libera/#maemo/ Thursday, 2019-07-18

FatPhilUg, g/f was right - CSSU upgrade no longer works09:44
bencohhmm, do you mean installing cssu does not work?09:45
bencoh(like, stock -> cssu ?)09:45
FatPhilfreshly flashed 1.3 -> cssu testing09:45
bencohwhat does it say?09:45
FatPhilYOu must make a backup. I make a backup. YOU MUST MAKE A BACKUP!!!!! Erm????09:46
bencohwtf :D09:46
bencohcan't you skip the backup thing? I don't remember doing one at the time09:47
FatPhiltechnically, i didn't use PC suite, as recommended because I don't have PC suite.09:47
bencohmaking*09:47
KotCzarny~bm09:47
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install09:47
bencoh~admins09:47
bencoh~admin09:47
KotCzarnyi think the n900's backup is meant to be done via backup-menu09:47
FatPhilThis was a freshly flashed device, I didn't see the need to do backup menu step. I can go back tho'09:48
bencohxes: hey there! looks like the letsencrypt certificates are expired and were not renewed09:48
KotCzarnythen maybe you can skip that part09:48
FatPhilSkipping the installation of backupmenu is easy. Skipping "Maemo update : TO update your device ... you must use Nokia PC Suite ... [create backup]" is non-skippable09:49
bencohhmm09:50
FatPhilLAst time I upgraded to CSSU on the old phone was about 5 years ago, and it did work then, so somethings got broke between then and about 2 years ago09:50
KotCzarnymaybe your problem is something else?09:51
FatPhil(when g/f attempted and failed with this error to upgrade hers)09:51
KotCzarnyfor example some repo missing09:51
KotCzarnyand backup is the only thing you see on the gui side09:51
FatPhilI installed these two: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/muarf_all.install09:52
FatPhilThe other repo links are dead here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#Mirrors_of_standard_Nokia_repos_.28using_Application_manager.2909:52
KotCzarnyuhum09:52
FatPhilCan I do the upgrade without GUI tools - just from a root shell?09:53
FatPhilI'll try the backupmenu install, and see if that shuts up the warning loop, but I think it won't (as g/f would have tried it)09:54
KotCzarnyif you have time and skills, most likely, but would be better to find the problem09:54
bencohtbh if the only thing you'd need to get it work is install backupmenu and run it, I'd rather go that way09:54
bencohas for changing apt repositories and install cssu meta package, it might work, unless the "installer" does some extra work09:55
FatPhilblimey, it's ages sincew I used application manager - it's terrible - worse than I remember!09:58
bencohit is, yeah09:59
KotCzarnyapt-get install for backup menu ? :>09:59
KotCzarny(not recommended, but heck)09:59
FatPhilOK, that's opened up a webpage that's blank :/09:59
bencohit was improved in cssu though (I think it landed in -testing)09:59
KotCzarnyreally, the whole dichotomy between results of app manager and apt is bad09:59
KotCzarnybencoh: i think app manager landed even in cssu10:00
bencohFatPhil: hmm ... that might be related to the expired certificates (07/17/2018)10:00
KotCzarny2018 ?10:01
bencoherr, 201910:01
KotCzarnybut yeah10:01
KotCzarnythat's a clue10:01
FatPhilKotCzarny: couldn't agree more. I tried to migrate over to aptitude briefly, but the gui version of that always crashed!10:01
bencohI use apt-get/apt-cache on maemo10:02
sixwheeledbeastHAM throws that type of error whenever it thinks there is an issue. Other package managers are just asking for trouble on Maemo10:02
FatPhilwell, it claims to have installed backupmenu10:02
FatPhilis that supposed to have created an icon somewhere for me to click on to run it?10:03
KotCzarnyprobably10:03
FatPhilI can't see one10:04
FatPhileither desktops or the app menu10:04
KotCzarnymaybe in prefs?10:04
KotCzarnyi never used bm, so cant comment10:04
sixwheeledbeastI believe bm is only access on boot10:05
sixwheeledbeast~bm10:05
infobotbackupmenu is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install10:05
FatPhilOK, I'll reboot10:07
sixwheeledbeastThe whole do a backup before installing CSSU is likely a red herring. It often happens with some dependency/cert/repo issue10:07
sixwheeledbeastA stock backup may not be useful if CSSU replaces the kernel anyway10:09
bencohsixwheeledbeast: any idea who has admin access btw?10:10
bencoh(to fix the cert thing)10:10
sixwheeledbeastxes?10:10
sixwheeledbeasttechstaff @ maemo?10:11
bencohright, apart from xes I meant, my bad (I pinged him)10:11
sixwheeledbeast~unbanip10:11
infobotfrom memory, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal, or if your ip is dynamic, try changing it, or tags: RBL, tmo IP blocked, spam10:11
bencohah, thx10:11
bencoh~techstaff10:11
infobothmm... techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/10:11
sixwheeledbeastah that's another way10:11
FatPhilno backupmanu evidence anywhere10:13
sixwheeledbeastboot with slide open?10:13
KotCzarnydpkg -l|grep -i backup ?10:13
FatPhilthe package is there, about a dozen files all told10:15
FatPhiljust nothing clickyclicky10:15
sixwheeledbeastboot with slide open, it's to create an image of the OS you can't do that while mounted10:16
KotCzarnyswb, backup menu should add simple icon with documentation to app list10:17
KotCzarny:)10:17
KotCzarnyand maybe basic functionality10:17
FatPhilAh, not much encouragement from the g/f and her battle against CSSU: That [backup] loop was indeed one issue.  If I got past it, there was another.10:18
FatPhilsixwheeledbeast: can someone add that to the wiki? I might need it again in 5 years time!10:19
sixwheeledbeast:shrug: if I recall correctly it's over the limit of what is allowed in rootfs which was blocking it from getting past Devel10:19
sixwheeledbeastWhere in the wiki?10:19
FatPhilstep 2 here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU ?10:20
sixwheeledbeastI'll have a look np. I think many use the lazy flash solution?10:20
sixwheeledbeast~lazyflash10:20
sixwheeledbeastI can't remember what it's call joerg's install script.10:21
KotCzarny~lf10:21
bencohah right10:21
infobotit has been said that #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach10:21
FatPhilYEah, it's a shame that there isn't just a FIASCO with the CSSU on it.10:21
bencohI wonder if it still works10:21
KotCzarnythere is also predecessor:10:22
KotCzarny~flashing10:22
infoboti guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing10:22
bencohthis only flashes stock apparently10:24
