ham5urg | Is there any ARM-tablet out there onto which I can install Devuan? | 01:39 |
---|---|---|
gnarface | pinetab? | 01:46 |
ham5urg | Out of stock. | 01:49 |
gnarface | their stuff is always out of stock, you gotta get on the waiting list | 01:52 |
ham5urg | ok | 01:58 |
ham5urg | I'm watching a Mobian, looks like it is running without Systemd. | 02:01 |
gnarface | it might be, i don't know | 02:01 |
ham5urg | Phosh looks good. | 02:01 |
gnarface | the devuan images will probably boot on it | 02:02 |
gnarface | the pine64 ones | 02:02 |
gnarface | with little or no tweaking | 02:02 |
ham5urg | https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PinePhone_Software_Releases#Maemo_Leste is a Devuan. | 02:04 |
ham5urg | But Phosh is a must as I can see | 02:08 |
lamermaster | hello, how to format ext2 with bad sector check, for removal of bad sects? | 08:02 |
gnarface | lamermaster: check the man page for mkfs.ext2 ("man mkfs.ext2") | 08:08 |
lamermaster | I found something ... like with -cc or to use badblocks: https://forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=44893# | 08:12 |
gnarface | lamermaster: it's the same thing basically; mkfs calls badblocks if you ask it to | 08:14 |
lamermaster | it seems to work with -c /dev/XXX, it will take long actually. 0.04% done... | 08:15 |
gnarface | that is expected | 08:18 |
lamermaster | does ext3 or ext4 give faster badblock removal? | 08:18 |
gnarface | no, they're identical | 08:18 |
gnarface | they all use the same badblocks tool | 08:18 |
lamermaster | is there a badblock on ext4, I believed that linux removed it... | 08:19 |
gnarface | it should still be there | 08:19 |
lamermaster | so far, I remember that badblock was only for ext2 and smart tools utils does this instead on ext4. | 08:19 |
gnarface | you can use smartmon probably but you'd have to be already running it to catch the bad blocks afaik | 08:20 |
gnarface | there's no other badblocks tool that any linux filesystem used | 08:20 |
gnarface | and there isn't anything you can do to make it faster | 08:20 |
gnarface | you can get faster disks that's it | 08:20 |
lamermaster | thanks | 08:21 |
ham5urg | Has anyone got Devuan onto some Arm64 or Armel machine? Can you tell me the specific hardware? And which bootloader is needed? | 14:42 |
ham5urg | Everywhere I read about RaspberryPi, is the hardware supported by open drivers? | 14:45 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | probably u-boot | 14:47 |
ham5urg | I would like to compile a Devuan if there is any Android-tablet with open/supported hardware/modules. Is there any chance for such? | 14:49 |
DonkeyHotei | not really | 14:51 |
sixwheeledbeast | pine64 stuff? could maybe run maemo leste for example? | 14:57 |
DonkeyHotei | but that's not a tablet iirc | 15:02 |
ham5urg | I was reading about Googles Pixel C | 15:08 |
ham5urg | Found this: https://github.com/denysvitali/linux-on-pixel-c | 15:11 |
fsmithred | ham5urg, did you check these lists? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3351 | 15:15 |
ham5urg | Crazy world where no free driver/modules are available for mainstream hardware... | 15:18 |
sixwheeledbeast | pine have a tablet afaik | 15:27 |
DPA | I'm using devuan on my librem 5, (devkit and chestnut phone). | 15:57 |
DPA | It works pretty well, although there are still a few things I need to fix. I'm currently trying to get X11s glamor (GPU acceleration) working properly. | 15:57 |
DPA | I've written some scripts to build images for it here: https://github.com/Daniel-Abrecht/librem5-image-builder | 15:57 |
DPA | As for laptops, the MNT Reform 2 uses the same SOC, so you could probably get that running on there too just by changing the kernel to the one adjusted for that hardware. | 15:57 |
DPA | It looks like the scripts for building the MNT reform kernel are here: https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform-system-image/src/branch/reform2-redo/reform2-imx8mq/mkkernel.sh | 15:57 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | nice | 16:28 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | what DE/WM | 16:28 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | phosh? | 16:28 |
buZz | ham5urg: there's a bunch of arm devices for which actually open drivers exist | 16:29 |
buZz | ham5urg: gl finding them though ;P if you're already suffering at learning a bootloader, you'll have a horrible time figuring out the drivers to use | 16:30 |
