| Christian | hello I am new and i just removed my systemd :)) My decision came after I noticed that they removed the -d option in puma to force people to use systemd | 04:37 |
|---|---|---|
| gnarface | congratulations | 04:40 |
| gnarface | this puma? puma - threaded HTTP 1.1 server for Ruby/Rack applications | 04:44 |
| Christian | yes | 05:04 |
| Christian | no I have to remember the init.d thing :)) | 05:06 |
| Christian | hope you guys compile puma with the -d option | 05:08 |
| brocashelm | i've been using devuan + runit for years already. very light and fast | 05:14 |
| ecxod | I changed my nick because christian was not free | 05:25 |
| ecxod | but NICKSERV is not sending that email | 05:26 |
| FatPhil | Bugger, utterly unable to boot from USB install media on my X250 | 07:44 |
| FatPhil | Simply cannot get into the BIOS to change the boot settings. | 07:44 |
| FatPhil | Tried esc, f1, f2, f12, ctrl-s, with and without the "fn" key for toggling the fn key meanings, pressing and holding, tapping repeatedly, basically everything that's ever fricken worked, and all I get is the bloody windows desktop. | 07:45 |
| FatPhil | I did manage to get into it just once after ~20 minutes of trying yesterday, and was able to enable booting from legacy media. but this morning, now I have a USB stick with a bootable devuan installer, I've wasted a whole hour already, and failed ~50 times out of 50. | 07:47 |
| FatPhil | shop I bought it from doesn't open for another hour or so. | 07:48 |
| DashiePie | does it have an intel processor? | 07:48 |
| DashiePie | I ask this, because I have a win10 pc with an intel processor, and it has this feature that prevents install of Devuan. I forget what it's called, though. | 07:51 |
| DashiePie | as for if it's win11, this might help for both win10 and 11 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/cant-access-bios-or-advanced-startup-on-windows-11/8f60686d-a5ec-40cc-b3ff-787c8c2f300a | 07:52 |
| DashiePie | I just remebered what it was called: Optane | 07:54 |
| DashiePie | I hope that helps, but it's bedtime for me, goodnight | 08:00 |
| ecxod | hey ! it is my first day without this incredible thing, and everything is working well .. :)) | 08:00 |
| onefang | FatPhil: Might be that the option of booting from something else is hidden in the BIOS setup screens. | 08:02 |
| onefang | Also some can disable the graphics boot, or disable silent boot, which may give you a "Press this odd key combo to select boot device" flashing up for a half second before it actually boots.. | 08:14 |
| FatPhil | I don't even know what version of windows it is because they are all so unfamiliar to me I (a) don't recognise them; and (b) don't know how to find out. | 08:16 |
| FatPhil | onefang: my random pressing did get me in *just once*, and I turned on every "slow/helpful boot" option I could find - so it prints the message to press <F1> to enter the bios setup utility, for example, and pauses for a couple of seconds at each of the numerous booting stages. | 08:18 |
| FatPhil | I can repeatedly pull up the boot selection device menu with ctrl-s, but that doesn't offer the USB stick. | 08:19 |
| FatPhil | I did also set the "permit booting from legacy media" while I was in the bios yesterday. | 08:19 |
| onefang | Ah you might need to enable booting for specific devices. | 08:19 |
| FatPhil | that was the weird thing about the bios yesterday - it *didn't* have a boot order configuration panel. | 08:20 |
| FatPhil | so I couldn't explicitly add USB to the list of things it would look at. | 08:20 |
| brocashelm | trying out openntpd instead of ntp/ntpsec for network time synchronization. any thoughts on that one? lighter and stabler? | 08:20 |
| FatPhil | ctrl-s offers me the hard disk and PXE | 08:21 |
| onefang | Well if it worked once, but you don't recall what it was that did work, less random pressing, and pay more attention. | 08:21 |
| FatPhil | brocashelm: I've neem on openntpd for ever with no issues, I prefer it to the canonical package. | 08:21 |
| FatPhil | onefang: I'd already gone through all of the sane keypresses, I was getting kinda desperate. | 08:22 |
| FatPhil | not as desperate as I am today, I've wasted well over an hour booting into windows 50 times already. | 08:22 |