sixwheeledbeastFatPhil: done re wiki10:25
FatPhilI flashed stock yesterday10:25
sixwheeledbeastCSSU where not allowed to distribute a CSSU image IIRC.10:26
sixwheeledbeastflash it all maybe it10:26
KotCzarnyswb: lf method is next iteration of it10:27
sixwheeledbeastah10:28
KotCzarnybasically the same, just without manual unpack and sudo etc10:28
KotCzarnyflash-it-all works fine though10:29
FatPhilbooting with camera slide open seems to achieve nothing10:30
KotCzarnynot camera, kb10:30
FatPhilooh10:32
FatPhilnot sure how the CSSU installer is going to know if I've done any of this, so not sure how it addresses the "Can't get out of the 'You must backup' loop" problem10:35
KotCzarnyas mentioned earlier, it might be wrong error message10:35
KotCzarnyand real issue being something else10:35
KotCzarnyie. expired cert on webpage10:35
KotCzarnys/webpage/server/10:36
infobotKotCzarny meant: ie. expired cert on server10:36
FatPhili can set my date to anything10:36
KotCzarnybut feel free to do a backup10:36
KotCzarnyit's not your device, it must be done on server10:36
KotCzarny(the cert)10:37
FatPhilthis is failing the same way as it did 2 years ago for g/f10:37
KotCzarny:)10:37
FatPhilIf my phone thinks its 2017, then a cert that expires in 2018 is still fine10:37
KotCzarnywell, worth a try10:37
bencohKotCzarny: certificate is verified at client side, afaict :)10:43
KotCzarnybencoh, but fix must be done on server10:44
KotCzarny:)10:44
bencohtrue :)10:44
KotCzarnyreal fix, that is10:44
bencohI wonder if it really is the issue though (I just assumed all certs expired at the same time)10:45
KotCzarnyi cant check atm, so lets see how it goes for him10:45
sixwheeledbeastI am sure there is a way to get past the PC suite or Make Backup dialogs in HAM. It's pretty much always a package conflict/repo error.10:45
FatPhilbackupmenu is clunking away, I chose compression, so it looks like I've got an hour to go...10:48
sixwheeledbeastIt's worth having a bm image of before and after installing CSSU that way you only need bm you restore a fresh device.10:49
FatPhilsixwheeledbeast: should I actively delete the no-longer-functioning (default) repos from the app manager?10:50
FatPhilFlashing takes a minute. Nothing is easier than just reflashing.10:51
sixwheeledbeastI don't believe you can, just set as disabled I think10:51
FatPhilbacked up. I'll set my date to 2017, and see if that affects things...11:15
FatPhiloooh - if I did a complete backup of my old phone using backupmenu, and a restore on this phone, might that work? what's not backed up?11:19
bencohgood question, but I'd say it's worth a try :)11:21
bencohwell, unless you want to start fresh11:21
FatPhilah, the kernel's not under /, it's a separate mtd partition11:21
bencohdoes the date trick works though?11:21
bencohyeah11:21
FatPhilapp manager's being weird, it's doing nothing...11:22
bencohbut you can always upgrade to kernel-power anyway11:22
bencoh(alghough using backupmenu might mean you'll be missing kernel modules then ...)11:22
KotCzarnyhow apps restoring works? isnt it just a list of installed ones or full fs dump?11:22
bencoh(this whole separated kernel/modules thing is quite a mess tbh, especially for a phone / embedded product)11:23
FatPhilStill get the Maemo Update: ... you must ... [create backup] popup11:23
FatPhilAnd nothing proceeds after I quit that.11:25
FatPhilstuck in the loop still11:25
FatPhilMight be because I didn't use PC Suite, but that's because I don't have PC Suite (or a windows PC).11:26
FatPhilah, fuckit, I need lunch.11:27
KotCzarny:)11:27
FatPhilI'll install backupmenu on the old phone after lunch, and see if I can get my old CSSU onto an uSD card.11:28
FatPhilHmmm, 2017 gives key expired errors from apt-get update, as does a date of 2016...11:30
bencohthat should be a non-issue11:31
KotCzarnythats for nokia repos11:31
KotCzarnymost likely11:31
KotCzarnyold packages that cant be rebuilt11:31
FatPhilmaemo.muarf.org11:31
KotCzarnyit's just a mirror with old packages11:32
KotCzarnythat refer to expired key11:32
bencohwe never went through the hassle of resigning closed / binary-only packages11:38
bencoh(although we could probably distribute new keys first then use new keys to resign those)11:39
bencohwhich makes me think ... I wonder when cssu keys expire11:39
bencohah, I don't see any "expires"11:41
bencohso maybe never11:41
bencoh(that's strange though)11:41
FatPhilperkele - this phone doesn't have backupmenu...11:55
sixwheeledbeastkernel would need to be the same on both devices your moving the images between11:57
sixwheeledbeast~ham11:58
infobotwell, ham is Hildon Application Manager.  Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does, or see ~speedyham11:58
sixwheeledbeastCSSU-T will install speedyham when you eventually get that far11:58
bencoh~speedyham11:58
infobot[speedyham] 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU.11:58
FatPhili was checking using apt-cache, I'm not stupid!12:00
FatPhilbut yeah, the kernel thing is a big hurdle12:02
sixwheeledbeastAs I say the PC suite message is just some generic message spat out when HAM thinks theres an issue.12:02
FatPhili might be able to get over it by excessive use of flasher12:02
sixwheeledbeastFrom memory you need to dismiss it and find the problems tab which will normally show the actual issue12:03
FatPhilor ... I could just stick with grotty nokia userspace12:04
sixwheeledbeastYou have added the mirror nokia repos in HAM?12:05
FatPhilI have the two from maemo.muarf.org - the linenoise ones are dead links now12:06
sixwheeledbeastyep muarf12:07
FatPhillog says nothing but "connectec to [some uuid]" after dismissing the backup12:07
sixwheeledbeastYou have the CSSU packge installer as an item in HAM? If you select it can you get to Problems tab12:08
FatPhilwhich section would it be under in HAM - 'system'?12:09
sixwheeledbeastAlso check the muarf repos are added correctly. distribution box should be ./12:10
sixwheeledbeastsystem?12:10
FatPhilI see CSSU features configuration package, that's all12:10
FatPhilyup, in HAM, under download, there are 11 icons for the different types of package12:10
sixwheeledbeastso how are you installing cssu?12:10
sixwheeledbeastYOu click the 'install link on the website right?12:11
FatPhilstarting at 1. and working my way down here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU12:11