* buZz running 5.8.0 (but arch) on a samsung chromebook 2 (XE503C32) right now | 16:30 | |
DPA | _I3^RELATIVISM: Usually xfce if I use it as a desktop, or my own WM otherwise: https://github.com/Daniel-Abrecht/dpaw/tree/master/wm | 16:39 |
DPA | Phosh I would have to compile first, or I could probably use a version from an existing repo such as the mobian repos, but it would definitly work if I did that. | 16:39 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | good | 16:41 |
user___ | Hi. Weekend rant: I discovered after installing Beowulf after Wheezy (ha big jump) that the audio output is no longer as loud as it was. I use a custom made speaker and amp, it was made to work with the normal output volume of the PC, by me. | 20:28 |
mason | user___: If you're using ALSA, go into alsamixer and make sure both main volume *and* pcm are up. | 20:29 |
user___ | So I later noticed that pulse mixer / volume control has 100% volume and then you can take it beyond that to 150%, +10-11dB . Wow someone did magic on my hardware (which is 12 years old) and found a way to make it go to 15? | 20:29 |
mason | Oh, Pulse. | 20:29 |
user___ | No, he did not. He lowered the "100%" to 100%-10dB which is about 10 times less loud. Small wonder the speaker no longer performs? | 20:30 |
user___ | And you know who wrote pulse? Poettering. | 20:30 |
mason | Well aware. | 20:30 |
user___ | Give me one reason for not downgrading to ALSA now? | 20:30 |
mason | And Avahi, and elogind. | 20:30 |
mason | user___: I've heard that some Steam games won't work with it directly. Haven't seen it yet myself. | 20:30 |
user___ | Oh, and, in tcl snack (audio control package for tcl), I can't see or switch input sources using the ::mixer and ::audio normal commands in snack, which work in alsa | 20:31 |
mason | bbiab | 20:31 |
user___ | AND xoscope is still compiled without ALSA as it was in ascii | 20:31 |
golinux | What about elogind? That comes from gentoo | 20:31 |
user___ | So it can't use the provided faux alsa/oss /dev/dsp | 20:31 |
user___ | elogind is not running here, avahi was killed on install | 20:31 |
user___ | Could we make a list of Poetteringed stuff so we can reduce the surprizes to a minimum? | 20:32 |
user___ | Oh yes and pulse needs that rtkdaemon which is also by P. and I removed it because I have other priorities than millisecond accurate audio which is 10dB quieter than it should be | 20:32 |
golinux | elongind has nothing to do with Lennart | 20:33 |
user___ | That man should have a chaperone online all the time, watching everything he does (breaks) | 20:33 |
user___ | Now, any reason to stay on pulse and not go alsa? | 20:33 |
user___ | I read once bluetooth audio is pulse / jack only. No bt audio on alsa. Correct? | 20:34 |
golinux | Take you rants to #debianfork please | 20:34 |
golinux | If you have a support question this is the place. | 20:34 |
mason | golinux: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Elogind FWIW. It explains what it is and where it's from. | 20:34 |
mason | Luckily most things are fine using consolekit instead. | 20:35 |
user___ | So in reality the -10dB faux 100% volume in pulse is four times less loud, not ten. But you get it | 20:35 |
golinux | I look at elogind as a poettering vaccine | 20:35 |
brocashelm | ^ | 20:36 |
golinux | time for food. | 20:36 |
brocashelm | ^^ | 20:36 |
brocashelm | same, eating rn | 20:36 |
user___ | Has anyone else switched away from pulse to alsa here, on Beowulf? Happy? Reasons? | 20:36 |
brocashelm | yes, but i did this a long time ago already on a different debian-based distro. alsa is blissful and just works | 20:37 |
user___ | agree. I did the pulse to alsa switch on ascii. | 20:38 |
brocashelm | apulse is there for things like firefox | 20:38 |
brocashelm | i'm using ceres and loving it | 20:39 |
user___ | apulse is the alsa faker in pulse? | 20:39 |
brocashelm | apulse is to emulate pulse on alsa | 20:40 |
mason | brocashelm: Debian packages Firefox to use ALSA directly. | 20:40 |
mason | No need to apulse there. | 20:40 |
brocashelm | mason: nice | 20:41 |
user___ | how did elogind-daemon get onto my system?! | 20:42 |
user___ | I see inittab is configured in the usual way | 20:42 |
user___ | Do we need elogind? | 20:43 |
