelo> "unege: elaborate a bit" <- Running an apt-get while then moving to the graphical app manager and clicking downloads simply says operation failed, where with M5 it was more verbose | 02:25 |
missMyN900 | unege[m]: you should check out the GSMArena N900 review :D: https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n900-review-421.php | 03:44 |
missMyN900 | finally, PP is booting Mobian | 03:59 |
missMyN900 | managed to install it | 03:59 |
lel | rafael2k opened a pull request: https://github.com/maemo-leste/pine64-kernel/pull/5 (Added proper v4l support for PP cameras) | 07:21 |
sicelo | unege[m]: that's a candidate for a github issue | 08:14 |
rafael2k_ | dual boot in maemo's u-boot is supported out-of-the-box through holding "key up" and "key down" volume keys | 08:25 |
rafael2k_ | always when I wake up is the same monologue by missMyN900... mamma mia! | 08:26 |
rafael2k_ | morning people! | 08:26 |
rafael2k_ | (maemo's pinephone u-boot) | 08:26 |
rafael2k_ | at some point I'll document this in wiki | 08:28 |
sicelo | rafael2k: actually not volume keys. just have the keyboard slider open, then it'll kick in | 08:32 |
sicelo | ah, you mean pinephone? | 08:32 |
rafael2k | right, in N900 right? | 08:35 |
rafael2k | yes, I was mentioning the PP | 08:36 |
sicelo | in maemo :-p | 08:36 |
rafael2k | in maemo, yes! | 08:37 |
sicelo | i'm just being pedantic ... | 08:37 |
rafael2k | -Opeđantic | 08:37 |
sicelo | nice work on the PP! not a pinephone user myself, but really appreciate it | 08:38 |
rafael2k | trying a advance a bit... now I'll try to get stop-gap solution for a user to be able to take pics in ML beowulf, before going to chimaera (that will be needed for libcamera + gstlibcamera) | 08:43 |
rafael2k | I can hear the camera shutter already | 08:43 |
rafael2k | : ) | 08:43 |
rafael2k | https://github.com/raspberrypi/libcamera-apps <- I like these command like tools... code could be put in a simple hildon gtk2 for taking pics | 09:20 |
rafael2k | yay, both cameras are working! | 10:20 |
bencoh | \o/ | 10:22 |
rafael2k | front camera image seems a bit greenish | 10:23 |
rafael2k | but the rear one (main one I'd say) is pretty ok | 10:23 |
rafael2k | https://www.abradig.org.br/maemo-crazyness/back_camera.jpg | 10:24 |
rafael2k | https://www.abradig.org.br/maemo-crazyness/front_camera.jpg | 10:25 |
rafael2k | two samples from the phone holding in the hand... a bit shacky, so far from optimum | 10:25 |
rafael2k | also poor light | 10:26 |
rafael2k | and this just with command line tools | 10:26 |
rafael2k | libcamera "cam" sample app, plus ffmpeg to convert from raw to jpg | 10:26 |
Wizzup | nice :) | 10:29 |
bencoh | rafael2k: the ov5640 has a builtin ISP if you want | 10:33 |
bencoh | you can use it to convert from raw (bayer) to rgb or yuv, and do some automatic whitebalance | 10:34 |
rafael2k | interesting... forgot what ISP is | 10:35 |
rafael2k | I'm using this to convert to jpg: | 10:35 |
rafael2k | ffmpeg -f image2 -vcodec rawvideo -s $size -pix_fmt bayer_bggr8 -i $input $output.jpeg | 10:35 |
bencoh | image signal processing | 10:35 |
rafael2k | ah yes, sorry | 10:35 |
bencoh | ffmpeg's bayer conversion is kinda flaky imho | 10:35 |
rafael2k | should I use ImageMagic one may bẻ | 10:36 |
bencoh | oh, if you're looking for a good raw image tool, look at ufraw | 10:36 |
bencoh | (and dcraw) | 10:36 |
rafael2k | right, I have it here, MegaPixels use it | 10:36 |
bencoh | it needs a DNG header, but you can add using makeDNG | 10:37 |
rafael2k | hopefully we'll not need to call system() from our app... eheheheh | 10:37 |
bencoh | nah, it's just for debugging purpose | 10:37 |
rafael2k | sure, indeed, I'm still in the "initial bringup" phase | 10:37 |
bencoh | libcamera should have some kind of support for that (assuming you're still willing to use it) | 10:38 |
rafael2k | I'm using it | 10:38 |
bencoh | :) | 10:38 |