KotCzarnyit's also worth noting that clicking results in some window, that you close, then app manager does it's magic underneath and after some minutes something pops up/updates for real12:12
FatPhilthere was a shell window the first time12:12
FatPhilthat popped up HAM, and the loop began12:13
KotCzarnymight be worth checking what troubles apt has underneath12:13
FatPhilso, I clicked the link, PAM said the package was already installed, and now I'm sitting at the PAM main menu - what should I do next?12:15
sixwheeledbeastIf you accepted the script then there should be a Community SSU "program" icon in your list of programs you click12:17
sixwheeledbeastThis is step 7 on wiki12:17
sixwheeledbeastclose ham first12:17
FatPhilI'm stuck at step 612:18
FatPhilshell window popped up, lots of stuck was unpacked, PAM was launched, I OKed a couple of popup dialogs, and then I was ordered to make a backup.12:19
sixwheeledbeaststep 6 takes a while and there should be an accept option.12:19
sixwheeledbeastright so try step 712:20
FatPhilstep 6 has not completed12:20
FatPhilafter I create a backup, HAM just sits there doing nothing.12:20
sixwheeledbeastis it definately doing "nothing" no waiting animations?12:21
FatPhilIf I attempt to update, it checks for updates, shows Maemo 5 CSSU package, and a whole bunch of libqtms, and I then click [update all]12:22
FatPhilready to install all updates [Continue]12:22
sixwheeledbeastSo you are at step 7 step 6 has finished from what i can tell12:22
FatPhilPReparing, please wait ... Update: Maemo 5 CSSI  [x] I understand and agree [continue]12:23
sixwheeledbeastclose HAM click the icon in programs list12:23
FatPhilmaemo update: ... you must ... [create backup]12:23
sixwheeledbeastok you may have ended up at step 812:24
FatPhildismissing that popup leaves me with the list of packages that need to be updated and the [update all] button.12:24
FatPhilclicking through to the backup wastes my time and then takes me back to the same place.12:25
sixwheeledbeastDo step 712:25
KotCzarnyi strongly suspect some package blocks the update (or missing repo)12:25
sixwheeledbeaststep 7 installs the repos to HAM while it's closed12:25
KotCzarnysince that's what i stumbled upon long time ago when i was updating from stock12:25
KotCzarnyyup, might be just that12:26
FatPhilThere is no "Community SSU" icon to launch. Probably because the 51.8MB of packages that needed to be updated as part of the Maaemo 5 CSSU package never were updated.12:27
sixwheeledbeastI would close HAM have a coffee while it thinks, then find the Community SSU icon in programs which will run the next script to install the CSSU repos.12:27
KotCzarnycssu updater should be rewritten in pygtk with feedback what it currently does12:28
KotCzarnywithout all that window juggling and background magic12:28
bencohuh12:28
sixwheeledbeastThe .install file my have been interrupted somehow then.. hmm It is a community workaround for system updates :shrug:12:29
bencohI don't really follow with the "pygtk" thing, but ...12:29
KotCzarnypygtk makes it easy to fix12:29
KotCzarnyand let user see what it does12:29
sixwheeledbeastThen I would check the Community SSU repo has been added to the Application Catalogues list if it's not there try adding it manually and installing as per step 812:30
FatPhiltop shows that nothing's running12:30
FatPhilI now have 2 Community SSU (testing) catalogue entries, both identical12:32
KotCzarnyassuming update process is already broken, check what apt-get update/upgrade barfs on12:33
FatPhilupdate barfs on the cert expired error12:33
FatPhil(with the hilarious "run apt-get update to fix" advice!)12:34
KotCzarnycare to pastebin it ?12:34
FatPhilsure, what's a good pastebin for you guys?12:35
KotCzarnypastebin.com is fine if you have adblocker12:35
KotCzarnyit has nice 'raw' button12:35
FatPhilargh, I can't use this new phone, it doesn't have all the shell-friendly kdb mappings I set up on the old one!12:38
sixwheeledbeastso when you select Community SSU (Testing) to install in HAM can you get to a Problems Tab?12:39
sixwheeledbeastNot if you Select "Update all" just the Community SSU update12:40
sixwheeledbeastI think it's an Application Details dialog box with a Problems tab12:42
FatPhilpastebin not letting me paste, presumably captcha/cookies issue12:42
KotCzarnyFatPhil: install ssh server and rootsh for now12:44
KotCzarnyeasies the cmdline chores12:44
bencoh+1 for ssh :)12:45
FatPhilyeah, I have ssh'ed root@localhost12:45
FatPhilAnd I hve a webserver, who needs pastebin! http://fatphil.org/tmp/aptupd.txt12:45
bencoh:)12:46
KotCzarnyupdate seems ok12:46
bencohthose errors are "fine"12:46
KotCzarnywhat does 'upgrade' say? (dont confirm it though)12:46
FatPhils/upd/upg/12:48
infobotFatPhil meant: And I hve a webserver, who needs pastebin! http://fatphil.org/tmp/aptupg.txt12:48
KotCzarnyho hum12:49
KotCzarnynothing suspicious12:49
FatPhilI'm much happier doing things from the command line (at least when I have my kbd mappings set up)12:50
FatPhilshould I go ahead with the upgrade?12:50
FatPhilI don't care if I fuck the phone, a reflash is only a minute away12:50
KotCzarnyif you have repos added, ho hum12:50
KotCzarnysure, you are stuck anyway, no?12:50
KotCzarny:)12:50
bencohgo for it :)12:51
FatPhilauthentication warnings dismissed...12:51
KotCzarnybencoh, do you know if cssu installer does anything more than adding repos, installing one package and doing upgrade?12:51
bencohthat's the question I'm asking myself tbh12:52
FatPhilsource?12:52
KotCzarnysure, i'm 'working' now though. ;)12:52
bencohFatPhil: ?12:52
FatPhilnot that I read gui12:53
KotCzarnybut currently cssu installer is so convoluted and error prone that it might as well be rewritten12:53
FatPhilas a small perl script!12:53
KotCzarny(which i have added to personal todo)12:53
KotCzarnyfatphil, pygtk is fine too,  ;)12:53
bencohoh, you mean "just read the source" ... yeah :)12:53
FatPhilyeah, sorry, being a bit brief12:54
FatPhilA console-only upgrade path would be something I'd willingly help test.12:54
KotCzarnyyou are doing it now12:55
KotCzarny;)12:55
KotCzarnyif you end up with cssu-t, it might be the way12:55
FatPhilI'd like this new phone to be my primary device by next week, but until then, it's fair game for experimentation.12:55
bencoh:)12:55
FatPhilis -t testing or thumbing?12:55
KotCzarnyoh, right12:56
bencohI wonder if we could actually distribute a cssu "patch" to the fiasco image12:56