user___ | I am nervous about the potential to "inhibit shutdown or reboot". The idea is to be ABLE to do that in an emergency, without travelling 2500km if possible. | 20:43 |
user___ | where does elogind enter the picture of login on a init /sysv based beowulf exactly? | 20:44 |
mason | user___: You can use consolekit instead, or depending on your environment, you can do without any of it, although it takes some surgery. | 20:44 |
user___ | /etc/init.d/elogind ... | 20:44 |
mason | user___: install aptitude, "aptitude why elogind", and pick your path to adventure. | 20:44 |
user___ | I think I had/have consolekit on ascii | 20:44 |
mason | Yes. | 20:44 |
user___ | I have aptitude | 20:44 |
mason | Also, as you're doing your surgery, remember that you can apt --no-install-recommends to pare it down maximally. | 20:45 |
mason | I think you'll find openssh-server recommending on one or the other. | 20:45 |
mason | s/on one/one/ | 20:45 |
user___ | where do I put in the "aptitude why elogind" ? | 20:46 |
mason | user___: Don't try to get rid of libelogind0 though. That's going to take some repackaging of core packages before it can be done safely. | 20:46 |
mason | user___: Command line. | 20:46 |
user___ | wow. The rot has reached the core. | 20:46 |
user___ | I need to read up on that "inhibiting shutdown/reboot/forced logouts" | 20:46 |
mason | user___: How you do that will depend entirely on whether you stick with elogind or not, so make that decision first. | 20:47 |
brocashelm | for me, it pulled libpam-elogind, which was a result of policykit-1, which was a result of synaptic (the gui package manager) | 20:48 |
user___ | I need the above clarified 100%. The way it looks now, a randomly installed package later may decide to tell elogind to not allow the machine to be rebooted / shut down remotely. | 20:48 |
user___ | policykit and consolekit and so on are cancer on the scale of systemd | 20:48 |
mason | user___: Right, the way systemd works is to let you set up inhibitors for various events. | 20:48 |
user___ | There is no real reason for them | 20:48 |
user___ | Violating the unix access control and security model every day, that's what they are | 20:49 |
mason | Well. Except that lots of software builds in that stuff now, so you have to decide what you're willing to tolerate. | 20:49 |
user___ | I assume openbsd has no systemd and never will? | 20:49 |
user___ | mason: one builds some shim lib and lives with it. | 20:49 |
mason | bbiab anyway - killing zombies with my wife | 20:50 |
user___ | :) | 20:50 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | freebsd uses openrc if not wrong | 20:50 |
mason | FreeBSD uses FreeBSD's init and rc structure, not openrc. | 20:50 |
mason | Um... Forgetting the name. iXsystems' desktop variant used OpenRC. | 20:50 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | oh cheers for correction | 20:51 |
mason | pc-bsd-which-became-something-else | 20:51 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | Do you know what OpenbSD uses at the moment | 20:51 |
mason | Their own init/rc, which forked intact from NetBSD. | 20:51 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | oh ok anybody here ever wonder why CVS is still the choice for OpenBSD | 20:53 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | Im starting to research git and it seams quite exploitable | 20:54 |
mason | _I3^RELATIVISM: Best to ask in #openbsd. But in short, it still works just fine. | 20:54 |
mason | bbiab | 20:54 |
user___ | haha. https://github.com/reyk/systemd-openbsd | 20:54 |
Wonka | explain "exploitable"? | 20:54 |
user___ | _I3^RELATIVISM: Openbsd definitely does not use systemd | 20:54 |
Wonka | user___: WHY??!? | 20:54 |
user___ | Wonka: because some people like to be shot in the back from ambush... | 20:55 |
Wonka | why would one create such a project... | 20:55 |
user___ | come on, he left out all the good parts. emacs.service ... | 20:55 |
Wonka | which cannot be anything else than elaborate trolling | 20:55 |
Wonka | (no browser running atm, haven't looked at it) | 20:56 |
user___ | Wonka: that's exactly what it is. Read the .md file? | 20:56 |
Wonka | not yet. | 20:57 |
user___ | I have a patch suggestion for him already. It is missing the functionality of blocking shutdown or reboot randomly, and saying "I can't let you do that Dave" sometimes. | 20:57 |
Wonka | I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I cannot let you do that. | 20:57 |
