| sixwheeledbeast | ~boot-process | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| infobot | i heard boot-process is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5_boot_process | 00:01 |
| CatButts | `ELF | 00:03 |
| CatButts | ~elf | 00:04 |
| infobot | methinks elf is the Executable and Linking Format .. it is a Binary format used by System V Release 4 Unix. It is also the prefered binary format in Linux. or the little people. There are three kind of elven: Noldor, Sindar and Wood elven | 00:04 |
| CatButts | in context of compiling software, an elf .so can be both linked against dynamically, or statically brought into the program, yes? | 00:04 |
| CatButts | so, in windows terms, a windows .dll and a compiler lib | 00:06 |
| Maxdamantus | ".so" specifically means "shared object", so it's only meant to be used for dynamic linking. | 00:16 |
| Maxdamantus | libraries that are meant to be statically linked normally end in ".o", and they're usually packaged in some archive file that end in ".a" | 00:17 |
| Maxdamantus | I think Windows has that distinction too, where static libraries are ".lib" or something. | 00:20 |
| CatButts | aha, so, .so don't double as "dlls" and libs | 00:21 |
| Maxdamantus | They are libs, but they're meant to be linked dynamically, not statically. | 00:21 |
| CatButts | so, just the dll part | 00:22 |
| Maxdamantus | Sure, where "dll" afaik stands for "dynamically linked library" | 00:23 |
| * Maxdamantus doesn't know too much about Windows usage nowadays. | 00:24 | |
| CatButts | I'm kinda drunk, I should continue tomorrow | 00:24 |
| sixwheeledbeast | comparing linux and windows like that is difficult as they do that stuff completely differently. | 00:44 |
| sixwheeledbeast | Package management and dependencies mean the concept of a DLL isn't a thing. | 00:52 |
| CatButts | what's package management? | 00:53 |
| * CatButts loads everything relative to current directory | 00:53 | |
| CatButts | *relative to application's executing directory | 00:54 |
| CatButts | that's win9x mentality | 00:55 |
| CatButts | hue | 00:55 |
| CatButts | with advent of NT, you gots things like "documents and settings" per-user profile folder doohickey thing | 00:56 |
| CatButts | or whatever they decided to rename it to vista+ | 00:56 |
| CatButts | and now, "program files" folder is read-only(you can write with special privileges) | 00:57 |
| CatButts | as if to discourage the win9x mentality | 00:57 |
| CatButts | loads-a-bollocks, if ya ask me | 00:59 |
| CatButts | linux mentality resembles NT one, I suppose, but is waaay more compartimentalized | 01:04 |
| CatButts | "this part of the application goes into bin X, this one in bin Y, and this in Z" | 01:05 |
| CatButts | the config, the main application, and whatever .so it may depend on | 01:06 |
| CatButts | in NT, the separation is partial, with each application(say if built with Qt) having duplicates of same dlls in each appfolder | 01:07 |
| CatButts | but settings get put in dedicated place | 01:07 |
| CatButts | I am alligned to win9x mentality, where app and its folder of gubbins are self-sufficient | 01:08 |
| Maxdamantus | Kind of like gobolinux afaik. | 01:13 |
| luke-jr | sixwheeledbeast: lolwut no | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | .so = .dll | 06:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | oh? seems i misunderstand then? | 11:34 |
| sicelo | CatButts: actually the windows and linux way here are mostly the same. you just 'notice' the .so situation on linux because most of the dlls on windows are part of the base system (shipped by MS). but they're there, and equally important | 12:46 |
| sicelo | "this part of the application goes into bin X, this one in bin Y, and this in Z" - this also happens on windows too. hence when you uninstall an application that installed extra dlls, it typically notifies you if it seems those dlls are used by other applications as well | 12:48 |
| sicelo | please help me with building kernel for N900. it seems to all be going well, until i get this, https://paste.debian.net/1176726/ | 16:57 |
| bencoh | eww | 17:07 |
| bencoh | is that leste or maemo5/KP kernel? | 17:07 |
| sicelo | mainline :) | 17:09 |
| bencoh | old toochain maybe? | 17:09 |
| bencoh | toolchain/compiler | 17:10 |
| bencoh | s/old/broken/ even | 17:10 |
| sicelo | i would like to think the compiler is fine. most likely i have bad kernel config and/or sources, since i might have been merging stuff wrong :p | 17:18 |
| sicelo | let me try this first, https://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg2349834.html | 17:19 |
| sicelo | if that doesn't work, guess i need to try a simple config first | 17:20 |
| sicelo | nice. looks like there was no conclusion there. will go with Dmitry's workaround, although it seems to not have been the best option | 17:25 |
| sicelo | ah, looks like final and accepted solution was https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/patches/viewpatch.php?id=9030/1 . but seems https://www.armlinux.org.uk/developer/patches/viewpatch.php?id=9018/2 works too, and since i'm lazy and just want/need something booting, i'll go with the latter for now | 17:31 |
| sicelo | CC arch/arm/boot/compressed/decompress.o | 17:35 |
| sicelo | wrong paste | 17:35 |
| sicelo | anyway, seems a kernel built | 17:36 |
| bencoh | did it break recently? | 17:38 |
| bencoh | oh and ... is leste kernel thumb2 as well? | 17:39 |
| sicelo | yes, it's thumb2. | 17:43 |
| sicelo | leste has kernel 5.1 for N900 yet. however, i know fmg built 5.9 very recently and didn't get the issue. no idea what the differences are | 17:44 |
| bencoh | that's the question I was about to ask ;) | 17:44 |
| sicelo | unfortunately i'm a out of my depth with this stuff - guess i must still learn how cherry-picking works. i'm totally confused about the kernel branches i'm tracking :p | 17:47 |
| CatButts | How do I deal with recursive dependencies in GCC in automagic fashion? | 18:11 |
| CatButts | for example, for a gtk hello world, I start with -lgtk-x11-2.0 -lglib-2.0 | 18:12 |
| CatButts | but then those depend on other libs, which depend on other libs, which... and so on | 18:12 |
| CatButts | I found | 18:12 |
| CatButts | -Wl,--start-group -lfirst -lsecond -Wl,--end-group | 18:13 |
| CatButts | but I don't think it does what I expect it to | 18:13 |
| CatButts | attempt to do this manually is nothing short of insanity | 18:13 |
| sicelo | mmm, so u-boot finds the kernel i built, but nothing happens after i see "starting kernel". after some time, maybe 1 min, device turns off. | 19:21 |
| * CatButts barfs on the carpet | 19:40 | |
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