unixbsd | is the debian stable with 5.1.x comparable to devuan beowufl, does it have 5.x kernel? | 00:34 |
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rrq | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html?c=package&q=linux-image-5* | 00:36 |
unixbsd | thx | 00:36 |
unixbsd | what means bpo already? | 00:37 |
unixbsd | backports | 00:37 |
unixbsd | and the default beowulf kernel, is that a 4.x type? | 00:37 |
rrq | yes, seems to be 4.19 atm | 00:47 |
unixbsd | bit old,... brr | 00:47 |
unixbsd | so recopmilation to get a newer one | 00:47 |
tsadok | Eh, I remember when all the cool kids were messing around with the new 2.6 kernel, and Debian stable ("woody", at the time) had the 2.2 kernel but it was marked as "experimental", and the old well-tested 2.0 kernel was recommended. | 00:50 |
unixbsd | ascii is a 4.9.0-11 | 00:50 |
unixbsd | oh yeah, i recall | 00:50 |
unixbsd | that debian was way so old, you couldnt imagine. | 00:51 |
unixbsd | I needed a 2.4 for fast but no usb, 2.6 was usb revelation | 00:51 |
tsadok | I mean, in terms of the number of months, it wasn't THAT old by today's standards. But things changed much faster back then. | 00:51 |
tsadok | Its libraries were so hopelessly out of date, no current applications could be compiled for it. | 00:51 |
tsadok | Which is why warty warthog was so successful when it came out. | 00:52 |
unixbsd | warty warthog was new gen of linux | 00:55 |
tsadok | I mean, I generally date from sarge; but it's related. | 00:56 |
unixbsd | I believed that it would replace debian, ... but you forgot to mention that the FREE SHIPPIGN cdroms was the must ! | 00:56 |
unixbsd | I still have the free shipping installation red cdroms, this was cool at the time. | 00:56 |
golinux | Please go down memory lane on #devuan-offtopic. Thanks | 00:56 |
unixbsd | It was just a marketing big HIT. while debian was noble and out of date with hardware support, nothing worked. | 00:58 |
unixbsd | no libreoffice, no webcam driver, nothing, crossover to run windows 95 or maybe 97 by luck | 00:59 |
unixbsd | that was primitive age of prehistory. kde fast and reliable. | 01:00 |
unixbsd | *office | 01:00 |
unixbsd | Also guys, try to add lib bin and a C compiler, like clang in your devuan | 06:45 |
unixbsd | the x11 is not well installed on it, as well. firmware are there and good to run. | 06:45 |
unixbsd | the devuan live beowulf amd64 is such a mess. you forget the deb in root, and using /run for overlay, questioning? | 06:45 |
unixbsd | hi | 11:19 |
unixbsd | what are the minimum debs to have a working chroot . ? linux-base, password, and which next? | 11:19 |
unixbsd | the very minimum. | 11:19 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Something like libc6 is the very minimum, I'd think. What do you need it for, though? For me, # debootstrap --variant=minbase worked rather well so far. (At least as well as to install a bunch of other packages I consider "base". Like, say, apg and unzip.) | 12:17 |
unixbsd | from min deboostrap, the deb: dpkg -x *libc* /target ; chroot /target would work? | 12:21 |
unixbsd | I try to reduce the size from 335MB devuan base to minimum | 12:21 |
unixbsd | I need about 50 MB around | 12:22 |
unixbsd | this is crazy really | 12:24 |
unixbsd | the debootstrap base of beowulf is 711 MB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 12:24 |
ShorTie | 50 MB doesn't leave much room for apt | 12:28 |
ShorTie | what do you want to do in this chroot ?? | 12:28 |
ShorTie | absolute smallest chroot i'd guess like these https://linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter06/chapter06.html | 12:30 |
ShorTie | you need binutils to umpak deb's | 12:32 |
onefang | If you use something like busybox or toybox, you can get smaller than LFS. | 12:32 |
onefang | LFS is a "compile the lot yourself" system, not package based. | 12:32 |
ShorTie | true | 12:33 |
ShorTie | i just used LFS for the list of basic stuff | 12:34 |
ShorTie | how he gets them, got me | 12:35 |
ShorTie | but you need binutils and tar to unpack debs | 12:36 |
Walex | unixbsd: you need at least packages marked "essential". | 12:48 |
Walex | unixbsd: anyhow there are other distros that aim at minimality for containers etc., some of them are Debian forks too. | 12:48 |