KotCzarnyyou shouldnt use cssu-testing12:56
KotCzarnyeither cssu or cssu-thumb12:56
bencohand actually patch said image on client side12:56
KotCzarnybencoh: by patch you mean 'repack' ?12:56
bencoh(this way we wouldn't need to redistribute the closed binary)12:56
bencohKotCzarny: either a proper repack, or a binary patch :)12:56
KotCzarnyplausible, but keep in mind different distros suck big time when it comes to writing to images/mkfs etc12:57
KotCzarnybeen there, done that12:57
bencoh(bsdiff/bspatch for instance)12:57
bencohyeah12:57
KotCzarnyended up writing small ramdisk and running things on controlled env12:57
KotCzarny;)12:57
KotCzarnyi would simply go with the fiasco way, after all those years who would care anyway12:58
KotCzarnyn900 is so old and obsolete12:58
KotCzarny;)12:58
KotCzarnyand no money to get out of it12:58
FatPhilWell, I clicked testing at step 5. I presumed that was testing, not thumbing.12:58
KotCzarnyFatPhil: i personally can recommend thumb, saves some ram and is stable12:59
FatPhilKotCzarny: there are no staff to detect the crime, and no lawyers to chase it up!12:59
bencohI vaguely recall -thumb sits in a different repo12:59
FatPhilold phone is thumb, and it's mostly good. Camera's fxored12:59
FatPhilmight be h/w12:59
KotCzarnyor you have installed some b0rken driver13:00
bencohoh, I completely forgot about https://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/software-updates-courgette13:00
FatPhilyou will notice that http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU doesn't define "CSSU-T" before first use.13:01
FatPhilWell, I did, anyway.13:01
FatPhilah, upgrade had some failures. I wasn't teeing the output alas.13:04
FatPhilmaemosec-certman-common-ca13:05
KotCzarnywhat kind of failures?13:05
bencoha postinst issue?13:05
FatPhilI will try some surgery to fix it, as the system might be in a bit of a confused state by now, and if that doesn't work I'll just reflash and start again.13:05
KotCzarnypastebin what you have now13:06
KotCzarny:)13:06
FatPhil_managed to persuade apt-get upgrade to complete, I think13:14
FatPhil_in the middle it popped up a HAM, which has stopped on the notification "Unable to download Community-ssu-enabler-testing. Application package not found.13:16
bencohhuhu13:16
KotCzarnywhich is probably the reason installer was failing13:17
KotCzarnynow the cause of that..13:17
FatPhil_it showed no updates pending. i did a refresh, and now the maemo 5 cssu package is in the updates list.13:18
FatPhil_this phones knickers have more twists than knickers now.13:20
FatPhil_that package is nio longer 58MB, it's 671KB13:20
bencohwhich package is that? the meta one? the "enabler" app?13:22
FatPhilooooh - now Maemo Update doesn't say "... you must ..." at the backup stage now!  - proceeding13:22
FatPhiland it's closed my xterm, I see!13:22
FatPhilpewpewpew!13:22
Wikiwide/me waves13:23
bencoh\o13:24
FatPhilreboot...13:24
WikiwidePower-button drop-down menu doesn't work. I have already tried 'killall systemui' and 'systemui'. If i black-out the screen and press power-button, then Slide to unlock works.13:24
FatPhil'operating system successfully updated'!13:25
* bencoh claps13:25
bencohcongratz!13:26
KotCzarny:)13:26
KotCzarnycmdline ftw!13:26
bencohnot for most regular users, but ... yeah13:26
FatPhilexactly - and I couldn't have done it without the help of you pesky meddling kids!13:26
WikiwideIf you get memory card, try dual-booting with Maemo Leste?13:26
FatPhilI do have a spare uSD, I could play with that13:28
Wikiwide/me is too exhausted to even try thinking about it; should be doable, in theory... In practice, I have broken microUSB, rusty antennae, and run out of charge fairly quickly13:28
FatPhildo I need backupmenu in order to boot into it?13:28
WikiwideUboot, probably13:28
bencohuboot yeah13:29
WikiwideNot multi-boot, if I remember correctly. Multi-boot is the one that can brick the device? /Unbricking is easy... If microUSB port is fine/13:29
bencohwhich you should probably install anyway13:29
bencoh(same goes for kernel-power)13:29
KotCzarnysame goes for cssu-thumb13:30
FatPhilthe weird thing is I never interatcted with any Community SSU icon at all. That step must have been achieved by the command line13:31
FatPhilhow do I know I'm thumb?13:32
bencohyou're probably not, unless you specifically installed it13:32
KotCzarnycheck which cssu repos you use13:32
FatPhilI'm not running a -cssu kernl according to uname13:32
KotCzarnypower kernel is recommended13:33
WikiwideSettings -> About Community SSU can help13:34
FatPhilLinux kernel for power users?13:34
KotCzarnynah13:34
KotCzarnyjust not-stock-kernel-with-some-handy-tweaks13:34
FatPhilif not that, then what's it called?13:36
KotCzarnypower kernel13:36
KotCzarnyor kernel power13:36
WikiwideHmm, how do I see whether I am running Thumb or not? Repositories list community-testing and community-devel13:36
KotCzarnyand yeah, brief questions bring ambiguoity13:36
FatPhilAh, HAM is showing me the description of the package larger than the package name.13:36
bencohsee http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb :)13:36
KotCzarnyalso: dpkg|grep thumb13:37
KotCzarnyif you see some packages, you are running thumb13:37
KotCzarny;)13:37
KotCzarnyi mean: dpkg -l|grep thumb13:37
FatPhilkernel power 2.6.28.30 = "Linux kernel for power users"13:37
KotCzarnyFatPhil: yeah, go for it13:38
WikiwideYes, thumb apparently :-)13:38
WikiwideI am running kernel power 2.6.28-10power53 ?..13:38
bencohpower53 sounds about fine yeah13:39
bencohnevermind the .30 :)13:39
WikiwideLolz, confusing :-)13:39
FatPhilwhat was the name of the faster app manager? I used to use FAPman on the old device, which was better, but not great.13:40
KotCzarnydont use fapman13:40
KotCzarnyif you upgraded to cssu (any), you should have speedyham13:40
KotCzarnyie. HAM that's patched by community to be normal again13:40
FatPhilHAM refuses to ackowledge existence of its replacement13:41
Wikiwide/me recommends QML-Browser and Fahrplan, as some of the few packages that use the latest openssl 1.1.0h-413:41
KotCzarnybecause it's the same packages13:41
KotCzarny*package13:41
KotCzarny*package name13:41
KotCzarnydpkg -l|grep -i ham|grep cssu13:42
FatPhilno thumb packages13:43
KotCzarnymaybe not ham but some longer name13:43
KotCzarnydont remember13:43
KotCzarnydpkg -l|grep -i package|grep cssu13:43
KotCzarnyor something maybe13:43
FatPhilno hildon-application-manager with that13:44