user___ | <aside> maybe we can base devuan on slackware in the future, slax style. They are at 14.2 since 2016 and still no systemd. | 20:59 |
user___ | slack was my 1.5st linux (Lasermoon demo disk was 1st), the 1st I installed and also my 1st love. Still use it on servers which need zero maintaince (no budget). | 21:00 |
golinux | Please take off-support chatter to #debianfork | 21:01 |
user___ | we are done, it's just Saturday evening. | 21:01 |
user___ | the slackware suggestion was serious though. I know it won't happen. | 21:02 |
brocashelm | devuan is fine as it is. it's just as if debian never accepted being systemd'd. there are newbie-friendly slackware distros like slackel/salix, so no need | 21:04 |
user___ | has s6 been ever considered as a systemd-parts replacement? I do not realize whether it is suitable at all? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#s6 | 21:04 |
brocashelm | but yes, there is the #debianfork channel for this discussion | 21:05 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | the init system topic is pretty relevant ot this project | 21:07 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | given that there are 3 option | 21:07 |
user___ | are there any efforts under way to minimize further dependency on poettering spawn? pulse? elogind? other things? | 21:07 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | so dont agree with you sugestions brocashelm and golinux | 21:08 |
brocashelm | i'm not suggesting it. mods want to encourage devuan-specific discussion here and everything else go to #debianofftopic or #devuan-offtopic | 21:09 |
brocashelm | *#debianfork | 21:09 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | so I will but thequestion diferently. Which init system the devuan project prefers techcally and also in terms of licensing | 21:22 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and brocashelm yes you were sugesting | 21:22 |
brocashelm | if you want to be difficult, that is not my problem. take it up with the mods if you disagree | 21:29 |
brocashelm | it was in relation to the bsd talk before golinux chimed in | 21:29 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | not being dificult, please dont endolge your ego | 21:30 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and please read my comment | 21:30 |
brocashelm | ^ there you go again with the tone | 21:30 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | I was trying to say that although it was offtopic, the conversation evolved to one relevant for devuan | 21:31 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and if nobody elseis requesting space for a diferent question topic | 21:32 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | is not productive brocashelm to try to shut down such conversation | 21:32 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and if you consider a refutation to your supposed sugestion, "with the tone" then that is a diferent history | 21:33 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | which again I assume is a ego related issue | 21:35 |
brocashelm | you're telling me about having an ego and just spammed five lines in a row. anyway, take it up with the mods if you have an issue | 21:36 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | you seam to be the person having the issue here I just would apreciate not trying to shut tdown further conversations that might be important for this project | 21:38 |
brocashelm | take it up with the mods | 21:39 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and again now you proved it is actually a ego thing, lines of messages doesnt have any relation to ones ability to present ones argument | 21:40 |
brocashelm | take it up with the mods | 21:40 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | I know the easiest way to run from blame is with rpetition, but there is nothing to be taken to the mods just a try to present you my refutation to your action | 21:41 |
brocashelm | take it up with the mods | 21:41 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | which essenteally shut down an important conversaton | 21:41 |
brocashelm | ask them if they agree or disagree with what you're saying and that will be that | 21:42 |
brocashelm | so take it up with the mods | 21:42 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | not wasting any more of my time with you though | 21:42 |