| onefang | Time to try insanity. Sometimes it helps. B-) | 08:22 |
| brocashelm | fatphil: oh, cool. works well for me so far. what about sndio as an alternative to pulseaudio or pipewire? still on alsa as it just works | 08:23 |
| onefang | ALSA + JACK is what I use. | 08:23 |
| FatPhil | I'm just plain ALSA | 08:23 |
| brocashelm | just pure alsa here | 08:23 |
| onefang | Ignore those that say JACK is hard and use QjackCtl. | 08:24 |
| brocashelm | i have not had a reason to add any of those layers. just wondering how sndio compares to them | 08:26 |
| FatPhil | I always ask myself "what is the problem that I have such that $newtech is the solution to that problem", and that's why I'm always on "legacy" software. | 08:26 |
| brocashelm | maybe if i wanted to record sound through my screen, so pulseaudio or pipewire would "work" in that regard. i've had usb headsets work with just alsa firmware tinkering | 08:26 |
| onefang | Well in my case, this year I have started learning to be an electronic music producer, so JACK is needed. | 08:27 |
| brocashelm | out of curiosity, what programs are you using for your production? ardour and the like? | 08:27 |
| onefang | Mostly MusE that I compile myself from their git. Plus looots of plugins. | 08:28 |
| brocashelm | i have seen that sndio can work well with midi devices, so i could plug in a keyboard or v-drums | 08:28 |
| brocashelm | ok, i've heard of muse before. never really messed with it | 08:28 |
| brocashelm | but ardour looks pretty expandable from what i've seen | 08:29 |
| onefang | I did a lot of testing of things mostly using a MIDI file of Tubular Bells. LOts of things couldn't handle that. | 08:29 |
| onefang | Ardour crashes, hangs, or spews lots of errors with that. Then I tried to build it and noticed it's Pythen build tool has a binary blob at the end. NO FUCKING WAY! | 08:30 |
| onefang | LMMS is good for basic stuff, and includes it's own instruments. | 08:31 |
| onefang | Most of the tools use a variety of plugins, and often support several plugin standards. Including Windows plugins. | 08:33 |
| FatPhil | damn - briefly managed to get into the bios again, and I think I know how I did it this time - need to try again to reproduce | 09:33 |
| onefang | Progress! | 09:33 |
| FatPhil | I did get in again - I had to "restart" windows rather than shut down and power up | 09:39 |
| FatPhil | there was a bit of mousepad slippage yesterday, I may have accidentally selected that option | 09:39 |
| FatPhil | I've checked - all the bios passwords are disabled, so I should have access to everything | 09:40 |
| FatPhil | but still no boot order settings | 09:40 |
| FatPhil | Found it! it was hidden under a submenu, and the UI was ambiguous | 09:58 |
| FatPhil | USB added to list ... f12 lets me select it ... Installing devuan! | 09:58 |
| FatPhil | What do I need to preserve on the hard disk so that I'll be able to reboot again. I'd hate to just overwrite everything and then have UEFI tell me to get bent | 09:59 |
| onefang | Yay! | 09:59 |
| onefang | I prefer rEFInd as a boot loader on my desktop for that sort of thing. It also has an option to get into the BIOS. | 10:00 |
| onefang | It's main advantage is it figures out for itself what can be booted from, but you have to get it on there in the first place. | 10:01 |
| FatPhil | I prefer a world where UEFI was never invented. Alas that's not an option. | 10:01 |
| gnarface | what do you mean by reboot again? you mean reboot into windows again? | 10:03 |
| FatPhil | no, I literally mean boot anything | 10:04 |
| FatPhil | when I installed devuan on my MSI Cubi a few years back, I know I had to preserve some partition for UEFI purposes | 10:05 |
| gnarface | oh | 10:05 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 10:05 |
| gnarface | good question | 10:05 |
| FatPhil | linux keeps it mounted as /boot/efi | 10:05 |
| onefang | Yes you need an EFI partition. | 10:05 |
| FatPhil | arse, it seems to have forgotten my "use Fn keys as Fn keys" setting - was trying to get a console, and confusing the installer with volume up! | 10:14 |
| FatPhil | I see 4 partitions on the HD: 500M Windows recovery environment; 99M EFI system; 16M Windows reserved; 237G Microsoft basic data. | 10:17 |
