libera/#maemo/ Thursday, 2020-07-23

untakenstupidnicis there a way i could use new software on freemantle?00:25
sicelowhat do you mean by 'new software'?00:27
siceloa lot of libraries in Fremantle are quite old now, so a lot of new software is most likely not going to run very easily. there are possibly ways to get around that in some cases, e.g. ld_preloading, chroots, but again, it all depends on what software you're actually hoping to run00:28
untakenstupidnictor, mocp, ncurses, command line tools, misc libs00:31
untakenstupidnicsicelo?02:04
drathir_toruntakenstupidnic: personally used alarm staff in past but if stil works such "trick" no idea...05:47
bencohuntakenstupidnic: if you really want to stick with fremantle then your best bet is probably a chroot10:11
bencohand/or building everything yourself to an alternate path and playing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH/LD_PRELOAD/-Wl,-rpath10:11
bencohyou could even build a full toolchain to be installed in /alt (or whatever), have your own ld.so there that will only look in /alt, and build all your stuff against it10:13
untakenstupidnicthe reason i want to stick with freemantle is that leste seems to drain battery faster than freemantle+power kernel, and it doesn't seem to be very good in battery management.10:46
untakenstupidnicbencoh: does chrooting to the leste SD cart work? i couldn't figure out how to mount it yesterday10:47
bencohI suppose it would work10:47
bencohI don't see any reason for it not to work10:47
bencohWell, you might have a hard time with some graphic stuff, but it should work overall10:47
bencoh(I don't know what will happen with egl stuff, but it might work as well)10:48
bencohSame with dbus-dependant stuff, you might need to work a bit10:48
Wizzupuntakenstupidnic: leste only draws more power because we haven't put more effort into that10:49
Wizzuphttps://twitter.com/maemoleste/status/122626599798164684910:49
WizzupIt'll improve, but currently it's not great, but we know we can make it better.10:50
bencohWizzup: I wouldn't call 20mA "not great", to be honest10:53
bencohadmittedly it draws only half of it in idle when running maemo5, but still10:54
bencohit's quite a nice feat :)10:54
untakenstupidnicWizzup: nice10:56
Wizzupbencoh: point is mostly that what is shown on the photo there is not what leste currently draws when you flash an iamge10:56
Wizzups/iamge/image/10:56
infobotWizzup meant: bencoh: point is mostly that what is shown on the photo there is not what leste currently draws when you flash an image10:56
bencohah10:56
bencohI see :)10:57
Wizzupwhat needs to happen to build latest mainline, see that it still works with minimal modules loaded and off mode enabled, and then start loading modules and see what pm blockers are10:58
Wizzupand *then* look at powervr and see how that behaves with off mode10:58
Maxdamantus20:47:29 < bencoh> I don't see any reason for it not to work10:59
MaxdamantusWhat about glibc/kernel compatibility?10:59
bencohoh, right10:59
bencohyou'd need to patch the libc10:59
bencohmybad10:59
bencohI forgot about that one10:59
MaxdamantusThat's the main annoyance for me.10:59
MaxdamantusShould probably get around to trying to patch libc sometime.11:00
* Maxdamantus still just uses a wheezy chroot.11:00
bencohthere was a really simple patch around11:00
bencohat least back when they dropped support11:01
untakenstupidnicWizzup: if i were you, i would focus primarily on maemo hardware along with some simple devices such as RPI, because there are several "mobile linux"es but not so many "maemo revival"s11:01
bencohmain targets are n900 and droid4 (because it's like a more powerful n900 replacement) anyway11:03
bencoh(you could add the pinephone as of late, but...)11:03
untakenstupidnicfor myself, when i chose n900 over finding an android phone that could run lineageOS, i was thinking that maemo is still there and update; so i could do all the linux stuff on a device that fully supported11:03
Wizzupuntakenstupidnic: right, the omap devices (n900, droid4) have the 'prime' support11:04
Wizzupbut the n900 powervr kernel port we maintain ourselves (or opposed to others also working on it)11:04
Wizzupand it's a pain to move it over, and we haven't for a few releases in the hopes that we could jump on the newer driver11:05
untakenstupidnicbencoh: a droid4 port seems to be not worth much more than a proof-of-concept11:05
Wizzupbut that makes this pm debugging harder, since I don't want to test it only on 5.1 only to find that some regressions were fixed on 5.7x11:05
Wizzupuntakenstupidnic: uh what :D11:05
Wizzupwhat makes you say that11:05