* _I3^RELATIVISM is afk | 21:42 | |
brocashelm | you were the only one wasting your time :) | 21:42 |
user___ | phew so I was not :) | 21:43 |
fsmithred | holy shit, the reason we ask OT conversation be taken elsewhere is because some us read the scrollback for support question, and we prefer not to have to wade through a lot of OT conversation. | 21:45 |
user___ | fair enough. Sorry for the noise. Still, valid q: s6? ever considered as systemd almost replacement in devuan? | 21:46 |
fsmithred | yeah, someone is supposed to be working on 66, but I haven't heard anything about it recently. | 21:47 |
brocashelm | nice | 21:47 |
fsmithred | I did install s6 in one VM, but I have no idea what to do with it. | 21:47 |
user___ | from an overflight it looks like a candidate | 21:47 |
brocashelm | any plans for improving runit support? i remember you saying there weren't enough users yet | 21:47 |
fsmithred | the vision for the future is that all the init systems will be able to use or convert systemd service files | 21:48 |
user___ | ughh | 21:48 |
user___ | whose vision for the future? | 21:48 |
fsmithred | lotta people | 21:48 |
fsmithred | the service files are the best part of that whole mess | 21:48 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | why not just draw a exit strategy for the kernel instead of trying to comply with linux? | 21:48 |
brocashelm | i did get a good lol at the openbsd-systemd git | 21:49 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | fsmithred: | 21:49 |
* _I3^RELATIVISM is back | 21:49 | |
fsmithred | what do you mean exit strategy? | 21:49 |
brocashelm | wb ;) | 21:49 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | still stroking your egoI see | 21:49 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | fsmithred: like hyperbola did | 21:49 |
user___ | I am Really Worried about the capability of systemd / elogind lib linked apps installed later, being able to quell a remote commanded reboot or shutdown. This has got to be addressed. Is there any plan to keep an eye on these things? My policy neutering script from last week does something similar but it needs to be re-run every time something installs a new polkit policy | 21:49 |
fsmithred | I don't know what hyperbola did | 21:49 |
fsmithred | our goal is to provide debian without systemd | 21:50 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | using openBSD kernelfor instance | 21:50 |
fsmithred | sounds like more work | 21:50 |
user___ | without systemd and not without other things also contaminated? | 21:50 |
fsmithred | if it's a useful goal, someone should make a devuan derivative that does it. | 21:50 |
user___ | did you read my rant above about pulseaudio and where 10dB of loudness disappeared? | 21:50 |
brocashelm | nah, just laughing at the irony of the exchange | 21:50 |
user___ | there is iron in irony! | 21:51 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | fsmithred: https://www.hyperbola.info/news/announcing-hyperbolabsd-roadmap/ | 21:51 |
fsmithred | user___, no, I missed your PA question, and I probably don't have an answer. I just use alsa. Sometimes jack. | 21:51 |
user___ | fsmithred: at "Hi. Weekend rant: I discovered after installing" ... | 21:51 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | maybe once its done it will be a viable ooption for a project like devuan | 21:51 |
user___ | right, alsa then. On beowulf or moved on to ceres? | 21:52 |
brocashelm | i don't think devuan needs to be anything other than a systemd-less debian | 21:52 |
user___ | I think devuan needs to be a Poettering less debian. | 21:53 |
brocashelm | just don't install poetteringshit :) | 21:53 |
user___ | Eventually. Not that I have something against the guy but everything he touched or added seems to break at least two things. | 21:53 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | basically they are using OBSD codebased mergd with theyre own code base and licensed under GPLv3 to solve the issue with linux kernel current direction | 21:53 |
brocashelm | systemd is harder to get away from, though | 21:53 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | that is what i meant by exit strategy fsmithred | 21:53 |
fsmithred | _I3^RELATIVISM, check with us on that in another year | 21:54 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | sounds good | 21:54 |
