libera/#maemo/ Tuesday, 2019-02-19

DocScrutinizer05sicelo: really 2G-only? I was about to suggest to trys 3G-only since 3G has way less burst currents torturing battery04:04
VajbI locked my device to 3g only, but it didn't help.05:18
Vajbdoes anyone have a solution for my backupmenu issue?05:19
Vajbwould copying all the files over ssh from device to another device achieve the same thing as normal backup?05:23
VajbI guess all the file could not be overwritten on a running system.05:26
Vajbfiles*05:26
DocScrutinizer05^^^ that05:27
DocScrutinizer05I don't see why BM doesn't install05:27
DocScrutinizer05get a clean PR1.3 or 4 flash of rootfs, then fix the repos, then one-click install BM05:28
DocScrutinizer05Vajb: please copy (or take a picture) the detailed error messages of HAM05:31
DocScrutinizer05and provide them05:31
VajbDocScrutinizer05: backupmenu installs and my phone boots in the boot menu provided. I can chhose to boot to maemo kernel, bootmenu or power off. If I choose bootmenu, my phone tries to load something and reboots.05:51
Vajbif I try with my other phone it shows what it loads and backupmenu works as expected. While other phone just shows booting () and staring (). It is like it doesn't have info where to boot and what05:53
siceloDocScrutinizer05: the problem is only on 3G, sadly. on 2G, it's rock stable - it has been connected for almost 2 days now07:21
KotCzarnyinterestingly i have my network set to 3g too07:31
KotCzarnymaybe i should try 2g07:31
Maxdamantusfwiw, my connection normally goes away on 3G, but my operator doesn't have 2G anymore.07:35
KotCzarnycould it be some 3g feature that bugs the modem?07:35
Maxdamantusgoes away as in after 10 seconds or so of not sending things over the network, something seems to disconnect, so it won't be able to send things after that.07:35
Maxdamantusbut other cellular activity consistently wakes it back up.07:36
MaxdamantusI sometimes send an SMS to myself to wake it up again.07:36
Maxdamantusor if I'm reading through some stuff on IRC, I'll normally hold backspace to make sure I'm constantly sending something.07:37
Maxdamantusor I'll just start pinging 8.8.8.8 in another window, but I try to avoid that since I sometimes forget until it's wasted a bunch of battery energy pinging.07:37
Maxdamantusit seems to also correlate with the "3.5" icon.07:38
Maxdamantusin general, 3.5 = internet works, 3 = internet is stuck07:38
KotCzarnyi very rarely use data connectivity, so must be something else07:38
KotCzarnysome 'bad packet/command -> modem hung'07:39
KotCzarnyor just power surge as doc suggests07:39
KotCzarnygonna stay on 2g for a week and see if i get any hung cellular07:39
KotCzarnyfunny as it is im on 2.5g even without data enabled07:40
Vajbnever seen 2.5g07:47
KotCzarny2.5g is edge07:48
KotCzarny2g is gprs07:48
KotCzarnyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Evolution07:48
KotCzarnyerm or not07:48
siceloMaxdamantus: as you may remember, i used to have that too, but it has gotten a bit better now. it's still there, but no longer as bad. tbh - it quite obvious the operator must share part of the blame, if not the most07:49
Maxdamantussicelo: hm, but it only seems to affect network.07:50
Maxdamantussicelo: any anything else will wake something up so that the network actually works.07:50
siceloit is not power surge afaict - even when connected to charger it's there. plus, same battery setup has zero issues with the other operator07:50
siceloMaxdamantus: yes.07:50
Maxdamantussicelo: so my presumption is that there's some sort of ping or something missing from maemo to make sure that the modem is usable when you happen to be using the network.07:51
KotCzarnyi wonder if old battery could affect it even on charger07:51
siceloMaxdamantus: exactly that. i wonder what you will find if you were to try a different operator :)07:51
siceloKotCzarny: and how does that premise explain the fact tha there are zero problems on 3G with the other operator?07:52
KotCzarnydifferent part of modem pressed by battery bulge?07:53
sicelowhen on different operator? :)07:53
KotCzarnybut it could be a compund effect07:53
KotCzarnywe all could observe different bugs combo07:54
sicelofwiw, no bulge on battery - in fact, it is not old. bme-replacement sees 1293mAh07:54
KotCzarnymine sees ~1230, yet its not as flat as new07:54