bencohuntakenstupidnic: hmm, I'd say it's more than a PoC these days11:05
bencohadmittedly you still can't use it as a phone11:05
bencohbut err, leste is missing a phone UI anyway11:06
bencohso that goes for n900 as well11:06
untakenstupidnicwell, somebody in #maemo-leste said they are no widespread11:06
bencohwidespread, as in ?11:06
untakenstupidnicfindable, sold much.11:06
bencohyou can buy droid4 from ebay11:06
bencohit might be a bit more expensive than a few years ago, but still11:07
sicelo(uvos) :-)11:07
untakenstupidnicno ebay here, not feasible in many places.11:07
untakenstupidnicsicelo: :)11:07
siceloanyway, droid 4 sort of has better support now tbh - i have calls (and very silly ui for that)11:08
bencohsicelo: unicsy?11:09
sicelon900 calls are hard (the voice part), and bt isn't working (in fact i must write the maintainers about it)11:09
bencoh(or whatever the spelling for pavel's UI is)11:09
untakenstupidnici mean the support that goes to non-'prime' platforms, still costs time and doesn't bring much advantage to the community11:10
sicelobencoh: i made my own python thing, (ab)using hildon dialog. but yes, unicsy should do as well11:10
untakenstupidnicyou could have the maemo hildon on other distros i think11:10
bencoh?11:11
untakenstupidnicinstead, trying to for example bringing new possibilities to the Nseries tablet does. the 'linux for phones' people don't particularly care about maemo, so maemo people should care for it and leave the general task of 'making good linux for phones' to other projects having more community.11:15
untakenstupidnicand they in turn would benefit from the improved support for n900 you have provided11:16
sicelobencoh: https://pasteboard.co/JiXvfkA.jpg11:16
bencohsicelo: looks good enough :D11:16
untakenstupidnicbut now much time in various projects is spent on achieving one same thing and goes to waste11:17
bencohsicelo: does "ignore" closes the window and let you work? :]11:17
bencoh-s11:17
sicelountakenstupidnic: i think you're mistaken11:17
sicelobencoh: yes :-)11:18
sicelocall is not answered nor rejected11:18
bencohand you don't have to wait for the caller to give up  ... awesome :>11:19
Wizzupsicelo: cool, how is the audio? does it work with speakerphone only?11:22
Wizzupand does it vibrate the device?11:22
untakenstupidnicbencoh: how could i patch glibc?11:22
siceloYes @ speakerphone. i haven't had success with normal speaker or earphones ... then again, i haven't done a lot of testing either .. life gets in the way :-)11:23
bencohAssuming you want a debian/devuan chroot, you'd need to download the source package and build it for arm using dpkg-buildpackage11:24
sicelovibration - no. i don't typically use vibration ever, even on other phones11:24
bencoh(after patching it accordlingly, but I don't have a patch available right off the bat)11:24
Wizzupsicelo: ok, I'm in interesting in trying to use this. Adding vibration I think would be sweet. It's only two dbus calls away11:24
Wizzup(start and stop pattern)11:25
WizzupI basically only use vibration11:25
siceloyes should be easy. even this is dbus+python2 (for hildon module)11:25
bencohsame (vibration)11:25
bencohand yeah, it's simple and well documented on wiki11:25
Wizzupand works now on leste ;)11:27
Wizzupsicelo: there is also https://github.com/DigitalHERMES/rhizo-dialer11:34
Wizzupremind me, do you use telepathy or ofono11:34
sicelomine's ofono. i wanted to look at telepathy, but then time became an issue.11:36
siceloit's still on my to do however11:37
WizzupI've been deciphering all the rtcom stuff and how calls and smses get logged in fremantle, so that we can just open the same fremantle db / format and log in the same way, and that also includes the telepathy setup, but it's complicated11:39
WizzupI hope to learn more during my holiday11:39
bencohWizzup: didn't you tell me at some point that part of it was standard / usable by empathy11:43
bencohor did I miss something?11:43
Wizzupyes, it is, but some of the maemo specific stuff is not11:43
Wizzupand in general TP is kind of simple, but there aren't a lot of 'examples'11:44
bionicpup64_2990how could i disable the TV output and have normal sound played from the headphone in freemantle?15:59
sixwheeledbeastIt is controlled automatically15:59
untakenstupidnicwell it plays a weird buzz that changes whenever something on display changes16:00
sixwheeledbeastlikely some OMTP vs AHJ compatibility issue16:01
KotCzarnyim 100% sure we already talked about this16:01
KotCzarny;)16:01
sixwheeledbeasthmm16:01
untakenstupidnichow could i solve that? there was unicys_demo on leste16:01