fsmithred | or do it | 21:54 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | I know you have other goals before that | 21:54 |
fsmithred | I can tell you a couple ways to make live isos | 21:55 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | like FSDG etc,so totally understandable | 21:55 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | hopefully the linux kernel will correct its course but I find that rather unlikely. | 21:56 |
user___ | this is linux in general and pretty scary. https://www.theregister.com/2020/09/04/linux_kernel_flaws/ | 21:56 |
golinux | _I3^RELATIVISM: This is a support channel not a general discussion channel especially about systemd | 21:57 |
brocashelm | lol | 21:57 |
golinux | systemd can never be a topic for support here because it does not exist id Devuan | 21:57 |
golinux | id > in | 21:58 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | it is important to discuss it given that you use the linux krnel | 21:58 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | and sytem is being forced upon the linux kernel | 21:59 |
golinux | Don't push it | 21:59 |
golinux | Maybe you'd like a time out? | 21:59 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | so has I sayed before I do not agree with your suggestion | 21:59 |
golinux | You are not the one who has ops | 21:59 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | golinux: I do not appreciate either the wrong-full use of power or empty threats, so if that is the way you want to act I will gladly leave this room given that Im not interested in participating in censorship. so | 22:02 |
user___ | I forgot to mention that pavucontrol permits upping volume to 100% only not 150%. I am going ALSA tomorrow. | 22:02 |
golinux | Bye | 22:02 |
brocashelm | >channel has rules | 22:02 |
fsmithred | it's not important to discuss it here | 22:02 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | I would apreciate you let this important conversation continue and stop spamming | 22:02 |
brocashelm | >moderator enforces rules | 22:02 |
brocashelm | >accuse moderators of censorship | 22:02 |
brocashelm | um ok | 22:02 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | <_I3^RELATIVISM "it is important to discuss it gi"> ^ | 22:02 |
fsmithred | continue it in one of our OT channels, PLEASE | 22:02 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | <_I3^RELATIVISM "and sytem is being forced upon t"> ^ | 22:02 |
golinux | That is what #debianfork is for | 22:02 |
brocashelm | ok | 22:03 |
golinux | Your nonsense makes it harder for devs to read these logs to find important stuff that could make devuan better | 22:03 |
golinux | If you want to help devuan take it to #debianfork | 22:05 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | that shows a lack of awareness for what is to come, and how systemd will come as a default in the linux kernel. Hopefully my refutation will ignite an interest for this important topic. but after this inlogical position my interest for devuan projet has severely diminish. | 22:06 |
brocashelm | user___: alsa is very stable. if you use xfce, there is a panel plugin called xfce4-alsa-plugin that you can use in place of the pulseaudio plugin. it's not in debian's repositories, so you'd have to get the source. here's the thread on the forums: http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=3702 | 22:06 |
_I3^RELATIVISM | golinux: ^^ | 22:07 |
user___ | I know, I was on alsa on ascii | 22:07 |
brocashelm | tried ascii on and off and it wasn't yet my time. beowulf made me stay | 22:09 |
fsmithred | volumeicon-alsa is in the repo | 22:10 |
user___ | looks like there's a way to a2dp bt on alsa. Interesting. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12338621/a2dp-sink-without-pulseaudio | 22:11 |
brocashelm | didn't know about volumeicon-alsa | 22:13 |
user___ | there is a volume control for the xfce toolbar in ascii already and it works with alsa just fine | 22:13 |
user___ | s/is/was/ | 22:13 |
jiefkmatrixnikel | Is there a way to stream audio sources to different sound cards in ALSA the same easy way Pulseaudio does (AKA you select the sound card directly from a dropdown list) ? | 22:14 |
user___ | yes once you have the files configured you can select sources and sinks in the applications | 22:15 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: not exactly that easily but it's definitely possible | 22:15 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: yea, every application just takes its own configuration for choosing soundcards at that point | 22:15 |