rafael2k | these images where captured with libcamera "cam" sample application | 10:38 |
bencoh | https://libcamera.org/api-html/classlibcamera_1_1BayerFormat.html#aa419b8f69f498c9653169eec3c06b21f | 10:38 |
bencoh | :) | 10:38 |
rafael2k | cool | 10:39 |
rafael2k | it might me I'll leave gstreamer aside a but | 10:40 |
rafael2k | *bit | 10:40 |
rafael2k | as libcamera gstlibcamera is a bit clunky, could not really make it work, even in bullseye / chimaera | 10:41 |
rafael2k | but libcamera I'm hopefully to make it compile in ML beowulf... with some small backport work (plus newer meson) | 10:42 |
rafael2k | *I'm hopeful | 10:42 |
bencoh | I wonder how good libcamera is with 3A | 10:42 |
bencoh | (if at all) | 10:43 |
rafael2k | what 3A is? | 10:43 |
bencoh | auto exposure/whitebalance/focus | 10:45 |
bencoh | once you have that and decent bayer conversion, you'll be good to ship :) | 10:45 |
rafael2k | uhum, afaik, libcamera has API for all these | 10:47 |
bencoh | (you could also rely on the ov5640 for that part btw, but that would be very specific/non-reusable, and iirc it's not *that* good/reliable) | 10:47 |
rafael2k | ov5640 support is indeed getting good | 10:48 |
bencoh | did you have a working example for the MIPI/CSI part btw? | 10:48 |
bencoh | (on sunx6i) | 10:48 |
bencoh | -x | 10:48 |
rafael2k | a guy from libcamera mailing submitted lots of improvements (which will be in our kernel as soon as Wizzup accepts the PR) | 10:48 |
rafael2k | yes! | 10:48 |
bencoh | ah, nice | 10:49 |
rafael2k | https://github.com/maemo-leste/pine64-kernel/pull/5 | 10:49 |
rafael2k | ^^ | 10:49 |
bencoh | :) | 10:50 |
rafael2k | with these kernel, we can already start to play in the userland... of course there are things to improve in the drivers, but the minimum is there already | 10:52 |
rafael2k | *this kernel | 10:52 |
bencoh | yeah ... honestly that's super cool :) | 10:52 |
rafael2k | : )) | 10:53 |
rafael2k | indeed! | 10:53 |
Wizzup | poke me in a few hrs and I'll merge ;) | 11:50 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: do you think you could rebase/squash the commits a bit? | 12:05 |
Wizzup | otherwise, looks good! | 12:05 |
rafael2k | Wizzup: If you think this is better, can't you just eđit the changelog, patches/series, and ađd patches/maemo/24[4-7]-* ? | 12:26 |
rafael2k | : ) | 12:26 |
Wizzup | it's more like fix for sun6i rework | 12:29 |
Wizzup | @rafael2k | 12:29 |
Wizzup | sorry for the @ highlight there | 12:29 |
Wizzup | you can mark those as fixup right/ | 12:29 |
Wizzup | but I can do it if you want | 12:29 |
sicelo | rafael2k: wow! that looks great indeed | 12:39 |
rafael2k | yes indeed, I forgot to put in the changelog a more meaningful text | 12:56 |
rafael2k | indeed, there are both cameras patches plus sun6i-csi patches | 12:56 |
rafael2k | Wizzup: if you can do, perfect! if not, lemme know I edit the changelog | 12:57 |
rafael2k | <- taking a look on pixel formats and conversion stuff... checking for next steps tbd | 13:06 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: it's not about the changelog, it's about the 'fixup' commits | 13:11 |
Wizzup | also using the same tag is bound to give trouble | 13:11 |
Wizzup | in our build system | 13:11 |
rafael2k | cant you just copy over the patches and ađd the lines to series? | 13:13 |
rafael2k | : ) | 13:13 |
Wizzup | kk | 13:15 |
rafael2k | if you leave to me, I'll just use rm -r, delete repo, fork repo | 13:29 |
rafael2k | :P | 13:29 |
Wizzup | kk | 13:29 |
Wizzup | sec | 13:29 |
rafael2k | I'll get better eventually | 13:29 |
rafael2k | :P | 13:30 |
Wizzup | I can help with git stuff | 13:30 |
rafael2k | : ) | 14:43 |
rafael2k | ok, but for this new features, can you just import and trigger the packages creation? | 14:46 |
Wizzup | if I do that as it, it will fail, as we alread y have a source package for this kernel | 14:47 |
Wizzup | for this specific version | 14:47 |
