| [10 Feb 2022 09:55:36] <sicelo> Leste already fits in the bylaws ... no need for further clarifications. see Bylaws, 2(1). Maemo Leste is Maemo 'proper' - as much as modern software allows :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 10:07:51] <sicelo> i might be shortsighted, but i think if we wish to add any other projects to the bylaws, we must first contact them and get their agreement | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 10:33:16] <sicelo> Bylaws 14(2) is interesting :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:29:12] <juiceme_> Hiya all, is there any estimate how many members will attend the meeting today? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:29:50] <reinob> I think if we reach 10 we can consider ourselves happy ;-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:30:12] <juiceme_> As MCev has currently 20 active members, we need 7 to be present to have quorum (1/3 of members) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:30:30] <juiceme_> 10 is excellent :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:32:12] <joerg> I don't see why we would want to changing bylaws for "add any other projects" - like sicelo I think that's not needed, the bylaws were made to be inclusive | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:33:01] <sicelo> I'll attend o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:34:28] <juiceme_> joerg, did you check your email? I sent Macros's membership application for your review/approval | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:35:27] <joerg> sorry, didn't check yet | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:35:42] <joerg> ny IT had a major hickup 12h ago | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:35:47] <joerg> my* | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:36:42] <juiceme_> OK, please check your mail so we might get new member before the meeting. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:36:45] <reinob> joerg: OK. If it's not needed then better. I don't know the text by heart.. and the point was rather that today the focus should be, if possible, in getting the legal matters in order. Any further changes, if and as needed, can wait IMHO. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:37:44] <joerg> yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:39:04] <joerg> I'm absolutely happy with accepting new active members. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:40:01] <joerg> I forgot the detauls about how to accept new members in eV. Is written down in bylaws. maybe somebody alreay reading those may tell | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:40:53] <joerg> either board or majority of members accepting, I guess, is needed | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:41:12] <juiceme_> accepting is dead easy, application is sent to board, and then majority of board members accepts it. (current board ia me, you and falk) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:42:26] <joerg> plus membership "in community" for some 6 months? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:42:49] <juiceme_> yes, at least 3 months is needed | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:43:14] <juiceme_> basically age of TMO/Maemo account | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:43:16] <joerg> juiceme_: you "know" that new member from tmo whatever? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:43:35] <juiceme_> by reputation and posts | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:43:51] <joerg> reasonable contributions, no trilling / spamming? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:44:10] <joerg> trolling* | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:44:25] <juiceme_> yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:44:28] <joerg> then ok | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:44:44] <joerg> welcome new member :-) \o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:45:58] <juiceme_> Yee!! \o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:48:00] <reinob> Yippee! \o/ :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:55:33] <joerg> anybody see warfare? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:56:20] <joerg> I even tried SMS -> "wrong number". [10 Feb 2022 17:54:59] [CTCP] Received CTCP-VERSION reply from warfare: thelounge v4.3.0 -- https://thelounge.chat/. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:57:06] <joerg> [10 Feb 2022 17:56:42] [Whois] warfare is logged in as warfare. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:57:21] <joerg> [10 Feb 2022 17:56:43] [Notice] -NickServ- Last seen : (less than two weeks ago) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 17:58:18] <-> chanserv> op #maemo-meeting | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 17:59:36] <sixwheeledbeast> o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:00:01] <-> chanserv> deop #maemo-meeting | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 18:00:16] [Error] You need to be a channel operator in #maemo-meeting to do that. | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 18:00:59] <-> chanserv> op #maemo-meeting | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 18:01:26] <joerg> hi sixwheeledbeast | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:01:36] <joerg> welcome macros__ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:02:35] <joerg> afk, need do shopping | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:02:52] <juiceme> ya, see you in 2 hours | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:03:32] <-> chanserv> op #maemo-meeting juiceme | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:03:32] *** ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to juiceme. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:04:40] <macros__> Hello :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:06:19] <juiceme> hi macros__ and welcome to the community! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:06:28] * juiceme wawes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:06:36] <halftux> hi and welcome macros | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:09:03] <joerg> somebody please provide a summary what needs to be done today. In channel | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:09:11] <halftux> I need to logout and go home to login again cya later | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:09:29] <-- halftux (~halftux@usd-010-112.usd.bessy.de) has left this channel. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:11:29] <juiceme> 1. Take roster | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:11:29] <juiceme> 2. Elect chair and secretary for meeting | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:11:29] <juiceme> 3. I'll present the accounts | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:11:29] <juiceme> 4. election of the board | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:11:29] <juiceme> 5. AOB | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:47:13] <joerg> please provide links to the most accurate and up to date info about current situation, bylaws etc. I found http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoCommunity_eV and that seems not completely up to date any more? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:49:55] <halftux> need voice again plz | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:51:49] <halftux> I don't know any other maybe it wasn't updated at all. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 18:51:56] <-> chanserv> op #maemo-meeting | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 18:54:08] <joerg> I guess +V not needed to distinguish members from the drop-in audience ;-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:06:52] <halftux> joerg, maybe here are some changes https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=97086 | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 19:17:34] <joerg> please re-read the letters, regarding what actually needs to be done. Starting at | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:17:35] <joerg> > On 2/18/21 3:25 PM, Christian Weniger wrote: | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:17:35] <joerg> >> Hi Juice, could you write/send the following e-mail as fast as | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:17:35] <joerg> >> possible to the AG Kaiserslautern with our offical Maemo e-mail | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:17:35] <joerg> >> account please | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:18:55] <joerg> this is way more intricate than just "elect new board" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:20:26] <joerg> at very least it needs proper documentation, and for actually elöecting a new board we need to provide a proper invitation to this general assembly which the AG Kaiserslautern requires for accepting the whole thing | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:24:21] <macros__> A German court once ruled that a minimal time of 1 week has to be between invitation and an assembly | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:25:11] <reinob> We could argue that we had to organize this urgently (our fault being late, but the Zwangsgeldandrohung came a few days ago). | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:25:27] <reinob> IIRC we need "Vorlage des Protokolls der Mitgliederversammlung, in der eine Abberufung erfolgt ist, nebst Einladungsschreiben erfolgen." | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:25:52] <halftux> I would say juice was writing an invitation that was ok. Now we need somebody who is doing a protocol of the meeting. Then we should vote a new board. And two new voted board members need to go to a notary. And maybe we should have a list with all members. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:26:47] <reinob> problem is obviously Gido is not there and chemist is also AWOL. But we can formally do the Abberufung thing, I guess. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:27:11] <macros__> As long as nobody complains I guess a shorter time should be ok. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:27:25] <joerg> we need to evaluate what is the concern of AG Kaiserslautern and what would be the easiest way to accommodate/satisfy those | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:28:17] <reinob> Right. They need a proper board being registered. And this is something we could decide + minute today. They will at least have to acknowledge that we're trying to comply. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:28:36] <joerg> basically AG is checking if our eV is acting according to own bylaws. << read that twice and think about it, what it implies and what's resulting from that... or should result | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:28:45] <halftux> there was no notary proof from change of the board so juice is the only board member. They are waiting for the change with falk and you joerg | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:29:26] <halftux> but to vote and make a new board is ok and then tell them | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:29:40] <joerg> I'm not available anymore since obviously I can't cope with the duty | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:30:02] <joerg> Falk is MIA since months | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:30:47] <halftux> yes we need to nominate other people and vote | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:32:28] <halftux> so first we need an election leader who can't be a candidate | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:32:30] <joerg> just saying. It's difficult to keep an organizational structure like an eV working and alive weh that structure defines itself as consisting of at least 6 persons in management/administration, while the whole entity only consists of barely more than those 6 persons | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:32:50] <halftux> thats true | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:34:14] <joerg> maemo council had not been elected since dunnowhen | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:34:21] <reinob> but the only alternative is to drop the eV, and this would have also other negative consequences. so as long as we have 3+3 people we should be (absurdly) fine. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:34:49] <joerg> that's THE question. Is it _really_ the only alternative? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:34:50] <nonsuch> Lurking... is it 20:00 yet in Germany? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:35:12] <reinob> not yet, but whatever can be clarified before 20:00. if at all. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:35:13] <macros__> 19:35 here | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:35:16] <joerg> cmd: date >Thu Feb 10 19:35:16 CET 2022 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:36:33] <halftux> A General Assembly has to be called as well if it is mandated by the association's interests , or if at least one third of the active members of the association request so in writing or electronically or by mail giving its purpose and reasons. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:37:12] <halftux> Otherwise once in a year 4 weeks before | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:37:54] <joerg> from bylaws I read that when members of board quit, the remaining board members could either say "no problem now we're only 2 (or 1)" *OR* *they* could nominate a replacement from community to serve as board member until board eventually gets newly elected | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:42:04] <joerg> MC eV told AG Kaiserslautern "we had a change in board, there are 2 members that quit and there are two new members" and so now AG Kaiserslautern asks for formal approval of that. I wonder if any such approval is needed and what exactly it has to look like. Maybe a simple letter from the remaining board with a statement like "we hereby approve we don't elect any replacement board memebers and will continue as is (only 1 member) until general assembly | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:42:04] <joerg> calls for a new election of board" could suffice? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:43:42] <reinob> we could try that, if Juice agrees he could send that e-mail refering to chapter (7)(6) "" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:43:51] <reinob> "Beim Ausscheiden von einzelnen Vorstandsmitgliedern können die Aufgaben des ausgeschiedenen Vorstandsmitglieds von den verbliebenen Vorstandsmitgliedern übernommen werden, sofern diese zustimmen. Alternativ kann sich der Vorstand bis zur nächsten regulären Wahl durch Vorstandsbeschluss aus der Reihe der aktiven Mitglieder ergänzen." | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:44:02] <joerg> ^^^ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:44:19] <reinob> if they swallow that, we have some peace, and can organize a regular GA with time, etc. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:44:38] <macros__> That sounds like a perfect solution | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:44:58] <reinob> if they don't, we can already and speculatively plan/ask who'd volunteer to be elected as board. to be ready. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:46:13] <joerg> wait please, I gonna call that lady from AG Kaiserslautern tomorrow or Monday and ask explain the situation to her and ask her if we could handle this in a way so she is happy and we actually can succeed to do so | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:46:27] <joerg> reinob: excellent | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:46:38] <reinob> joerg: excellent, too! :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:48:56] <halftux> hope this will work but I asked last year what we should do. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:49:11] <joerg> in my book the eV is not designed to cope with this "maintenance mode" situation. We should try to find out if there's a "standby mode" for an eV | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:50:50] <reinob> halftux: From your e-mail of 04.02.2021 when you called the Amtsgericht "For the notary certified papers we need two persons from the board who need to sign and go to a notary. (§7.3 ...Any two of these three Board members together are authorized to fully represent the association.)" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:51:22] <reinob> don't know how the "two persons" can work in our current case :( | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:51:39] <halftux> we need to vote them first | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:52:05] <reinob> ah OK, so that's for the new board, when there's a new board :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:52:30] <halftux> but they were thinking that we got already 3 juice, falk and joerg and they wanted a notary proof of the changes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:52:59] <halftux> and maybe Schiller told them that he left | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:54:10] <joerg> this situation is based on a lot of misconceptions. Better sort it radically that try to follow a path based on false assumptions | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:54:23] <joerg> than* | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:54:24] <reinob> Right. So they should know that this information is not correct anymore (re. Falk and Jörg), so we stay with Juice as only board member, as per our own Satzung | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:54:39] <joerg> exactly | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:55:52] <joerg> and since we seem to have quorum(? word) today for GA, we could decide and approve a change of bylaws that simply eliminates any mandatory time schedule for a new election | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:56:23] <reinob> \o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:57:08] <reinob> but that's not in the agenda.. so attorney-me says no (and no, I'm not an attorney). plus formal invitation way in advance, etc. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:58:05] <joerg> yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 19:58:30] <joerg> so decide to decide in due course, with appropriate invitation and all | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:00:20] <juiceme> Hi again | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:00:28] <reinob> hey | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:00:36] <nonsuch> hey | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:00:38] <joerg> first of all we need to avoid that 600.- fine. That's a nogo. So probably send whatever statement in that topic to AG Kaiserslautern, stating "all ok" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:01:09] <juiceme> I just read back the log a bit, on discussion about the issues what the magistrate really wants | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:01:27] <juiceme> joerg yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:01:36] <halftux> Fellfrosch applied 15min ago at board@maemo.org for membership | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:01:46] <reinob> great! welcome! :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:01:53] <Fellfrosch> Hi there | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:02] <halftux> yeah welcome :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:14] <joerg> wow, TWO new members | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:16] <juiceme> Fellfrosch, hi. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:18] * Oksanaa waves sleepily | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:21] <joerg> hi Fellfrosch | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:28] <Fellfrosch> I have no clue from anything but if I cn help with membership.... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:30] <eLtMosen> Hi all <3 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:30] <joerg> moin Oksanaa :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:37] <juiceme> Fellfrosch, I have not received your application yet? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:02:43] <Oksanaa> Good morning joerg :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:03:01] <joerg> afk for 10 minutes, sorry | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:03:04] <juiceme> Oksanaa, ah yes, morning down there :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:03:25] <juiceme> eLtMosen, hi! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:03:39] <Fellfrosch> Let me have a look. if there is something fishy with my mail | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:03:57] <eLtMosen> Heya juiceme | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:03] <sicelo> \o | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:11] <juiceme> Fellfrosch did you send it to my pwesonal mail or board@maemo.org | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:25] <Fellfrosch> to board@maemo.org | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:43] <juiceme> that should forward to me and joerg | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:56] <eLtMosen> Yay sicelo!! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:04:58] <Fellfrosch> Sent it at 19:43 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:15] <joerg> I don't receive any maemo emails anymore, I'm not in the alias of any maemo mail | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:20] <Fellfrosch> and its out of my mailbox successfully | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:24] <juiceme> ah, could you resend it to juice@swagman.org | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:35] <Fellfrosch> sure | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:38] <joerg> at least I think so | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:05:45] <juiceme> possibly there is something awry at the maemo mail bouncer | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:06:35] <reinob> in any case I'd say that Fellfrosch already counts as active member, as we have all seen that he sent the form in due time.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:06:55] <juiceme> reinob +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:06:59] <eLtMosen> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:07:08] <Fellfrosch> Mail sent to juice@swagman.org | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:08:01] <reinob> Quorum looks like no problem, do we need to count? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:08:19] <juiceme> yes, lets proceed with the meeting. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:08:47] <nonsuch> Do I count, as a passive member? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:08:55] <juiceme> joerg, as the chairman of the board, would you like to say some opening words or shall I? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:09:20] <juiceme> nonsuch, unfortunately not in roster | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:09:26] <sicelo> he's afk for a short wile (10 mins he said) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:09:40] <nonsuch> that's fine - just lurking | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:10:09] <juiceme> Fellfrosch, still no mail in my inbox :O | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:10:29] <sicelo> juiceme: so i guess you are in charge :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:10:44] <reinob> formally juiceme is the only board member, so in my book he's the chairman too? (after all, that's our argument towards Kaiserslautern, isn't it?) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:10:54] <juiceme> right, so I'll continue then. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:11:16] <juiceme> Thank you all members of the Maemo Community e.V. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:11:53] <juiceme> It is a pleasure to see so many of you here today, even though the invitation was a bit late | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:12:06] <rZr> hi sorry i am late in | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:12:07] <Fellfrosch> That'S quite strange. Download it from here: https://tr8mrau8cqbpffws.myfritz.net/s/WwTQ7XcLTa7GeJ5 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:12:32] <juiceme> it has been a while since we held the last General Meeting, and about a high time to do so | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:12:45] <rZr> I will mostly listen because my involvment in maemo faded away over years | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:13:10] <rZr> i still remember those good times of council | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:14:29] <juiceme> this meeting was called on last Wednesday, 02.02.2022 even though the actual agenda was presented later but I am assured the meeting was thus announced a full week and one day prior to the meeting | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:15:22] <juiceme> on the rules of the association, a 1/3 of the members must be present to have quorum. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:15:34] <reinob> we can note for the record that all members had been informed *and* most even attended.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:15:55] <juiceme> I would like to do call of names now. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:15:56] <Oksanaa> juiceme: Same could be said about a Coding Competition ;-) But perhaps, that's for later, when Maemo 7 Leste reaches beta state? Glad Photo Competition is alive :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:15] <juiceme> Please members, state your names for the IRC record | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:25] <sicelo> sicelo \o | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:31] * rZr phil coval _o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:42] <reinob> Bernardo Reino | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:43] <eLtMosen> mosen / Timo Könnecke | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:43] <halftux> halftux christian weniger \o | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:46] <Oksanaa> Wikiwide: Oksana A. Tkachenko | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:47] <macros__> Roger Rösch \o | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:47] <juiceme> juiceme, Jussi Ohenoja O/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:53] <joerg> ok, I'm back | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:16:57] <eekkelund> eekkelund: eetu kahelin | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:17:07] <Fellfrosch> Fellfrosch, Ulrich Müller | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:17:19] <sicelo> oh, legal names? :-) Sicelo Mhlongo | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:18:24] <joerg> joerg reisenweber | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:19:42] <juiceme> Thank you all, I count 12 members present. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:19:59] <joerg> hi freemangordon | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:20:05] <freemangordon> Hi there! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:20:18] <halftux> welcome | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:20:42] <juiceme> Our member list is 22 including our newest members macros and fellfrosch | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:20:44] <reinob> freemangordon \o/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:21:04] <juiceme> this means that the meeting is legal and quorum. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:21:10] <joerg> juiceme: where is that list kept and accessible? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:21:22] <Oksanaa> juiceme: I counted 11 people during name roll? Did you count sicelo twice? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:21:51] <reinob> 11 + Fellfrosch, I presume | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:21:52] <halftux> I guess himself | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:22:01] <juiceme> Names are on the maemo wiki pages, plus I have a full member list | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:22:11] <joerg> thanks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:22:28] <halftux> I am not at wiki | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:22:47] <juiceme> yes the wikipage might not be up to date | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:23:47] <reinob> oh, so it's really 11, I think. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:24:02] <Oksanaa> 1. Sicelo; 2. phil; 3. Bernardo; 4. Timo; 5. Christian; 6. Oksana; 7. Roger; 8. Jussi; 9.Eetu; 10. Ulrich; 11. Joerg | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:24:12] <Oksanaa> Sorry for any misprints | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:24:15] <juiceme> oksanaa, you are correct, it is 11 (rZr +reinob eLtMosen +halftux +Oksanaa +macros__ @juiceme eekkelund Fellfrosch +sicelo +joerg) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:24:31] <reinob> +1, I mean, not mathematically :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:24:36] <juiceme> but it is still good. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:25:13] <juiceme> allright, so lets continue hammering the points in. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:04] <joerg> I read comments about "drop MC eV" - let me state this isn't a reasonable nor the simplest or smartest option | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:09] <juiceme> We need to appoint chair and secretary for this meeting | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:27] <Oksanaa> joerg: Agree. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:38] <juiceme> joerg +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:51] <reinob> joerg: I agree, even if I think I said that myself. Just covering all bases.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:26:52] <Oksanaa> juiceme: What do chair and secretary do? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:00] <juiceme> so, any takers for the meeting chair? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:11] <juiceme> the chairman conducts the meeting. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:15] <Oksanaa> Chairman takes meeting notes? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:26] <juiceme> we only have few official poinst anyway | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:29] <joerg> secretary does | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:36] <juiceme> secretary takes notes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:43] <rZr> c'mon we're just 11 , just go on :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:44] <joerg> chairman = moderator | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:53] <rZr> for notes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:27:58] <rZr> just use a pad | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:08] <juiceme> or actually the irclog is the notes, but secretary should be someone who knows german | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:15] <joerg> I can provide full chanlog FWIW | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:43] <juiceme> we need to write up meeting minutes in english and german | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:44] <reinob> I can translate into German, with a little help of my children :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:49] <rZr> ich abe dutch gerlernt und alles vergessen | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:28:55] <rZr> ~~~ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:29:03] <reinob> ich hab nix gelernt aber auch nix vergessen :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:29:04] <eLtMosen> I'll do the notes gladly | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:29:09] <reinob> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:29:11] <joerg> so I will do the "provide irc chanlog" but no further edits | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:00] <joerg> eLtMosen: I'll send you a link for the irclog | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:17] <juiceme> so there have been more than one volunter for the secretary, any for chair? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:18] <eLtMosen> <3 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:34] * sicelo raises his hand for chairman, if no other takers. no german-foo at all though :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:50] <reinob> +1 for mosen and sicelo! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:30:54] <juiceme> OK, I second Sicelo for chairman | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:01] <halftux> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:05] <eLtMosen> Standing by as translator ;) +sicelo | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:05] <juiceme> and mosen for secretary | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:05] <macros__> +1 from me | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:19] <Oksanaa> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:20] <eekkelund> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:31:23] <Fellfrosch> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:32:13] <sicelo> Looking at agenda, seems we've just covered #1 & #2. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:32:14] <juiceme> OK, sicelo, I'll hand over to you. If you have the invitation email handy, you will now start from the point 3.) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:32:23] <juiceme> sicelo yes! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:32:31] <sicelo> so we're doing #3 now - juiceme will present the accounts | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:32:42] <juiceme> thank you, mr chairman. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:33:14] <juiceme> I have stored the account reports in web. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:33:30] <juiceme> http://www.swagman.org/juice/MCeV_treasurers_report_accounts_2021.pdf | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:33:36] <juiceme> http://www.swagman.org/juice/MCeV_treasurers_report_2021.pdf | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:33:57] <reinob> Yesterday I have audited the accounts and the report and confirmed that it all sums up just fine. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:34:04] <juiceme> please download the documents and read them, if you have not done yet so. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:34:36] <juiceme> yes, I asked for auditors, and got 4 replies | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:34:39] <sicelo> thanks reinob :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:35:19] <juiceme> reinob was generous enough to return to me a signed copy of the pdf | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:35:38] <reinob> (in case the lady in Kaiserslautern needs that too! :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:35:59] <joerg> I approve correctness of accounts | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:36:29] <halftux> For me it looks correct too. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:37:03] <macros__> I notice the banking fees are quite high at 200€ per year. How comes? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:37:39] <juiceme> to give a quick overview, we had just bank expenses and the annual server hosting fee on the debet side, and 4 donations on the debet side | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:37:55] <reinob> Deutsche Bank. But I'd expect similar fees for such legal accounts from other banks.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:07] <juiceme> business account at DB costs about 17 eur/month | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:13] <halftux> some are only half | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:21] <juiceme> Handelsbanken has 11 eur/month | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:38] <halftux> and there is one without fees Deutsch Skatbank | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:46] <Fellfrosch> macros because of the greed of the banks ;) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:47] <juiceme> DB is costly but changing tha bank is a real hassle | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:38:49] * Oksanaa nods - I see 47.7 BusinessPlus account fee every three months | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:39:21] <juiceme> to get that one established required a crazy amount of red tape | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:39:29] <juiceme> I would not like to do it again | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:39:52] <macros__> ok so postpone that to a date when we do not have more urgent issues at hand | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:39:55] <juiceme> however it might be that things could be easier with other banks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:12] <juiceme> macros +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:18] <joerg> I guess a BusinessPlus account is needed to have multiple authorized owners of the account | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:25] <juiceme> yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:30] <reinob> for the next meeting if anyone can suggest a bank *and* how to deal with the change.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:51] <juiceme> and they charge for all those nice things tey could provide that we don't use :( | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:40:52] <joerg> ohnoes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:41:20] <joerg> please avoid changing stuff by all means | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:41:34] <juiceme> but in any case our financial status is quite stable | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:41:47] <Fellfrosch> can postpone that discussion as suggested. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:41:55] <joerg> please do | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:41:55] * Oksanaa nods | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:42:26] <joerg> I seen the fees yesterday and postponed comments to ... $nexttimeImBored | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:42:34] <juiceme> we have some reserves to arrange some event or competition if we'd like to, and I am sure we will be able to get donations to balance | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:42:56] <eLtMosen> Checked and approve! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:06] <juiceme> so there, mr chairman. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:16] <sicelo> thanks juiceme for preparing and presenting the financial report, and reinob for auditing. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:20] <joerg> could we just officially approve accounts already? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:24] <juiceme> Any quuestions about the accounts? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:30] <joerg> no | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:36] <juiceme> thanks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:43:42] <sicelo> no questions from me either. i approve :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:05] <sicelo> means we can move on to #4 - election of new board of directors | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:14] * Oksanaa nods | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:23] <joerg> I think we should _not_ do that right now | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:36] <Oksanaa> :? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:45] <juiceme> joerg, are you sure? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:44:46] <joerg> unless juiceme insists | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:45:08] <juiceme> well as you stated earlier, falk is MIA | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:01] <reinob> juiceme: the thing is, we're not sure if electing a new board now would make things more complicated than they are. if we can defer that and keep you as sole board member, we can avoid having to pay the fine, keep the eV alive and *then* prepare a further assembly where we elect the board members. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:16] <sicelo> i guess our legal situation is a bit precarious, yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:34] <juiceme> would that be acceptable to AG Kaiserlautern? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:36] * Oksanaa doesn't speak legalese. So whatever works. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:42] <sicelo> joerg: i think you offered to check for us tomorrow or monday? or that's about something else? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:52] <juiceme> I also am not sure about german legalese? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:52] <reinob> assuming that the magistrat is OK with that. Otherwise we'd have to prepare the next assembly as soon as the bylaws allow.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:46:56] <joerg> juiceme: I'm pretty sure it would | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:47:27] <Oksanaa> reinob: Would probably take a week, at least - to issue proper meeting notice? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:47:29] <joerg> sicelo: yes, I will try to reach the lady at AG Kaiserslautern until Tuesday and come back with results | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:47:44] <reinob> we could maybe "simulate" the election, so we know if there are candidates, and if yes, how many.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:48:10] <joerg> Oksanaa: yep | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:09] <reinob> "Die aktive Mitgliederversammlung ist einmal jährlich vom Vorstandsrat unter Einhaltung einer Einladungsfrist von vier Wochen durch schriftliche bzw. elektronische Bekanntgabe auf maemo.org und per email unter Angabe der Tagesordnung einzuberufen und wird durch diesen oder einen Vertreter geleitet. Anträge zur Hauptversammlung sind spätestens eine Woche vorher beim Vorstandsrat einzureichen." | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:20] <reinob> so 4 weeks in advance, in writing. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:29] <sicelo> so seems there are currently three options on the table: 1. wait and hear from joerg, | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:35] <sicelo> 2. simulate | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:36] <reinob> (for a proper bullet-proof general assembly) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:45] <sicelo> 3. elect right away :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:48] <joerg> we could ask right now who's willing to accept board duty (and don't underestimate that duty, ask juiceme) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:53] <macros__> Is it possible to see the correspondence from the AG Kaiserslautern so I get a better idea of their demands? (parts of it which contain no sensitive information) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:49:55] <reinob> [1] + [2] can go together | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:50:51] <Oksanaa> macros__: Good point. I have already forgotten what was the possible fine about. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:51:48] <joerg> I'm not sure if it's the right thing to publish the email without allowance from all participants in that dialog. However I would suggest any of those participants provides a pastebin URL private to those interested | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:51:49] <rZr> brb | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:52:21] <reinob> I could paste here what Juice forwarded. AFAICT there's nothing private/personal. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:52:38] <halftux> I am fine | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:52:53] <joerg> up to you, I pondered it and decided I leave it to those who were writing there | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:53:26] <joerg> for any parts I added, feel free to "publish" them | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:53:46] <reinob> I mean only the letter from Kaiserslautern, the "als Vorstandsmitglied des Vereins „Maemo Community e.V.“ werden Sie hiermit" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:53:49] <reinob> unter Androhung eines Zwangsgeldes von 600,- EUR | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:53:51] <reinob> gemäß §§ 67, 71, 77 und 78 BGB sowie den §§ 388 ff FamFG aufgeforder | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:54:12] <reinob> shit, sorry, bad pasting due to the quotes.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:54:28] <sicelo> :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:54:58] <reinob> hopefully it worked: https://pastebin.com/iQubU5e1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:55:59] <macros__> Thank you | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:13] <reinob> here a translation (thanks, deepl! :) https://pastebin.com/MzvZgbnM | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:14] <sicelo> which route are we taking regarding the current point - election of board? seems most are in favor of waiting, but shall we see if there are any interested takers? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:24] <juiceme> reinob thanks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:25] <halftux> and we will do a veto | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:43] <juiceme> I would like to do a test voting | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:45] <reinob> a veto or a vote? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:56:45] <halftux> must be in a written form maybe after calling them | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:57:04] <halftux> a veto for the fine | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:57:08] <juiceme> or at least a call on the roles, to see interest | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:57:57] <juiceme> so how about it? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:57:59] <Fellfrosch> a veto often means to pay a handling charge | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:58:11] <sicelo> okay. so we need 3 or more board members, taken from active members :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:58:18] <sicelo> juiceme: +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:58:18] <Oksanaa> Sounds like trouble > The notification must be made together with another member of the Board of Management < As for Chairman and Deputy Chairman, secretary=Deputy Chairman, right? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:59:31] <reinob> I'd suggest: 1. we do a call for interest (aka "simulated election"). 2. Jörg contacts Kaiserslautern and tries to clear things up. If [2] fails we make the veto/appeal and prepare a new meeting as fast as possible to elect new board. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 20:59:48] <Oksanaa> And what is that about resignation of previous Chairman and Deputy Chairman? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:00:00] <joerg> halftux: please don't | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:00:31] <juiceme> reinob +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:00:59] <joerg> there's no reasonable argument to veto that fine, instead of simply providing a solution satisfying the AG KL | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:01:18] <juiceme> in any case if we here decice the nominees for the board positions, it is easier to conduct the meeting next time | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:01:20] <sicelo> ok. i don't see/hear any objections to reinob's suggestion. i would say let's do it right now | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:02:05] <Oksanaa> What is the current legal state/membership of Board of Management? > The notification must be made together with another member of the Board of Management < | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:02:06] <juiceme> sicelo, thank you | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:02:11] <reinob> it's the timing. they gave us a deadline of 4 weeks, so we have less than 3 weeks left. and a proper GA requires at least 4 weeks advance. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:02:18] <sicelo> then we can discuss any further issues arising from the letter in the AOB section. I'm afraid our meeting will end up without direction :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:02:51] * joerg asks for formally determining current state of board: Juiceme is only member after $whoever left for $whatever reasons - check if any proof for those quits can be provided to AG KL | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:03:14] <Oksanaa> +1 joerg: Proof would be nice | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:03:20] <juiceme> tecnically there are 2 board members present, me and joerg. the thing is that I am the only one registered | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:03:38] <joerg> I don't consider myself a board member anymore | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:03:55] <sicelo> perhaps we can ask those ex-board members to assist with this. even though they left, perhaps they might be willing to facilitate this part (assuming it's possible to contact them somehow) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:04:16] <sicelo> i.e. assist with putting their resignation in writing in a formal way | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:04:24] <juiceme> we have not been able to reach them :( | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:04:50] <joerg> you might think of my satate as "I resigned a 2 years ago, with accepting to fulfil some duties until the situation gets sorted" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:05:10] <joerg> or what sicelo just wrote# | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:05:37] <reinob> AFAIK we have *on record* Schiller (chemist), Griese (Win7Mac) and Jussi (juiceme). Griese is dead and Schiller "has left the board" (in the court's own words). | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:06:07] <Oksanaa> reinob: Griese is dead. Anything like death certificate available? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:06:12] <joerg> so could we simply approvwe that as the current state of situation? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:06:29] <juiceme> low, welcome | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:06:56] <reinob> Yes. They then asked to confirm "Newly entered Falk Stern and Jörg Reisenweber" which we simply can ignore, as this does not reflect the current intention anymore. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:00] <low_> hi good evening. sorry for being late | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:02] <reinob> (AFAICT anyway) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:13] <joerg> YES!!! :-() | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:17] <joerg> :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:31] <macros__> To communicate the current state two board members have to be present, as the "Articles of Association (Bylaws) / Satzung" says | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:36] <halftux> it would be interesting to know who gave them the information we can say it was wrong information | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:07:52] <halftux> no new board since then | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:08:10] <reinob> halftux: right. It's not on record, and they are the record-people, so there's no place for speculation! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:08:44] <juiceme> can we challenge them on that basis? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:08:50] <Fellfrosch> Looks like there was a lot of trouble in the past. And a lot of things have been just missed (Win7Mac has died long time ago as I remember correctly). | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:09:06] <sicelo> i'm skeptical about that one - i think we're also not in a position strong enough to do it that way ... but yes, ianal. i like joerg's approach myself | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:09:43] <low_> we should not go for confrontation when there is nothing to win from it. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:09:54] <sicelo> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:10:04] <low_> also information they have will not go away, no matter where it came from | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:10:05] <halftux> yes first action is to call and talk and see | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:10:33] <joerg> according to letter from AG KL, a protocol of this very meeting accepting the common knowledge about "council consists of one member: juiceme . Two have left" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:11:09] <Oksanaa> Re > Yes. They then asked to confirm "Newly entered Falk Stern and Jörg Reisenweber" which we simply can ignore, as this does not reflect the current intention anymore. < So we have to find chemist (to either get resignation, or to help out juiceme), and confirm either joerg as board member (to help juiceme) or Falk Stern as board member? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:11:11] <reinob> absolutely. A phone call explaining the situation, and our interpretation of the bylaws according to which Juice is the one and only board member, and rightly so (chapter 7-6) should be OK for them. They cannot have anything against it. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:11:23] <eLtMosen> Ok, afaiu, according to our statutes we are incapacitated. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:03] <eLtMosen> In that case we can elect a Emergency Board | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:11] <reinob> "Diese Veränderung in der Vorstandschaft ist durch den neuen Vorstand in | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:11] <reinob> deutscher Sprache in öffentlich beglaubigter Form zum Vereinsregister | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:12] <macros__> Yes $7 (6) of the bylaws is the solution. This allows juiceme as member of the board to appoint any member as second member of the board intermediately. And they can then fullful the demands. (give an update on the current state) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:24] <joerg> to my knowledge there is no bylaws statement that mandates at least 2 board members | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:30] <reinob> anzumelden." we don't need chemist for that, only the new board, and that's Jussi alone. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:45] <low_> chemist is my brother, if you need anything you can ask me i can be a proxy if you need. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:53] <macros__> §7 (3) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:12:58] <eLtMosen> If the association is unable to act because it does not have enough board members who are authorized to represent the association externally in accordance with Section 26 of the German Civil Code (BGB). This can happen if one or more board members can no longer perform their duties due to death, incapacity, removal, resignation, expiry of office, illness or prolonged absence. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:13:02] <macros__> (3) Der Vorstand wählt aus seiner Mitte einen Vorsitzenden und zwei Stellvertreter. Hiervon sind jeweils zwei gemeinsam zur Vertretung des Vereins berechtigt. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:13:03] <sicelo> low_: wow! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:13:19] <reinob> low_: that is interesting! I don't think I know you :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:15:14] <joerg> I think eLtMosen is up to sth | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:15:15] <Oksanaa> low_ : If legalities can be satisfied that chemist gives you permission to act in his place... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:15:50] <Oksanaa> Then low_ could help juiceme in place of second Board Member? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:16:01] <juiceme> low, are you in contact with Rudiger? Last I know he was somewhere far south from europe...? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:16:17] <joerg> Oksanaa: please, this isn't needed right now | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:17:02] <reinob> or if chemist could, via low_, send juiceme a kind of formal "resignation letter", then what eLtMosen says could apply, as we'd have a death and a resignation, both formal and documented. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:17:32] <Oksanaa> Rally? https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57859 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:17:33] <joerg> sounds good | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:17:59] <juiceme> I would like to get a volunteer for emergency board membership | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:02] <joerg> Oksanaa: could you please provide a summary? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:27] <reinob> juiceme: I'm in, if needed. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:39] <sicelo> ty reinob :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:44] <joerg> we're in a meeting, not going to read tmo posts, or this will take much longer than anybody can attend | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:50] <eLtMosen> So, this is very much for my brain... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:51] <eLtMosen> https://www.vereinswelt.de/notvorstand-2 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:18:54] <Oksanaa> joerg: chemist signed up for the rally as Team Muenchau-Schiller, Rallye München-Barcelona - Dein Roadtrip durch Europa. 23.07. – 30.07.2022 I München – Barcelona – Andalusien 24.09. – 01.10.2022 I München – Barcelona? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:19:15] <low_> lol no. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:19:27] <juiceme> reinob, thanks for help! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:20:26] <low_> either way. chemist is gone for the better part of three years now. when was the last GA? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:20:47] <sicelo> anyone else that would be able to step up for emergency board? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:20:48] <juiceme> so if we decide to go that way that an emergency Board member is needed, then I will appint reinob | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:06] <joerg> too long ago. And this very one will also pass without anything getting done if we don't focus on the tasks at hand | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:16] <juiceme> unless there are other candidates...? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:32] <halftux> I would also do it. But reinob is fine | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:37] <sicelo> or the two will be enough (juice & reinob). sounds fine too. i see the letter mentions two can represent the association | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:41] <sicelo> joerg: +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:21:53] <joerg> sicelo: as I said above, I'm willing to help until stuff got sorted. Then I'm out | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:22:12] <eLtMosen> It seems we need to establish formaly that we are currently incapacitated. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:22:31] <joerg> why? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:22:36] <sicelo> okay, thanks. so it seems we have the possibility of a full board (3+ candidates) to move things along in the interim | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:22:46] <eLtMosen> In case of emergency borad establishment | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:03] <sicelo> eLtMosen: what does that involve/require? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:17] <joerg> I asked for formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:22] <reinob> Should we first clarify that the next action is Jörg very kind offer to contact the Amtsgericht. AND WE TAKE IT FROM THERE? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:27] <joerg> what about that, did that get rejected? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:47] <Oksanaa> low_: Sorry. Post was from 2010 (didn't see it at first), so apparently it is old news and not relevant to current chemist's absence... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:23:52] <sicelo> i understand joerg's offer is accepted and happening :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:24:20] <reinob> joerg: +1 we can at least establish that the board is, currently, Juice alone. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:24:29] <halftux> me too first calling then we see | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:24:33] <eLtMosen> The first step is then to check whether the association is still capable of acting. That is, whether the remaining (residual) executive board is still capable of executing legal transactions. You can determine this with a quick look at the articles of association. There, it is mandatory to determine how and by whom the association is legally represented and who has the power of representation. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:24:59] <eLtMosen> So, we alreay established by finding out :D | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:25:30] <joerg> eLtMosen: what is the desired result? the issue at hand that gets solved this way? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:25:53] <Oksanaa> The board is currently juiceme alone because one person is dead and another person is absent. Proofs for both of that would be nice. reinob could be elected today as second board member if required/possible, to support juiceme? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:00] <joerg> there are no urgent legal transactions pending | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:09] <low_> so i just talked to chemist and he said that in the last GA joerg, juiceme and "the guy from Hamburg" were elected board members, but that never was officially filed to the court | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:18] <low_> Falk Stern? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:23] <joerg> the only thing very urgently pending is to sort the issue with AG KL | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:41] <reinob> low_: yup must have been Falk Stern | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:58] <Oksanaa> Does sorting the issue with AG KL require two board members? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:26:58] <juiceme> yes falk aka warfare was the third one | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:27:05] <joerg> Oksanaa: no | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:27:22] <sicelo> i think we're nearing the end of #4. in summary, we opted to not proceed with election yet, pending joerg's communication with them in next day or so. we have reinob and halftux as potential emergency candidates. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:27:39] <joerg> again. I asked for formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme - what about that? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:27:42] <reinob> sicelo: sounds like a plan! :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:27:43] <Oksanaa> What about > If the association is unable to act because it does not have enough board members who are authorized to represent the association externally in accordance with Section 26 of the German Civil Code (BGB). < ? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:28:23] <reinob> we don't need to "act" for now, we're just in low-power/maintenance mode for all I care | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:28:45] <juiceme> sicelo, as the chairman, state for the record what joerg just said: "formal decision to establish that current board consists of only juiceme" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:28:54] <halftux> So joerg you would like to change that maemo eV has only one board member? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:02] <halftux> for the future | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:19] <sicelo> ah, that's what he meant? :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:21] <juiceme> we cannot "change" that as it is in the rules | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:22] <joerg> I'm not going to tell the lady of AG KL >>sorry, we decided to opt for eventually establishing an emergency board<< | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:55] <reinob> Nope, but say "the board has currently just one member", until further notice. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:29:56] <juiceme> joerg, do you need more than that statement? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:04] <joerg> no | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:21] <juiceme> good | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:27] <sicelo> okay. anyone objecting? i don't (in fact i fully agree) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:32] <Oksanaa> joerg: Entirely possible to formally establish that current board consists of only juiceme. Just get proofs about one death and one absence/resignation (Rudiger Schiller). And perhaps, proofs about absence of Falk Stern and Joerg-not-being-member-of-board. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:48] <low_> from last GA invitation: Secondly; As it happens Chemist (Rüdiger Schiller) who has been Chairman | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:48] <low_> of Board for the past years has decided to step down. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:48] <low_> This means that we need to appoint a new board member in the meeting. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:48] <low_> (and of course it is in the decision of GA to appoint/fire the members of | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:48] <low_> the board anyway, so board membership is always a subject of vote in GA | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:49] <low_> meeting) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:52] <eLtMosen> Joerg is right, the measures i cited would be needed if 1st chairman is missing. According to he linked article we can just fill the missing positions regulary. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:58] <Oksanaa> I am just concerned about the kind of legal limbo that can happen if one board member is not enough. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:30:59] <joerg> maybe a proof of chemist that he stepped down (lower priority since it seems AG KL already knows) and a link to the decease note for win | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:31:49] <reinob> joerg: only if they ask/insist, which I don't think will be the case. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:09] <reinob> (no need to bother chemist, let alone win7mac's family) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:13] <joerg> Oksanaa: >>And perhaps, proofs about absence of Falk Stern and Joerg-not-being-member-of-board<< not needed since bnever officially reported to AG KL | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:30] <sicelo> During the meeting held on the 10th Feb 2022, the general assembly formally established that the current board of directors consists of only one member, Jussi Ohenoja | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:31] <reinob> exactly | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:35] <joerg> reinob: full ack | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:32:40] <-- Fellfrosch (~darkstar@i59F4B6EC.versanet.de) has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer). | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:33:01] <reinob> joerg: I take your ack, and give you a double ack. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:33:15] <joerg> sicelo: thanks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:33:58] <joerg> we should ehdule a next meeting already | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:34:02] <juiceme> have we handled this issue now enough? is there still something to discuss / decide? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:34:11] <sicelo> anything else to iron out in #4 (board) ? seems to have been disuccessed at length | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:34:15] <sicelo> ah :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:34:16] <juiceme> joerg +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:34:41] <sicelo> so last agenda point #5 - AOB. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:35:19] <Oksanaa> When will we hear back about AG KL being okay-or-not-okay with juiceme being the only board member, and Chairman and Deputy-Chairman-aka-secretary having been elected? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:35:23] <sicelo> the foregoing seems enough to help us with the AG KL issue? nothing else involved/urgent? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:35:34] <joerg> afk for 10 min, need a break | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:36:21] <juiceme> I think Wizzup wanted to come up and present something about Leste, but he has not been here today? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:36:35] <sicelo> Oksanaa: joerg hopes to do it tomorrow or early next week. so let's say mid-next week | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:36:44] <eLtMosen> +1 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:36:46] <sicelo> i can mention Leste | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:36:57] <juiceme> I will be iin contact with joerg about this issue | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:37:34] <reinob> ty juiceme. Keep me posted, if possible. I'm not a telephone guy (much less in German), but if needed I can also call there.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:38:01] <Oksanaa> As for AOB... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:38:02] <sicelo> so yes, Maemo Leste *needs* the eV to remain intact as much as possible. they're rebasing maemo fremantle on modern devuan | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:38:03] <juiceme> well yes irc and email work also | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:38:11] <Oksanaa> Search function doesn't work on https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:38:43] <reinob> we need also to think/prepare for the next Maemo trademark renewal (2025?) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:39:10] <sicelo> thus, dissolution ot the eV would be a blow for the Leste project. that said, it seems reasonable to 'adopt' the Leste project. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:39:16] <halftux> wizzup was also planning to make a foundation | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:39:18] <juiceme> that depends on the country, the duration varies | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:39:41] <Oksanaa> So, when is next meeting? Should Maemo trademark renewal be added to agenda for next meeting? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:39:47] <sicelo> they want to setup their own foundation, yes, but - maemo/nokia assets likely cannot be given to that association easily :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:14] <sicelo> but yes, maybe let's discuss all this in a second meeting | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:21] <halftux> ah ok | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:29] <juiceme> dissolution of eV is not good idea since we do have both intangible and tangible assets that need an owner | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:33] <reinob> right, today's topic was intense enough ;-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:50] <sicelo> at next meeting, may want/need to also look at council situation and decide a way forward | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:40:53] <sicelo> reinob: :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:41:15] <sicelo> when can we schedule the next meeting then? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:41:34] <low_> you MUST have a GA every year, and you have to file the minutes to the AG KL including changes to the board members. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:41:36] <reinob> day of invitation + 4 weeks minimum, if I still understand what I read :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:42:06] <sicelo> however, depending on the answers from AG KL, it is reasonable to expect we may have to have another urgent meeting, maybe later next week ... | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:42:50] <juiceme> if we need to have a proper GA with full board and get this functioning again then we need the 1-month announcement time | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:12] <juiceme> I'd say lets wait for what happens next week | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:13] <halftux> low_ do you can organize the latest minutes with chemist which year was it | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:19] <juiceme> and have a new meeting then | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:33] <Oksanaa> So, let's schedule next meeting as early as possible. Do I understand correctly that it has to be at least a week after notice - so at least a week after this meeting? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:47] <reinob> so regardless of potential urgent meeting (not GA), we can plan for a "proper GA" in a relaxed atmosphere :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:43:57] <sicelo> i agree with juiceme | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:44:14] <juiceme> oksanaa only if we want to have official meeting, and not something we organize things in | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:44:42] <eLtMosen> Afaiu german officials. They want us to move. The 4 (3) weeks might be extendable when we show a plan for when the GA will happen. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:45:23] <juiceme> so are we done for this meeting? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:45:34] <reinob> I'd say yep | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:45:40] <Oksanaa> Agree. Good question to ask. "Please postpone the fine, let us have a proper GA meeting first" | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:45:54] <sicelo> seems we're done yes. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:45:58] * Oksanaa nods | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:11] <juiceme> thank you, mr. chairman! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:15] <halftux> Thank you juiceme and sicelo and all others for there contributions | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:26] <low_> @halftux end of 2017 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:36] <reinob> Oksanaa: they might (should!) drop the fine after the telephone call, GA or not.. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:42] <halftux> ah ok these minutes we have | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:48] <sicelo> thanks all for the massive turn up! :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:46:49] <eLtMosen> Thanks sicelo! I will publish the minutes tomorrow noonish. | ||
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| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:02] <low_> there you will find that a new board had been elected, joerg, jussi, and falk | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:11] <reinob> Thanks guys! I didn't expect so many active members! :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:21] <juiceme> eLtMosen, feel free to ask me about the minutes if you have questions! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:40] <juiceme> thank you everybody, and have a good night! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:45] <halftux> https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=99918 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:47:58] <reinob> and thanks low_ for popping in! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:48:08] <eLtMosen> +100 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:48:18] <Oksanaa> low_: Apparently, they didn't quite accept their role as board members? Or something? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:48:38] <low_> they did. it was just never officially filed to the court. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:49:10] <Oksanaa> Accepted at the meeting where they were elected. Did they show up as board members on any next meeting? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:49:26] <sicelo> they did, unless i'm very mistaken | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:49:32] <halftux> yes the minutes were delivered see my last link | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:50:03] * Oksanaa sighs - that's why I wonder if proof of absence/resignation would be required for some more people | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:50:39] <halftux> hmm offical handed out but not proofed | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:51:12] <low_> the forums are irrelevant. it needs to be filed to court (AG KL) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:52:15] <Oksanaa> Sorry for rambling. I tend to branch off into different what-ifs, like phantom trolleys: https://xkcd.com/1938/ | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:53:05] <macros__> And are there plans for an invitation to the next GA so we can have functional board again? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:53:19] <halftux> ok thanks you all and good night looking forward what joerg can achieve, thanks joerg. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:53:40] <joerg> yw, Hope I manage to get this done | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:53:47] <low_> you will <3 | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:54:07] <joerg> seems we did _not_ agree on a soonish next meeting date? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:54:39] <halftux> I guess juiceme will inform us all. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:54:58] <joerg> macros__: we _have_ a functional board | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:55:28] <nonsuch> Good night! | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:55:31] <low_> it's maybe smart to have that scheduled already when talking to the court, so they see you mean business | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:55:40] <low_> also kind regards from chemist | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:56:12] <-- nonsuch (~koivusaar@dk47dfyyyyyyyyyyyyyyt-3.rev.dnainternet.fi) has left this server (Remote host closed the connection). | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:56:21] <sicelo> basically during the course of the next week we will know where we stand. if we need to do proper GA, then it's in 4 weeks | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:56:30] <sicelo> low_: thanks! :-) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:56:39] <joerg> does anybody need the full irclog now? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:57:12] <Oksanaa> eLtMosen ? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:57:18] <macros__> @joerg: What did I miss? We have one board member and need two to represent the e.V. according to the bylaws? Also the AG mentions this in their letter. | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:57:42] <low_> there is three board members. joerg, juiceme and falk | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:58:14] <macros__> ah ok so we have two to report the current state, perfect :) | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:58:20] <low_> yes | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:59:17] <Oksanaa> Falk is not contactable, if I heard correctly? | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:59:39] <macros__> Thats what I got too | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 21:59:58] <joerg> we have juiceme as regular board member, he decided to get help from $please-read-chanlog to accomplish anything where two board members are needed. No such thing known so far by now anyway | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 22:00:14] <joerg> all fine, don't worry | ||
| [10 Feb 2022 22:01:37] <eLtMosen> Re log, i got an export from my hexchat. Thats fine. minute are near done but i better look over them with fresh eyes tmrw |
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