user___ | jiefkmatrixnikel: in English: some config script editing by hand is needed but then it works. And there are examples and help online. | 22:15 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: no more pulseaudio as a middle man | 22:15 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: you can use arecord/aplay with stdin and stdout to bounce streams off the inputs and outputs of adjacent cards. | 22:16 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: and you can use the snd-aloop module to create extra virtual cards if you need more cards to bounce stuff off | 22:16 |
jiefkmatrixnikel | "gnarface" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_gnarface:matrix.org): thanks, That's exactly what I want : Ditch pulseaudio once and for all. But the simplicity it provides makes it a showstopper. | 22:19 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: unfortunately it is the simplest entity to provide such a service. you can do without it but you need to learn some bash | 22:20 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: the only other currently maintained and in-production answer i know of is Jack but it is definitely not simpler than pulseaudio or manual configuration. it's sort of the worst of both worlds in those regards | 22:21 |
jiefkmatrixnikel | :) thanks for the suggestion "gnarface" (https://matrix.to/#/@freenode_gnarface:matrix.org) | 22:23 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: you don't have to really know much bash though. for example, any properly behaved alsa client should be able to use a different soundcard at start up by you just supplying the ALSA_CARD environment variable specifying any non-default card | 22:23 |
gnarface | jiefkmatrixnikel: (most programs have their own internal configuration but a few don't, and for those you can use this ALSA_CARD variable) | 22:24 |
lamermaster | hello | 22:36 |
lamermaster | concerning the command "xset" in utils xorg, is there a possible libx11-dev way to get dpms "xset s off ; xset -dpms " to not switch off, out of the box?# | 22:37 |
gnarface | lamermaster: i'm not sure i understand your question. are you asking the xset command for the opposite of what you're doing here? | 22:38 |
gnarface | lamermaster: it sounds like you're asking for a way to disable the command from doing what it says to do, but why even run it in the first place then? | 22:38 |
lamermaster | I would like that the monitor keeps ON all the time, no dpms to put it off after a while. | 22:39 |
lamermaster | I know that this can be done without having xset. | 22:39 |
lamermaster | I wanna have only xserver-xorg gcc make libx11-dev evilwm into my box, for raspberry zero. (slow stuffs). | 22:40 |
gnarface | oh, well xset is the easiest way to do it, but those defaults come from BIOS settings actually. you can turn this off in your BIOS unless you're computing with a tortilla | 22:40 |
lamermaster | surely that it does not come from bios but from X11 / xorg. | 22:40 |
lamermaster | xorg has the power. | 22:40 |
gnarface | oh, a rpi0... classifies as "tortilla" in this context | 22:40 |
lamermaster | /usr/bin/X | 22:40 |
gnarface | basically you're S.O.L. unless you patch Broadcom's closed-source firmware | 22:41 |
lamermaster | all devuans behave the same for dpms ,... ok, let's say on amd64, it is too with dpms ON. | 22:41 |
gnarface | xset is so vastly easier to do this with you should just use xset | 22:41 |
gnarface | it's actually a legal requirement for hardware vendors to default that to ON believe it or not | 22:41 |
gnarface | (look into 80's/90's early environmentalism laws, RE: "Energy Star Compliance" | 22:42 |
gnarface | ) | 22:42 |
gnarface | but really, your typical amd64 is going to have a BIOS setting to disable it | 22:42 |
gnarface | the rpi0 doesn't even have a BIOS | 22:42 |
gnarface | the xset command has several formats but the one that has been the most reliable for me across all versions is: "xset dpms 0 0 0" | 22:44 |
lamermaster | well, the xorg layer can do it... we can see it on BSD; that this dpms feature is not activated by default. it depends mostly on X (or wayland if considered). | 22:44 |
gnarface | (the zeroes are "standby," "suspend," and "off" times, i believe) | 22:45 |