rafael2k | I don't get it | 14:52 |
rafael2k | I added a -2 to the kernel version in the changelog | 14:52 |
Wizzup | let me check | 14:55 |
Wizzup | https://www.ebay.com/itm/174585831228 razr m lot's available | 14:56 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: xt907 is not a mapphone | 15:03 |
uvos__ | its xt91x that are mapphones | 15:03 |
uvos__ | (and called razor *) | 15:03 |
uvos__ | and xt890 is a phone with efi and a an atom processor (but medfield, kernel dropped support recently) | 15:05 |
uvos__ | was well supported in the past iirc | 15:05 |
uvos__ | (another "razr" phone) | 15:05 |
Wizzup | uvos__: ah | 15:08 |
Wizzup | https://www.ebay.com/itm/175293049844 these then | 15:08 |
uvos__ | right | 15:08 |
Wizzup | but I have some of those here | 15:08 |
uvos__ | but i would buy xt910 | 15:08 |
Wizzup | I think I might have those here on my desk | 15:09 |
uvos__ | since xt910 is xt912 with a unlocked bootloader | 15:09 |
uvos__ | (sold in europe)> | 15:09 |
Wizzup | ah | 15:09 |
Wizzup | like this then I guess https://www.ebay.com/itm/125268934939 | 15:09 |
uvos__ | i would look on eu ebay | 15:10 |
uvos__ | since they where sold mostly in eu | 15:10 |
uvos__ | you can ususly have some on german ebay | 15:10 |
Wizzup | yeah I think I see some | 15:12 |
tmlind | i recall xt910 modem is custom.. qmi over spi, no support for that likely ever in the mainline kernel | 15:13 |
tmlind | same modem but on spi | 15:14 |
uvos__ | same ith xt912 or? | 15:14 |
uvos__ | iirc | 15:14 |
uvos__ | *with | 15:14 |
tmlind | i think xt912 is wired the same way as bionic and droid 4 | 15:15 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: if you want something new maybe buy mb865 | 15:17 |
uvos__ | there are lots on us ebay | 15:17 |
uvos__ | i dont think anyone of us has one of those | 15:17 |
humpelstilzchen[ | uvos__: for PP sleep/crust. Change to mce.ini worked | 15:18 |
Wizzup | ah, yeah | 15:18 |
Wizzup | I also have like 20 xt610's here still | 15:18 |
Wizzup | humpelstilzchen[: what change was that? | 15:18 |
uvos__ | mb865 is a mapphone | 15:18 |
uvos__ | xt610 is not .) | 15:18 |
uvos__ | :) | 15:18 |
Wizzup | yeah | 15:18 |
Wizzup | also have a bunch of mz617 here | 15:19 |
Wizzup | did I ever send you one of those? | 15:19 |
uvos__ | yes | 15:19 |
uvos__ | i have one | 15:19 |
uvos__ | it runs mainline | 15:19 |
uvos__ | with no display thus far | 15:19 |
Wizzup | right, that I do remember | 15:20 |
uvos__ | but most stuff works | 15:20 |
Wizzup | ok | 15:20 |
Wizzup | heh | 15:20 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: humpelstilzchen[ is talking about disabeling the power button handlin in mce | 15:20 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: it interfers with waking up from sleep | 15:20 |
Wizzup | hmmm | 15:20 |
uvos__ | so the problem is | 15:21 |
uvos__ | that when you go to sleep mce dosent run | 15:21 |
uvos__ | obviously | 15:21 |
uvos__ | and then you press power to wake | 15:21 |
uvos__ | by the time the phone wakes up the timestamp of the powerkey press is really old | 15:21 |
uvos__ | so mce thinks its a long pres | 15:21 |
uvos__ | and the action of longpress is shutdown | 15:22 |
uvos__ | so it looks like the phone crashes on resume | 15:22 |
uvos__ | we need to reagange the default key actions anhow imo | 15:23 |
uvos__ | make singepless lock the device | 15:23 |
uvos__ | etc | 15:23 |
uvos__ | current setup is nonsensical on anything not the n900 | 15:23 |
Wizzup | right | 15:24 |
Wizzup | uvos__: not for now, but later I'd love to try to make the mz617 run mainline, even without display | 15:24 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: its fun | 15:25 |
Wizzup | wrt the Motorola ATRIX 2 MB865, that's not a mapphone I guess? | 15:25 |
uvos__ | Wizzup: since you can brick it if you look at it wrng | 15:25 |
uvos__ | yes it is | 15:25 |
uvos__ | http:/uvos.xyz/maserati/mapphones.ods | 15:25 |