Walex | and there are several distros based on the much smaller MUSL: https://wiki.musl-libc.org/projects-using-musl.html | 12:50 |
Walex | unixbsd: you can sort this table by "Image Size": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-weight_Linux_distribution#Comparison | 12:51 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Re. "the debootstrap base of beowulf is 711 MB !!", that doesn't seem right. My --variant=minbase debootstrap of (last year's, granted) Debian Bullseye is only 110 MiB. Did you clean things like /var/lib/apt/lists/ and /var/cache/apt/ after debootstrap? | 13:30 |
unixbsd | with added: minvariant=minbase it is 293MB | 13:49 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Check the top of # du -x --all -- /chroot | sort -srn | less ? | 13:50 |
onefang | That should be --variant=minbase | 13:51 |
iv4nshm4k0v | I expect that around 80 MiB to be added for _Packages lists, and perhaps half that (?) more for package descriptions. And there'd be the downloaded .debs under /var/cache/apt/packages, of course. | 13:53 |
unixbsd | this confirms it: | 14:06 |
unixbsd | pwd ; debootstrap --no-check-gpg --variant=minbase beowulf . http://deb.devuan.org/merged | 14:06 |
unixbsd | chroot . ; apt-get clean | 14:06 |
unixbsd | df -h returns: /dev/sda7 49G 219M 47G 1% /media/sda7 <-- so about 219MB, so wiithout even dhclient and so on. Man, this is really a lot. | 14:07 |
unixbsd | and I forgot, without vmlinuz and /lib/modules also. | 14:08 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: # apt-get clean does /not/ clean neither /var/lib/apt/lists nor /var/cache/apt/*cache.bin , which are only needed for APT. Once you have all the packages installed via APT, those can be removed. (And you can get them back via # apt-get update , of course.) | 14:08 |
unixbsd | ok, rm -rf to force that delete and get spce | 14:09 |
unixbsd | rm -rf /var/cache/apt/ , after: /dev/sda7 49G 219M 47G 1% /media/sda7 | 14:09 |
unixbsd | rm -rf /media/sda7/var/cache/ ; returns: /dev/sda7 49G 218M 47G 1% /media/sda | 14:10 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Better rm /without/ -r, for the directories are needed for APT to work. Also: /var/lib/apt/lists. | 14:10 |
unixbsd | I need about 50-100MB devuan. 300 mb is too large to make a live usb memstick. | 14:11 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Other than that, I'll need the du | sort output to figure out what went wrong. | 14:12 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Also, why '300 mb is too large'? | 14:12 |
unixbsd | it is quite a lot 300 mb for a linux | 14:13 |
unixbsd | wait I pastebin the list of debs... with minbase... perl?? do we need perl. | 14:13 |
unixbsd | minbase has about 220MB: links https://termbin.com/4gg9 (without kernel yet!) | 14:14 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: 300M was large a decade ago; now it's rather the norm. Note, however, that for a /Live/ install (as in, with live-boot and possibly live-config) you can use Squashfs, which will reduce the flash footprint by half. | 14:15 |
unixbsd | yet luckily the squashfs makes it smaller | 14:16 |
unixbsd | yeah | 14:16 |
unixbsd | I will try to reduce bit more with hand ... dpkg -x file.deb /targetroot/ | 14:16 |
unixbsd | we need base*.deb libc6* libext* init* sysvini* | 14:17 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: I'm pretty sure that out of your 220 MB, some 100 MB are /not/ part of any package. /var/lib/apt/lists seem a likely culprit. | 14:24 |
unixbsd | less than 300 MB (including the kernel) for devuan seems not possible. | 14:25 |
unixbsd | I guess I muzst give up devuan for live memstick, I will go LFS. | 14:25 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: For Debian Buster, my Live images were about 253 MiB. That included such packages as screen and heimdal-clients. For Debian Bullseye, I'd aim for about 300 MiB, right. | 14:27 |
unixbsd | I want a live running on less than 100 MB. My slackware live is just 46MB. | 14:28 |
iv4nshm4k0v | (... Ah, I also have locales-all there...) | 14:30 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: It's your call, obviously, but I'd venture to guess that such a lightweight GNU/Linux Live wouldn't be much useful to me. | 14:30 |