KotCzarny~speedyham13:45
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM https://github.com/community-ssu/hildon-application-manager, now included in CSSU.13:45
FatPhil2.2.75.213:45
WikiwideNo ham-ish results visible for dpkg -l | grep cssu | grep thumb13:45
KotCzarnyho hum13:46
Wikiwide2.2.75-2 here?13:46
FatPhiland as I mentioned - I have no thumb at all. What did I do wrong? At no point was I able to specifically chose thumb during the process in the wiki.13:46
KotCzarnyFatPhil: you have installe cssu-testing13:47
KotCzarnycssu-thumb is another repo13:47
KotCzarnyyou can migrate to it at any time13:47
sixwheeledbeastBeen away. About >Community SSU is the place to check verison13:47
KotCzarnyjust make sure you have power kernel13:47
FatPhilstep 5 lists only stable and testing, no thumb13:47
FatPhilI was just obeying orders!13:48
KotCzarnyyou didnt ask for thumb13:48
KotCzarny:)13:48
sixwheeledbeast~getversion13:48
infobotgetversion is, like, input the following in a terminal:   osso-product-info | grep OSSO_VERSION | cut -d "'" -f 2; dpkg-query -W -f='${Version}  ' mp-fremantle-community-pr; uname -r13:48
KotCzarnyanyway, https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb13:48
WikiwideRepositories?.. Which repository is for thumb?13:48
sixwheeledbeasttesting has one newer package that wasn't released in thumb13:48
KotCzarnyswb: important one?13:49
sixwheeledbeastthumb was a fmg side project.13:49
sixwheeledbeastTmaemo12 was not available for thumb13:50
WikiwideWMO certificate expired on 17th of July 2019!!!13:50
KotCzarnyahm, you've meant 'one subrelease of cssu'13:50
sixwheeledbeastAFAIK if you have both Thumb and Testing repos you get some hybrid version of the newer packages13:51
WikiwideWiki.maemo.org ^13:51
sixwheeledbeastsorry yes release not package13:51
KotCzarnyswb: they differ in version, i think apt will downgrade them?13:52
sixwheeledbeasthybrid meaning you get some thumb packages and some non-thumb as per apt versioning13:52
sixwheeledbeastno idea if this would cause an issue13:52
KotCzarnyand yeah, having cssu-thumb repos should remove any other cssu repos from ham13:53
FatPhilhttp://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-thumb/community-thumb-fremantle.install implies both Community SSU repos remain in use13:55
FatPhil-testing and -thumb13:55
KotCzarnyfunky13:56
FatPhilunfortunately, it contains the dreaded package = community-ssu-enabler which lead me down the garden path all morning!13:56
KotCzarnythats because it's what does the cssu upgrade13:57
FatPhilbut that would seem to imply just adding that repo to sources.list.d/...13:58
FatPhilcommand line upgrade, update, bosh!13:58
FatPhilThis HAM is retarded. I try to install a package, and it complains about being unable to install a package because of its dependencies.13:59
FatPhilErm, that's what your job is, as a package manager.13:59
sicelon900 people go and come back ... addictive little thing.14:00
sicelo>> having cssu-thumb repos should remove any other cssu repos from ham<< i am not sure about this. thumb is just a small subset of -testing.14:01
FatPhilerk - apt-get fails to install those too14:01
KotCzarnysicelo, yeah, seeing that thumb .install it's like that14:02
KotCzarny:)14:02
sicelobtw, someone should mention that CSSU is also obsolete. we're unlikely to ever see any further updates14:02
siceloFatPhil: you wrote zzztop?14:03
FatPhilah, looks like the packages themselves hve broken dependencies (epseak)14:03
FatPhilsicelo: yup14:03
sicelo:)14:04
WikiwideWhy is CSSU obsolete? Because Maemo Leste?14:05
KotCzarnybecause cssu-testing maybe14:05
sicelomaybe i should say, frozen.14:05
FatPhilI just hope it has been useful. It (or the non-OSS original it's basically a clone of) was very useful back in the day (2009)14:05
WikiwideOr CSSU-devel, even...14:06
siceloFatPhil: yes i still use it14:06
siceloall CSSU are frozen. when was the last update?14:06
KotCzarnycssu-devel is where the dragons live14:06
Wikiwide/me is installing zzztop14:07
FatPhilmake sure you read the license: you can't use zzztop unless you have a beard. or your name is beard. (joking, obvs!)14:10
WikiwideNeat! What is DMA? And shouldn't zzztop depend on perl?14:10
FatPhilisn't perl standard? In which case you do you need to list it as a dep?14:15
FatPhilMy disclaimer is that I never made the package, I only ever wrote the script itself.14:16
KotCzarnydepends on distro14:16
KotCzarnymost debian-like ones need perl, and its in bare-minimum set14:16
FatPhilmaemo's debian-ish, and I think debian has that cop-out for not listing every darn thing.14:17
FatPhilOK, so I guess I should now go -thumb, maybe the deps issues I'm seeing are because of -testing.14:22
KotCzarnynope14:22
KotCzarnythumb is using testing anyway14:23
sixwheeledbeastDoes a beard allow you package it up for Maemo?14:25
sixwheeledbeast~zzztop14:26
infobotmethinks zzztop is - the better and even FOSS powertop - http://wiki.maemo.org/Zzztop14:26
FatPhilOK, the thumb installer link on the thumb wiki page failed in HAM complaining the enabler wasn't available. But I have some blinking [i] in teh status bar, so have the option of clicky-clicky-fail or cmdline headscratch...14:28
sixwheeledbeastI would say they are all frozen. CSSU-T != CSSU-S due to the additional FOSS replacement packages that where forced upon you if you went Testing route.14:29
sixwheeledbeastnicocam etc14:29
FatPhilanyone quickly know how a directory can tell nginx to enable automatic index generation in the absense of an index.html file?14:44
bencohFatPhil: are you actually looking for a .htaccess equivalent?14:57
bencoh(well, in that respect at least)14:57
FatPhilbencoh: basically, yes. I don't want to have to (as root) change the website conf just because I want to change the autoindex on|off property for a few ad hoc directories (that root needn't even have knowledge about)15:06
FatPhilno amount of googling persuades me this is possible.15:08
bencohlooks like try_files is your best bet15:12
bencoh(but then you can't allow/disallow it in a per-directory file)15:12
FatPhilyeah, I think I'd have to create a script with a unique extension to generate an index on the fly, and drop one of those in every directory I wanted to make indexable.15:13
bencohtbh that's the main (only?) reason I still have apache for user directories and the like15:13