Wizzup | ok | 15:25 |
uvos__ | please refer to the spreadsheet | 15:25 |
Wizzup | sorry, I forgot | 15:25 |
Wizzup | maybe we can put it on the wiki :) | 15:26 |
uvos__ | its exaustive | 15:26 |
Wizzup | *nod* | 15:26 |
uvos__ | since it comes from a dump of motorals update tree | 15:26 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: do I need to change the tag, or is it the same mobian kernel otherwise? | 15:47 |
lel | MerlijnWajer closed a pull request: https://github.com/maemo-leste/pine64-kernel/pull/5 (Added proper v4l support for PP cameras) | 16:13 |
rafael2k | Wizzup: same tag! | 16:17 |
rafael2k | some mobian kernel as base | 16:18 |
rafael2k | *same | 16:18 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: it's running now, but I think it will fail | 16:19 |
Wizzup | we'll just see | 16:19 |
Wizzup | easier this way | 16:19 |
rafael2k | tks! | 16:22 |
rafael2k | https://phoenix.maemo.org/job/pine64-kernel-source/79/ | 16:24 |
rafael2k | : ) | 16:24 |
rafael2k | I can see a spinner! | 16:24 |
Wizzup | the failure will be at -repos | 16:24 |
Wizzup | after the full kernel build | 16:24 |
Wizzup | but we'll see | 16:24 |
rafael2k | hum, ok | 16:27 |
rafael2k | it will clash with the source of the older kernel? | 16:28 |
Wizzup | yes, that's what I said :P | 16:28 |
Wizzup | afaik the source packages don't care about -1 or -2 | 16:28 |
Wizzup | but we'll see | 16:28 |
rafael2k | right, I'm with fingers crossed | 16:40 |
rafael2k | btw, we'll need to backport a newer meson, can I just put in git the bullseye / chimaera version and we build it for ourselves (this is for libcamera)? | 16:41 |
rafael2k | I don't see any problem on having a newer meson | 16:41 |
rafael2k | (of course I'll do the needed changes for it to build and play nice in beowulf( | 16:42 |
rafael2k | or, we build add a libcamera package built somehow in a đirty system | 16:43 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: looks like it passed | 17:04 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: want to check that it works? | 17:04 |
rafael2k | sure | 17:05 |
rafael2k | linux-image-pine64 arm64 5.15.48-2+2m7 | 17:07 |
Wizzup | :) | 17:10 |
rafael2k | I think I'll have to buy another pp keyboard by myself... pine64 does not even answer me anymore | 17:13 |
rafael2k | uname -a Linux devuan-pinephone 5.15.48 #1 SMP Fri Jul 1 14:32:07 UTC 2022 aarch64 GNU/Linux | 17:24 |
rafael2k | all good | 17:24 |
rafael2k | any advice on libcamera ? I'll just go ahead backporting the need stuff, _if_ it is not too much... | 17:30 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: how much do you need | 17:35 |
rafael2k | ok | 17:36 |
Wizzup | what packages I mean | 17:37 |
rafael2k | I'll not build gstlibcamera for now, as I don't plan to backport gstreamer... as it is waaay to invasive | 17:37 |
rafael2k | my dream plan is just meson | 17:37 |
rafael2k | we leave that for ML chimaera | 17:38 |
rafael2k | but just with libcamera we can already have a simple hildon app | 17:38 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: we need meson for libcamera? | 17:58 |
rafael2k | a newer one, yes | 18:33 |
rafael2k | hummm, wait, it is in buster-backports | 18:33 |
rafael2k | is there a beowulf-backports? | 18:34 |
Wizzup | http://deb.devuan.org/devuan/dists/beowulf-backports/ | 18:34 |
rafael2k | yay | 18:35 |
rafael2k | libcamera is already in sid, lemme see if I get it "for free" | 18:38 |
rafael2k | just tweak a bit the rules | 18:38 |
Wizzup | rafael2k: yeah imported is not usually too hard, although in sid it might need a lot of really new stuff | 18:54 |
rafael2k | libcamera itself (without tools and plugins) does not need that much dependencies | 19:08 |
rafael2k | wow, installing just meson and debhelper from beowulf-backports compilation started... that is good news... only build tools, so the package (if compilation finishes) will be fine to be in the distro | 19:17 |