| FatPhil | from fdisk -l | 10:17 |
| onefang | 99M EFI system is the one you keep. | 10:18 |
| FatPhil | yup, I see I preserved that on my Cubi. Looks like I preserved the Windows reserved too, not sure why. | 10:20 |
| FatPhil | However, that was a slightly different scenario, I'd added an SSD to that, it was booting off an onboard flash device previously so I didn't care about just keeping all the old crap lying around. | 10:21 |
| FatPhil | Took me weeks or months to blat the OS partition when I finally got "brave" enough. I still don't use that partition for anything. | 10:22 |
| FatPhil | Ah, if I need to preserve a partition I can't use full disk encryption | 10:30 |
| onefang | Doubt if you could boot from a fully encrypted disk either. | 10:31 |
| FatPhil | my x240 does, I'll check the gf's x250... | 10:32 |
| FatPhil | yarp, she has no effin' EFI on hers. | 10:33 |
| FatPhil | Oooh, I could pull out an SSD from an old dead laptop, and attempt a 100% linux boot install on that, and if that works, put the bigger SSD back in. | 10:34 |
| FatPhil | lunch break and progress report - downs, and ups, fortunately | 13:01 |
| FatPhil | took 19 screws of 6 different types to get the old HD out!?!?! that's just insane. fucked up the disk swap, the silly surface connector wasn't properly in. even the stock drive failed to boot. reseated everything, and the old disk is recognised, and better that that - bootable | 13:03 |
| FatPhil | it went straight into a (i386) lubuntu with no EFI on it. | 13:04 |
| FatPhil | so I think I' able to blat the whole drive and use full disk encryption as I have on all the other machines. | 13:05 |
| FatPhil | however, to convince myself it's low-risk, I shall perform a full chimaera install on the spare disk, and if that works I'll swap back the original and get brave. | 13:16 |
| FatPhil | I'd forgotten how much I hate those press-together connectors. | 13:18 |
| onefang | More progress! | 13:25 |
| FatPhil | seems a bit paranoid doing 2 installs, but I'll end up with a live bootable system on the spare disk. | 13:31 |
| FatPhil | is the installer a debian thing, or are there devuan customisations - there are a couple of mini buglets that could be improved | 13:34 |
| onefang | I think fsmithred wrote the installer for us. I may be wrong. | 13:38 |
| FatPhil | it's at this point I realise Ihaven't got a clue how to manually configure LVM, yet I hate the defaults | 13:39 |
| onefang | I have even less clue. | 13:39 |
| FatPhil | Just knowing what command I could use on the lappy I configured 5 years ago in order to find out what I did would be useful | 13:45 |
| FatPhil | looks like I just did a single partition | 13:50 |
| FatPhil | ugh - it's allocating 1GB for swap, that's not even a quarter of a firefox | 13:55 |
| fsmithred | yes, I wrote the live installer with some help from a few others | 13:58 |
| onefang | I use swapspace, it allocates swap files as big as is needed. Which also means it's not taking up space when not needed. | 13:58 |
| fsmithred | FatPhil, are you installing from one of the live isos? | 13:59 |
| fsmithred | if so, there's a way to manually set up lvm. I can give you a link to instructions. | 13:59 |
| fsmithred | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2323 | 14:00 |
| FatPhil | I went for the netinstall, as that was the interface I'm historically familiar with (in clorios text-consolo-vision | 14:00 |
| fsmithred | you mean real plain console and not the ncurses interface? With audio? | 14:01 |
| fsmithred | the debian/devuan installer in the installer isos gives you a lot more possibilities for partitioning. | 14:02 |
| fsmithred | and software selection. | 14:02 |
| FatPhil | I presume it's curses, the blue background and borders around the dialog boxes | 14:05 |
| FatPhil | Ug, I've messed something up. while seeing what it was going to do with LVM it seems to have locked in an LVM configuration that I can't overwrite | 14:06 |
| FatPhil | It asks me to "name the volume group for the new system", and then it tells me that the name I chose (the default it suggests) is "already in use". It can't be already in use, as I've not left ths stage of the installer | 14:08 |