FatPhilI just migrated my web server, and decided to convert from apache to nginx in the process15:14
bencohI wonder if writing a module for that would work15:15
bencoh(one that'd check a .index file)15:15
bencohyou could always patch the autoindex_module I guess, but ...15:17
FatPhilIt's easier to write a little script that will just regenerate a real static index.html each time I add a new file there. KISS!15:19
KotCzarnyit's easier to move back to apache15:19
KotCzarny;)15:19
FatPhilI could proxy certain sites to apache, I guess15:19
FatPhilno, no, no! kill the hideous apache!15:19
KotCzarnyor thttpd15:19
bencohpoor apache15:20
KotCzarnyor even khttpd :P15:20
bencoh*kof*kof*15:20
FatPhilCan anyone explain why the available espeak is version ...22, and it depends on libespeak (=...22), but the libespeak that's available is ...27?15:21
KotCzarnyrepos salsa15:21
KotCzarnyapt-cache policy for the rescue15:21
KotCzarny*to the15:21
* FatPhil quickly changes the root passwd from rootme to rootmenow, for added security15:27
FatPhiljust did a reboot and I now have -thumb packages, and -power53 kernel15:29
KotCzarnykeep in mind only packages with 'thumb' in version are recompiled15:29
KotCzarnythe rest comes from cssu-testing15:29
FatPhilI'll restore some of my old config, will even move the SIM to it, and check that everything "kinda works". And if it does, I'll reflash, and do the whole procedure again - this time missing out the steps that were not useful.15:31
bencoh:)15:32
FatPhilRecording the steps as I go. BEcause I will want this information in 5 years time!15:32
KotCzarnyor just go full cmdline15:32
KotCzarny;)15:32
FatPhilI'm not 100% convinced I really need HAM at all. I'm perfectly happy with apt-{cache,get}.15:34
FatPhilperfectly happy to vi sources.list.d/... too15:34
FatPhilI'm not a very gui person.15:35
bencohyou're not alone :)15:37
KotCzarnykeep in mind that HAM keeps it's own repos list in separate file15:37
FatPhilKotCzarny: there's one under sources.list.d with HAM's name on it15:44
KotCzarnythat might be it, you can try editing it and seeing if changes show in ham15:45
FatPhilI think HAM just falls back onto core apt- helpers, so even if you confuse HAM about what repos it can manage, it should be OK with the actual package lists.15:46
FatPhiland I don't need HAM to manage things I can manage using vi, so everyone's happy :)15:47
bencoh:)15:48
KotCzarnybut if you play that way, be aware you can get ass raped later when you expect it least15:48
KotCzarny;)15:48
KotCzarnythats why it has to play nice with ham too15:49
bencohlast time I launched HAM was only to see if it still works / for the spit of it15:49
bencohI didn't really use it15:49
FatPhilI've been using FAP for the last 5 years, so I'm clearly in a high-risk group!15:50
FatPhilis tcc the only compiler available?15:52
bencohI'd suggest compiling in scratchbox if you need anything else to be honest15:53
FatPhilI used to have GCC packages installed waaaay back. Probably lost it 5 years ago when I moved onto the now-being-retired hardware and decided to go CSSU-Thumb.15:54
bencoh(although we do have gcc in extras-devel)15:54
FatPhilooooh - maybe I should add that in my own sources.list.d file, just to try to break things! (as I said, I'll be reflashing this by the weekend)15:57
FatPhilo/ freemangordon15:59
freemangordonFatPhil: hi!15:59
siceloFatPhil: devuan? then you might like Maemo Leste :)16:03
KotCzarnyFatPhil: you can use my dev-chroot16:03
KotCzarnyit provides scratchbox based env to any arm device (n900 included)16:03
KotCzarnyso you can install packages into chroot without f*cking up the device16:04
KotCzarnyhttps://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=9876216:04
FatPhilI never was much of a fan of scratchbox. Did scratchbox2 ever get any traction, that was technologically better?16:05
KotCzarnyand once pkg is built, you can install it to the device16:05
FatPhilit's been a very long time since I did any development for the thing. I just use it.16:05
KotCzarnyscratchbox is mostly for crosscompiling and testing env16:05
FatPhilHowever, I use it as a computer.16:05
KotCzarnyi've ripped most of the parts and made it run native on arm boxes16:06
FatPhilsicelo: yeah, gave up on debian after 15+ years, and devuan was the most sensible place to go. Been on it pretty much since the beginning.16:06
FatPhilKotCzarny: Certainly I'll get back to you on that, once I have this stable as my daily device.16:07
KotCzarnythere is no installation, just unpack on some ext* fs16:07
KotCzarnyand startup script is included16:07
KotCzarnybbl16:08
FatPhilare there no lightweight emacslike editors? I can vi, but I'd rather not.16:42
bencohhttps://bellard.org/qemacs/ maybe16:46
bencoh(I have never tried it though)16:46
bencohit actually sounds perfect for n900 tbh16:47
FatPhilI used to have that but it crashed a lot16:47
bencohoh :(16:47
siceloKotCzarny: is there such SB chroot for x86 perhaps? i think it'd be nice to have it on the X4016:48
bencohsicelo: you could just install sb as it is16:49
bencohthe maemo version, I mean16:49
* FatPhil now checks to see if HAM can see the qemacs-nox that was made available by a separate sources.list.d file...17:02
sunshaviFatPhil: Do You want to try emacs-23?17:11
FatPhilI prefer 23 to 24, certainly17:16
sunshavii am going to share the deb in a few mins. Let me extract it from device itself17:16
FatPhilgiven that this setup will be nuked in a couple of days, I'll happily test it out. However, by the very nature of how I got this system set up earlier today, it shouldn't be considered a stock build.17:17
FatPhilHAM's really beginning to piss be off - every time I go back to the main menu screen, it checks for updates.17:19
FatPhilhowever, it spotted the new qemacs, so wasn't too confused by my apt configs17:20
bencohwhy do you still use it btw?17:22
FatPhilmy phone is a terminal to my home machines, where I have loads of tmux sessions17:22
FatPhilit's a portable xterm, basically. almost everything i do is text-based, and most of that is on remote machines.17:23
bencoh:)17:23
bencohsame here, pretty much17:23
FatPhilIt ain't a phone, that's just a minor part of its functionality.17:23
bencoh(still use it as a gps though)17:23
bencoh(and a phone)17:23
FatPhilg/f has the n9 for GPS functionality - maps is the worst thing in the universe on n90017:23
FatPhils/n9/n950/17:24
infobotFatPhil meant: g/f has the n950 for GPS functionality - maps is the worst thing in the universe on n90017:24