sixwheeledbeasta crossover adaptor or normal headphones without a mic16:02
untakenstupidnicKotCzarny: yes, but i thought there needs to be some special headphone for it to work back then, but now i know it could work by software alone16:03
KotCzarnyit can be home made from cheap parts available everywhere16:03
KotCzarnyreally16:03
bencoherrr, wait, what are you connecting to your phone?16:04
bencoha ttrs jack?16:04
KotCzarnyheadphones16:04
KotCzarnysamsung headphones16:04
KotCzarny:)16:04
bencohthen omtp vs whatever as six.wheeledbeast said, yeah16:05
bencohand you can buy an adaptor16:05
bencoh(no need to craft it)16:05
untakenstupidnicnot samsung but the things you find everywhere16:05
bencohyeah, I had the same issue with sennheiser16:06
bencoh(I didn't bother finding a solution though, I had it replaced for another product)16:07
untakenstupidnicThe problem is walking and searching long enough to find a store that is closed due to recession and covid-19 AND has an idea what is either OMTP or AHJ or has nokia headphones16:07
KotCzarnybuy online?16:07
untakenstupidnicis not closed*16:07
bencohyou should buy the adapter online, yeah16:08
KotCzarnyor just cannibalize some old electronics to get parts16:08
bencohit will just be painful otherwise16:08
untakenstupidnicKotCzarny: what online? i searched 'OMTP to AHJ adapter' in my language and nothing comes16:10
KotCzarnywhat language is that?16:10
untakenstupidnicpersian16:11
KotCzarnyho hum16:12
untakenstupidnicisn't there unicys_demo for freemantle?16:12
KotCzarnydo you have ANY electronics parts stores?16:13
untakenstupidnicYes, but it potentially means walking kilometers for nothing.16:14
KotCzarnythen in my opinion you can make the adapter yourself16:15
KotCzarnyits just a simple swap16:15
untakenstupidnicyes, but an alsa config file is much easier16:16
KotCzarnyis it alsa configurable?16:16
untakenstupidnici say it totally worked in leste.16:17
sixwheeledbeast It's a hardware limitation if its an issue with the TRRS type, software isn't going to help.16:19
bencohsixwheeledbeast: if he just want to use the headphones, then it might somehow work by disabling the tv-out thing16:21
sixwheeledbeastit's possible leste didn't detect it as a "headset" for whatever reason.16:21
bencohor that, yeah16:21
untakenstupidnicnow we get to the first question:16:22
untakenstupidnichow could i disable the TV output and have normal sound played from the headphone in freemantle?16:22
sixwheeledbeastwell there is some sys/ file that sets the av mode type with numbers from 1-4 you could try forcing it and making it read only 444.16:23
bencohI suspect one of the male contacts is physically connected to two internal contacts16:23
bencoh(maybe16:24
sixwheeledbeastIf the TRRS is not to spec then it could be confused.16:24
sixwheeledbeastit will not be in AV mode without detecting a 75ohm input on the video line AFAIK. it normally defaults to headphones16:25
bencohI had a similar experience with a sennheiser (mic+headphones) set, I suppose the TRRS was following the spec16:26
bencohI don't remember how it was detected though16:26
bencoh(there was some odd noise coming out if the headphones)16:27
sicelountakenstupidnic: software won't 'fix' the headphone issue.  unicsy_demo is totally unnecessary on Fremantle16:37
untakenstupidnici don't what you mean by fixing. i could hear music from it in leste, and i want to do that this side.16:38
sicelomaybe show us a picture of your headphone's jack16:39
untakenstupidnica normal jack that would play sound in leste... but ok16:47
untakenstupidnicsicelo: like this https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.Cbnj1sU-_rEnE5QfDfVQkgHaF7%26pid%3DApi&f=116:49
untakenstupidnicbut whatever the problem is it, or whether you call it a fix or not, i want to have the thing that happened in leste using alsactl happen. idk why you insist that is a hardware problem when some software has done that.16:51
KotCzarnyit can probably be treated by both ways16:57
untakenstupidnicnow i would be thankful if anyone has ideas on my first question.16:58
bencohWell if anything, I'd start by checking out what is actually missing in leste regarding the jack connector16:58
bencohit's probably something that is autodetected on fremantle and still missing on leste16:59
bencoh(be it jack detection, tv-out, automatic headphone/mic switch, whatever)16:59
untakenstupidnicwell i take that for granted. i asked how to disable tv-output.16:59
KotCzarnywhat was the wiki page on cmdline tricks for n900?17:00
KotCzarnysomething something command control17:00
KotCzarny~power17:02
infobotrumour has it, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption17:02