unixbsd | the cool thing with debian is that it is debian, lot of tools | 14:32 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Yep. My point is that 'lot of tools' means 'lot of space.' E. g., my 'system' installs of recent Debian versions are around 2 GiB. | 14:35 |
iv4nshm4k0v | ISTR it used to be half that a decade ago; though, obviously, my toolset has since changed considerably. | 14:37 |
unixbsd | well, just need the min to start the live, and then apt-get can be fetched maybe. aptt is bit too big | 14:37 |
unixbsd | iv4nshm4k0v: it is not an "excuse" because other OSs are larger and "un"efficients | 14:45 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: It's not about excuses, but rather tradeoffs, I'd think. | 14:45 |
unixbsd | we say something like "to have good conscience" | 14:46 |
* iv4nshm4k0v says that if one wants an OS that fits a 180 KB diskette, one should stick to CP/M | 14:47 | |
iv4nshm4k0v | (No offense intended.) | 14:47 |
ShorTie | don't they already have a live image to install from ?? | 14:47 |
ShorTie | what is wrong with it ?? | 14:47 |
unixbsd | iv4nshm4k0v: I started on CP/M, it was a nice sysetm | 14:48 |
unixbsd | IBM arrived, cp/m became nothing, and MS became what it is today ;) | 14:48 |
iv4nshm4k0v | ShorTie: Pre-made Live images usually include useless stuff (like, say, XFCE) and exclude useful stuff (like, say, heimdal-clients and screen.) In the specific case of Debian proper, they're also Systemd-based. | 14:48 |
ShorTie | oh really | 14:49 |
unixbsd | a distro that removes " less " shows how much they didnt understand anything about UNIX. | 14:50 |
unixbsd | apt-get install links ... not found. like ubuntu | 14:50 |
fsmithred | links2 | 14:52 |
unixbsd | we still at 1.03 in openbsd ;) links 1.03 | 14:53 |
fsmithred | links is found here. Something missing from your sources.list? | 14:54 |
fsmithred | it's in beowulf main | 14:54 |
fsmithred | also in chimaera and ceres | 14:55 |
unixbsd | what my shame, my live image of devuan runs on a zcat of 250 MB. anyhow. | 15:01 |
fsmithred | they do make usb sticks bigger than 1GB now. | 15:08 |
unixbsd | My 16MB memstick rescue is smaller... ok. I give my new version based on devuan : pcmedkit | 15:10 |
ham5urg | I try to copy from a webdav-directory to a local one via rsync -a user\@example\.org@http://example.org/ /local_dir | 15:47 |
ham5urg | The username is an email-address and it looks like I wrongly escaped the "@" and ".". | 15:48 |
unixbsd | I got a little live... https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pcmedkit/-/blob/master/release-v4/pcmedkit-memstick-amd64-v4-release-ramdisk-devuan-plus.img | 20:39 |
unixbsd | actually the filesystem.squashfs is about 160MB. quite ok actually, using ascii. | 20:40 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: Note that you don't need 30+ MiB (uncompressed size) var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_ascii_main_binary-amd64_Packages on your Squashfs. Strictly speaking, you don't need a 22 MiB boot/ there, either. | 21:10 |
iv4nshm4k0v | unixbsd: You can get rid of *-old files under var/lib and var/cache there as well. But most of all, you can use mksquashfs -always-use-fragments option. | 21:13 |
iv4nshm4k0v | (ISTR that Squashfs compression only applies to fragments, /not/ unfragmented files.) | 21:13 |
iv4nshm4k0v | Configuring templatedb in /etc/debconf.conf as follows may also help: Name: templatedb Driver: PackageDir Mode: 644 Directory: /var/cache/debconf/templates.d . | 21:17 |
unixbsd | iv4nshm4k0v: thank you. I will progreses in live making | 21:21 |
unixbsd | iv4nshm4k0v: currently my live devuan asii is gzipped 200 mb, but it will be small sitll | 21:22 |
unixbsd | devuan live on about 200 MB, only now, but well, it is way too large. Maybe I should use cpio and initrd to have it way smaller. | 21:47 |
unixbsd | 200mbg https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pcmedkit/-/raw/master/release-v5/pcmedkit-memstick-amd64-v5-release-ramdisk-devuan-200mb.img.gz | 21:47 |
unixbsd | On 400MB, I managed to put Devuan with the content: C compiler (gcc and make), debootstrap, wpa_supplicant for wifi, fdisk, ifconfig, ifupdown, testdisk, vim, mpg123, partimage, xfsprogs, ntfs-3g, wodim, links, nano, ... and also: + NetBSD + Slackware. | 22:31 |
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