sunshaviFatPhil: https://transfer.sh/bDHkv/emacs_23.4-1_armel.deb17:24
bencohI use marble17:24
bencoh(slightly patched)17:24
sicelofunny enough, for my uses, Ovi Maps suits me perfectly17:24
FatPhilI see "MArble - Virtual Globe" and "Marble Maps"17:24
bencohI never got myself to write a google transit plugin for marble, but I really should17:25
bencohmarble maps it is :)17:25
FatPhilhm,, not seeing a compiler still17:25
bencohat that point I think most non-OviMaps users went for modrana though17:25
bencoh(was it modrana?)17:25
siceloyes, modrana17:26
sicelostill in active development too, afaik17:26
bencohgcc-4.6:17:26
bencoh        400 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages17:26
bencohit's in extra-devels17:26
FatPhilah, possibly pebcak17:30
FatPhili didn't delete cached .bins before apt update17:30
FatPhilbut now have17:30
bencohcached .bins?17:30
bencohI only edit sources.list* before running apt-get update, but ... ;)17:31
FatPhil/var/cache/apt/*.bin not sure if it really makes a difference, but I did have a failed search a few minutes back17:31
FatPhilsunshavi: wget says connection reset by peer17:34
FatPhilo/ Pali17:35
bencohsounds like a ssl issue17:36
FatPhilgets to my PC ok, just the phone didn't like it.17:37
bencohwget uses a pretty old version of openssl on n900, iirc17:39
bencoh(unless somebody moved it to the openssl 1.x version, but I doubt it)17:39
bencohthat means you have no TLS>1.0 support17:39
FatPhilyeah, the old phone certain;y couldn't see half of the modern web :(17:40
bencohat that point we should probably keep the openssl0.9.8 libraries in a -compat package, upgrade main openssl package to 1.x, and rebuild packages depending on it where needed/possible17:41
bencohas for web browsing, one could use a ssl/tls proxy (using said openssl 1.x)17:41
FatPhilsounds too advanced for little old me.17:42
FatPhilI'll just shake my fist and shout at a cloud!17:42
bencohthat's pretty much what every one does these days, yeah :)17:42
bencoh(for hope / dev, see maemo-lest :)17:43
bencohleste*17:43
FatPhilunpacking emacs ...17:44
FatPhilI'm due in a pub soon, wherein I will be appending a few beer reviews to a file that contains a thousand or so, that's one of the prime jobs for the phone - emacs to add, grep to check whether I need to add or not.17:45
FatPhilno space left on device :(17:47
sunshavimmm. try emacs-24 download it from maemo packages17:47
sunshavithat pkg have been optified17:48
sunshavifor dired to work You would need some modifications on ur dot emacs17:49
FatPhilthe .emacs I wrote back in 1989 no longer works anyway, I've given up hope!17:49
FatPhilcriminy - I see emacs 25 in my apt-cache search17:50
sunshavii am going to try to optify emacs-23 tonight17:50
FatPhilif you could, that would be fantastic! (despite me thinking that the way nokia did the optifying was the most stupid way possible)17:50
sunshavibut actually emmc today is speedier than emmc on n900 (i was thinking about that before modem failed) ;)17:52
KotCzarnysicelo: yeah, just install scratchbox for x86, you will need some sb hacks nokia did to it anyway17:53
FatPhilbefore they even invented optifying, I detected space was a problem, implemented a KISS solution, and filed a bug. So they rolled their own braindead one because apparently one of the SSW team had just discovered bind mounts, and wanted to use them for everything, no matter how inappropriate.17:53
sunshaviFatPhil: THat perhaps could be helpul for maemo-leste17:54
xesbencoh: done. certbot fixed and certificates renewed17:57
FatPhilah, I was more after an emacs-nox than a full emacs, doesn't seem one's available.17:59
bencohxes: yay, thanks \o/18:01
bencohFatPhil: I wonder if installing from GUI would work now that certs are fixed18:01
sunshaviFatPhil: I have never tried compiling zile. But I believe It should work18:03
FatPhilsunshavi: zile's my emacs-lite at home18:04
FatPhilbencoh: I can give it a go, but I'm not convinced that was the problem. As I said, my g/f had exactly the same failure a couple of years back18:05
FatPhilerk, I'm not enjoying qemacs much, it's trying to be too clever18:05
sunshaviI would need to undust my debian knowledge for getting sources and compiling it in the chroot (kotczarny-authored)18:06
bencohFatPhil: ah, strange, but alright18:06
FatPhilnote to self - still need to install marble maps...18:08
DocScrutinizer05>>[18 Jul 2019 10:21:48] <FatPhil> YEah, it's a shame that there isn't just a FIASCO with the CSSU on it.<< nobody made one18:09
FatPhilbut I'm now being summoned to the pub...18:09
FatPhilo/ DocScrutinizer05!18:09
DocScrutinizer05you need a clean install without lots of config18:09
DocScrutinizer05to wrap it into a FIASCO18:09
DocScrutinizer05hi FatPhil :-)18:10
FatPhilDocScrutinizer05: yeah, this is a new body I'm flashing today, old one's got too old to be reliable.18:10
DocScrutinizer05there's however a FIASCO with BM pre-installed so after flashing that you instantly could restore a BM backup of a CSSU system18:11
FatPhilBM?18:11
DocScrutinizer05~bm18:11
infobotbackupmenu is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install18:11
FatPhilaha, yup, I installed that today for the first time.18:12
DocScrutinizer05it basically means: you don't have a disk image of CSSU but you got a disk image of a system with tar so you can restore a tarball CSSU18:13
FatPhilsigh, emacs24's unusable garbage, as expected :(18:13
FatPhilI don't think I've installed a non--nox emacs since they made the split wayyyy back18:14
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: ~listvalues cloud-7 ; or similar18:15
FatPhiland dpkg -P makes the problem go away, right where was I - some king of maps...18:15
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues lazy*flashing18:15
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues lazy18:16
infobotFactoid search of 'lazy' by value (20 of 56): #maemo lazyflashing ;; because /me ;; cmd: lazy (.*?) ;; dunwana ;; empty fridge syndrome ;; firedfly ;; ftp ;; garfield ;; gcc 3.3 kernel thing ;; get dist-upgrade ;; gtk-- ;; idd ;; jumping jack ;; klb ;; kremonte ;; loll ;; peter ;; port 7099 ;; rj ;; sabrod.18:16
DocScrutinizer05~listvalues cloud-7*lazy18:16
infobotFactoid search of 'cloud-7*lazy' by value (1): maemo-flashing.18:16
FatPhilI looked at the lazy flashing script - it's basically a wrapper for 2 lines18:16