| fsmithred | I think maybe you need to go back to the window that shows the partition table, choose the volume group and delete it. | 14:09 |
| FatPhil | I can't see an option to delete a volume grou | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | But that's a guess. I always have to find my way through the maze when doing lvm or encryption when installing with d-i | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | other possibility would be to drop to console and nuke it manually | 14:10 |
| FatPhil | If I select things like "Configure the Logical Volume Manager", it pops up a scary dialog "Before the LVM can be configured, the current partitioning scheme has to be written to disk ..." | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | yeah, let it do that | 14:11 |
| FatPhil | I'm literally saying "shit's wrong" and it's saying "gotta save that shit, and "no additional changes to partitioning are allowed" | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | and then you can proceed | 14:11 |
| fsmithred | that's the normal procedure | 14:12 |
| FatPhil | "Error while initialising phyzical volume" | 14:12 |
| fsmithred | but I'm not sure about the 'name already existing' error message | 14:12 |
| FatPhil | "the physical volume /dev/mapper/sda5_crypt | 14:12 |
| FatPhil | could not be initialized" | 14:13 |
| fsmithred | that volume exists? | 14:13 |
| FatPhil | consile says "partman=lvm: Can't open /dev/mapper/sda5_crypt exclusively. Mounted filesystem?" | 14:14 |
| FatPhil | nothing's mounted from that hard disk | 14:15 |
| FatPhil | I do see devmapper partitions in /proc/partitions though | 14:15 |
| FatPhil | it looks like there are these LVM groups/partitions/whwatevers, and I just can't delete them | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | vgremove | 14:18 |
| fsmithred | I think that's the right command | 14:18 |
| FatPhil | vgremove says ""volume group not found" | 14:19 |
| fsmithred | I don't know what to tell you. Maybe restart the installer. Maybe find a video that shows how to do it. | 14:23 |
| fsmithred | I made a video that shows how to make a single encrypted partition. It took me four or five attempts to get it right. | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | and that's the install I usually do when I use d-i | 14:24 |
| fsmithred | did you let it write to disk when it said it had to do that before you could configure lvm? | 14:25 |
| FatPhil | I did let it write once, perhaps twice, but I think the 2nd time it barfed. | 14:27 |
| FatPhil | I'm starting from scratch.. | 14:27 |
| fsmithred | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEl2S5MI-WU This one claims to show you how to do it. | 14:29 |
| FatPhil | I can't even find the "manual/guided" partitioning menu this time | 14:32 |
| FatPhil | It shows me the last thing I wrote out, which was plain old fashioned non-encrypted partitions, nothing assigned to any of the, | 14:32 |
| FatPhil | I'm not even getting the option of LVM encryption | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | If you follow that video, I suggest you don't let the installer erase the data on your encrypted volume. That could take longer than a day to complete. | 14:39 |
| FatPhil | Following that vid, and it's just bifurcated from what I see. | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | did you check the sha256sum to verify the iso? | 14:41 |
| FatPhil | I do the "detect disks" and then go to "partition disks" | 14:41 |
| FatPhil | he gets led to the "The installer can guide you ..." with the choices of guided or manual | 14:42 |
| fsmithred | at 4:44 or so? | 14:43 |
| FatPhil | I get led to "here is an overview of your currently configured partitions" | 14:43 |
| FatPhil | paused at 4:28 - I no longer have that menu he shows | 14:43 |
| FatPhil | I can blat my partitiontable manually from the console, and go in again | 14:44 |
| fsmithred | that might be good | 14:45 |
| fsmithred | it's msdos partition table? | 14:45 |
| FatPhil | I still don't get his menu - just 120GB free space in my "currently configured parritions" | 14:45 |
| fsmithred | is there anything on the disk you need to keep? | 14:46 |
| FatPhil | nothing | 14:46 |
| FatPhil | I'm deliberately doing a test install on a spare disk | 14:47 |