siceloright07:55
Maxdamantussicelo: something that I think would be useful to try would be just using ofono instead of csd.07:58
siceloyes, that's an idea. i don't know to to do that one fremantle though. i've wanted to setup uboot on this device to check ofono on Leste. i should do that sometime. it's just - other operator works well, so i just switched ... it's only in the last week that i used the 'troublesome' one again, but will switch back today (when my data package is depleted)08:01
Maxdamantusalso, when this happens to me, I get these messages: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/a5c4ecb48dc5d61665b5c09b042db89208:01
MaxdamantusFeb 19 19:52:32 orcus daemon.notice cellular: csd[858]: ISI_SMS .126047> ind_reg_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:008:01
MaxdamantusFeb 19 19:52:32 orcus daemon.notice cellular: csd[858]: ISI_SMS .126352> set_timeout(): Timeout 3547 s event type:-108:01
Maxdamantusthen the messages after that are me sending an SMS to myself.08:01
Maxdamantusand when I did that, the pings started working.08:02
siceloi get those too08:02
MaxdamantusWonder if there's some sort of cellular ping functionality that I can make csd perform.08:02
Maxdamantusbecause if sending an SMS wakes it up, surely there'll be other things the modem can do to wake it up.08:03
KotCzarnymaxd, ping -s8 8.8.8.8 ;)08:04
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: yes, that would obviously help, but it also wastes the battery.08:04
siceloMaxdamantus: although you should find that those messages are always there, even if your connection was working fine08:05
KotCzarnymaxd: but sending sms switches modem from data to gsm mode08:05
KotCzarnythat could be a hint?08:05
KotCzarnyand switching back to data relogins modem on network?08:06
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: maybe.08:06
Maxdamantussicelo: gonna leave it pinging for a while and will see if I get those messages still.08:09
ontimeso maybe switch it to 2g by: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.set_selected_radio_access_technology byte:109:01
ontimeand to 3g by: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.net /com/nokia/phone/net Phone.Net.set_selected_radio_access_technology byte:209:02
MaxdamantusBeen pinging for almost 2 hours, only message from csd is "isiclient_sms_timeout(): Request TIMEOUT" (occurred once)10:04
Maxdamantusand shortly after stopping, I get those other messages again.10:05
Maxdamantusfirst one being "ind_req_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:0"10:06
Maxdamantuss/req/reg/10:07
infobotMaxdamantus meant: first one being "ind_reg_status(): Net registration (ind) status:1 rc:0"10:07
KotCzarnymight be tower breaking some standard10:07
KotCzarnyand dropping idle clients forcibly10:08
MaxdamantusSo what do other phones do about it?10:08
sicelothey are always active :)10:09
siceloandroid phones are really noisy on the net. they almost never 'rest'10:09
siceloso they never have a problem10:10
siceloit's just that my usb ports are all dead, i would test with a 3G modem on my laptop - i won't be surprised if i get same problem10:11
siceloi will test on my BBB or CHIP10:12
KotCzarnymaxd: running ping keeps time slots allocated for your device10:16
KotCzarnythat's why it appears to work10:16
siceloi recall i did experience it with a modem in the earlier days, but, to be fair, the modem itself seems to be rubbish. i can get a better huawei/zte10:16
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: but I can claim one of these slots immediately by getting the modem to reconnect?10:17
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: great, that's what I suspect it should be doing anyvay.10:17
siceloyes,10:17
KotCzarnymaxd, but it would deactivate after an idle period (1-2s)10:17
KotCzarnyor some more10:17
MaxdamantusIt normally takes around 10 seconds.10:18
MaxdamantusI could probably get a precise timing.10:18
MaxdamantusWill see what csd looks like in strace soon.10:20
Maxdamantusunrelated: does anyone know how to refer to individual phone plugs of the sort that you'd likely find in commercial cables?11:21
KotCzarnyrj11 ?11:21
MaxdamantusSo not the ones with the large tabs for soldering onto and the male thread for a cover.11:22
MaxdamantusNo, phone plug.11:22