Wizzup | ok | 19:40 |
Wizzup | so just libcamera then? | 19:40 |
rafael2k | uhum! | 19:55 |
rafael2k | it was creating the package, but my daugher playing madbomber plus package creation crashed the phone - but it worked! | 19:56 |
rafael2k | just debhelper and meson from beowulf-backports | 19:57 |
rafael2k | https://packages.debian.org/sid/libcamera0 | 19:58 |
rafael2k | : ) | 19:58 |
rafael2k | I forgot to set the cpu scheduler to powersave | 20:00 |
rafael2k | X still has some glitches, I need to disable auto-reboot | 20:03 |
rafael2k | my 4 yr old daughter sometimes still manages to crash it | 20:04 |
rafael2k | https://github.com/rafael2k/libcamera | 21:47 |
rafael2k | I'm doing some last tweaks for us | 21:47 |
rafael2k | but generally, we'll keep tracking libcamera git | 21:48 |
rafael2k | the tweaks are just in "debian" folder, we'll use stock libcamera, as it should be | 21:48 |
rafael2k | : ) | 21:48 |
rafael2k | which gtk2 / hildon widget should I use to display the image in a simple app? | 21:49 |
rafael2k | I think for now I would want the simplest possible app the select front / back camera, and take a pic | 21:49 |
rafael2k | (and record the jpeg or heif somewhere) | 21:51 |
rafael2k | I'm not if these sensors can get 10-bit depth... but reading "bayer" it seems they dont do not even 8 bit... eheheheh | 21:52 |
rafael2k | (per channel) | 21:52 |
rafael2k | bencoh: some insight? | 21:53 |
rafael2k | btw, is the N900 camera supported somehow? | 22:57 |
rafael2k | (people asked in the libcamera mailing) | 22:57 |
uvos | the n900 could take (terrible) images with the mainline kernel in the past | 22:58 |
uvos | i dont think anyone has tried it half way recently | 22:58 |
uvos | in theory all bits are floating around | 22:59 |
rafael2k | right | 22:59 |
rafael2k | we could advance it a bit... in case it is something wish for | 22:59 |
uvos | oh sure would be neat | 22:59 |
rafael2k | may be have a common low level camera stack | 22:59 |
rafael2k | (for Maemo-Leste) | 23:00 |
rafael2k | I'm learning a bit about modern v4l2 drivers and its fancy ioctl for controls | 23:01 |
rafael2k | libcamera in theory can take care of the rest (control management / post-processing) | 23:02 |
rafael2k | N900 has a OMAP3 based ISP right? | 23:04 |
uvos | ofc | 23:04 |
rafael2k | right | 23:05 |
rafael2k | may be I'll want to have a N900 again | 23:06 |
rafael2k | : ) | 23:06 |
rafael2k | so much memories, I'm not sure I should, but anyway | 23:07 |
rafael2k | libcamera has a concept of pipelines to support ISP, need to understand it a bit better | 23:09 |
rafael2k | https://github.com/rafael2k/libcamera | 23:31 |
rafael2k | ok, this is libcamera-0.1 | 23:31 |
rafael2k | I just create libcamera_0.1.orig.tar.gz for source, I packages build with debhelper and meson from beowulf-backports | 23:32 |
norayr | we also don't have portable flashlight, right? which will work on all devices. | 23:52 |
norayr | we need to have a default configuration of long press to become right click. | 23:53 |
sicelo | no application yet, yes, because in most cases the torch is controlled over v4l, and in most devices the camera isn't working (fully?) yet | 23:53 |
sicelo | however you can use the torch on both droid 4 and n900 at least by manually playing with i2c. instructions in the wiki. something similar should be possible with pp i guess, although probably that one can already be controlled over v4l | 23:54 |
norayr | yeah, because i was in need of a flashlight several times, and droid is the default device i am carrying with me, sometimes also with pp. | 23:54 |
norayr | so i was thinking maybe i need to write a simple non-portable app which will only work for my devices. | 23:54 |
norayr | but this default xorg configuration for long press is really necessary. to open links in other tabs for example. | 23:56 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!