KotCzarnyhmm.17:02
KotCzarny~cmdline17:02
KotCzarny~hacks17:02
sicelophone control :)17:02
KotCzarny~phoencontrol17:02
KotCzarny~phonecontrol17:02
infobotfrom memory, phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control17:02
sixwheeledbeast/sys/devices/platform/nokia-av/autodetect17:05
KotCzarnyswb: maybe you can add it to the above page? assuming its controllable, not just status17:05
KotCzarnybugs.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate17:06
KotCzarnyThe certificate expired on July 12, 2020, 12:18 PM. The current time is July 23, 2020, 5:06 PM.17:06
KotCzarnywho is cert master of maemo?17:06
sixwheeledbeastI have not idea if it's controllable it's a hacky suggestion I have a similar read only hack for other files like the camera button etc17:06
sixwheeledbeast~beasttweaks17:06
infobotfrom memory, beasttweaks is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Sixwheeledbeast/Scripts17:06
KotCzarnyhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=636017:07
sixwheeledbeastbmo has cert issues?17:09
sicelofwiw, tv out works in Leste. maybe, just maybe, the op may have to force fremantle to mute the mic (at least as far as i understand the ahj vs. omtp thing ... only difference is location of mic vs. ground)17:09
sixwheeledbeastexpired on the 12th17:09
KotCzarnyhttps://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-12-23.log.html17:15
siceloalso, in Fremantle, my incompatible Samsung earphones are working, and I can listen to music, but there's something odd about it :)17:16
KotCzarnyhttps://github.com/pali/linux-n900/blob/v2.6.28-nokia/drivers/misc/nokia-av.c#L28017:16
KotCzarnythere is a source17:16
KotCzarnyso i guess it can be hacked around17:17
siceloi still don't believe it can :)17:17
siceloECI is just handling the buttons17:17
sicelountakenstupidnic: do you need to use the mic? or you just have it because the earphones have it? if you don't need to use it (i am not convinced it'll work with either Leste or Fremantle anyway), just tape it down in 'depressed' position17:18
untakenstupidnicno. i doubt if it has any mics on it at all.17:19
sicelomusic is proper quality on my samsung earphone if i depress the mic (answer/hangup) button (which makes sense, of course since it's shorting the mic, and giving us proper ground)17:21
siceloif there's no mic, then why have 4 contacts?17:21
untakenstupidnicplus, there is only one pushbutton on the whole thing with nothing indicating what is it for.17:23
untakenstupidnicsicelo: crappy hardware. perhaps they didn't have more descriptive jacks17:24
sicelothat's the button for answer/hangup == mic. press it while playing music on your N900 with Fremantle - it should play with better quality for you as well, if i'm understanding this right17:25
untakenstupidnicsicelo:thanks, it works.17:39
KotCzarny:)17:50
bencoh:)17:51
bencoh~admins17:51
bencoh~techhadmin17:51
bencoherr, what was it again17:51
sicelo~techstaff17:51
infobotmethinks techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/17:51
bencohah, thanks17:51
bencohKotCzarny: I guess it should go to techstaff@ then17:52
drathir_torsicelo: if god remember there are switch plugs trrs ts/trs ?20:46
siceloyes, there are. the OP can't find those things however20:50
drathir_torsicelo: oh got it... still the most crazy is them dont clearly state type in spec of device...20:59
sicelowho's "them"?20:59
sixwheeledbeastEverything has switched to AHJ now thanks to apple... :sigh:21:00
drathir_torsicelo: manufacters/producers who create datasheet for devices...21:01
sicelolol21:01
sicelodrathir_tor: when N900 was released, nearly everyone used the same standard, so there was no need to specify it21:01
sixwheeledbeastHaving the hot of the microphone on the braid of the cable sure makes sense from an audio quality POV :rolleyes:21:01
sicelolater, everyone used Apple's standard as swb mentions  .. so again no need to specify since everything is that standard :)21:02
drathir_torsicelo: yea in past no problem biggest worry mic/non moc which in most cases work just fine... now is pure madness and guess with type used...21:03
drathir_tormoc/mic*21:03
sixwheeledbeasteven things like modmics use the AHJ now.21:07
sixwheeledbeastPS4 controller21:07
sixwheeledbeastYou'd never have known there was a logical open standard21:08
drathir_torand You end with that better headphones and 50/50 chance causing metalic sound...21:17
drathir_torsixwheeledbeast: yea common thing would be the best...21:18
sixwheeledbeastwell that depends if it's common but poorly designed23:38

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