KotCzarnywhat's a phone plug then11:22
MaxdamantusLike what goes into the audio jack on an N90011:22
Maxdamantusbut just TRS or TS, not TRRS11:23
KotCzarnymini-jack and cinch ?11:23
KotCzarny3.5" mini-jack ?11:23
Maxdamantus2.5mm phone plug .. that's what the plug itself is called.11:23
KotCzarnyyou mean the one used on nokia n-gage11:23
KotCzarny:)11:23
Maxdamantusbut whenever you buy such plugs from an electronics shop, you get them with a male thread and large tabs11:23
MaxdamantusI just mean normal audio plugs.11:24
Maxdamantusthe ones on the end of headphones11:24
Maxdamantusjust wondering about where to get ones where the part you solder the wires onto is lower-profile.11:25
Maxdamantuswhich is what you get if you just break apart some commercial cable, but that seems like a waste11:25
Maxdamantusand I'd quite like some 1.5mm mono plugs where I can make a low-profile wire attachment.11:26
Enrico_MenottiMaxdamantus The best plugs you may find around are manufactured by Switchcraft.11:34
Enrico_Menottihttp://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=311:37
Enrico_Menottihttp://www.switchcraft.com/Drawings/35hd_series_cd.pdf11:38
Enrico_MenottiProbably those are not "Low profile" as you mean.11:39
MaxdamantusEnrico_Menotti: I intend to just put epoxy over the solder joints, so don't need an entire case thing.11:48
Maxdamantus(and the case thing is why there's a thread on it wasting space)11:49
KotCzarnyim sad most producers stick to standards11:49
KotCzarnywhich tell how much space to leave etc11:49
KotCzarnyprohibiting really low-profile plugs11:49
MaxdamantusHere's what I mean by low-profile: https://maxdamantus.eu.org/lppp.jpg11:53
Maxdamantusthe one on the left is just taken from a commercial plug (they're usually encased in some sort of plastic), while the one on the right is what you'd get from an electronics shop (with a screw-on case above)11:53
Maxdamantus(I've also encased the one on the left in epoxy)11:54
Maxdamantusbut the plug on the left seems to be pretty much the same in all commercial cables.11:54
Maxdamantuswhere you see the three conductors as shells of different diameter, with a single piece of plastic (black) separating them.11:55
Maxdamantusand some holes in the plastic for access to the conductors11:56
Maxdamantusnote: that's a 2.5mm plug, so the sort that fits into an N90011:57
MaxdamantusThe sort on the left seems a lot better-quality than the one on the right, possibly because the sleeve and the part to the top of it are just the same piece of metal.11:59
Enrico_MenottiMaxdamantus https://www.mouser.it/datasheet/2/670/sp-2533-01-1374779.pdf12:00
AnaskoGSM/UMTS antenna on my N900 is worn - not black, but with a patch of yellow and green. Does it decrease quality of 3G signal for me, in Australia? Or does N900 have another 3G antenna hidden away somewhere?12:00
Maxdamantusthe one on the right has the thread and the sleeve being two different pieces of metal, and in my experience, you can often just rotate them such that you lose conductance between at least one of the tabs, before even applying any heat.12:01
AnaskoGSM is 2G, and 2G isn't available in Australia. UMTS is a subspecies of 3G. Question is, does 3G in Australia on Nokia N900 work on UMTS, or on something else, with some other internal antenna?12:02
MaxdamantusEnrico_Menotti: thanks, I think that might have helped.12:03
Enrico_MenottiMaxdamantus Is that one what you're looking for?12:05
Enrico_Menotti(More or less?)12:05
MaxdamantusEnrico_Menotti: pretty much. I was at least able to use the part number to find a site that sells those sorts of plugs.12:05
Maxdamantushttps://www.digikey.co.nz/products/en/connectors-interconnects/barrel-audio-connectors/434?pkeyword=&sv=0&pv29=1&pv575=6&pv1954=12&sf=0&FV=ffe001b2&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=2512:05
Enrico_MenottiMaxdamantus Mouser sells them as well. The link I provided is for the data sheet on Mouser, but I passed through the page for buying.12:09
MaxdamantusProbably better to just buy them from a local store like above.12:10
Maxdamantussince they already supposedly have thousands in stock, so they're not wasting money shipping something like 10 at a time.12:10
Maxdamantus(NZ is quite far from the rest of the world)12:10
KotCzarnyhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vention-Aux-Cable-3-5mm-Jack-To-Jack-90-Degree-Right-Angle-Flat-Aux-Cord-For/32828129070.html12:11
KotCzarnythis one seems quite low12:11
Enrico_MenottiI usually buy electronics from Mouser, in my opinion it's got the greatest choice. Also quite cheap (the cheapest probably). You only should buy at least some 50 dollars in order to get free delivery.12:11
Enrico_MenottiHere in Italy, when I can't spend at least 50 euros, I buy from RS online, whose shipping fees are the lowest for tiny purchases.12:12
MaxdamantusI don't really need a huge amount .. just gradually trying to reach my goal of having the ultimate earphone cable.12:12
KotCzarnyhttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/RAXFLY-3-5mm-AUX-Cable-For-Car-Gold-Plated-90-Degree-Right-Angle-Flat-Jack-For/32839427330.html12:13
KotCzarnythis one seem a 1mm smaller12:13
KotCzarnywith a bonus of flat cable12:13
Enrico_MenottiHonestly, I don't think any store has this kind of plugs in stock. These plugs are very specialized, it seems to me, so you can only find them from big sellers.12:13
KotCzarnyalthough both are 3.5"12:14
KotCzarnyhrm12:14
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: I don't like the idea of having that cable attached pretty much directly to an apparently rigid piece of plastic/metal.12:14
KotCzarnymaxd: why? you would be stressing soldered part otherwise12:15
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: in my design above the solder joints are not stressed, since it's all under epoxy.12:15
MaxdamantusKotCzarny: and there's heatshrink around the cable where it joins into the epoxy.12:16
Maxdamantus(the epoxy adheres a lot better to heatshrink than to the cable)12:16
KotCzarnymy guess, best bet would be cannibalizing and modding regular plug12:17
KotCzarnyby cutting it short12:17
MaxdamantusYeah, that's what I've done.12:19
Maxdamantusand as for "why?", I'm pretty sure the fault is never with the solder joint.12:22
Maxdamantusthe solder joints are usually encased in plastic anyway, similar to how they're encased in epoxy on my one.12:23
Maxdamantusit's a matter of not having the cable directly up against a rigid piece of plastic.12:23
Maxdamantusthat's why the screw-on case in my picture has a flexible bit at the end where the cable comes out, and why the metal versions often have springs there.12:24
Maxdamantusif the cable is directly up against something rigid, you'll end up bending the cable at sharp angles there, so you instead have some spring, or bit of bendy plastic, or heatshrink so that it tends to curve instead.12:25
Maxdamantusalso, don't like the exposed metal cases, since it provides a path to ground if I touch the case.12:27
Maxdamantus(assuming I'm grounded)12:27
MaxdamantusThat's definitely noticable using my earphones.12:27
Maxdamantus(and assuming I'm using them on my computer, rather than my phone, which is normally isolated from ground anyway when in use)12:29
DocScrutinizer05>>but it would deactivate after an idle period<< yes, that's one of the reasons why 3G is power greedy. A single byte out *or in* keeps TX active for a BTS-defined period of several seconds14:24
DocScrutinizer05>><sicelo> KotCzarny: and how does that premise explain the fact tha there are zero problems on 3G with the other operator?<<  different operator = different BTS location, signal strength, TX power level; different freq/band; different implementation of the eadio stack firmware14:36
sunshavisicelo: do you have deb package for telegram on n900?22:03
sicelothere is on tmo22:04
sicelohttps://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1522324&postcount=19622:09
siceloi don't see the file though :-?22:09
sicelohttps://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1501151&postcount=17922:09
siceloi have the tar.gz for 1.3.3 .. let me know where i can save it for you22:12
sunshavii am reading about it.22:15
sunshavihttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11747350/TelegramN900.tar.gz22:17
sunshavii have a dumb thinking22:24
sunshavisailfish have a layer or emulator for running apk's22:25
sunshaviperhaps that layer could be ported to n900? or perhaps the processor is too weak for it22:25
sunshavithat way we could have a proper telegram app :)22:26

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