DocScrutinizer05yes, plus timing and user guidance18:17
FatPhilanyway, gonna install marble in the pub...18:17
DocScrutinizer05plus stealth downloading18:17
DocScrutinizer05plus ld_preload hackery18:17
sunshaviFatPhil: configure: error: Package requirements (bdw-gc >= 7.2) were not met: {when compiling zile}18:37
bencohsunshavi: I uploaded zile 2.3 (wheezy) to extras18:45
bencohlet's see if it builds  there (I checked locally and it worked)18:46
FatPhilbollox - pub wifi doesn't work on the new phone, gonna have to wait...19:01
sicelonew phone = n900?19:01
FatPhilsunshavi: I presume bdw-gc is just the boehm gc, so should be a reasonably boring build - it's decades old.19:04
FatPhilnew phone = n900; old phone (what I'm typing on now) = n900; old old phone = n90019:05
FatPhilthey last ~ 5 years19:05
FatPhilstill have a couple spare, plus scavenged parts from the "dead" ones.19:06
FatPhilin fact I have a whole graveyard of spares, apart from mobos (usb=fail) and touchscreens (scratches)19:07
FatPhilwhen people broke theirs, I went on the scrounge19:07
FatPhilI'm still on the scrounge for an A/V cable - none of them have come with it, apart for 1, and I lost that one.19:11
KotCzarnymy n900 is almost 10 years old19:28
KotCzarnystill with me19:28
KotCzarny:)19:28
sixwheeledbeastsame19:43
sicelome too. :)19:48
sunshaviFatPhil: r u using the zile uploaded by bencoh?20:03
sunshavibencoh: your uploaded zile does not appears on http://maemo.org/packages for downloading manually20:55
sunshavibencoh: version 2.3 compiles fine21:26
sunshavihttps://transfer.sh/NHD1S/zile_2.3.24-1_armel.deb21:26
sunshavi21:26
FatPhilok, found a pub with working wifi21:40
FatPhilwas a lot of effort... ;-)21:40
FatPhilmarble is now giving hellawierd messages that disappear before I can read them21:41
FatPhilbut unds with a presumed success21:41
FatPhilends21:41
FatPhilmarble uses OSM?21:43
FatPhilit looks like OSM, as I'm the most active local OSM contributor21:43
FatPhilg/f now wants marble!21:45
bencohFatPhil: marble can use several map providers, the most used/useful one is probably marble21:45
FatPhilthis is OSM, I recognise it21:45
FatPhilfuxtix, this is measurably, scientifically, 100x better than the bundled crap21:47
FatPhilI always knew the bundled crap was crap but I never knew by what factor21:48
FatPhilsorry if I'm crude, it is the 5th pub of the evening.21:49
FatPhilNokia spent billions on 3rd rate bottom of the barrel subcontractors, that's a fact. if they'd have got thr marble guys on board (a) the marble guys would be way richer; (b) everyone who got the phone would have had a better experience.21:52
FatPhilsorry, getting ranty21:53
FatPhilmarble is *FANTASTIC* thank you thank you thank you21:57
FatPhilnot yet turned GPS on, just as a mapping app it's as good as OSM is on my (mini) PC21:58
FatPhilno pint now, I'm in a cellar bar (with good wifi)21:59
FatPhilHmmm, OK, things are confusing - settings says GPS is enabled, but I don't see the Jodrell Bank icon in the status bar22:02
KotCzarnyopen source apps/projects come out of the passion of hundreds if not thousands of people22:02
KotCzarnyand whatever you say about nokia, they also did awesome projects22:05
KotCzarnyone of them being n900 and maemo itself22:06
KotCzarnymany of bundled apps are 3rd party things thrown in the mix 'just to fill the holes'22:07
FatPhilI've not had a job in the last 10 years that wasn't for an open source company - by which I mean one which wrote OSS, and gambled wheter they could make money from it22:08
FatPhiltotally in love with OSS22:09
FatPhilsome companies have done well from it, others have gone bust. but the one that wen bust was the one that jumped into bed with microsoft.22:10
FatPhil(nokia)22:10
KotCzarnynah22:11
KotCzarnyit was inside job22:11
KotCzarnyelopocalypse22:11
FatPhilyup, and I have the inside story...22:12
FatPhilnokia outsourced all their email to microsoft, which was handled in amsterdam, we looked at the headers, all the way back in 200822:13
FatPhilthe MS servers applied line-wrap to the kernel patches we were attempting to sen to each others on internal mailing lists22:14
FatPhilas you can probably understand, patch (git apply) doesn't like linewrap much22:15
KotCzarnynormal mail servers dont touch mails themselves22:15
KotCzarnyapart from filtering and forwarding22:15
FatPhilbut MS wa sniffing *all* internal nokia mails froam before the elopocalypse22:15
KotCzarnywhat normal company outsources internal mail22:16
KotCzarny;)22:16
FatPhilI'm sure there are reasons. Cost-cutting being the name of one.22:17
KotCzarnywhich is a pity. i wonder if m$ at least got their money back22:17
FatPhilyou can discharge staff if you outsource22:17
FatPhiland shareholders love cutting staff22:17
FatPhilgood for shareholder value22:18
KotCzarnynot good if in the long run they lose moneys22:20
FatPhilI liiiiike money, do you liiiike money?22:21
FatPhil(idiocracy pseudo-quote)22:21
KotCzarny'..do you like losing all moneys you've gained??'22:22
KotCzarnynity nite. bed time22:24
sicelowhat normal company outsources internal mail >> outlook 365. many do this nowadays. not sure it the thing is still called outlook 365, but MS recommends companies to use that instead of Exchange nowadays22:24
FatPhilexactly. not worth having interlan expertise, as internal expertise = cost22:25
FatPhils/lan/nal/22:25
infobotFatPhil meant: exactly. not worth having internal expertise, as internal expertise = cost22:25
FatPhilwhen we detected out patches were being mangles, out of the 30 core core team sais "we can set up our own mail server"22:26
FatPhilout=our, sorry still drinking22:26
FatPhilno point correcting errors, there are more22:26
sixwheeledbeastoffice 365 isnt it?23:27
bencohmmmh, I'm actually wondering whether extra-cauldrons (the build automation) works ...23:29
bencohI uploaded a package to drop.maemo.org, I can download it back from there23:30
bencohbut it hasn't trigger any build process yet23:30
bencoh(I uploaded it 5h ago)23:30
bencohthat's .... odd23:30
bencohit doesn't show in https://www.mail-archive.com/extras-cauldron-builds@garage.maemo.org/ either23:31
bencohxes: if you have access to cauldron / have any idea how it is supposed to work, could you please check what's wrong with it?23:31
bencoh(oh and, I uploaded it in the right order, ie .dsc last)23:32
sixwheeledbeastI recall it was a cronjob every hour?23:37

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