gnarface | no, you're misunderstanding something fundamental | 22:45 |
gnarface | the DPMS feature is a hardware feature of the display itself | 22:45 |
gnarface | xset just gives you access to it | 22:46 |
mason | gnarface: xset -dpms ought to work for you as well. | 22:46 |
gnarface | mason: maybe it does now but it didn't once in 2013 so i changed formats to one that's easier to parse, apparently | 22:46 |
mason | For my media system, I say "xset -dpms" and "xset s off" and that's enough to prevent the screen from flipping off on its own, as we do it by hand when we're done using the TV. | 22:47 |
gnarface | lamermaster: well, i dunno. maybe try vbetool instead. i' | 22:48 |
mason | Pretty sure that's been the option for a very long time, but whatever works. | 22:48 |
gnarface | lamermaster: i've only used vbetool to force blanking rather than prevent it, but maybe it will work too | 22:48 |
lamermaster | I think that it might be possible using libx11-dev right with a small X11 code. | 22:49 |
gnarface | lamermaster: but now that i'm thinking of it more, what i vaguely recall the situation being for RPI models is that you need their actual own custom tool they've released to twiddle the hardware bits directly after boot | 22:49 |
gnarface | lamermaster: for that though it is actually accessing their proprietary blackbox firmware | 22:49 |
lamermaster | I dealt with libx11-dev a bit... I have forked fspanel and evilwm, this is why I ask. Little bit of X notions. | 22:49 |
gnarface | lamermaster: all i could suggest is look at the code of that raspbian tool to see what hooks it calls | 22:50 |
lamermaster | I will check how the xset works, maybe I can modify a little Xhello to get this ... | 22:50 |
mason | https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=xset&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=Debian+2.2.7&arch=default&format=html | 22:50 |
mason | (Debian Potato) | 22:50 |
mason | (which is circa 2000) | 22:51 |
lamermaster | this is yeah xset | 22:51 |
lamermaster | https://github.com/freedesktop/xorg-xset/blob/master/xset.c | 22:52 |
lamermaster | DPMSGetTimeouts(dpy, &standby_timeout, &suspend_timeout, | 22:53 |
lamermaster | &off_timeout); | 22:53 |
lamermaster | it uses the extension... not fun. | 22:53 |
mason | lamermaster: Ah, sorry, you already noted xset -s off and -dpms. As for doing that by default, I'm not seeing defaults in config, so it's probably cooked in. | 22:53 |
gnarface | i think most of the weird behavior i had over the years was to do with one way or another failing to set all 3 of those values to something coherent | 22:53 |
lamermaster | X11/extensions/dpms.h sounds doable with little c code. | 22:53 |
mason | https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Display_Power_Management_Signaling shows how to do the xset things straight from config, although this isn't the same as default/out of the box either. | 22:54 |
lamermaster | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/60477195/turning-off-monitor-in-c | 22:54 |
lamermaster | I am happy, I will have no jungle or zoo in my installation | 22:57 |
lamermaster | debootstrap, then apt-get install xserver-xorg xterm xinit libx11-dev gcc ; | 22:58 |
lamermaster | and then I compile evilwm, this fork of xset and fltk from source. all stays very fine. | 22:58 |
lamermaster | To put a wallpaper, I have a little X11 code as well. No scrot either, I have my own as well to create a png (no lib, except libx11-dev). | 22:58 |
mason | lamermaster: You sound like you'd like sta.li. | 23:01 |
lamermaster | I like BSD, not linux... I just use linux for the raspberry and arms, by obligation. Still, time make bogomips.c gives still best perfs for the linux kernel. it is the fastest. | 23:02 |
lamermaster | 648 0.0 0.2 3860 2200 tty1 S 22:10 0:00 evilwm | 23:03 |
mason | Hm, there's a lot of movement for ARM (including rpi) in FreeBSD lately. | 23:03 |
lamermaster | my evilwm does great job ;) litle usage of mem. | 23:03 |
lamermaster | freebsd is a very robust system, more stable than linux by far. | 23:04 |
lamermaster | my file server is freebsd, it can run 2 or 3 years no problem. | 23:04 |
mason | bbiab, chickenherding | 23:07 |
lamermaster | what is it? | 23:11 |
fsmithred | Please do not feed the coyotes. | 23:17 |
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