| FatPhil | before I overwrite the one that came with the lappy | 14:47 |
| FatPhil | aborting and trying again. | 14:49 |
| FatPhil | this time I'll not do the advanced install, so I'm a closer match to his flow | 14:49 |
| FatPhil | OK, caught up with him. It looks like his parts agree with what I like, so I'll pretty much follow what he does | 14:52 |
| FatPhil | OK, one click later, and we've diverged again. I have a bunch of other options between "Guided partitioning" and "configure iSCSI volumes" (and of course our devices are very different) | 14:54 |
| FatPhil | aha, after ge set up his encryption partition, he gets those same options, which he's now diving into... | 14:59 |
| FatPhil | I'm just making a coffee while the partition gets randomised, thanks for hunting out this vid - it looks like it's bang on what I needed. | 15:04 |
| FatPhil | THe only question I have so far is why he selected "physical volume for encryption" rather than "physical volume for LVM" at 5:54 | 15:07 |
| FatPhil | The best thing about my practice install is that hopefully by the time I've done it on the real device, it should become more intuitive. | 15:08 |
| FatPhil | oooh, another question - why, at 8:42 does his /dev/mapper/vda5_crypt say "ext4"? (mine does too) - ext4 makes no sense in this context, it was "physical volume for encryption", not "ext4". | 15:14 |
| FatPhil | cool, I'm past the LVM parts now, so it should all be familiar now | 15:29 |
| FatPhil | I do think the dead ends I found earlier are bugs in the installer. I can't delete something until I save something, and I can't save that something until I've deleted the thing I want to delete. That's a deadlock. | 15:33 |
| onefang | Yay! | 15:33 |
| FatPhil | and it boots, straight to devuan! | 15:37 |
| FatPhil | thanks all, in particular fsmithred for that vid! | 15:38 |
| onefang | Yay! Again. B-) | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | cool. | 15:40 |
| FatPhil | what's a sensible hd benchmarking tool - if I'm going to swap out the drive and put the original windows one back in, ready for another install sesh, it might be nice to know if I'm actually downgrading | 15:40 |
| FatPhil | oyoyoy, burnt 9 hours on this already today, I think I need some cat vids to calm me down | 15:41 |
| fsmithred | hdparm -tT | 15:42 |
| FatPhil | fsmithred: might it make sense to get that video linked to from the devuan documentation, so it doesn't have to be hunted out in the future? | 15:46 |
| fsmithred | it's risky linking to other people's stuff - it might disappear or get moved and then we have to track it down and edit the web page. | 15:49 |
| fsmithred | but a link to that video in a forum post would be appropriate | 15:49 |
| fsmithred | done | 15:57 |
| FatPhil | thanks! | 16:02 |
| FatPhil | Hmmm, having a spot of bother ifup'ing my wlan0 | 16:02 |
| FatPhil | just copied a well-used stanza from another lappy into /etc/network/interfaces.d/ , and the name was recognised, but I'm getting no lease | 16:03 |
| FatPhil | probably the router, my phone's failing too, and that normally works | 16:26 |
| FatPhil | wait, that makes no sense, as it was working fine during the install itself. | 16:40 |
| FatPhil | there isn't a log of the install anywhere is there? | 16:40 |
| fsmithred | yeah, /var/log/installer or something like that | 16:49 |
| FatPhil | ah, the syslog there only tells me that it successfully got a lease | 16:58 |
| FatPhil | well, plus tons of other logs that don't tell me precisely how | 16:58 |
| FatPhil | OK, was a MAC filter on the router for my private network. But it's weird that my open public network didn't let me in. | 17:14 |
| FatPhil | false statement: you would not believe how much I hate my router :/ | 17:15 |
| FatPhil | one thing I don't understand about the install is how when I was asked to chose a hostname for the new machine, it offered as a default the previous name of the computer that had that spare HD in. That's kinda spooky. Where did that name come from? | 17:25 |
| FatPhil | that name is still hanging around like a ghost in my router's network graph (because simple lists are so 1960s) | 17:26 |
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